Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

Potential-Monke

km991148 wrote: »

Why has everything got to be declared 'woke'.

Is it belittlement or genuine belief? I don't think it's 'woke', is it?

I never heard of it before the woke stuff started to creep in. All along, it was straight female/male, but the definition of female/male has apparantly changed so a new word was required to separate people by gender... Wait... Segregation by a feature... sounds familiar.

km991148

EddieN75 wrote: »

Why do women have to be called cis women?

They were always called women. Leave the name alone.

And women are still called women. Men are still called men. You are only likely to see cis if you wonder into a thread about gender, where the term somethimes has to be used. I think it was covered in great depth about 5000, 4500, 3000, 1200 and 500 posts ago. Obviously not everyone had to read every post, but in going to sit this one out as well.

km991148

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I never heard of it before the woke stuff started to creep in. All along, it was straight female/male, but the definition of female/male has apparantly changed so a new word was required to separate people by gender... Wait... Segregation by a feature... sounds familiar.

I guess the old thing regarding correlation doesn't imply causation applies here.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It's the fancy woke term for biologically born female who is straight.

Also I'm not entirely sure what sexuality has got to do with cis.

volchitsa

km991148 wrote: »

Why has everything got to be declared 'woke'.

Is it belittlement or genuine belief? I don't think it's 'woke', is it?

Don't know, but as a woman I find it offensive. I'm a woman, not just a sub category of women.

km991148

volchitsa wrote: »

Don't know, but as a woman I find it offensive. I'm a woman, not just a sub category of women.

Ye I can understand that. Personally, I think it's a (slightly clumsy) technical term that no one is ever likely to use outside of a trans/ gender discussion.

They only point I was making is, this isn't a "woke" issue (whatever the hell that is anyway).

volchitsa

km991148 wrote: »

Ye I can understand that. Personally, I think it's a (slightly clumsy) technical term that no one is ever likely to use outside of a trans/ gender discussion.

They only point I was making is, this isn't a "woke" issue (whatever the hell that is anyway).

I don't want it to be used about me even within such a discussion. I'm a biological woman, if it's necessary to make that distinction.

km991148

volchitsa wrote: »

I don't want it to be used about me even within such a discussion. I'm a biological woman, if it's necessary to make that distinction.

I'll try to remember that then..!

volchitsa

volchitsa wrote: »

Don't know, but as a woman I find it offensive. I'm a woman, not just a sub category of women.

Correct.

Trans means opposite. It means one's gender identity is opposite to one's natal sex. And that is absolutely fine. Why not? No worries.
Implicit in the word trans is the reality of a gender identity opposite to one's sex. It acknowledges de facto the existence of the biological, natal sex from the outset which is real and does not change. Otherwise how could one's gender identity be trans?

In fact I sometimes wonder how long before the word trans will be considered transphobic because of its meaning.

Probes

I don't think the term 'woman' has been scrubbed from the English language so we can all rest easy there.

km991148

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Correct.

Trans means opposite. It means one's gender identity is opposite to one's natal sex. And that is absolutely fine. Why not? No worries.
Implicit in the word trans is the reality of a gender identity opposite to one's sex. It acknowledges de facto the existence of the biological, natal sex from the outset which is real and does not change. Otherwise how could one's gender identity be trans?

In fact I sometimes wonder how long before the word trans will be considered transphobic because of its meaning.

We had another poster here that made the exact same argument (almost verbatim!). I'm definitely sitting this one out.

I rarely use the word cis. I don't want to offend anyone. That includes all men and women, including those who are non trans and might have difficulty with the words biological or cis. But I guess there is always scope for offending someone.

suicide_circus

Probes wrote: »

I don't think the term 'woman' has been scrubbed from the English language so we can all rest easy there.

Would you care to define it?

Probes

suicide_circus wrote: »

Would you care to define it?

https://is.gd/J6HUDw

suicide_circus

Probes wrote: »

https://is.gd/J6HUDw

Right so, a woman is an adult human female, great.

A couple of years ago in Sweden policy makers decided to step back and take a closer look at what is going on with so-called ''trans children'' and the affirmation approach which has been pushed so hard by activist organisations, such as Mermaids and Stonewall in the UK.

