Discovery 3x06 - 'Scavengers' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

corkie

Discovery 3x06 - 'Scavengers'

Sad Professor wrote: »

Folks, in relation to spoilers, you don't have to use spoiler tags in the episode threads. If someone hasn't seen the episode yet then they shouldn't be reading the thread, period. When it airs on Netflix doesn't matter. I would suggest that whoever starts the thread put a spoiler warning in the title. I'll add one to this now.

Please can we keep the discussion to the merits or not of the episode.
And not carry forward discussion of casting choices from previous threads.



Discussion of youtube reviewers/critics means and motives?
(Anti-treker, ME, Nerdorotic, Ketwolski)
is stale and something littered through the seasons.







Warning: This thread will contain spoilers for the episode. Spoiler tags will not be used, so if you don't want to be spoiled read no further.

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{ ** Spoilers Below ** }

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corkie

"
Retrofit

Following her arrival at Federation Headquarters, Discovery would undergo a three-week retrofit, with all of her systems being upgraded with 32nd century. Part of this refit included installation of programmable matter into all control stations for improved performance, converting her warp engines to be detached in nature for improved manoeuvrability and a re-designation as NCC-1031-A. Part of the refit included an upgrade to the Spore Drive control cube, converting the physical injector shunts into nanogel control interfaces.

"



NCC-1031 (original registry)
NCC-1031-A (post 32nd Century refit)

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/USS_Discovery



As for the episode, felt like a filler, with some personality (Adira) development.

PirateShampoo

Well at least she gave Saru her approval of being demoted.

Any other Captain would have lost their ****, except there seems to be no real consequences for Burnham and she can do whatever the Frack she wants.

So many plot hole questions, but i know how some people enjoy the show so i wont **** on it immediately.

ilovesmybrick

corkie wrote: »

"
As for the episode, felt like a filler, with some personality (Adira) development.

I've no problem with the filler episode, I do like having Trek episodes I can stick on without getting dragged into a long story line. However, it would have been a far better episode without the ludicrously small rap on the knuckles Burnham got, or at least leave out the really stupid emotional "that's okay, I think you did the right thing by mildly giving out to me" segment at the very end.

On the Adira thing, I don't care about the character, at least not as much as the show thinks I should. I care about the ship, and the fancy ship upgrades (and apparent sentience). More ship, less Adira!

Spear

That just felt dull and by the numbers to me. I'm just short of dismissing it as entirely filler, if not for that blackbox, which I suspect will matter down the line.

Given the shake up in show runners and writing, I had higher hopes for this series, but it's just not delivering.

Some small good points: Admiral Vance seems more of a pragmatic individual, and less of cardboard cutout.

Burnham gets called out and punished for her crap, something that's happened a few times to a lesser degree. I doubt we'll see a Mariner style redemption at this point.

Baggly

SOMEONE THROW THE ****ING BOOK AT HER

flazio

It's funny to see posts bitching on a programme that you don't like, knowing full well you had to go out of your way to see it specifically.

Baggly

If only there was some way for people to know ahead of watching the episode if it was a good episode or not.

You know....like other people watching it first and posting their thoughts online for others to read.....

corkie

GreeBo wrote: »

.....
3 seasons in and other than Saru, what do we know about the rest of supporting cast?
Mudd is probably one of the more rounded characters.
.....

^^^ Cross thread quote to make a point

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

On the Adira thing, I don't care about the character, at least not as much as the show thinks I should. I care about the ship, and the fancy ship upgrades (and apparent sentience). More ship, less Adira!

Looks like this show can not get approval on either count. People moaning not enough development of characters, then when we do, get some complaints again. I think there has been subtle development of the most/main characters across the seasons. (Other than in the face of terminating characters)

As for 'Adira': -
Warning information following based on casting info.

Both 'Adira' & 'Gray' have been signed up for 2 Seasons, so expect a development arc for them across the seasons.

lapua20grain

It's the Burnham show again, the head clocked to one side and whispering is starting to grate, she gets away with murder and will continue to do so. Really turning me off this show

ilovesmybrick

corkie wrote: »

Looks like this show can not get approval on either count. People moaning not enough development of characters, then when we do, get some complaints again. I think there has been subtle development of the most/main characters across the seasons.

Fair point, but a large part of Trek for me has always been the ships, and it was a bit of a tease to start the episode talking about all the fancy upgrades, hinting that the ship would be sent on a mission, and then seeing nothing of it for the rest of the episode. I can't help it if I want to see more of what 32nd century federation ship technology is!

