Work life balance in the USA

Wibbs

NSAman wrote: »

Bankruptcy is not the same stigma here as in Ireland.

Very true N. Though - and this is just a personal observation so.. - the stigma here has dropped a lot compared to say twenty years ago, though not like in the US.

Spending habits here, still to this day amaze me. I’m a saver, always have been. Friends are not, fantastic lifestyles and all the latest cars, boats, holidays, homes etc. When this pandemic started, many were in trouble with the downturn in business. Shopping is king ( I hate shopping) the same as Ireland. I invest some savings in property for my retirement and also as a dig out to staff and family.

The spend-free lifestyle of many in the States, is very evident, even people who have little. Fine in the good times, not so good in the bad times.

Though you could argue that confidence that things will always be better is what drives their market(and the culture) and has for a long time and mostly positively if we're going by consumerist model. It can drive it into bust, but drive it out of it too. Though much less so now, since like many/most places in the West they outsourced their manufacturing. Stupidly in my humble. Buying stuff is good, making stuff is better. I mean we're typing away on stuff that's "American" to some degree, but almost none of it is made there. Great for those Americans who are getting the profits from that outsourced manufacturing, but the worker class of America who used to make the stuff itself, not nearly so good. The only things I can think of I own that were actually made in America consist of a few old books, a couple of vintage watches and a fishing reel I bought 20 odd years ago. You can still buy the same model of reel today, but it's made in China(and sh1te quality).

Manic Moran wrote: »

It has been over a year (378 days) since the last school shooting

The rise of school shootings is crazy. The access to guns seems to have little enough to do with it as there were pretty much zero examples of it before the 70's, when firearms were significantly easier to get a hold of. Something has shifted in the youth of American society. The incidence of mental illness, self harm and suicide(gone up 30% since 2000 alone) in that demographic has leaped over the last 30 years and shows no signs of levelling out, well above what one might expect of better diagnostics. There has been a similar climb in other parts of the West, but nothing to the degree of American youth.

salonfire

Manic Moran wrote: »

It has been over a year (378 days) since the last school shooting

You say as if it's a good thing! Incredible! Life has enough risks as it without adding the risk of running the gauntlet in a hail of gunfire to it.

In other words there has been school shootings within the last two years.

Andrewf20

Great professional salaries over there but they would want to be with the college fees in some of the bigger cities:

Portland university - $62,000 per year incl campus accommodation! Thats $248,000 for 4 years + interest if taking out a loan.

Seattle uni is similar at $47,565 per year without accommodation.

San Fran uni - $68,472 per year incl housing & "dining".

Wibbs

True, but that's a huge advantage for Irish graduates; they won't be spending the next 15 or 20 years paying off student loans so will have a lot more take home pay. They also have the singular advantage that if things go pear shaped for them in the US, they can come back to Ireland.

Larbre34

My brother and sister in law are well paid professionals in IT and Finance, living in a mid-size city in Florida, couple of miles from the beaches, nice Villa style house with a pool and few cars, ATVs, boat etc. They have 3 kids in private education, corporate seats at the baseball, the whole American dream.

However, as far as I'm concerned, they can keep it. Their outward quality of life belies highly stressful and precarious work contracts, the cost of private healthcare and the private schooling (mainly because it reduces the risk of a mass shooting) and the total absence of time for themselves has them effectively living in parallel with their own lives, if you see what I mean.

The greater prioritisation, in Europe, of work life balance and various work, health and education safety nets is what jealous Americans call "socialism", and those that hear them and know no better think we are living in some sort of communist hell. The poor bastards have no idea how poor their quality of life really is.

Andrewf20

I lived in the USA twice and did a good of travel around there and my feeling is that Ireland is a better place to live by a good margin despite our own problems.

You have to wonder how much different life would be if taxes weren't getting eaten up in military spending so much, which is estimated to reach close to 1000 billion dollars (934 billion) next year. That works out at nearly $3000 per person per year.

Strumms

arctictree wrote: »

What happens in the US if you can't or just won't pay the bill?

Larbre34 wrote: »

My brother and sister in law are well paid professionals in IT and Finance, living in a mid-size city in Florida, couple of miles from the beaches, nice Villa style house with a pool and few cars, ATVs, boat etc. They have 3 kids in private education, corporate seats at the baseball, the whole American dream.

However, as far as I'm concerned, they can keep it. Their outward quality of life belies highly stressful and precarious work contracts, the cost of private healthcare and the private schooling (mainly because it reduces the risk of a mass shooting) and the total absence of time for themselves has them effectively living in parallel with their own lives, if you see what I mean.

