Pandemic Care Workers set for Deportation from Ireland

Cosmo Kramer

This feels like a very US/UK style approach from us - as a country surely we can and should do more in these cases?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/15/europe/ireland-migrant-healthcare-workers-deportation-intl/index.html

Eric Cartman

yeah.. this is a super hard edge case. If we were to be compassionate based on this then we'd open the Swiss cheese laws to even more rule breaking.

Overstayed a visa, needs to be deported. If we took the policy to actually enforce we'd have 1000 above board deportations for every one 'unfortunate case'

Gatling

Don't care for the sob story ,she knew the rules and got caught and then tried to claim various protections all were rejected ,
She need to go

This whole looking for lgbt sympathy too just shows any excuse to stay

Appalling carry on.

Gervais08

Eric Cartman wrote: »

yeah.. this is a super hard edge case. If we were to be compassionate based on this then we'd open the Swiss cheese laws to even more rule breaking.

Overstayed a visa, needs to be deported. If we took the policy to actually enforce we'd have 1000 above board deportations for every one 'unfortunate case'

Sorry I agree - zero sympathy here.

It’s not illegal to be a lesbian in Zimbabwe for one thing.

Gervais08

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

This feels like a very US/UK style approach from us - as a country surely we can and should do more in these cases?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/15/europe/ireland-migrant-healthcare-workers-deportation-intl/index.html

No - we need to kick out overstayers no matter how good their sob story.

Gervais08

Gervais08 wrote: »

It’s not illegal to be a lesbian in Zimbabwe for one thing.

Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean that life is a box of fluffy ducks.

LGBTQ people are treated abysmally there and the suicide rate is testament to that. Zimbabweans make up the largest number of foreign migrants in South Africa, many of them being LGBTQ folk fleeing persecution.

Gervais08

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean that life is a box of fluffy ducks.

LGBTQ people are treated abysmally there and the suicide rate is testament to that. Zimbabweans make up the largest number of foreign migrants in South Africa, many of them being LGBTQ folk fleeing persecution.

You also assume she is telling the truth.

ILoveYourVibes

Gervais08 wrote: »

Sorry I agree - zero sympathy here.

It’s not illegal to be a lesbian in Zimbabwe for one thing.

Yes it is.

Laws passed in 2006 criminalized any actions perceived as homosexual. By both men and women.

The Zimbabwean Government has made it a criminal offense for two people of the same sex to hold hands, hug, or kiss. This applies to both genders.

This is apart and on top of anti sodomy laws. Which obv are intended to be applied only to men.

Prior to 2006 the law solely focused on men. This has since changed.

Gervais08

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Yes it is.

Laws passed in 2006 criminalized any actions perceived as homosexual. By both men and women.

The Zimbabwean Government has made it a criminal offense for two people of the same sex to hold hands, hug, or kiss. This applies to both genders.

This is apart and on top of anti sodomy laws. Which obv are intended to be applied only to men.

Prior to 2006 the law solely focused on men. This has since changed.

You’re wrong but I’d like an explanation from her as to how many gay and lesbian friendly nations she arrived in before getting here.

ILoveYourVibes

Deleted User wrote: »

Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean that life is a box of fluffy ducks.

LGBTQ people are treated abysmally there and the suicide rate is testament to that. Zimbabweans make up the largest number of foreign migrants in South Africa, many of them being LGBTQ folk fleeing persecution.

It is illegal to be a lesbian in zimbabwe.

It is illegal for any two people of the same gender to kiss or hug. Or do anything even perceived as homosexual. For both genders.

There are hopes now that mugabe is gone this will change. But its currently still in place.

Mugabe tortured gay people.

ILoveYourVibes

Gervais08 wrote: »

You’re wrong but I’d like an explanation from her as to how many gay and lesbian friendly nations she arrived in before getting here.

I am NOT wrong.

The "sexual deviancy" law was one of 15 additions to Zimbabwe's Criminal Code quietly passed in Parliamen

The sections involving gays and lesbians are part of an overhaul of the country's sodomy laws.

And they DO mention lesbians.

And any govt issuing travel advice will inform you that under Zimbabwe law ...ALL sex acts between same genders are illegal.

Don't give out false info about this you could endanger someone.

If you want to be technical ....saying you are gay ..is not illegal. However for a woman to have sex with another woman IS illegal.


In July 2006, the government has made it a criminal offense for two people of the same sex to hold hands, hug, or kiss .

That is absolutely the law currently in zimbabwe.


Criminal Law Act 2006. Section 73

A 2006 revision to the country's criminal code expands the penalty for sodomy to include acts that
''would be regarded by a
reasonable person as an indecent act.
”

Numerous lesbians have been arrested in zimbabwe ROUTINELY . llen Chademana is just one of those.


Your argument is in EXTREMELY bad faith considering both the Canadian govt and US govt have issued legal advice to lesbians NOT to travel to zimbabwe.

Gervais08

Gervais08 wrote: »

You also assume she is telling the truth.