With regards Adira I just find the whole 16 year old super genius thing ground that Trek always goes back to and it never works well. From this episode alone it appears that Adira is not only a skilled engineer, can rebuild the interface for an experimental and millenium old drive, and also seems to be able to undertake some form of surgery/medical treatment (Stamets arm interfaces). I know there's the whole symbiont and seven lifetimes thing, but it seems a bit much and is falling into the same territory where much of the criticism of Burnham comes from, namely this one character that can do absolutely everything. This is not the fault of the actor themselves, but I absolutely hate when shows have a teen ploymath genius.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed this episode a lot, but would have liked more ship and less Burnham uneccesarily validating Sarus decisions! And I am interested in where they're going with Adira, but would have happily sacrificed most of that for lovely, lovely ship shots!

Edit 2: Also, on the topic of ships, was that a Miranda class in the junkyard!!!

corkie

This episode with the 'BlackBox' thing is a throwback to a opening scene in episode 3 (2:17) . The search for blackboxes hasn't been mentioned before?


An alien hands her something with a Starfleet ship registry number. There is no known ship with the number (or starting with the number) NCC-4774.





Look's like they are drip feeding bits through the season.


And ship finally got the upgrades, that people where requesting in prior threads.

ilovesmybrick

corkie wrote: »

This episode with the 'BlackBox' thing is a throwback to a opening scene in episode 3 (2:17) . The search for blackboxes hasn't been mentioned before?

Yeah, this was the first time. Also I think they mentioned that this was the third to be located? The scene for the next episode in this weeks Ready Room is based around the information from these items, so I'm quite excited to see what they come out with. It seems (hopefully!) that we might get some answers sooner rather than later which drives the second half of the season.

PirateShampoo

corkie wrote: »

^^^ Cross thread quote to make a point



Looks like this show can not get approval on either count. People moaning not enough development of characters, then when we do, get some complaints again. I think there has been subtle development of the most/main characters across the seasons. (Other than in the face of terminating characters)

Because shes been in the show for 4 episodes and she already has had more character development than characters who have been there from Episode 1.

fritzelly

Don't get the point of the whole detached nacelle

TheValeyard

Baggly wrote: »

SOMEONE THROW THE ****ING BOOK AT HER

Maybe BSG airlock style

TheValeyard

fritzelly wrote: »

Don't get the point of the whole detached nacelle

Future stuff? Or maybe a possible defence to dilithium explosion 2.0

Goodshape

No I didn't like that at all to be perfectly honest.

Like a bad episode of Doctor Who.

I'd have preferred if the writers had split this season in two - at the end of ep3 Burnham and Booker leave together to find out the cause of the Burn. The rest of the crew continue on to re-join the Federation and go on a few away missions using the Spore drive. We'd get the continuing adventures of Burnham and Booker for half an ep, the other half could be some actual Star Trek stuff.

corkie

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Because shes been in the show for 4 episodes and she already has had more character development than characters who have been there from Episode 1.

In last weeks episode, she only briefly appeared. So 3 episodes. Intro, Episode dedicated to her and brief development here. As a main character for this season, it is expected they would be development.

Use of 'she'/'her' instead of 'they' for 'Adira' as hasn't come out in show yet.

As the rest of the main cast have had there development time. So let us look at a sideline character of 'Joann Owosekun' in the show since S01E03 (excluding 2 episodes pilot).



'Owo' may not have had an episode (i remember) dedicated to her. But has featured subtly in lot of episodes, developing the story or other characters.



There is only so much you can squeeze into an hour, so I think they have a tricky balancing act of story versus character development.

The only other 1st episode character that may not have been developed is 'Keyla Detmer' but like 'Owo' she featured in others story. And seems to be getting some air time this season.

PirateShampoo

And 3 seasons in I couldn't name them even if you put a gun to my head.

I could probably name the Enterprise crew and I only watched that sporadically.

Sesshoumaru

fritzelly wrote: »

Don't get the point of the whole detached nacelle

I quite liked the scene where Books ships strafes henchmen and can then 'turn around' without actually having to turn around. Just my suspicion, but I think the detached nacelles will allow Discovery perform similar maneuvers in future episodes.

Jesus Christ

fritzelly

TheValeyard wrote: »

Future stuff? Or maybe a possible defence to dilithium explosion 2.0

The core is in the ship not the nacelle

Sesshoumaru

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus Christ

I wouldn't have gone as far as describing that episode as the second coming of JC... but hey

Tristram

Thought it was alright. Not getting the level of hate directed at the show in episode threads. It's not the best thing since sliced bread but it's a bit of fun and better than having no trek on TV.

