Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VII *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Royale with Cheese

Lol, NPHET don't have any power. The government went against their advice once and got absolutely pillorised for it in the media and by many of the public. Two weeks later they bowed to NPHET's wishes even though in hindsight it looks like they might have been right in the first place.

If the government go against NPHET you get the above, if they go with NPHET and it turns out to be wrong call then that's not NPHET'S fault, they're just an advisory body. It's the government's own fault but NPHET absolutely have power here and they know it too.

froog

froog wrote: »

so you think the restrictions are too harsh? this is what i'm talking about, if you think staying mostly at home and washing your hands is too hard to deal with, you will not do well in a worse emergency like those i mentioned. in some of those emergencies i mentioned, some pubs would not be open, because they'd actually be destroyed.

But if there was actual emergency, people wouldn’t mind staying at home. Restrictions should be proportionate to the threat.

Covid is not an emergency. Most People don’t feel threatened in any way. And stats would confirm they have no reason to feel threatened.

Staying home is not hard if there is a reason to do it. But there isn’t a reason.

We can’t stop 80+ year olds from catching an illness that may kill them. We can destroy our own lives in the process though, which our six figure salary leaders are happy to do.

Johnboy1951

RobitTV wrote: »

New video: Peter Hitchens urges people to 'stop swallowing this garbage' on Covid restrictions

You want to try that link again please?
Does not work here.

EDIT:

Found it!

https://www.youtube.com/embed/bh3u0W1ajks

froog

Deleted User wrote: »

But if there was actual emergency, people wouldn’t mind staying at home. Restrictions should be proportionate to the threat.

Covid is not an emergency. Most People don’t feel threatened in any way. And stats would confirm they have no reason to feel threatened.

Staying home is not hard if there is a reason to do it. But there isn’t a reason.

We can’t stop 80+ year olds from catching an illness that may kill them. We can destroy our own lives in the process though, which our six figure salary leaders are happy to do.

actually yes we can.

dalyboy

froog wrote: »

actually yes we can.

It’s up to 80+ to limit their movements and contacts themselves.

Surely they’re old enough to make their own decisions to protect themselves.

Otherwise if they’re in hospital or care homes that’s the governments/NPHET’s job to protect them again NOT the public’s.

average_runner

Deleted User wrote: »

But if there was actual emergency, people wouldn’t mind staying at home. Restrictions should be proportionate to the threat.

Covid is not an emergency. Most People don’t feel threatened in any way. And stats would confirm they have no reason to feel threatened.

Staying home is not hard if there is a reason to do it. But there isn’t a reason.

We can’t stop 80+ year olds from catching an illness that may kill them. We can destroy our own lives in the process though, which our six figure salary leaders are happy to do.

Agree with alot of what you said. But if we open up fully and this virus causes our hospitals to be over run in such a way we cancel all other treatments, is that a reason to stay at home?

average_runner

dalyboy wrote: »

It’s up to 80+ to limit their movements and contacts themselves.

Surely they’re old enough to make their own decisions to protect themselves.

Otherwise if they’re in hospital or care homes that’s the governments/NPHET’s job to protect them again NOT the public’s.

But how do nursing homes prevent someone for visiting and have the virus but didnt disclose it?


This is happening alot in day to day activities at the moment

dalyboy

average_runner wrote: »

But how do nursing homes prevent someone for visiting and have the virus but didnt disclose it?


This is happening alot in day to day activities at the moment

Visitors are ONLY allowed one designated visitor per patient to nursing homes atm. The patient and visitor is behind a sheet of glass.
Visitors are not giving the virus to patients.

The failings are government/NPHET not instigating testing for nursing home staff. (Presently a laughable every 2 week regimen)

Penfailed

fin12 wrote: »

Well I don’t see peta shutting down places that serve meat and sell it and using the virus as the excuse to do it.

PETA aren't advising the government.

AssetBacked2

froog wrote: »

actually yes we can.

Well if we can, it does not involve shutting down society and the economy. It involves making sure health care workers operate in a bubble and implement proper practices as covid is spreading in nursing homes and hospitals despite society being in lockdown.

The restrictions on all of society make absolutely no sense. They have very little impact on the harm covid can cause to the tiny section of society that is actually vulnerable to it. I have seen zero evidence against this statement that restrictions on all of society have prevented covid harming those that are vulnerable to it.

