Pandemic Care Workers set for Deportation from Ireland

Cosmo Kramer

This feels like a very US/UK style approach from us - as a country surely we can and should do more in these cases?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/15/europe/ireland-migrant-healthcare-workers-deportation-intl/index.html

Eric Cartman

yeah.. this is a super hard edge case. If we were to be compassionate based on this then we'd open the Swiss cheese laws to even more rule breaking.

Overstayed a visa, needs to be deported. If we took the policy to actually enforce we'd have 1000 above board deportations for every one 'unfortunate case'

Gatling

Don't care for the sob story ,she knew the rules and got caught and then tried to claim various protections all were rejected ,
She need to go

This whole looking for lgbt sympathy too just shows any excuse to stay

Appalling carry on.

Gervais08

Eric Cartman wrote: »

yeah.. this is a super hard edge case. If we were to be compassionate based on this then we'd open the Swiss cheese laws to even more rule breaking.

Overstayed a visa, needs to be deported. If we took the policy to actually enforce we'd have 1000 above board deportations for every one 'unfortunate case'

Sorry I agree - zero sympathy here.

It’s not illegal to be a lesbian in Zimbabwe for one thing.

Gervais08

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

This feels like a very US/UK style approach from us - as a country surely we can and should do more in these cases?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/15/europe/ireland-migrant-healthcare-workers-deportation-intl/index.html

No - we need to kick out overstayers no matter how good their sob story.

Gervais08

Gervais08 wrote: »

It’s not illegal to be a lesbian in Zimbabwe for one thing.

Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean that life is a box of fluffy ducks.

LGBTQ people are treated abysmally there and the suicide rate is testament to that. Zimbabweans make up the largest number of foreign migrants in South Africa, many of them being LGBTQ folk fleeing persecution.

Gervais08

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean that life is a box of fluffy ducks.

LGBTQ people are treated abysmally there and the suicide rate is testament to that. Zimbabweans make up the largest number of foreign migrants in South Africa, many of them being LGBTQ folk fleeing persecution.

You also assume she is telling the truth.

ILoveYourVibes

Gervais08 wrote: »

Sorry I agree - zero sympathy here.

It’s not illegal to be a lesbian in Zimbabwe for one thing.

Yes it is.

Laws passed in 2006 criminalized any actions perceived as homosexual. By both men and women.

The Zimbabwean Government has made it a criminal offense for two people of the same sex to hold hands, hug, or kiss. This applies to both genders.

This is apart and on top of anti sodomy laws. Which obv are intended to be applied only to men.

Prior to 2006 the law solely focused on men. This has since changed.

Gervais08

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Yes it is.

Laws passed in 2006 criminalized any actions perceived as homosexual. By both men and women.

The Zimbabwean Government has made it a criminal offense for two people of the same sex to hold hands, hug, or kiss. This applies to both genders.

This is apart and on top of anti sodomy laws. Which obv are intended to be applied only to men.

Prior to 2006 the law solely focused on men. This has since changed.

You’re wrong but I’d like an explanation from her as to how many gay and lesbian friendly nations she arrived in before getting here.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean that life is a box of fluffy ducks.

LGBTQ people are treated abysmally there and the suicide rate is testament to that. Zimbabweans make up the largest number of foreign migrants in South Africa, many of them being LGBTQ folk fleeing persecution.

It is illegal to be a lesbian in zimbabwe.

It is illegal for any two people of the same gender to kiss or hug. Or do anything even perceived as homosexual. For both genders.

There are hopes now that mugabe is gone this will change. But its currently still in place.

Mugabe tortured gay people.

ILoveYourVibes

Gervais08 wrote: »

You’re wrong but I’d like an explanation from her as to how many gay and lesbian friendly nations she arrived in before getting here.

I am NOT wrong.

The "sexual deviancy" law was one of 15 additions to Zimbabwe's Criminal Code quietly passed in Parliamen

The sections involving gays and lesbians are part of an overhaul of the country's sodomy laws.

And they DO mention lesbians.

And any govt issuing travel advice will inform you that under Zimbabwe law ...ALL sex acts between same genders are illegal.

Don't give out false info about this you could endanger someone.

If you want to be technical ....saying you are gay ..is not illegal. However for a woman to have sex with another woman IS illegal.


In July 2006, the government has made it a criminal offense for two people of the same sex to hold hands, hug, or kiss .