Over the past while various statements and findings have been made.
At the end of last year for example, part of the summary conclusion of a report by the National Board of Health and Welfare, stated

“The diagnosis of gender dysphoria is increasing in the population, especially among children and young adults, where the proportion of new cases among 13– 17-year-old adolescents registered as female at birth has increased most. The increased rate of new cases will lead to an increasing total number of people diagnosed with gender dysphoria. In light of this, the development will require that health care is appropriately designed and sufficiently robust to ensure comprehensive investigation and treatment. In addition, treatment can be lifelong, which means that people with gender dysphoria need support from the healthcare system for extended time periods. People with gender dysphoria, especially young people, have a high incidence of co-occurring psychiatric diagnoses, self-harm behaviors, and suicide attempts compared to the general population. Co-occurring psychiatric diagnoses among people with gender dysphoria are therefore a factor that needs to be considered more closely during investigation. Suicide mortality rates are higher among people with gender dysphoria compared to the general population. At the same time, people with gender dysphoria who commit suicide have a very high rate of co-occurring serious psychiatric diagnoses, which in themselves sharply increase risks of suicide. Therefore, it is not possible to ascertain to what extent gender dysphoria alone contributes to suicide, since these psychiatric diagnoses often precede suicide.”

https://www.socialstyrelsen.se/globalassets/sharepoint-dokument/artikelkatalog/ovrigt/2020-2-6600.pdf
https://genderreport.ca/the-swedish-u-turn-on-gender-transitioning/

The reason why they decided that suicide could not be firmly linked to dysphoria is because of the comorbidity issues with other health problems. These were found to be

The diagnoses that stand out are depression, anxiety disorders, ADHD and autism. In the group of 13–17-year-olds who were registered as girls at birth and who were diagnosed with gender dysphoria, the comorbidity is greatest. Of these had:

32.4 percent anxiety disorder
28.9 percent some form of depressive disorder
19.4 percent adhd
15.2 percent autism

https://www.vardfokus.se/samhalle/konsdysfori-som-diagnos-okar-kraftigt-bland-unga/

Now, as of April 2021, the Karolinski Institute has issued a ruling that

ended the practice of prescribing puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones for minors under age 16. Hormonal intervention for youth ages 16-18 is still allowed, but can only occur in research settings approved by Sweden’s ethics review board, following a thorough informed consent that discloses the significant risks and uncertainties of hormonal interventions, and considers the minor’s maturity level and ability to provide true informed consent.

https://segm.org/Sweden_ends_use_of_Dutch_protocol

These treatments are potentially fraught with extensive and irreversible adverse consequences such as cardiovascular disease, osteoporosis, infertility, increased cancer risk, and thrombosis. This makes it challenging to assess the risk / benefit for the individual patient, and even more challenging for the minors and their guardians to be in a position of an informed stance regarding these treatments.

https://segm.org/sites/default/files/Karolinska%20_Policy_Statement_English.pdf

GreeBo

km991148 wrote: »

One would like to assume there would be some discretion afforded when the victim of a serious crime is giving witness statement (mistakenly uses the wrong terminology) I asked this before but no one can really say for sure as its pretty obvious there are no legal experts around.

I dont believe it would be a mistake when describing the actions that happened at the time.
Referring to the rapist as a man *now* might be against the law, but when describing the historical facts of the case the victim should of course be allowed to use the pronoun that was correct at the time.

Gender fluidity doesnt change historical facts, Bruce Jenner was an Olympic athlete, Catelyn Jenner wasnt.

GreeBo

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Did they not just get approval to be listed as a charity in the UK. Seems strange if they are a hate group. Whatever a hate group means.

It seems that a "Hate Group" can be defined as a group of people that you hate because they disagree with your opinions.

M_Murphy57

Potential-Monke wrote: »

It's the fancy woke term for biologically born female who is straight.

No requirement to be straight.

EddieN75

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

No requirement to be straight.

It was a thing on twitter recently where straight men who only like straight women and vice versa wanted to be called "super straight" and not get hate because they said they aren't attracted to trans ,etc.