Slydice

Solid episode! Saru really feels like he's developing into a proper Starfleet Captain.
I thought the shipyard planet reminded me A_LOT of the start of the film The Running Man. Might have been intentional.
Some good character and relationships development as well.

I get really Hyped when they called out Self Sealing Stem Bolts! That was brilliant! Proper nod to DS9.

Sesshoumaru

I'd be interested to hear other peoples opinion on how Admiral Vance dealt with Burnham & Saru at the end?

I personally felt he was rather even handed. Disobeying direct orders is not showing good judgement, so negative point there for Burnham. But Vance does make it a point to say that if asked he might have deemed the intel opportunity worth the risk. Is that just a hypothetical? or is that his way of saying that Burnham had better judgement on the value of the potential intel gain?

With Burnham traipsing off on another unsanctioned mission there was a reputational risk to Starfleet as the admiral pointed out. So once again another negative point for Burnham. But she didn't requisition (steal) a Starfleet ship á la Kirk in the movies. She didn't wear her uniform or put any other real Starfleet member in danger. So I think the reputational risk was low here.

On the plus side if that Andorian really led an uprising against the syndicate (or just the Andorian part of it? not sure!) then he must be known to Starfleet and as such known to Admiral Vance. So to have him is potentially a good catch for Starfleet? Maybe! Also keeping in mind that Starfleet seem to be low on resources/people/ships/everything - then I think he made the correct call not immediately throwing her in the brig. Whether you agree with the writers of the show or not, her character is written as being extremely capable. Probably a good asset to have - but on a short leash maybe?

AMKC

fritzelly wrote: »

Don't get the point of the whole detached nacelle

Me either. How is that supposed to make the ship more manuravble. The nacelles just form the warb field so a ship can go to warp they do not manoeuvre the ship the thrusters do that and the impulse engines. It did look cool do.

It was an ok episode but not the greatest.

I would like to know how Micheal was able to get out by the cloak so easy. Did she beam out or take a shuttle? and the same coming back but I guess then since they knew she was missing that hey just let her back in.
Also did Grudge fly that ship?

Also what about your man beaming everywhere surely it would have been just quicker to walk to the science lap as he obviously did not know how to use his personal transporter.

The badges tech was cool do but it really gone on the look of the badges.

sioda

This was my favourite this season tbh. More Phillipa is what this show needs.

Any chance she was tortured by the admiral?


I missed the A on the saucer the first time. Very nice idea. Self sealing at bolts ffs 🤣.

Sari is getting more captain like every ep.

duffman13

A solid episode and some development from Saru and even Tilly saying Michael is a spanner basically. The demotion scene was great to see her get what was coming to her but the "your doing the right thing line" was not needed. Would agree with the other poster, would be great to let Booker and Burnham head of on their own adventures at this point

GreeBo

corkie wrote: »

^^^ Cross thread quote to make a point



Looks like this show can not get approval on either count. People moaning not enough development of characters, then when we do, get some complaints again. I think there has been subtle development of the most/main characters across the seasons. (Other than in the face of terminating characters)

I think the point is that they arent developing her, just having her in scenes doesnt automatically develop her, they have to tell us things about her that would make her real and interesting to the audience. I havent seen that happen yet, they just gave us a hollow Wesley character.

At this point there is no reason to care about her, they are almost relying on some faux-intrigue out of not building her to make us interested in the character.

Oh and if we are going to have to sit through multiple episodes of her talking to her imaginary friend its going to get very old.

GreeBo

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I quite liked the scene where Books ships strafes henchmen and can then 'turn around' without actually having to turn around. Just my suspicion, but I think the detached nacelles will allow Discovery perform similar maneuvers in future episodes.

I was watching that and could only think, surely it would have been much faster and much easier to, yunno, just turn around?

GreeBo

For me Saru is the only character that they have really made real.
Im interested in some of the others (Tilly, Stammets, Georgiou and Culbert) but they havent made them deep enough for me.

In an episode where the plot revolves around Discovery being ready to leap away at a moments notice it seems like, oh I dunno, a bad idea to completely reconfigure the ships spore drive on your own sitting on the floor with your imaginary friend?

Brian CivilEng

I enjoyed that one, enough nods to the past to remind us that we are in the Star Trek universe, but it's still it's own show.