That is absolutely the law currently in zimbabwe.


Criminal Law Act 2006. Section 73

A 2006 revision to the country's criminal code expands the penalty for sodomy to include acts that
''would be regarded by a
reasonable person as an indecent act.
”

Numerous lesbians have been arrested in zimbabwe ROUTINELY . llen Chademana is just one of those.


Your argument is in EXTREMELY bad faith considering both the Canadian govt and US govt have issued legal advice to lesbians NOT to travel to zimbabwe.

Gervais08

Gervais08 wrote: »

You also assume she is telling the truth.

I haven't assumed anything, I simply addressed your nonsense post.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It is illegal to be a lesbian in zimbabwe.

It is illegal for any two people of the same gender to kiss or hug. Or do anything even perceived as homosexual. For both genders.

There are hopes now that mugabe is gone this will change. But its currently still in place.

Mugabe tortured gay people.

Just admit when you're wrong. Jesus.

ILoveYourVibes

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Just admit when you're wrong. Jesus.

That is wiki.


It does apply to lesbians.

As they have been prosecuted. And targeted for harassment by the govt.

I quoted the actual law to you and gave you the year ...you can look it up.

Besides EVEN if what you had said was TRUE ...Ireland technically had no laws against lesbians ..you couldn't live here if you were one though. Could you?
You admit you were wrong.

You are also racist and ungrateful.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That is wiki.


It does apply to lesbians.

As they have been prosecuted. And targeted for harassment by the govt.

I quoted the actual law to you and gave you the year ...you can look it up.

Besides EVEN if what you had said was TRUE ...Ireland technically had no laws against lesbians ..you couldn't live here if you were one though. Could you?
You admit you were wrong.

You are also racist and ungrateful.

How am I racist and ungrateful??

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That is wiki.


It does apply to lesbians.

As they have been prosecuted. And targeted for harassment by the govt.

I quoted the actual law to you and gave you the year ...you can look it up.

Besides EVEN if what you had said was TRUE ...Ireland technically had no laws against lesbians ..you couldn't live here if you were one though. Could you?
You admit you were wrong.

You are also racist and ungrateful.

Lesbians might defacto be targeted but de jure they aren't.

Yamanoto

Their claims for asylum haven't stood up to fair and reasonable consideration. As such, they should be deported as soon as is practicable.

Meanwhile, the lot of those most genuinely in need of international protection is made all the harder by the conveyor belt of chancers who habitually clog up the system with entirely spurious claims.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

How am I racist and ungrateful??

Well?

ILoveYourVibes

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

How am I racist and ungrateful??

I am so done arguing with people like you.

Lesbians might defacto be targeted but de jure they aren't.

Face palm.



i would say de jure law is the wrong term ....statutory law is probably best.

Case law in zimbabwe has prosecuted lesbians. I would not like to use the term de jure ...as de facto indicates lack of legitimacy ...whereas case law does not. De jure can refer to case law or common law not just statute law. In fact DE JURE and DE FACTO are OLD common law terms.

Also YES de facto law ....Or the de facto situation is that lesbians end up in jail...the exact CHARGE might ..possession of pornography etc. But its really for being gay.

In August 2012, 44 members of the organisation Lesbian and Gay Rights in Zimbabwe were arrested.

Some of these were women.

Its not just sex acts that are illegal. Possession of gay porn etc.

Sexuality is expressed in different ways.


Common law prevents gay men and, to a lesser extent, lesbians from fully expressing their sexuality. Whatever meandering way you want to look at it ...the law makes life harder and dangers for lesbians. Its bad faith to say otherwise.

DE JURE doesn't just refer to statutory law. It refers to common law and case law too.



SO de jure ...yes they are

And if it were only de facto ...its STILL prosecution..and she would not have been lying.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am so done arguing with people like you.

How am I racist and who am I racist against?

Normal One

[Deleted User] wrote: »

LGBTQ people are treated abysmally there and the suicide rate is testament to that. Zimbabweans make up the largest number of foreign migrants in South Africa, many of them being LGBTQ folk fleeing persecution.

That's mad, she must have got the the crossroad with signs pointing "Ireland 9000km" one way, and "South Africa 100km" the other way, and manged to find her way here.

Frankie Machine

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

DE JURE [/B]doesn't just refer to statutory law. It refers to common law and case law too.

I thought de jure meant 'in accordance with' law.

As opposed to a kind of law, whether statutory, case, or common.