Gervais08

dalyboy wrote: »

Visitors are ONLY allowed one designated visitor per patient to nursing homes atm. The patient and visitor is behind a sheet of glass.
Visitors are not giving the virus to patients.

The failings are government/NPHET not instigating testing for nursing home staff. (Presently a laughable every 2 week regimen)

1000 percent this - my Dad’s place didn’t even allow me in the door; they had a minibus outside in the car park and we were opposite sides of it.

Yet the virus got in - and that was fine to not testing staff.

average_runner

dalyboy wrote: »

Visitors are ONLY allowed one designated visitor per patient to nursing homes atm. The patient and visitor is behind a sheet of glass.
Visitors are not giving the virus to patients.

The failings are government/NPHET not instigating testing for nursing home staff. (Presently a laughable every 2 week regimen)

I know how it works right now, I go down pretty often and its not one visitor per person, its one visitor per person at a time through the window,


Home is tested every week as its private.


So you want to keep the homes in total lockdown but you are ok for staff to be in shops where the virus is rampant ? There is no test out there to give a good enough result within 30 mins for an employee going to work in the home?


Same with Hospitals, someone goes to A&E not knowing they have the virus and its too late. They are tested if admitted but takes a few hours for results.

average_runner

Gervais08 wrote: »

1000 percent this - my Dad’s place didn’t even allow me in the door; they had a minibus outside in the car park and we were opposite sides of it.

Yet the virus got in - and that was fine to not testing staff.

Even if you test the staff once a week it will still get in as takes a day for results

AssetBacked2

average_runner wrote: »

I know how it works right now, I go down pretty often and its not one visitor per person, its one visitor per person at a time through the window,


Home is tested every week as its private.


So you want to keep the homes in total lockdown but you are ok for staff to be in shops where the virus is rampant ? There is no test out there to give a good enough result within 30 mins for an employee going to work in the home?


Same with Hospitals, someone goes to A&E not knowing they have the virus and its too late. They are tested if admitted but takes a few hours for results.

Get them deliveroo and shopping home delivery.

average_runner

AssetBacked2 wrote: »

Get them deliveroo and shopping home delivery.

So now you want to lockdown the home, the staff of the home and all the family members of that family? Also that means the doctors that visit once to three times a week, so put them in lockdown and their families?
And assume the same for medical staff in hospitals?

AssetBacked2

average_runner wrote: »

So now you want to lockdown the home, the staff of the home and all the family members of that family?
And assume the same for medical staff in hospitals?

Why not? All of society has been lockdowned for 8 months for them. It is a reasonable request that they pull some more weight the last few months while the vaccine is rolled out.

average_runner

AssetBacked2 wrote: »

Why not? All of society has been lockdowned for 8 months for them. It is a reasonable request that they pull some more weight the last few months while the vaccine is rolled out.

Fair enough, now you suddenly run a risk of lack of doctors available to the general public. Less ambulances available also as they attend nursing homes alot.





Now how do you protect the hospitals? Alot more people in and out of there?

Don't forget the home help also. How you manage that?

hmmm

AssetBacked2 wrote: »

Why not? All of society has been lockdowned for 8 months for them. It is a reasonable request that they pull some more weight the last few months while the vaccine is rolled out.

And in return what - you get to visit a pub a month earlier?

Stormyteacup

average_runner wrote: »

So now you want to lockdown the home, the staff of the home and all the family members of that family? Also that means the doctors that visit once to three times a week, so put them in lockdown and their families?
And assume the same for medical staff in hospitals?

But it’s okay to open a few things for a couple of weeks over Christmas so same staff in homes and hospitals can visit ‘shops where Covid is rampant‘ and bring back to care homes and hospitals?

stargazer 68

AssetBacked2 wrote: »

Why not? All of society has been lockdowned for 8 months for them. It is a reasonable request that they pull some more weight the last few months while the vaccine is rolled out.

Medical Staff need to pull some more weight!!!!!! Heard it all now :eek:

BeefeaterHat

hmmm wrote: »

And in return what - you get to visit a pub a month earlier?

