The Vaccine

King Mob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm certainly not obsessed with Fauci but I don't like liars, he's proven himself to be one admitting he pumped the figures in the hope to encourage people to get the vaccine, no respect for anything he says from here on in. He done the same with masks lied to save lives of one group at the expense of another if you believe the science really did change and he didn't want to cause a run on any old facecloth for health care workers.

Ok. So do you believe that herd immunity doesn't exist?
If so, why do you believe this.
If not, what level do you believe it will be achieved at?

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

Apparently the who changed the meaning of herd immunity this year

This is another lie.

Again, the conspiracy theorists on this thread have been casting doubt and questioning reality with no rhyme or reason all for the express purpose of just having a conspiracy, any conspiracy, exist.

This is far more Orwellian.

King Mob

King Mob wrote: »

This is another lie.

Again, the conspiracy theorists on this thread have been casting doubt and questioning reality with no rhyme or reason all for the express purpose of just having a conspiracy, any conspiracy, exist.

This is far more Orwellian.

No it's not..

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/herd-immunity-lockdowns-and-covid-19#:~:text=What%20is%20'herd%20immunity'%3F,threshold%20of%20vaccination%20is%20reached.

This is not what herd immunity means..

ohnonotgmail

Quiner wrote: »

I'm not worried about the vaccines. If I have to take one in order to travel then I will. I have no real problem with that because there's a precedent for it with yellow fever.

I was merely comparing people who believe the Great Reset to be a cover for implementing a dark agenda being expected to read books with people who believe the vaccines are safe not being expected to read the reports of the trial data.

Is it too much to expect people who base their conspiracy theory view on a book to have actually read the book? have you finished it yet?

ohnonotgmail

Deleted User wrote: »

No it's not..

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/herd-immunity-lockdowns-and-covid-19#:~:text=What%20is%20'herd%20immunity'%3F,threshold%20of%20vaccination%20is%20reached.

This is not what herd immunity means..

have you wrote to them and told them they are wrong? do you understand why they included that definition in addition to the original definition?

Quiner

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm certainly not obsessed with Fauci but I don't like liars, he's proven himself to be one admitting he pumped the figures in the hope to encourage people to get the vaccine, no respect for anything he says from here on in. He done the same with masks lied to save lives of one group at the expense of another if you believe the science really did change and he didn't want to cause a run on any old facecloth for health care workers.

Wait, you respected what he was saying until he moved the goalposts on herd immunity? I have zero respect for that man and ignore anything and everything he says. And have since around March / April when he first appeared on the scene to begin his journey to celebrity tv doctor.

Quiner

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Is it too much to expect people who base their conspiracy theory view on a book to have actually read the book? have you finished it yet?

No, but it's not just based on the book. But this isn't the thread for the Great Reset. Better to discuss this on the other thread.

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

No it's not..

But it is. You are lying. You have to lie constantly. Don't you find that weird.

Deleted User wrote: »

This is not what herd immunity means..

What definition do you believe it is?

Do you believe it exists?
What level of vaccination do you believe will grant herd immunity.

Quiner

Quiner wrote: »

But the people who are arguing that the Great Reset is a cover for a technocratic tyranny quote Klaus Schwab and the book the Great Reset. What's the difference? And there's no context that can make some of the things he has written or said okay.

I'm not concerned about the vaccines. I just used them as an example.

If you're gonna use the title of a chapter of a book, it's fair to expect you to have a grasp of the chapter at the very least. I've glanced through a fair proportion of his books and most chapters amount to summaries of different fields.

Eg his discussion of various technologies includes the positive and negative aspects. Implantable technology does get mentioned as likely to become a thing but he points to everything from privacy to security concerns as negatives. It's not particularly detailed overall. None of this strikes me as a nefarious plot and if anything seems to be a polymath considering the wider implications of a society that has been transforming rapidly for decades.

drunkmonkey

King Mob wrote: »

Ok. So do you believe that herd immunity doesn't exist?
If so, why do you believe this.
If not, what level do you believe it will be achieved at?

It does exist and I believe we were very close to it or already there when the crap hit the fan in the nursing homes. 1 in every 2 of the over 85's have a vitamin D deficiency in winter. 9 out of 10 deaths could have been prevented if we had of got those people to a healthy level.
Most of the population have had the BCG vaccine except for the under 5's and an unknown percentage of the over 75's, there's 30%+ underlying immunity straight away.