ILoveYourVibes

Frankie Machine wrote: »

I thought de jure meant 'in accordance with' law.

As opposed to a kind of law, whether statutory, case, or common.

You are correct.

Which is why i suggested its the wrong term.

There are numerous ways lesbians can be arrested pertaining to their sexuality in accordance with the law.

Police raid lesbian activists all the time. They come up with some law its in accordance with. Pornography etc.

De facto ....gives the impression of illegal ...but happens.

By the way there is a lot that DOES go on de facto in zimbabwe ...including human rights crimes like torture. Partic for gay people.

Donald Trump

Seems this person was working in a care home. Not as some kind of medical profession.

She just happened to string out her application long enough to reach the period when the pandemic was here. She could have also been working stacking shelves in Tesco, been denied asylum and then the pandemic hit and described herself as a pandemic worker.

Nothing against either care home workers or shelf stackers. But when you read a sensationalist headline like that and it doesn't match up to the story, then it makes you question how accurate or honest the rest of the story it....

Gatling

Donald Trump wrote: »

Seems this person was working in a care home. Not as some kind of medical profession.

She just happened to string out her application long enough to reach the period when the pandemic was here. She could have also been working stacking shelves in Tesco, been denied asylum and then the pandemic hit and described herself as a pandemic worker.

Nothing against either care home workers or shelf stackers. But when you read a sensationalist headline like that and it doesn't match up to the story, then it makes you question how accurate or honest the rest of the story it....

She's actually being on several Radio programmes recently saying she deserves to stay based off her doing work in a care home

Donald Trump

Gatling wrote: »

She's actually being on several Radio programmes recently saying she deserves to stay based off her doing work in a care home

The article says that another one got a job as security in a care home. Do they think they should be allowed to stay now because their rejected asylum claim happened to come at a time that allowed them to stay here for a pandemic.



To be honest, I'd be concerned at the fact that a person coming from abroad, possibly with some bogus details (as in they applied for asylum and were here long enough to be allowed to work while their case was decided and their story was found not to be eligible for asylum), could be given a job in security close to vulnerable people.



Are there no background checks mandatory for these positions? I have to get garda clearance to be involved with training a club (which has no minors) and it involves me putting down every address in every country I lived in. My details would be fairly traceable and verifiable though.

ILoveYourVibes

Gatling wrote: »

She's actually being on several Radio programmes recently saying she deserves to stay based off her doing work in a care home

Are there no background checks mandatory for these positions?

Of course there are.

Seems this person was working in a care home. Not as some kind of medical profession.

Yes ..it seems she was some kind of care worker. She seems to have studied as a health care assistant before she got the job . And then got a job as a care worker.

agoodpunt

Seems like she got appeal after appeal and failed saw this on CNN i"reland deports covid care worker" gives a slant that makes us look bad to be fair we are more lenient than most countries.
She should go but when the process makes it so long and hard to remove any assylum seeker (most are economic migrants with no docs) once they get in am sure she will feel hard done by especially when if she gets to stay she can open the door to family and relatives to many state supports.

ILoveYourVibes

Donald Trump wrote: »

The article says that another one got a job as security in a care home. Do they think they should be allowed to stay now because their rejected asylum claim happened to come at a time that allowed them to stay here for a pandemic.

No it says lily studied as a healthcare assistant. And got a job as a health care worker. And constance ...worked as a health carer.

Healthcare worker Constance -- whose name has also been changed, as she fears speaking out could affect her case -- works in a different nursing home, but faces a similar situation

Lily -- whose name has been changed for her safety -- said she fled anti-LGBTQ persecution in her native Zimbabwe and came to Ireland in 2016. She wanted to help others, so studied to qualify as a healthcare assistant; she landed a job as a care worker at a nursing home last year, and hopes to study for her nursing degree in future.

Donald Trump

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Of course there are.

How reliable do you think the checks might be if a person lands and says "I am fleeing threats of death from the local warlord in Northern Nigeria. I used to work there as a simple shopkeeper".


What do the guards do? Skype the local warlord for verification?



If someone is coming and claiming asylum, then, if true, they are escaping some kind of hostile environment. No?

quokula

Normal One wrote: »

That's mad, she must have got the the crossroad with signs pointing "Ireland 9000km" one way, and "South Africa 100km" the other way, and manged to find her way here.

It's amazing how all those Irish emigrant in the US, Australia or elsewhere never noticed that the UK was closer.