The greater prioritisation, in Europe, of work life balance and various work, health and education safety nets is what jealous Americans call "socialism", and those that hear them and know no better think we are living in some sort of communist hell. The poor bastards have no idea how poor their quality of life really is.

Yes, it’s success by spreadsheets... quality assets, house, car, holiday home, but fućk all time to enjoy out at 7am, home at 7 pm and fûck all vacation time too.

Much better work life balance here and pay but ever so slowly that’s being eradicated from what I can see. We are going the way of the US, maybe because of their growing influence... before they arrived they had to step up their game to attract the best... but in the ever growing race to the bottom....it’s different now.

smellyoldboot

I work remotely but directly for US HQ. It looks at least from afar, the hours can be pretty hardcore. The emails/messages will start at about 6am on their clock and often still come through after 7pm EST and on weekends. I will send quick replies in the evening from the phone but its clear from the content of the mails (drawings, spreadsheets etc attached and full cc list) this is someone still very much at a workstation at that time of the evening where I might be in Aldi at 8pm local time here tapping out a one liner response. No wonder they're all in therapy tbh.

chrissb8

Strumms wrote: »

Yes, it’s success by spreadsheets... quality assets, house, car, holiday home, but fućk all time to enjoy out at 7am, home at 7 pm and fûck all vacation time too.

Much better work life balance here and pay but ever so slowly that’s being eradicated from what I can see. We are going the way of the US, maybe because of their growing influence... before they arrived they had to step up their game to attract the best... but in the ever growing race to the bottom....it’s different now.

With the unions and workers rights being protected up to the nth degree here I can't see how we could end up anything like America. In fact, if anything there's been rumblings of a 4 day week in our lifetime becoming a possibility.

Strumms

chrissb8 wrote: »

With the unions and workers rights being protected up to the nth degree here I can't see how we could end up anything like America. In fact, if anything there's been rumblings of a 4 day week in our lifetime becoming a possibility.

Workers rights should be protected though. It’s the LAW. We ARE headed closer to the Americans model I fear... probably as a result of the number of American businesses here, relying on us, and our economy on them... they now have bargaining power, look around, they are using it.

If a person drives through a red light and hits you... they’ve broken the law and should and must face the consequences... or do you say... “ well they wanted to burn less petrol by keeping going, late for the match...suck it up “ ???

If an employer schedules you in for a shift that finishes at 18.00 but schedules to start your next shift at 02.00 the following morning they are in breach of the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997... it’s not just simply them acting the cûnt although they are...you need an 11 hour gap between shift beginning and ending, legally.

However companies are becoming much much more adept at squirting around the law. ‘Encouraging’ people to volunteer, by pressure, hitting them in performance reviews and so on when they are not bending over... Endangering health and home life.

Not illegal per say but many companies here dont recognize or cooperate with the unions now, ok many multinationals especially US companies are certainly of that mindset... but if it’s illegal for them to have that lack of recognition...that’s a good thing...why isn’t it ?

In my previous outfit, people were ‘encouraged’ to break all sorts of employment law... the working time act being one in particular... they’d start off asking... “would you mind...” then.. “sorry I need you to”.... when people pushed back... performance reviews plummeted, bonuses were a thing of the past, pay was frozen it was generally unpleasant work...

Unfortunately the law really only enables small protection for an employee... and the employee usually has to jump through hoops...themselves to ensure it, often with consequences ....

Law needs to be a DETERRENT.....IF a company go and roster in David Smith 13.00-21.00 on Monday, then on Tuesday 05.00-13.00... that’s a breach in employment law.... but what is the deterrent ? How many times has it ever been reported in the media that X company have been fined 50,000 euros ? Never that I can recall. The operations manager who designed the shift patterns, given a probation order...? Or his superiors the same for demanding he do just that ?

Organization of working time act, like road traffic act like every law in this country, that relates to employment and beyond, needs to be enforced

FGR

Outside of winning a green card in the lottery (no joy 10 years straight) or marrying a native is there any way of realistically getting a green card or is it still practically impossible?

jimmycrackcorm

Palmy wrote: »

I have to agree with you on spending habits. I work with a lot of people who own a house and drop $50-$60k on a brand new pickup truck without blinking an eyelid, all while earning $40k a year. It blows my mind here how they do not like to buy a second hand vehicle it has to be new. Meanwhile I pick up a three year old car that retails for $60k and pick it up for under $20k.