Delighted to see a few writing tropes not come to pass. I was already getting annoyed at the writers for killing off the andorian, was pleasently surprised to have him survive. Also the demotion of Burnham, hopefully it sticks but it reminded me of the first time my wife watched an episode of Next Gen with me. It was the one with Wesley Crusher's nanites nearly destroying the ship, my non-Star Trek fan wife watched with me and when it was over asked if that was Wil Wheaton's last episode, as there was no way Wesley should be allowed remain on the ship after behaving like that. Oh how I laughed.

I liked the Stamet's "mentoring" of Adira bit, even if he sounded a little patronising at times. The "Gray" character I find a little creepy, I wish he would stop smiling! Wonder where there are going with that storyline.

All in all an enjoyable episode, not an all time classic but enough to keep me looking forward to next week. Now to watch The Mandalorian...

Goodshape

Maybe I watched this in the wrong mood or something? Thought it was awful from start to finish. Had to skip past some of the stuff with Michael and Book on the planet. Really felt and looked and sounded like a bad episode of Doctor Who to me.

Was great that Michael got demoted but even those scenes were difficult to watch. These professional starfleet officers just look like they'll collapse into themselves with the emotional weight of it all at any moment.

The ship refit might be interesting. Don't really know because we've not really seen any of it yet. Won't hold out much hope that we ever really will, outside of fleeting dutch-angled over-blown lens-flaired sneaky-peaks. And again I wish this crew weren't so outwardly awestruck and dazled by it all. "Do we need this?" "awe hell yea we do, lolz" - this isn't Lower Decks ffs.

Whatever's happening with Georgiou might be interesting. Was she seeing memories from Prime Georgiou or did I get that wrong? Thought maybe they want to meld these characters so as to to create a whole TV show with a Space Hitler protagonist.

Anyway, didn't like. Advanced the story for about 60 seconds (Michael demoted) but otherwise pure filler, and not enyable at all.

TheValeyard

fritzelly wrote: »

The core is in the ship not the nacelle

I'm aware of that, but who knows how things operate by the 31st century. Sure we've seen how the nacelle taking damage can wreck the ship, could be a safety thing or they just hasnt thought it through and thought it looked cool n future looking.

GreeBo

Goodshape wrote: »

Whatever's happening with Georgiou might be interesting. Was she seeing memories from Prime Georgiou or did I get that wrong? Thought maybe they want to meld these characters so as to to create a whole TV show with a Space Hitler protagonist.

I think we have to assume whatever is happening to her is tied to the Terran Universe moving further away and impacting *something* about her that we don't know yet.
Is the a hologram? Is she "breaking down" because the universe cant have two Georgiou's in the same space/time continuum or her ties to her own universe are now broken etc etc.

If this was StarWars I'd blame the midichlorians.

GreeBo

TheValeyard wrote: »

I'm aware of that, but who knows how things operate by the 31st century. Sure we've seen how the nacelle taking damage can wreck the ship, could be a safety thing or they just hasnt thought it through and thought it looked cool n future looking.

They said it was for better maneuverability though right?
(Which I dont understand in a space context!)

Baggly

Re: Maneauverability - unless they mean turning while at warp? Or if they are trying to scape through a gap at impulse, they can move the nacelles and tuck them in under the main body of the ship?

In fairness, nacelles do seem to get hit a fair bit. If you could detach and gettison them, it might be a good feature in certain circumstances.

I liked part of this episode - the retrofit happening was positive - some character development for Tilly, Stamets - The Admiral being admirally - Liked the scrap yard bits tbh.

Disliked how the issue of the insubordination was handled - disliked how they are handling Adira. Feels very Wesley 2.0. For the record i intensely disliked the Wesley character way back when.

GreeBo

Baggly wrote: »

Re: Maneauverability - unless they mean turning while at warp? Or if they are trying to scape through a gap at impulse, they can move the nacelles and tuck them in under the main body of the ship?

In fairness, nacelles do seem to get hit a fair bit. If you could detach and gettison them, it might be a good feature in certain circumstances.

But would your ship be any use without them? (and if it was, then why have them in the first place?!)
I also wouldnt like to be part of any engineering detail stationed in them, best to just pull on the red uniform and be done with it.

I liked part of this episode - the retrofit happening was positive - some character development for Tilly, Stamets - The Admiral being admirally - Liked the scrap yard bits tbh.

+1
Though StarTrek was never really about killing a whole bunch of people like that, it really stood out to me as not very ST.

Disliked how the issue of the insubordination was handled - disliked how they are handling Adira. Feels very Wesley 2.0. For the record i intensely disliked the Wesley character way back when.

Burnham was acting like a child, "but I wanna go and do my thing!"
There is no way that any StarFleet officer would act like that, certainly not a First Officer, and certainly not a supposed "Vulcan". It fits in with her narrative, but nothing else.