We have the knowledge, drugs, treatments at our disposal now to move on without herd immunity. We've become obssed with the vaccine though and I think it's a very dangerous place to be. I wonder how all those cocooners will handle the flu when it comes back with such low Vitamin D levels after being under self imposed house arrest for so long.

King Mob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It does exist and I believe we were very close to it or already there when the crap hit the fan in the nursing homes.

Ok. Source for this?

drunkmonkey wrote: »

1 in every 2 of the over 85's have a vitamin D deficiency in winter. 9 out of 10 deaths could have been prevented if we had of got those people to a healthy level.

And source for this also?

Honestly, both of these claims sound madey uppy.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Most of the population have had the BCG vaccine except for the under 5's and an unknown percentage of the over 75's, there's 30%+ underlying immunity straight away.

Why would a tuberculous vaccine offer immunity to coronavirus?

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We have the knowledge, drugs, treatments at our disposal now to move on without herd immunity.

Cool. What research is this based on? Did you conduct this research as a doctor or more as a virologist and what journal is it published in?

Trigger

King Mob wrote: »

But it is. You are lying. You have to lie constantly. Don't you find that weird.


What definition do you believe it is?

Do you believe it exists?
What level of vaccination do you believe will grant herd immunity.

Mod: Tone it back please KM, you can make your point without the need for the above

drunkmonkey

King Mob wrote: »

And source for this also?

Honestly, both of these claims sound madey uppy.

I'll come back with all the sources, I'll start you off with the Vitamin D stats from the Trinity study.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://tilda.tcd.ie/publications/reports/pdf/Report_Covid19VitaminD.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjmvfng__DtAhU2ShUIHedODecQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2kRf9fZKqfCQiBks1kwZo7

King Mob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'll come back with all the sources, I'll start you off with the Vitamin D stats from the Trinity study.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://tilda.tcd.ie/publications/reports/pdf/Report_Covid19VitaminD.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjmvfng__DtAhU2ShUIHedODecQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2kRf9fZKqfCQiBks1kwZo7

This study does not support the claim:

9 out of 10 deaths could have been prevented if we had of got those people to a healthy level.

Nor does it say anything close to this.

drunkmonkey

King Mob wrote: »

This study does not support the claim:

Nor does it say anything close to this.

Oh right I thought you were referring to the stat 1 in 2 over 85's are vitamin d deficient.

It's the 9 out of 10 deaths could have been prevented well there's your source..

https://www.fox26houston.com/news/studies-suggest-4-vitamins-to-prevent-severe-cases-of-covid-19

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'll come back with all the sources, I'll start you off with the Vitamin D stats from the Trinity study.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://tilda.tcd.ie/publications/reports/pdf/Report_Covid19VitaminD.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjmvfng__DtAhU2ShUIHedODecQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2kRf9fZKqfCQiBks1kwZo7

By your logic, Sweden should have herd immunity, they don't...

King Mob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Oh right I thought you were referring to the stat 1 in 2 over 85's are vitamin d deficient.

It's the 9 out of 10 deaths could have been prevented well there's your source..

https://www.fox26houston.com/news/studies-suggest-4-vitamins-to-prevent-severe-cases-of-covid-19

But that claim is not supported by that Fox News article either. No where in the article does it make that claim and the singular scientific study it references does not claim it either.

Could you post and quote the study that directly states "9 out of 10 deaths could have been prevented"?

drunkmonkey

King Mob wrote: »

Why would a tuberculous vaccine offer immunity to coronavirus?

That I can't answer but it certainly helps, it's only in phase 1 trials are the moment though, I find that quite odd seen as the brand new vaccines have approval first. Plenty of sources to back up BCG. https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/study-tb-vaccine-linked-to-lower-risk-of-contracting-covid-19/

drunkmonkey

King Mob wrote: »

Could you post and quote the study that directly states "9 out of 10 deaths could have been prevented"?

Vitamin D Insufficiency May Account for Almost Nine of Ten COVID-19 Deaths: Time to Act. Comment on: “Vitamin D Deficiency and Outcome of COVID-19 Patients”. Nutrients 2020, 12, 2757
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/12/12/3642/htm

King Mob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That I can't answer but it certainly helps, it's only in phase 1 trials are the moment though, I find that quite odd seen as the brand new vaccines have approval first

Why is it odd?