Ten years ago we went on a family holiday to Disneyland in Florida. We stayed in central Orlando which as anyone knows is amazing.

One weekend we took a drive out to the countryside. That really opened my eyes.. Because i saw these lovely but American trucks parked outside houses that I soak to my wife, we wouldn't even provide for a pet dog.

JustAThought

FGR wrote: »

Outside of winning a green card in the lottery (no joy 10 years straight) or marrying a native is there any way of realistically getting a green card or is it still practically impossible?

Work 3 yeara for a multinational here & then get a transfer to the US - muddle on from there.

JimmyVik

I rememeber working in the Dublin office of an American company when 911 happened.
All American companies were given a day off in mourning the victims.
Offices abroad, like ours though, no day off.
Then on that day, not expecting anybody to be in the American office I was surprised that all of them came in to the American office that day.
I asked one of them why they came in and they said that if you didnt turn up for work that day it would be noted. When they tell you you can have a day off over there you have to refuse it, reason being that you should be too busy to take the day off and use it to catch up or get ahead.

Mimon

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Ten years ago we went on a family holiday to Disneyland in Florida. We stayed in central Orlando which as anyone knows is amazing.

One weekend we took a drive out to the countryside. That really opened my eyes.. Because i saw these lovely but American trucks parked outside houses that I soak to my wife, we wouldn't even provide for a pet dog.

Don't get what you are trying to say here??

Wibbs

Mimon wrote: »

Don't get what you are trying to say here??

I could be wrong M but I think they're saying they saw big expensive trucks parked outside crappy houses?

Stateofyou

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Everytime I go back I feel this overwhelming weight of the state bearing down on everyone. Petty rules, people in uniform everywhere on their own power trips just itching to give someone a hard time, sit under a tree reading a book in a park or walk around taking photographs and you can almost be sure that someone will call the cops on you because this is not "normal behaviour" and you look "suspicious" and of course the cop will demand ID, obscene displays of military prowess and plastic patriotism when I just want to watch a few guys hit a ball with a stick and run around a field, stupid laws like having to produce age verification to enter a bar and get a beer even though you look like Gandalf, seething racism, the all-too-quick way that they say "fuck him" when someone is unlucky, the lack of awareness of anything going on in the world outside their own borders felt stifling

You must be a right weirdo to have that kind of experience there that colours your view that negatively. I lived there years, have many friends and family living there and not any one of us would say anything close to what you've just described. You frequently make seething posts about the US, it's very strange. Some of it is so bizarre that I question whether you actually lived there at all. Especially the bit where you said you've been to 20 states and they all looked the same. There's no way you lived there, I'm calling it out.

Elite Genetics

We're all living in Amerika, Amerika, ist wunderbar, We're all living in Amerika, Amerika, AmerikaWe're all living in Amerika
Amerika, ist wunderbar We're all living in Amerika Amerika, Amerika

Stateofyou

salonfire wrote: »

Also comes down to your luck. Fall on hard times where you lose your Health Insurance, would you 'enjoy' the US then? If you had an accident and they took you to a out-of-network hospital, would you enjoy the bill?

They take you to an in-network hospital, but the doctor is out-of-network, would you enjoy that bill?

They take you to an in-network hospital, use an in-network doctor but an out-of-network lab, would you enjoy that bill?

Would you enjoy running for cover as a shooter opens up in a mall or school? Or enjoy living with that risk every day?

Dramatic much? Most people there do not feel like they risk their lives every day whilst going to school or shopping in malls. For most people, most of the time, life is completely safe and ordinary.

Manic Moran

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Ten years ago we went on a family holiday to Disneyland in Florida. We stayed in central Orlando which as anyone knows is amazing.

One weekend we took a drive out to the countryside. That really opened my eyes.. Because i saw these lovely but American trucks parked outside houses that I soak to my wife, we wouldn't even provide for a pet dog.

Isn’t that kind of the argument of this discussion, though? Lots of folks looking at America saying “I wouldn’t have that, I prefer this in (Ireland/Europe/Australia)”

If life is about enjoying, then obviously these folks who can afford to buy a nice new big truck have chosen to do so instead of buying a bigger house with a second-hand Honda. If that isn’t your cup of tea you can happily buy a small Chevy and get a house which, externally, is more suited to your tastes.

The point is that they obviously have some money to spend, and they seem to be spending it on what makes them happy. How is that a bad thing?