Bringing up pubs in response to calls for relaxing restrictions is a lazy retort.

average_runner

Stormyteacup wrote: »

But it’s okay to open a few things for a couple of weeks over Christmas so same staff in homes and hospitals can visit ‘shops where Covid is rampant‘ and bring back to care homes and hospitals?

A level 3 for 2 weeks could be ok. Right now the virus isn't rampant. We haven't hit the rampant phase in the second wave because of the limitations

average_runner

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

Bringing up pubs in response to calls for relaxing restrictions is a lazy retort.

But its all people here talk about really.

hmmm

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

Bringing up pubs in response to calls for relaxing restrictions is a lazy retort.

Well then, after we ask the hospital staff and their families along with nursing home staff and their families to be locked away from society for months on end, what does it get you? All I can see here is talk about pubs.

It's an incredibly selfish suggestion, and absolutely shameless to be thinking it is even a runner.

BeefeaterHat

hmmm wrote: »

Well then, after we ask the hospital staff and their families along with nursing home staff and their families to be locked away from society for months on end, what does it get you? All I can see here is talk about pubs.

It's an incredibly selfish suggestion, and absolutely shameless to be thinking it is even a runner.

There's been plenty of discussion outside of pubs in regards to the economy, the disaster in our hospitals and care homes where 210 of around 350 caught it I hospital rather than being hospitalised with it. The authorities have been utterly shambolic from start to finish, Holohan wants to cover his arse nothing more. If pubs, restaurants and shops can't do business in their most profitable time of year it's as good as killing them yet Sam McConkey wants level 6 restrictions. Mad the country's gone mad

Rrrrrr2

Penfailed wrote: »

PETA aren't advising the government.

Pity they aren’t, they’d be a lot more useful than Nphet

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

Well then, after we ask the hospital staff and their families along with nursing home staff and their families to be locked away from society for months on end, what does it get you? All I can see here is talk about pubs.

It's an incredibly selfish suggestion, and absolutely shameless to be thinking it is even a runner.

The main point been made is that right now everybody is locked up.

20% of the workforce are out of work.

People are at breaking point socially and financially in a lot of cases.

The country is going to be in ruins when we start acting responsibly again.

All of this for an illness that has mainly only killed unhealthy people above life expectancy.

Level 5 has achieved nothing. But I can assure you it didn’t cost nothing.

drunkmonkey

hmmm wrote: »

Well then, after we ask the hospital staff and their families along with nursing home staff and their families to be locked away from society for months on end, what does it get you? All I can see here is talk about pubs.

It's an incredibly selfish suggestion, and absolutely shameless to be thinking it is even a runner.

That's the extreme end of it but it has been suggested they should take some time away with their patients.
If care home staff and hospital staff moved into dedicated accommodation for possibly a month at a time while continuing to work it would serve society well.

It's not selfish to suggest and should have been done by now, plenty of people have to leave their families for months on end, considering the circumstances with the threat these workers pose to the wider population it should be on the table as an option.

tails_naf

I think the restrictions shoud be directly tied to cases per 100,000, per county. If you go above 100 per 100,000 then you are level 3, above 150 you're level 4, etc. Easy to understand, direct consequences, and counties that are doing OK can continue to run as normal as possible. It's a total farce bringing in the levels per county and then shutting the whole lot down because 3 out of 26 took the piss. It would also incentivise people in each county to do their part as they can get the county back to level 2. It's feck all good a lad in tipperary can do about what's going on in Dublin if Dublin results in the whole country being at level 5.

Stormyteacup

hmmm wrote: »

Well then, after we ask the hospital staff and their families along with nursing home staff and their families to be locked away from society for months on end, what does it get you? All I can see here is talk about pubs.

It's an incredibly selfish suggestion, and absolutely shameless to be thinking it is even a runner.

Yes probably is selfish but there is a logic to asking some to be locked up rather than all. Yes complete unfair and not going to happen.

Some have lost business and careers and others are better off than ever - hardly equality in that either.

And regards what’s selfish and what isn’t - there’s a good bit of hypocrisy in calling for certain things to reopen over Christmas, knowing that by going to a gym or visiting busy shops and having a meal in a pub/restaurant or getting your hair cut, you are knowingly contributing to a rise in cases and hospitalisations, even deaths, but it’s fine because government gave the go ahead.

Sure if cases rise can always lockdown again?