It didn't go down well with the tran community

M_Murphy57

EddieN75 wrote: »

It was a thing on twitter recently where straight men who only like straight women and vice versa wanted to be called "super straight" and not get hate because they said they aren't attracted to trans ,etc.

It didn't go down well with the tran community

That super straight lark was just trolling though !

M_Murphy57

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

That super straight lark was just trolling though !

Yup. "Super straight" was a trolling thing. But also, plenty of trans rights activists say that people who don't want to engage in sexual acts with those of the same sex (if straight) or opposite sex (if gay) are "transphobic".

Trolling though is a much abused term. It has become a catch all silencing technique. Another's opinion aggravates you or shows your own ideology in a poor light - they are therefore a troll and must be quickly dismissed and gotten rid of.
Overuse of the term particularly aims to eliminate satire. I viewed the super straight expression as a satirical thought form. I believe satire is a hugely important act for revealing the nakedness of Emperors.

km991148

isha wrote: »

Trolling though is a much abused term. It has become a catch all silencing technique. Another's opinion aggravates you or shows your own ideology in a poor light - they are therefore a troll and must be quickly dismissed and gotten rid of.
Overuse of the term particularly aims to eliminate satire. I viewed the super straight expression as a satirical thought form. I believe satire is a hugely important act for revealing the nakedness of Emperors.

As always, it (the difference between regular usage, trolling and satire) depends on context - who would have thought it, eh?

keano_afc

The LGB Alliance represent people who are same sex attracted. Its literally in the name. "Trans" is a gender identity and has nothing to do with sexuality.

If the LGB Alliance is a "hate group" because it doesn't represent trans people, so is the RSPCA, by the same logic.

keano_afc

"But the gender doesn't matter".

https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1389873363036815365?s=20

km991148

keano_afc wrote: »

The LGB Alliance represent people who are same sex attracted. Its literally in the name. "Trans" is a gender identity and has nothing to do with sexuality.

If the LGB Alliance is a "hate group" because it doesn't represent trans people, so is the RSPCA, by the same logic.

I will qualify this by stating I didn't use the term "hate group" but the RSPCA example is more than a little bit disingenuous.

The RSPCA (as far as I am aware) haven't been publicly described (I mean by public figures or those in positions of power, not twitter or boards) as being transphobic nor were they formed in response to trans issues nor do they (as far as I am aware) campaign to reduce trans education in schools.

Like I say - I wouldn't necessarily call them a hate group, but to bring the RSPCA in as a comparison is laughable really.

km991148

keano_afc wrote: »

"But the gender doesn't matter".

Neither does the source, apparently.

(But pictures of text from Twitter is not uncommon for this thread!)

keano_afc

keano_afc wrote: »

The LGB Alliance represent people who are same sex attracted. Its literally in the name. "Trans" is a gender identity and has nothing to do with sexuality.

If the LGB Alliance is a "hate group" because it doesn't represent trans people, so is the RSPCA, by the same logic.

The thing that LGB assert is that homosexuality is based on same sex attraction and not based on same gender identity attraction. That's their crime.

Recently I enjoyed reading a blog by LGB Alliance Iceland (LGB Teymid) about why they formed. It was amusing to think of gay people being reported by activists to their parents - very Icelandic given it is such a small country :pac:

https://lesbianandgaynews.com/2021/03/report-from-iceland-lgb-activists-battle-against-the-national-queer-organisation-of-iceland/

What we all had in common was that we were being bullied into submission and pressured to fall in line with everything that our so-called “umbrella” organisation preaches at any given time. We were all members of various Facebook discussion groups that appeared to be places where it was possible to exchange opinions and ideas on topics relating to lesbians and gay men.

Let me start by setting the scene a bit because this is an extraordinary story which needs to be given context.

Iceland is a small country with 350,000 people. 80% of the population lives in Reykjavik and the southwest region. The size of the LGB and T communities is maybe the size of that in Blackpool.

As you can imagine, most of us know each other either directly or indirectly, and many of us are even blood relatives!