NSAman

Andrewf20 wrote: »

I lived in the USA twice and did a good of travel around there and my feeling is that Ireland is a better place to live by a good margin despite our own problems.

You have to wonder how much different life would be if taxes weren't getting eaten up in military spending so much, which is estimated to reach close to 1000 billion dollars (934 billion) next year. That works out at nearly $3000 per person per year.

Absolutely agree with you Andrew.

There are a few things that irritate me living here, Military and Police spending is one of them.

However, as regards making a living. America is absolutely streets ahead of Ireland when it comes to actually being able to make an idea work.

Yes, you work hard. The hours are long. The job security is terrible. BUT!!!! (always a but!!) When the idea takes off, you are not screwed by Tax. You can make a living for you and yours and all those people who helped you along the way. Not every employer is an asshole. (Admittedly many are)

Without good staff, you will not maintain your business. I am in the lucky position that since I started my journey here, I have amassed a rag-tag group of people who are amazing. They are dedicated. They are hard working. Most of all I consider them ALL my friends. I can trust them 100% to have my best interests at heart. On the flip side, they can count on me to have THEIR best interests at heart. 401K contributions, 100% best health care plans, time off, vacations time higher than all around us. They know if they have a personal issue, all it takes is a phone call to sort it. This can involve car loans, a place to live, bills paid.

Corporate America is a **** place to work. I personally hate it, despite corporate America being much of our client base. The amount of people who visit our tiny offices who come away with the sense that people enjoy their jobs is evident in the number of applications we get for employment.

Our offices are fun to work in. The staff have fun. PC culture is not adhered to. Yet everyone gets on. Arguments are solved face to face and with the old fashioned handshake and a meal. If anyone has a problem, my door is always open, be it personal or work related.

It is not the typical American office by a long shot. Dogs are welcome and we have 3 that come in on a daily basis.

My work and the business that creates my ability to steer this enterprise is paramount, we all know that. If I succeed, everyone succeeds.

So you see. Work/Life balance CAN be achieved. I know we are different here.

Please do not tar every enterprise as the same.

America is massive.

It has massive problems.

It has the best of everything in the world (including the best A**holes in the world).

The other thing about the States, despite all the corruption politically. You CAN build a business, you can make a living that does NOT involve the old boys club, the political crap and the tax system favours those who will take chances.

While I love Ireland, I simply could not do what I do here in Ireland. That is the truth!

FGR

NSAman wrote: »

There are a few things that irritate me living here, Military and Police spending is one of them.

Agreed that military spending is outrageous - the only, sole, i-dont-think-it's-even-justifiable upside is that it provides jobs and discipline to those who may need it. The only reason I don't think it's justifiable is those jobs could be jobs in other branches of the state. Infrastructure being a big one - and they could still apply all the benefits of healthcare and contributions towards education. And no risk of being sent to the middle east.

You're right about business opportunities - the risk is big no matter where you go but at least in the US there's understanding that sometimes to succeed you've got to fail - whereas if you go bankrupt here good luck securing credit in the future.

Also - so now that I've heard the NSA is an awesome place to work - can I join? :pac:

NSAman

FGR wrote: »

Also - so now that I've heard the NSA is an awesome place to work - can I join? :pac:

Ask Joe when he gets in..;)

I have lived and worked in many countries. For all it's problems, for those with ideas, drive and a passion for what they do, America is by far the easiest to get ahead in.

Note of caution: Do your homework if you are seriously thinking of coming here. Working for others is not the way to get ahead. LLC's, self employment have drawbacks but can have many advantages too.

Manic Moran

NSAman wrote: »

Note of caution: Do your homework if you are seriously thinking of coming here. Working for others is not the way to get ahead. LLC's, self employment have drawbacks but can have many advantages too.

I’m doing both right now. My “personal self-started side gig” is at the point that it’s pulling in more dollars than my full time “work for a company” job did ten years ago, but I still have my day job which provides good health, 401k, vacation time, etc so those are things I need not worry about, even as my personal business makes up a greater and greater proportion of my income.

Stovepipe

MM, You'd better tell them what a 401K is...as well as tell them what you used to do for a living in the "work for a company" job.
regards
Stovepipe

Manic Moran

Stovepipe wrote: »

MM, You'd better tell them what a 401K is...as well as tell them what you used to do for a living in the "work for a company" job.
regards
Stovepipe

A 401k is a tax deferred savings plan, a good company will match the savings you put in. My “work for a company” job was as an IT contractor. My employer was a company which placed me on long term assignment at Oakland Airport.

