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Discovery 3x06 - 'Scavengers' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

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    #182
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Although heavy on Burnham and Georgiou, I didn't hate this episode. It still had a good Star Trek feel to it - rescues involving officers incognito are not rare. And rather than undefeatable supervillian, Georgiou was back to just being a well-crafted con artist with the gift of the gab. Even the fight when they were captured was more believable; more perilous.

    And actual consequences for Burnham taking the piss. Believeable ones too. The Federation is in disarray, it can't afford to just be discharging smart officers who break the rules to get the job done; it's not the 24th century. Likewise deferring the responsibility for punishment to Saru made perfect sense.

    I'm hoping that Georgiou's mental issues reveals a more complicated story arc than "flashbacks to when evil Burnham died".


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    #183
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Rawr


    seamus wrote: »
    I'm hoping that Georgiou's mental issues reveals a more complicated story arc than "flashbacks to when evil Burnham died".

    I hoping for this too. One of the tenuous threads that's keeping me holding onto this show is the suggestion that something interesting is going on with the Mirror Universe, and that Georgiou is somehow tied into this.

    Alas, based on how this episode concluded, I have little faith in the writer's abilites to not somehow make it all about Michael....or Mirror Michael in this case. The show feels so Michael-centric that it wouldn't surprise me at all.


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    #184
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    If you're nostalgic for suffocating 60s misogyny fair enough :p

    And the stuff now is better is it ?


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    #185
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    seamus wrote: »
    Although heavy on Burnham and Georgiou, I didn't hate this episode. It still had a good Star Trek feel to it - rescues involving officers incognito are not rare. And rather than undefeatable supervillian, Georgiou was back to just being a well-crafted con artist with the gift of the gab. Even the fight when they were captured was more believable; more perilous.

    And actual consequences for Burnham taking the piss. Believeable ones too. The Federation is in disarray, it can't afford to just be discharging smart officers who break the rules to get the job done; it's not the 24th century. Likewise deferring the responsibility for punishment to Saru made perfect sense.

    I'm hoping that Georgiou's mental issues reveals a more complicated story arc than "flashbacks to when evil Burnham died".

    Someone once said that you can’t make an omelette without cracking some eggs. What was his name again, oh ya Herman Goering .


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    #186
    ~Rebel~
    Registered Users Posts: 30,962 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Baggly wrote: »
    I think both Picard and STD are less rewatchable as they follow a less episodical format, whereby there is a more obvious overarching plot condensed into fewer episodes, compared to TOS, TNG, VOY or DS9.

    I tend to rewatch in sequence, rather than just picking a random episode, but I still don't think I'll be returning to either show... Picard in particular, while you could just go with it as each episode came out and the momentum carried you through. But in hindsight after watching it all, the whole show made absolutely zero sense. Both in terms of its own logic, and within the broader established Trek world.

    AMKC wrote: »
    As for Discovery I tried to rewatch season 1 but struggled as I hated the fake Klingons and there language. I call them klignots.

    Klingoffs.

    seamus wrote: »
    I'm hoping that Georgiou's mental issues reveals a more complicated story arc than "flashbacks to when evil Burnham died".

    Pretty confident it'll be related to Mirror Burnham alright, but not about her death, since she just went missing, so her death isn't confirmed on the show. I'm guessing she'll make an appearance.


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    #187
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,571 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    ~Rebel~ wrote: »


    Pretty confident it'll be related to Mirror Burnham alright, but not about her death, since she just went missing, so her death isn't confirmed on the show. I'm guessing she'll make an appearance.

    Ay ay ay dos Burnham's : O


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    #188
    corkie
    Registered Users Posts: 7,201 ✭✭✭corkie


    ~Rebel~ wrote: »
    Pretty confident it'll be related to Mirror Burnham alright, but not about her death, since she just went missing, so her death isn't confirmed on the show. I'm guessing she'll make an appearance.

    Grasping at straws, as I said already, events in Mirror Universe could not and didn't pan out the same. 'ISS Discovery' was destroyed in 'Main/Prime Universe' during klingon war. When they ships swapped over.