Frankie Machine

quokula wrote: »

It's amazing how all those Irish emigrant in the US, Australia or elsewhere never noticed that the UK was closer.

Superficial whataboutery parallels don't impress.

At all.

Kraftwerk

quokula wrote: »

It's amazing how all those Irish emigrant in the US, Australia or elsewhere never noticed that the UK was closer.

So you're saying she's not fleeing persecution she's an economic migrant looking for the best place to get a good job?

I agree. Her story is bull****.

JustAThought

How can she have passed any garda vetting or references or basic background checks needed to work with vulnerable people if to start with she was bloody here illegally?

Who the f* is overseeing these ‘care’ of vulnerable adults industries and how many more elder abuse scandals must we have before something is actually done?

ILoveYourVibes

Donald Trump wrote: »

How reliable do you think the checks might be if a person lands and says "I am fleeing threats of death from the local warlord in Northern Nigeria. I used to work there as a simple shopkeeper".


What do the guards do? Skype the local warlord for verification?



If someone is coming and claiming asylum, then, if true, they are escaping some kind of hostile environment. No?

So you admit there are local warlords then?

I am not sure what nigeria has to do with zimbabwe ....none of what you mention is pertaining to this case.

ILoveYourVibes

JustAThought wrote: »

How can she have passed any garda vetting or references or basic background checks needed to work with vulnerable people if to start with she was bloody here illegally?

Who the f* is overseeing these ‘care’ of vulnerable adults industries and how many more elder abuse scandals must we have before something is actually done?

SO now you are accusing her of elder abuse without any evidence. Have there been any accusations of such?

Does any Irish person want to go and take this job ..at those wages?

If we deported all these workers our health service would collapse and it would be just as dumb as brexit.

Gatling

JustAThought wrote: »

How can she have passed any garda vetting or references or basic background checks needed to work with vulnerable people if to start with she was bloody here illegally?

Considering we have had international drug dealers , murders , terrorists and rapists all living here despite having convictions and asylum in other countries yet they arrive here with new identities , unqualified medical personnel too

Can we actually do background checks in Africa absolutely not no ,but yet you can be employed looking after supporting vulnerable people .

But if I can't prove 100% who I am and where I come from I can't get a job certain sectors ,
Odd

Gatling

Gatling wrote: »

Considering we have had international drug dealers , murders , terrorists and rapists all living here despite having convictions and asylum in other countries yet they arrive here with new identities , unqualified medical personnel too

Can we actually do background checks in Africa absolutely not no ,but yet you can be employed looking after supporting vulnerable people .

But if I can't prove 100% who I am and where I come from I can't get a job certain sectors ,
Odd

Why not?

Gervais08

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

So you admit there are local warlords then?

I am not sure what nigeria has to do with zimbabwe ....none of what you mention is pertaining to this case.

Your bleeding heart, believe everyone nonsense attitude got one poor woman sexually assaulted in her bed in a care home - there is no way you can background check these scammers and they should be kicked out not given access to our most vulnerable!!.

Donald Trump

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

So you admit there are local warlords then?

I am not sure what nigeria has to do with zimbabwe ....none of what you mention is pertaining to this case.

You are very naive to think that, if a person wants to falsely claim asylum, that they won't think of saying they are from somewhere they are not from.




It was well documented during the peak in the early 2000's that one of the main difficulties was determining where chancers were actually from so that they could be deported.

Chancer gets off a plane, burns their passport, says they are from Northern Nigeria and the local muslim militia killed all their family. Immigration interview them and they don't know any of the local languages or know any landmarks or even any basic geography of the area. So they are denied asylum .... but where do you deport them to? You can't deport them to a random country. Nigeria won't take them because they aren't actually a citizen there.


What system are you proposing? Any female who wants to come and live in Ireland and be entitled to all the benefits here just has to indicate that she is partial to a bit of gee? Hardly a robust system against chancers now is it?

Gervais08

Donald Trump wrote: »

You are very naive to think that, if a person wants to falsely claim asylum, that they won't think of saying they are from somewhere they are not from.




It was well documented during the peak in the early 2000's that one of the main difficulties was determining where chancers were actually from so that they could be deported.

Chancer gets off a plane, burns their passport, says they are from Northern Nigeria and the local muslim militia killed all their family. Immigration interview them and they don't know any of the local languages or know any landmarks or even any basic geography of the area. So they are denied asylum .... but where do you deport them to? You can't deport them to a random country. Nigeria won't take them because they aren't actually a citizen there.