I didnt hate Wesley that much, but Adira and friend are too much, like who on earth would let a teenager who is on the ship a wet week roam freely around arguably the most important piece of tech in the universe and not only that, but take it apart and rebuilt it without anyone else being involved...during a crisis where that tech could be needed at any moment.

I mean come on!

TheValeyard

Wonder how advanced the Pakled are now!

Baggly

I would think maybe they could get by on one nacelle for a while if needs be. I dont know - i really should have studied warp mechanics more

My thinking is that you can fly a jet with 1 engine down, but its not recommended most of the time.

I mean i could forgive Burnham a bit given she was 'on her own' looking for Discovery for a year - so acclimatising to being part of a command structure again is gonna be tough - but it just feels like more of the same because we didnt really see any of that year & she has previous of doing her own thing.

Am i crazy in her name being BURNham and the big incident being called the BURN. Like it feels like a big neon arrow to me that they are intrinsically linked.

GreeBo

Baggly wrote: »

Am i crazy in her name being BURNham and the big incident being called the BURN. Like it feels like a big neon arrow to me that they are intrinsically linked.

Well it wouldnt be very subtle, so in all likelihood you are 100% correct.

TheValeyard

GreeBo wrote: »

Well it wouldnt be very subtle, so in all likelihood you are 100% correct.

We are all hoping it's just a coincidence. Please just be a coincidence. It's got to be a coincidence.

GreeBo

TheValeyard wrote: »

We are all hoping it's just a coincidence. Please just be a coincidence. It's got to be a coincidence.

I'm just amazed that her favourite food isnt bacon.

Baggly

If it does turn out to be true, its a better choice to go BURNham -> BURN, rather than, for example, calling it the MIKE.

AlmightyCushion

So, in 3 weeks, they take a thousand year old ship, upgrade it with brand new tech, completely redesign the interface and do it with minimal testing and user training. As a software developer that bit was giving me a nervous breakdown. In the real world, you can't change a field in an excel report without it breaking a dozen things.

EltonJohn69

Slydice wrote: »

Solid episode! Saru really feels like he's developing into a proper Starfleet Captain.
I thought the shipyard planet reminded me A_LOT of the start of the film The Running Man. Might have been intentional.
Some good character and relationships development as well.

I get really Hyped when they called out Self Sealing Stem Bolts! That was brilliant! Proper nod to DS9.

Yeap I was getting serious running man vibes too

Sesshoumaru

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I'd be interested to hear other peoples opinion on how Admiral Vance dealt with Burnham & Saru at the end?

I personally felt he was rather even handed. Disobeying direct orders is not showing good judgement, so negative point there for Burnham. But Vance does make it a point to say that if asked he might have deemed the intel opportunity worth the risk. Is that just a hypothetical? or is that his way of saying that Burnham had better judgement on the value of the potential intel gain?

With Burnham traipsing off on another unsanctioned mission there was a reputational risk to Starfleet as the admiral pointed out. So once again another negative point for Burnham. But she didn't requisition (steal) a Starfleet ship á la Kirk in the movies. She didn't wear her uniform or put any other real Starfleet member in danger. So I think the reputational risk was low here.

On the plus side if that Andorian really led an uprising against the syndicate (or just the Andorian part of it? not sure!) then he must be known to Starfleet and as such known to Admiral Vance. So to have him is potentially a good catch for Starfleet? Maybe! Also keeping in mind that Starfleet seem to be low on resources/people/ships/everything - then I think he made the correct call not immediately throwing her in the brig. Whether you agree with the writers of the show or not, her character is written as being extremely capable. Probably a good asset to have - but on a short leash maybe?

But she's been shown to not be trustworthy, she does not care who she turns on. Immediately upon being dressed down she just HAD to have the last word, with the admiral.

She was not in the brig because she saved lives. That is not why she went on the "mission"

Saru should have taken it to the Admiral, indeed, but he had literally already been shot down by the admiral when asking to go on a mission.

GreeBo

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

So, in 3 weeks, they take a thousand year old ship, upgrade it with brand new tech, completely redesign the interface and do it with minimal testing and user training. As a software developer that bit was giving me a nervous breakdown. In the real world, you can't change a field in an excel report without it breaking a dozen things.

Yeah, all the little robo-droids in the world wouldnt give me the confidence to go out on a mission when you will be 100% on your own and you know no one can come and get you.

Especially turning your engines into little floating things...like what if they didnt come with you on your first jump?!