King Mob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Vitamin D Insufficiency May Account for Almost Nine of Ten COVID-19 Deaths: Time to Act. Comment on: “Vitamin D Deficiency and Outcome of COVID-19 Patients”. Nutrients 2020, 12, 2757
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/12/12/3642/htm

Ok. And is this the only one you have or are there others?

drunkmonkey

King Mob wrote: »

Cool. What research is this based on? Did you conduct this research as a doctor or more as a virologist and what journal is it published in?

Cool out, https://www.healio.com/news/primary-care/20201208/this-was-a-gift-to-us-ivermectin-effective-for-covid19-prophylaxis-treatment

wiggle16

Sorry.... are you trying to blame the last 12 months and the lion's share of the 1.7 million covid deaths worldwide on a lack of vitamin D??

Quiner

The Mark of the Beast was mentioned the other day. Ex presidential candidate, Kanye West, who finished third in the 2020 Presidential Election, claimed back in August that the coronavirus vaccines were the Mark of the Beast: https://www.msn.com/en-sg/entertainment/celebrity/kanye-west-coronavirus-vaccines-are-the-mark-of-the-beast/ar-BB16uTEp

"... when they say the way we're going to fix covid is with a vaccine, I'm extremely cautious. That's the mark of the beast."

drunkmonkey

King Mob wrote: »

Why is it odd?

We went hell for leather at new vaccines as opposed to looking at what we already had. How did pfizer make it to stage 3 and BCG is still at stage 1 even though a lot more people especially in health care have had the BCG vaccine since the start of the pandemic than were involved in these new vaccine trials.

King Mob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We went hell for leather at new vaccines as opposed to looking at what we already had. How did pfizer make it to stage 3 and BCG is still at stage 1 even though a lot more people especially in health care have has the BCG vaccine since the start of the pandemic than were involved in these new vaccine trials.

Again, you tell us.
What do you believe is the answer?

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Cool out, https://www.healio.com/news/primary-care/20201208/this-was-a-gift-to-us-ivermectin-effective-for-covid19-prophylaxis-treatment

Again, this article does not support the claim you says it supports. No where in there does it say that vaccines and herd immunity aren't needed.
A quick search of that site shows that they are quite in favour of vaccinations.

drunkmonkey

wiggle16 wrote: »

Sorry.... are you trying to blame the last 12 months and the lion's share of the 1.7 million covid deaths worldwide on a lack of vitamin D??

That's what the research is saying, healthy vitamin D levels and this is of little or no threat to you.
We were taking about mandating it back in October, easier shut the pubs that get people to protect themselves though..
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/vitamin-d-deficit-link-to-covid-19-severity-considerable-1.4371795

drunkmonkey

King Mob wrote: »

Again, this article does not support the claim you says it supports. No where in there does it say that vaccines and herd immunity aren't needed.
A quick search of that site shows that they are quite in favour of vaccinations.

What's I'm saying is put everything i've shown you together and we don't have the severe problem we're lead to believe.

Quiner

Quiner wrote: »

The Mark of the Beast was mentioned the other day. Ex presidential candidate, Kanye West, who finished third in the 2020 Presidential Election, claimed back in August that the coronavirus vaccines were the Mark of the Beast: https://www.msn.com/en-sg/entertainment/celebrity/kanye-west-coronavirus-vaccines-are-the-mark-of-the-beast/ar-BB16uTEp

"... when they say the way we're going to fix covid is with a vaccine, I'm extremely cautious. That's the mark of the beast."

He came fifth with 60k votes(pretty ****e), the person who came third got 1.5 million.... Plus there's the fact he's mentally unwell so pointing to his weird presidential run to add credibility to him is a tad silly.

King Mob

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What's I'm saying is put everything i've shown you together and we don't have the severe problem we're lead to believe.

But none of the links you've been posting seem to actually agree with your claims about them.

So you're not so much "putting them together" as overstating them and reaching a wild conclusion not supported by any of them.

What do you mean by "lead to believe" exactly?

Also, you seem to have missed my other questions there.
Why do you believe that more focus has been put on direct covid vaccines over a vaccine for a unrelated disease that might offer some slight immunity?