    So unless some "A big ball of wibbly wobbly, timey wimey stuff" brings her to the future. Mirror Burnham is long dead.

    Or only in the memories of Georgiou.

    The Digital Services Act 2024 [EU] ~ Social Media and You ~ Nanny State guidance for parental monitoring of apps ~ Censorship: - broad laws that will probably effect Adult use of same.



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    #189
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    corkie wrote: »
    Grasping at straws, as I said already, events in Mirror Universe could not and didn't pan out the same. 'ISS Discovery' was destroyed in 'Main/Prime Universe' during klingon war. When they ships swapped over.

    So unless some "A big ball of wibbly wobbly, timey wimey stuff" brings her to the future. Mirror Burnham is long dead.

    Or only in the memories of Georgiou.




    Did you see a body?


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    #190
    corkie
    Registered Users Posts: 7,201 ✭✭✭corkie


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Did you see a body?


    No!


    But Season 2 had so many interconnecting plot points that the 'Red Angel' story arc could not play out in the 'Mirror Universe' in the same way.
    • ISS Discovery destroyed
    • No spore drive if they rebuild another
    • Mirror Micheal is not spock's adopted sister.
    • No Earth/Terrain based federation/S31 for control to exist or develop.
    • Empire at war with Klingons, so no access to Time Crystals.

    Probably could think up more reasons but I think above is enough. Without a spore drive even if they built a 'ISS Discovery 1031-A' and jumped to future it would be stuck in what ever region of space it arrived in.

    I made other posts about it: -

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=115376360
    ^^^ Discovery comic miniseries reported her death. <<< not screen canon.
    ^^^ Co-executive producer Ted Sullivan has said that stories in the comics and novels are "canon unless we do something that invalidates it."

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=115377500

    The Digital Services Act 2024 [EU] ~ Social Media and You ~ Nanny State guidance for parental monitoring of apps ~ Censorship: - broad laws that will probably effect Adult use of same.



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    #191
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    corkie wrote: »
    Grasping at straws, as I said already, events in Mirror Universe could not and didn't pan out the same. 'ISS Discovery' was destroyed in 'Main/Prime Universe' during klingon war. When they ships swapped over.

    So unless some "A big ball of wibbly wobbly, timey wimey stuff" brings her to the future. Mirror Burnham is long dead.

    Or only in the memories of Georgiou.

    Georgiu might wake up in a sonic shower and none of this will have happened, that would be grasping at straws.


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    #192
    corkie
    Registered Users Posts: 7,201 ✭✭✭corkie


    ^^^ It's been done before and CBS are not desperate enough to do that again? ^^^

    abec2805744795b06eeb316efaf812fd.jpg





    The Digital Services Act 2024 [EU] ~ Social Media and You ~ Nanny State guidance for parental monitoring of apps ~ Censorship: - broad laws that will probably effect Adult use of same.



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    #193
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sorry. I deleted it. I'm genuinely not trying to spoil, I just read ahead and like to know what might happen.


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    #194
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,224 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    corkie wrote: »
    Grasping at straws, as I said already, events in Mirror Universe could not and didn't pan out the same. 'ISS Discovery' was destroyed in 'Main/Prime Universe' during klingon war. When they ships swapped over.

    So unless some "A big ball of wibbly wobbly, timey wimey stuff" brings her to the future. Mirror Burnham is long dead.

    Or only in the memories of Georgiou.

    Did someone mention wibbly wobbly, timey wimey?

    :D

    DrWHOStarTrekCvr1PR21EB3941.jpg

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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    #195
    ~Rebel~
    Registered Users Posts: 30,962 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    corkie wrote: »
    Grasping at straws, as I said already, events in Mirror Universe could not and didn't pan out the same. 'ISS Discovery' was destroyed in 'Main/Prime Universe' during klingon war. When they ships swapped over.

    So unless some "A big ball of wibbly wobbly, timey wimey stuff" brings her to the future. Mirror Burnham is long dead.

    Or only in the memories of Georgiou.

    You have a lot more faith in this show than I do. Do you think these writers would allow something as simple as time to get in the way? We've just had a season of people zipping around through time, and have just come out into a universe where we know timeships have been a reality for ages.

