Classic car import: what does Brexit mean?

unkel

hi5 wrote: »

Registration numbers on vehicles coming into the country after 31/12/20 will be kept on a database.
Any vehicles put forward for registration after this date will be cross referenced with this list and if on it will be charged tariffs, if not on the list then it will be presumed to have been in the country before 31/12/20 and so no tariffs.

So you reckon the onus is on the Irish authorities to prove the car was actually brought in on or after 01/01/2021? I very much doubt that.

If you're right (or if we will merely get a backstop) I am going to change career and smuggle in high end cars next year. On the ferry from England / Scotland to the north and then I will score myself some friends in the provos who, for a fee of course, will show me some "roads" into this country. Isn't there a "good republican" who has a farm with entrances in both NI and ROI? :pac:

macplaxton

https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/brexit/information-for-businesses/vrt-implications-of-trade-with-the-uk/vrt-implications-of-importing-cars-from-the-uk.aspx

Revenue wrote:

Vehicles brought into the State from the UK before 1 January 2021 can be registered as normal. Customers must provide documentation to prove that the vehicle was acquired prior to 1 January 2021.

00:30s - Vehicles currently in the State - Invoice required proving the vehicle was sold in the State before Brexit occured...once you can prove it was in the State prior to Brexit.

Isambard

macplaxton wrote: »

https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/brexit/information-for-businesses/vrt-implications-of-trade-with-the-uk/vrt-implications-of-importing-cars-from-the-uk.aspx

00:30s - Vehicles currently in the State - Invoice required proving the vehicle was sold in the State before Brexit occured...once you can prove it was in the State prior to Brexit.

pretty sure that's just for VRT It mentions registered, which is nothing to do with VAT or Excise duty.

macplaxton

w124man wrote: »

You present a UK car for registration after 31/12/20 then the transaction falls under WTO rules irrespective of when you brought it into the country,

As I said before: Nonsense.

The Revenue clearly state it is respective of when it was brought into the country.

w124man wrote: »

deal or no deal.

It most certainly depends on what deal is done. Nothing concrete yet, so assumption being made on worst case scenario. Current expectation is a wafer-thin deal, making WTO more likely.

macplaxton

Isambard wrote: »

pretty sure that's just for VRT It mentions registered, which is nothing to do with VAT or Excise duty.

I'm pretty sure that if you watch it, you'll hear Mr Grogan is talking about duty, VAT and intra-community transfers.

commited

w124man wrote: »

See above. I never mentioned VRT. Read what I wrote!

I suggest you read what you wrote. "Presenting a car for registration" is the VRT process, there is no other way to register a car in Ireland. WTO rules concern VAT/Duty and are based on when goods cross a border. Revenue have said a customs clearance cert may be required hence my earlier question on how I get one now (which remains unanswered) as I am fully customs compliant and that doesn't change based on the calendar turning to 2021.

macplaxton

commited wrote: »

Revenue have said a customs clearance cert may be required hence my earlier question on how I get one now

If the vehicle is here already from GB it doesn't need a custom clearance cert, so you won't get one.

What Revenue haven't expanded on is what form the evidence of import prior to 1st Jan takes. Are they going to happy with hand-written receipts on the back of fag packet? Methinks not.

Isambard

hmmm, might be a good idea to park it in front of your local landmark with todays paper and take a photo, might help

w124man

macplaxton wrote: »

You're assuming WTO kicks in on 1st. Which isn't unreasonable, but it's also not a dead cert yet.

Every country trades under WTO rules. WTO rules are already there. The EU has its own trading block with its own rules in addition to WTO. Once you are out of the EU, deal or no deal you are back on WTO rules.

w124man

commited wrote: »

I suggest you read what you wrote. "Presenting a car for registration" is the VRT process, there is no other way to register a car in Ireland. WTO rules concern VAT/Duty and are based on when goods cross a border. Revenue have said a customs clearance cert may be required hence my earlier question on how I get one now (which remains unanswered) as I am fully customs compliant and that doesn't change based on the calendar turning to 2021.

I did read what I wrote, after all I wrote it. I wrote "You present a UK car for registration after 31/12/20". The registration process will include the presentation of a tax clearance cert from 01/01/21. You don't need one now.

Isambard

w124man wrote: »

Every country trades under WTO rules. WTO rules are already there. The EU has its own trading block with its own rules in addition to WTO. Once you are out of the EU, deal or no deal you are back on WTO rules.

i'm not getting this. If there's a trade deal made between the EU and the UK, then they will be trading under that, not under WTO rules. So it's WTO only if there's no deal.

unkel

Isambard wrote: »

If there's a trade deal made between the EU and the UK, then they will be trading under that, not under WTO rules. So it's WTO only if there's no deal.

Indeed. No sign of any deal though, is there? Time is running out.

commited

w124man wrote: »

I did read what I wrote, after all I wrote it. I wrote "You present a UK car for registration after 31/12/20". The registration process will include the presentation of a tax clearance cert from 01/01/21. You don't need one now.

It is interesting as Revenue's own informational video contradicts you re vehicles already in the state. Back to my original question - how does one acquire a tax clearance cert? It should be fully possible to get one now to use as proof post 1 Jan.

macplaxton

commited wrote: »

- how does one acquire a tax clearance cert? It should be fully possible to get one now to use as proof post 1 Jan.

You can't get one in advance.