What system are you proposing? Any female who wants to come and live in Ireland and be entitled to all the benefits here just has to indicate that she is partial to a bit of gee? Hardly a robust system against chancers now is it?

I know you’ve you’re work troubles at the min Donnie lad but allow me to say “partial to a bit of gee” made me spit out me tay. Kudos!!

Gatling

Donald Trump wrote: »

It was well documented during the peak in the early 2000's that one of the main difficulties was determining where chancers were actually from so that they could be deported.

Chancer gets off a plane, burns their passport, says they are from Northern Nigeria and the local muslim militia killed all their family. Immigration interview them and they don't know any of the local languages or know any landmarks or even any basic geography of the area. So they are denied asylum .... but where do you deport them to? You can't deport them to a random country. Nigeria won't take them because they aren't actually a citizen there.

There was a more recent case of a chap declared he was from a certain part of Kenya ,but couldn't speak English so when he many appeals got to court they had to get a Kenyan interpreter on a phone to translate for this Kenyan chap claiming asylum and it's multiple appeals ,but the interpreter couldn't understand him and had to tell the court he didn't recognise the dialect as Kenyan at all turned out the Spoofer was Nigerian

Donald Trump

Gatling wrote: »

There was a more recent case of a chap declared he was from a certain part of Kenya ,but couldn't speak English so when he many appeals got to court they had to get a Kenyan interpreter on a phone to translate for this Kenyan chap claiming asylum and it's multiple appeals ,but the interpreter couldn't understand him and had to tell the court he didn't recognise the dialect as Kenyan at all turned out the Spoofer was Nigerian

Ah yeah, but the poor divil should have been given asylum because there actually might be warlords in that part of Kenya he falsely claimed to be from


Or at least I think that is what other posters are saying ......



Anyway, the relevance was to my point on the background checks. They can't do it at all for people like that.

Gervais08

Donald Trump wrote: »

Ah yeah, but the poor divil should have been given asylum because there actually might be warlords in that part of Kenya he falsely claimed to be from


Or at least I think that is what other posters are saying ......



Anyway, the relevance was to my point on the background checks. They can't do it at all for people like that.

One watch of Di Caprio in Blood Diamond and they believe any old pony.

If your background can’t be proved - out you go.

s1ippy

Racist individuals trawling this thread for things to jump on her about: what is your huge contribution to society that makes you indispensable, or do you feel that the right to be here is endowed entirely due to the country on your passport and not the content of your character or sacrifice and ambition?

Hi government, I'm the immigration office now and we're going to deport all the useless middle aged men and import lots of hard working Zimbabwean lesbians.

Gatling

Gervais08 wrote: »

One watch of Di Caprio in Blood Diamond and they believe any old pony.

If your background can’t be proved - out you go.

There is case in the UK where a Rwandan known to have slaughtered thousands was given asylum even walks around with his own personal body guards ,

But can you imagine a case now where you just have to claim you work in a care home and your entitled to be guaranteed asylum I'd imagine the multiple thousands of bogus asylum seekers will be queing up to volunteer at care homes so they can given full asylum

"The current Zimbabwe Criminal Law (Codification and Reform) Act makes specific sexual acts illegal, but falls short of criminalising LGBTI status."

([url]Https://www.dandc.eu/en/article/homophobia-zimbabwe-hurts-mental-health-lgbti-people)[/url]

You are wrong vibes. It's not a Criminal offence

Donald Trump

Gervais08 wrote: »

One watch of Di Caprio in Blood Diamond and they believe any old pony.

If your background can’t be proved - out you go.

Well the complication is that if someone is genuinely from an area of conflict etc. then they might not be able to access documentation to prove it.


My point was more narrow on the question of background checks for those positions. If they can't be absolutely verified then they shouldn't be allowed to work in those positions.

s1ippy

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

"The current Zimbabwe Criminal Law (Codification and Reform) Act makes specific sexual acts illegal, but falls short of criminalising LGBTI status."

([url]Https://www.dandc.eu/en/article/homophobia-zimbabwe-hurts-mental-health-lgbti-people)[/url]

You are wrong vibes. It's not a Criminal offence

That's some splitting of hairs you're at there.

suicide_circus

Part of a functioning asylum process involves some people not being granted asylum.