The lesbian and gay organisation of Samtökin 78 was founded in 1978. Between 1990 and 2010, gay and lesbian rights progressed remarkably well and we were one of the first nations in the world to legalise same-sex partnerships, marriage and adoption. We also have constitutional protections.

In the last 10 years the organisation has undergone a fundamental change in character. It has stopped being an organisation for LGB people and it has adopted the offensive Queer label. Its official English name is “The National Queer Organisation of Iceland”.

What was once the lesbian and gay liberation front is now an umbrella organisation that has absorbed a range of groups. Not one of these is a lesbian or gay organisation that embraces all gay men or lesbians. The Icelandic organisation has degraded sexuality and homosexuality to the extent that it now conflates kink and sexuality. It classifies BDSM as a sexuality and advocates for constitutional protections for people who are “BDSM sexual”. This move nearly broke up the organisation seven years ago and older lesbians and gay men made an attempt to take back the organisation they founded but to no avail.

Many prominent activists who paved the way in Iceland have now left the organisation, since it has changed beyond recognition. There are many open wounds in the gay and lesbian community, but because of its small size, people do not speak out; their voices are suppressed by the small, but very loud and effective gender and kink lobby.

Any expressions of gender-critical views or complaints about the homophobia of the gender ideologue organisations community are inevitably met with hysterical responses and reporting. Online our detractors engage in bullying of the “disgusting hateful transphobes”. In fact that Icelandic “Glitterati” launched a “network tree” to start silencing us before we had even started LGB teymið. They went so far as to contact some of our parents – and mind you, we are all adult human males and females aged 21 and over!

In the end we were all excommunicated and kicked out of these groups – even though our communication was not disrespectful or unfair in any way. We were not allowed to have any discussions with other LGB people.

All this left us with no option. If we were being denied a platform, we would have to create one. Well, here we are!

There is not a single gay bar, lesbian bar or single-sex space for same-sex attracted people in Iceland. They have all gone. There is one “Queer” bar which is very small. Lesbians meet in private and gay men try to organise themselves to have a single-sex space, but are often smeared with accusations of transphobia if the idea is to have male-only events.

Homosexuality is nothing else than same sex attraction. Those who cannot accept that are homophobic. It is really that simple. It has to stop.

After we announced the launch of our group, many gay men and lesbian women contacted us and encouraged us to continue. A few Icelandic parliamentarians have started to follow us and we hope more will. We do not get many likes or follows on our social media platforms, but we see the statistics. We are being widely read and our posts reach a large audience. Unfortunately likes can be traced to users, which makes it problematic for some to engage with our posts. We are in a position similar to that of Samtökin 78, decades ago, when content from the organisation was posted in unmarked envelopes to ensure discretion.

One eyed Jack

keano_afc wrote: »

"But the gender doesn't matter".

The 84% rise refers to in the number of reported cases of child sexual abuse between 2015 and 2019, where the perpetrator was female -

Between 2015 and 2019, the numbers of reported cases of female-perpetrated child sexual abuse to police in England and Wales rose from 1,249 to 2,297 - an increase of 84%.

Female child sex abuse 'remains taboo' while victims struggle

The rest of the statement in that tweet is just nonsense.

Marcusm

GreeBo wrote: »

I dont believe it would be a mistake when describing the actions that happened at the time.
Referring to the rapist as a man *now* might be against the law, but when describing the historical facts of the case the victim should of course be allowed to use the pronoun that was correct at the time.

Gender fluidity doesnt change historical facts, Bruce Jenner was an Olympic skier, Catelyn Jenner wasnt.

Mostly true, except Bruce Jenner was a decathlete.

mohawk

GreeBo wrote: »

I dont believe it would be a mistake when describing the actions that happened at the time.
Referring to the rapist as a man *now* might be against the law, but when describing the historical facts of the case the victim should of course be allowed to use the pronoun that was correct at the time.

Gender fluidity doesnt change historical facts, Bruce Jenner was an Olympic skier, Catelyn Jenner wasnt.

Getting away from the crime aspect of it all. I know someone for years who is transgender. Prior to transition any memories are associated with the persons original name, but anything after the transition I can easily associate the new name to those memories without having to correct myself. Maybe it’s just me who has to check myself before I speak.