Dyr

Andrewf20 wrote: »

You have to wonder how much different life would be if taxes weren't getting eaten up in military spending so much, which is estimated to reach close to 1000 billion dollars (934 billion) next year. That works out at nearly $3000 per person per year.

Our ****ty public healthcare works out at something like 6 grand per person and you don't hear a word of it from certain quarters :rolleyes:

You wonder how life would be if our government just gave us all 6 grand a year to spend on private health care instead of pissing it all down a well

At least the Yanks are getting bang for their buck, literally

Stovepipe

The problem with private health care is that it can exclude whatever it likes, when it likes and you have to keep finding more and more money to pay for it. It always goes up, never down and a significant amount of our population can't afford enough decent food, not to mind decent housing, let alone paying for private health care. It's another tax.

Wibbs

+1 for all the faults of the Irish system and there are many, the one thing we most certainly don't want to import here is American style healthcare. It is by far and away the most expensive on the planet because of vested interests like insurance companies and the medical industry itself. Never mind that for all it's much vaunted superiority America's life expectancy is in the mid 30's out of the world rankings whereas Ireland is in the mid teens.

JustAThought

Wibbs wrote: »

+1 for all the faults of the Irish system and there are many, the one thing we most certainly don't want to import here is American style healthcare. It is by far and away the most expensive on the planet because of vested interests like insurance companies and the medical industry itself. Never mind that for all it's much vaunted superiority America's life expectancy is in the mid 30's out of the world rankings whereas Ireland is in the mid teens.

i wonder how much of that is due to abysmal poverty, drugs and guncrime thou? As for mid teens versus thirties rakings the life expectancy is still somewhere in the mid 80’s .. not sure Inwant to live til I’m that old and decrepit - at least not in the Irish ‘healthcare’ system where you can work and pay 50% tax your entire life and still be left to die in a public corridor without treatment for 14 or 24 hours while junkies and drunk itinerants are prioritised and treated before you because of their ‘human rights’ status.

A family member of mine was in an accident in the US & had a serious enough head and facial injury - he had an option of a range of hospitals and plastic surgeons to treat him - try getting an appointment for a plastic surgeon or neurosurgeon in Ireland on the VHI let alone, God forbid, on a medical card.

It would be interesting to see the stastics on private maternity care in the US & how many mothers and babies are severly damaged or left brain damaged from birth over there - not as many as in Ireland where the mutilations arn’t even a stastitic and the national maternity hospital refuses to accept liability and fights every case to the steps of the high court - on the taxpayers dollar of course - to protect their often totally overwhelmed, undersupervised, exhausted often disinterested staff .

Look at the 2 major HSE recent scandals - our national hospital system - cervical smears misread, their results reported as incorrect, this ignored by the patients own (HSE employed) consultants, left to die, and the ones that did find out left to fight the HSE system and despite government (worthless) ‘ promises’ again made sue the government and HSE and fight through their dying breaths for compensation for the medical failures AND COVER UPS by the Irish medical system and their employees.

I could go on.

I listen to Dr. Death podcasts (series 1 & 2) and horrifying as their focus on the 2 doctors and their patients in the US is, in many many ways out own system is a lot worse - as are particularly the protections in place here for sub par, dysfunctional, incompetent, disinterested and incompletely trained (& often imported) HSE doctors.

At least the fear of litigation in the US and actually going to prison or losing their license to practice keeps them controlled. Here - the HSE - remember the radiology scandals - Norweigan consultant not reference checked, list of red flags behind him across europe - no consequences, Nigerian doctor working for the HSE who tore out and tossed a womans kidney into a medical waste sluice bucket because he disn’t have basic surgical training - bought his qualification/exams, not competent to practice, not checked or supervised, multiple red flags, allowed leave the country, no consequences - apart from the patients lives destroyed. The list goes on and on - and they are only the ones we happen to hear about through rare media reporting or national scandals - many of which involve thousands of women and thousands of lives destroyed.

There isn’t that level of casual clinical corruption, incompetence and a ovoidance orchestration in the US medical system.

When is the last time a doctor, administrator or nurse was arrested and tried for 2nd degree murder here, or derieiction of duty, or elder abuse or torture or manslaughter - as in the care home scandals that arn’t even a blip on the radar of the HIQUA - it wouodn’t happen in the US and for good reason. There are consequences for corruption and medical malpractice there. It might cost a lot but at least it win’t kill you. And if something goes wrong you are covered. Unlike here.

And you are paid and not taxed into a coffin. That would be nice for a change too.