    I'm confident we'll see more crossover Mirror Universe stuff this season, simply because they've already invoked it in dialogue. And if they're doing that, it makes more sense that there will be at least one piece of connective tissue involved rather than a bunch of random strangers from the Mirror Present.

    corkie wrote: »
    No!


    But Season 2 had so many interconnecting plot points that the 'Red Angel' story arc could not play out in the 'Mirror Universe' in the same way.
    • ISS Discovery destroyed
    • No spore drive if they rebuild another
    • Mirror Micheal is not spock's adopted sister.
    • No Earth/Terrain based federation/S31 for control to exist or develop.
    • Empire at war with Klingons, so no access to Time Crystals.

    Probably could think up more reasons but I think above is enough. Without a spore drive even if they built a 'ISS Discovery 1031-A' and jumped to future it would be stuck in what ever region of space it arrived in.

    I made other posts about it: -

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=115376360
    ^^^ Discovery comic miniseries reported her death. <<< not screen canon.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=115377500

    There's no need for any of that stuff you mention to play any sort of a part. All it would involve is any sort of time travel - which Trek has been tossing around casually for decades in every single one of its iterations, including this one. So I don't think any of the above would put off the writers if exploring Mirror Michael is something they wanted to do.

    I'm only making this leap because it somewhat ties in with what the writers have been setting up thus far;
    Actively bringing up an interest in the Mirror Universe, and mentioning other crossings.
    Actively bringing up Georgiu's strong connection to someone (Burnham as a proxy for Mirror Burnham who was effectively her daughter).
    Creating Georgiu's strange mysterious flashback seizures that have been triggered by something/someone.
    I'm just taking those pieces of setup and seeing where they might lead, and some sort of Georgiu/Mirror Michael story is one possibility that jumps out.

    We'll see how it plays out, but at very least, I expect some Georgiu Mirror Universe/Time hopping story to occur.


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    #196
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    corkie wrote: »
    No!


    But Season 2 had so many interconnecting plot points that the 'Red Angel' story arc could not play out in the 'Mirror Universe' in the same way.
    • ISS Discovery destroyed
    • No spore drive if they rebuild another
    • Mirror Micheal is not spock's adopted sister.
    • No Earth/Terrain based federation/S31 for control to exist or develop.
    • Empire at war with Klingons, so no access to Time Crystals.

    Probably could think up more reasons but I think above is enough. Without a spore drive even if they built a 'ISS Discovery 1031-A' and jumped to future it would be stuck in what ever region of space it arrived in.

    I made other posts about it: -

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=115376360
    ^^^ Discovery comic miniseries reported her death. <<< not screen canon.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=115377500




    Can you explain how Sisko, Bashir, O'Brien, Jadsia, Ezri, et al were able to come together in Mirror Terok Nor?
    Or the crew of Enterprise (NX and USS)?
    Earth should have been destroyed by the Alien probe of ST:IV...



    Unless time is going to run along the "ripple in a river" style none of them make sense, so why would this one?




    Also: Does the previous comment regarding Terrans having a defective gene mean that Smily's crew were destined to be evil and were just handed the most advance warship, of the Federation, in DS9?


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    #197
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Also: Does the previous comment regarding Terrans having a defective gene mean that Smily's crew were destined to be evil and were just handed the most advance warship, of the Federation, in DS9?
    There's an implication in Discovery that the "chimera gene" thing was just made up rubbish to "test" Georgiou.

    They may also be sowing seeds too though.


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    #198
    corkie
    Registered Users Posts: 7,201 ✭✭✭corkie


    @Cork_exile I'm just theorizing that they didn't have 'Control'/'Red Angel' happen in the mirror universe, so time could progress unaffected for other series Mirror episodes.

    @~Rebel~ If we believe what 'Kovich' has said about the mirror universe. I take it more of a throw back reference to Season 1 and not that we will see the mirror universe again. STD Writer's possibly shutting the door on it.

    People putting more weight into 'David Cronenberg' cameo scene.

    I expect some Georgiu Mirror Universe/Time hopping story to occur.