You get one if you clear something at customs

There are no customs to clear until potentially 1st Jan.

If it's already in, the Revenue state invoice showing date or something else, something something, whatever satisfactory to them, but absolutely nothing about advance tax clearance certs, because to issue something like that, they'd need to see it, and they (Revenue) aren't seeing anything until they start doing customs.

macplaxton

w124man wrote: »

Once you are out of the EU, deal or no deal you are back on WTO rules.

Not the case. The UK have been out of the EU since 31st January 2020.

They did a deal to change nothing for 11 months (transition agreement). They have been trading on EU rules during that period.

w124man

macplaxton wrote: »

Not the case. The UK have been out of the EU since 31st January 2020.

They did a deal to change nothing for 11 months (transition agreement). They have been trading on EU rules during that period.

The UK is in transition until 31/12/20 then its WTO rules.

Isambard

w124man wrote: »

The UK is in transition until 31/12/20 then its WTO rules.

Only if there's no deal, which looks increasingly likely, but if there's a last minute deal, then WTO rules don't apply...the deal does.

Car99

Deal or no deal there will be VAT to pay . The only tariff that would be a voided with a deal is 10%. So in the grand scheme of things deal or no deal importing a car from the UK in 2021 will be 20 to 23% more expensive best case scenario.

macplaxton

w124man wrote: »

The UK is in transition until 31/12/20 then its WTO rules.

Correct and that transition period was because of a deal at the time.

macplaxton

Car99 wrote: »

Deal or no deal there will be VAT to pay.

Depends on the details.

If it was the case as you say, VAT would have been charged since February, but it hasn't.

What we can be certain about is the uncertainty at the minute.

mikehn

Would anyone be able to guide me on how I'm fixed in my little dilemma. I am looking at an old Citroen for sale in the North. It was imported into Southern Ireland from Germany about 10 years ago and 3 years ago was sold on to a guy in Antrim.At the time of importation into the Republic it was correctly processed and an Irish reg issued.It is obviously now on UK plates, so if I buy and miss the brexit deadline a I in trouble VAT wise as this was previously an Irish vehicle. Thanks in advance.

Car99

mikehn wrote: »

Would anyone be able to guide me on how I'm fixed in my little dilemma. I am looking at an old Citroen for sale in the North. It was imported into Southern Ireland from Germany about 10 years ago and 3 years ago was sold on to a guy in Antrim.At the time of importation into the Republic it was correctly processed and an Irish reg issued.It is obviously now on UK plates, so if I buy and miss the brexit deadline a I in trouble VAT wise as this was previously an Irish vehicle. Thanks in advance.

What age is the car now and do you have the old irish reg?

Isambard

mikehn wrote: »

Would anyone be able to guide me on how I'm fixed in my little dilemma. I am looking at an old Citroen for sale in the North. It was imported into Southern Ireland from Germany about 10 years ago and 3 years ago was sold on to a guy in Antrim.At the time of importation into the Republic it was correctly processed and an Irish reg issued.It is obviously now on UK plates, so if I buy and miss the brexit deadline a I in trouble VAT wise as this was previously an Irish vehicle. Thanks in advance.

Is it on NI plates rather than GB ones? There is every likelihood VAT won't apply to imports from NI. Depends if there's a deal I guess

noelf

If you have the Irish reg run it through the NCT website and see does it show up also does the NI seller have the Irish tax book ..

mikehn

Ya, the seller has all the old Irish documentation,interesting idea checking if the old Irish reg is alive.Car is regd in the North. Car is currently 36 years old. Its just that its at the total upper limit of my budget and I just cant afford to get hit by an additional bill as I don't believe that I will be able to get a vrt appointment before the end of the year

macplaxton

mikehn wrote: »

Ya, the seller has all the old Irish documentation,

Regardless, the previous registration (the Irish one) would be on the V5C(NI).

The number/details should still be in the system even if exported and possibly marked dormant.

Going by the date on the V5C(NI) in any event the Revenue are considering NI vehicles to be intra-community transfers and not subject to VAT.

Do a search or contact Revenue, I think if it's already VRT paid (and not refunded) in the past, it doesn't need paying again.

w124man

mikehn wrote: »

Would anyone be able to guide me on how I'm fixed in my little dilemma. I am looking at an old Citroen for sale in the North. It was imported into Southern Ireland from Germany about 10 years ago and 3 years ago was sold on to a guy in Antrim.At the time of importation into the Republic it was correctly processed and an Irish reg issued.It is obviously now on UK plates, so if I buy and miss the brexit deadline a I in trouble VAT wise as this was previously an Irish vehicle. Thanks in advance.

A friend of mine did this with a car previously registered here that went to the UK. After 4 years he brought it back having checked that the Irish reg was still on the system. He paid no VRT or anything.

Ryano87

Isambard wrote: »

hmmm, might be a good idea to park it in front of your local landmark with todays paper and take a photo, might help

That wouldn't prove anything, you could easily hold on to today's paper and take a picture beside a car imported in 6 months time from now

hi5

You could use a smart phone set on the calendar app.
You could also register post pictures to yourself and don't open it when it arrives ( you would want to be quick though, only a few days left);)

Car99

hi5 wrote: »

You could use a smart phone set on the calendar app.
You could also register post pictures to yourself and don't open it when it arrives ( you would want to be quick though, only a few days left);)

Get yourself caught by a speed that'll be a nice picture for proof.