    Above will probably happen in the S31 Show and they are just building up to that?

    So unless some "A big ball of wibbly wobbly, timey wimey stuff" brings her to the future. Mirror Burnham is long dead.

    But Season 2 had so many interconnecting plot points that the 'Red Angel' story arc could not play out in the 'Mirror Universe' in the same way.

    The Digital Services Act 2024 [EU] ~ Social Media and You ~ Nanny State guidance for parental monitoring of apps ~ Censorship: - broad laws that will probably effect Adult use of same.



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    #199
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    corkie wrote: »
    @Cork_exile I'm just theorizing that they didn't have 'Control'/'Red Angel' happen in the mirror universe, so time could progress unaffected for other series Mirror episodes.

    IF you go down that rabbit hole you'd have to wonder how everything (pretty much) is 'very samey'* in the mirror universe, when such a fundamental 'evil' difference would have meant both universes should have been unrecognisable to each other, certainly not evil clones of each other.




    * That's the actual multi-dimensional language used :pac:


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    #200
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I took the Chronenberg scene as mere confirmation the Mirror Universe was effectively dead as a concept in Discovery's timeline; given the last time we met it chronologically across the franchise (DS9, right?) the Terran Empire was collapsed or thereabouts, the scene told us - and Georghiu - that there was nothing to go back to.


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    #201
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    IF you go down that rabbit hole you'd have to wonder how everything (pretty much) is 'very samey'* in the mirror universe, when such a fundamental 'evil' difference would have meant both universes should have been unrecognisable to each other, certainly not evil clones of each other.




    * That's the actual multi-dimensional language used :pac:




    I always did think that.


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    #202
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I always did think that.

    Exactly, shush! :pac:


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    #203
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    All the non burnham parts were great
    Well apart from adira
    Sob
    Interesting reading all the theories about mirror universes


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    #204
    ~Rebel~
    Registered Users Posts: 30,962 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    bluewolf wrote: »
    All the non burnham parts were great
    Well apart from adira
    Sob
    Interesting reading all the theories about mirror universes

    Jeez, what'd that leave afterwards?
    "We might have to go on a mission - be ready!"..."We're not going on a mission this week..."


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    #205
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    ~Rebel~ wrote: »
    Jeez, what'd that leave afterwards?
    "We might have to go on a mission - be ready!"..."We're not going on a mission this week..."

    crew interactions
    stamets
    omg we got an upgrade this is cool
    admiral going WILL YOU COP ON FFS
    saru being the awesome captain that he is
    tilly going i like burnham but she's a tool
    booker sorting everyone out
    even georgiou was less hammy this week & mysterious visions!!


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    #206
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Could a mod put a link in for episode 7 as it takes ages to track down the next thread and I only just saw ep 7 thread this morning but I can’t find it now


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    #207
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,098 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    Could a mod put a link in for episode 7 as it takes ages to track down the next thread and I only just saw ep 7 thread this morning but I can’t find it now

    The one for 7 is here:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058135695


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    #208
    corkie
    Registered Users Posts: 7,201 ✭✭✭corkie


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    Could a mod put a link in for episode 7 as it takes ages to track down the next thread and I only just saw ep 7 thread this morning but I can’t find it now

    Bookmark or follow the Star Trek subforum?
    https://touch.boards.ie/forum/340

    Or PC Browser link
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=340

    The Digital Services Act 2024 [EU] ~ Social Media and You ~ Nanny State guidance for parental monitoring of apps ~ Censorship: - broad laws that will probably effect Adult use of same.



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    #209
    pc7
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 14,004 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7


    She’s crying again this week, seriously and wtaf, give over with the winging.


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    #210
    EltonJohn69
    Registered Users Posts: 4,168 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    Miles O’Brien handled doing 20 years in prison better then Tilly did getting that promotion.


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    #211
    corkie
    Registered Users Posts: 7,201 ✭✭✭corkie


    ^^^ Wrong episode? That is in E07!!??

    The Digital Services Act 2024 [EU] ~ Social Media and You ~ Nanny State guidance for parental monitoring of apps ~ Censorship: - broad laws that will probably effect Adult use of same.



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