I haven't assumed anything, I simply addressed your nonsense post.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It is illegal to be a lesbian in zimbabwe.

It is illegal for any two people of the same gender to kiss or hug. Or do anything even perceived as homosexual. For both genders.

There are hopes now that mugabe is gone this will change. But its currently still in place.

Mugabe tortured gay people.

Just admit when you're wrong. Jesus.

ILoveYourVibes

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Just admit when you're wrong. Jesus.

That is wiki.


It does apply to lesbians.

As they have been prosecuted. And targeted for harassment by the govt.

I quoted the actual law to you and gave you the year ...you can look it up.

Besides EVEN if what you had said was TRUE ...Ireland technically had no laws against lesbians ..you couldn't live here if you were one though. Could you?
You admit you were wrong.

You are also racist and ungrateful.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That is wiki.


It does apply to lesbians.

As they have been prosecuted. And targeted for harassment by the govt.

I quoted the actual law to you and gave you the year ...you can look it up.

Besides EVEN if what you had said was TRUE ...Ireland technically had no laws against lesbians ..you couldn't live here if you were one though. Could you?
You admit you were wrong.

You are also racist and ungrateful.

How am I racist and ungrateful??

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That is wiki.


It does apply to lesbians.

As they have been prosecuted. And targeted for harassment by the govt.

I quoted the actual law to you and gave you the year ...you can look it up.

Besides EVEN if what you had said was TRUE ...Ireland technically had no laws against lesbians ..you couldn't live here if you were one though. Could you?
You admit you were wrong.

You are also racist and ungrateful.

Lesbians might defacto be targeted but de jure they aren't.

Yamanoto

Their claims for asylum haven't stood up to fair and reasonable consideration. As such, they should be deported as soon as is practicable.

Meanwhile, the lot of those most genuinely in need of international protection is made all the harder by the conveyor belt of chancers who habitually clog up the system with entirely spurious claims.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

How am I racist and ungrateful??

Well?

ILoveYourVibes

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

How am I racist and ungrateful??

I am so done arguing with people like you.

Lesbians might defacto be targeted but de jure they aren't.

Face palm.



i would say de jure law is the wrong term ....statutory law is probably best.

Case law in zimbabwe has prosecuted lesbians. I would not like to use the term de jure ...as de facto indicates lack of legitimacy ...whereas case law does not. De jure can refer to case law or common law not just statute law. In fact DE JURE and DE FACTO are OLD common law terms.

Also YES de facto law ....Or the de facto situation is that lesbians end up in jail...the exact CHARGE might ..possession of pornography etc. But its really for being gay.

In August 2012, 44 members of the organisation Lesbian and Gay Rights in Zimbabwe were arrested.

Some of these were women.

Its not just sex acts that are illegal. Possession of gay porn etc.

Sexuality is expressed in different ways.


Common law prevents gay men and, to a lesser extent, lesbians from fully expressing their sexuality. Whatever meandering way you want to look at it ...the law makes life harder and dangers for lesbians. Its bad faith to say otherwise.

DE JURE doesn't just refer to statutory law. It refers to common law and case law too.



SO de jure ...yes they are

And if it were only de facto ...its STILL prosecution..and she would not have been lying.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I am so done arguing with people like you.

How am I racist and who am I racist against?

Normal One

[Deleted User] wrote: »

LGBTQ people are treated abysmally there and the suicide rate is testament to that. Zimbabweans make up the largest number of foreign migrants in South Africa, many of them being LGBTQ folk fleeing persecution.

That's mad, she must have got the the crossroad with signs pointing "Ireland 9000km" one way, and "South Africa 100km" the other way, and manged to find her way here.

Frankie Machine

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

DE JURE [/B]doesn't just refer to statutory law. It refers to common law and case law too.

I thought de jure meant 'in accordance with' law.

As opposed to a kind of law, whether statutory, case, or common.

ILoveYourVibes

Frankie Machine wrote: »

I thought de jure meant 'in accordance with' law.

As opposed to a kind of law, whether statutory, case, or common.

You are correct.

Which is why i suggested its the wrong term.

There are numerous ways lesbians can be arrested pertaining to their sexuality in accordance with the law.

Police raid lesbian activists all the time. They come up with some law its in accordance with. Pornography etc.

De facto ....gives the impression of illegal ...but happens.

By the way there is a lot that DOES go on de facto in zimbabwe ...including human rights crimes like torture. Partic for gay people.

Donald Trump

Seems this person was working in a care home. Not as some kind of medical profession.

She just happened to string out her application long enough to reach the period when the pandemic was here. She could have also been working stacking shelves in Tesco, been denied asylum and then the pandemic hit and described herself as a pandemic worker.

Nothing against either care home workers or shelf stackers. But when you read a sensationalist headline like that and it doesn't match up to the story, then it makes you question how accurate or honest the rest of the story it....

Gatling

Donald Trump wrote: »

Seems this person was working in a care home. Not as some kind of medical profession.

She just happened to string out her application long enough to reach the period when the pandemic was here. She could have also been working stacking shelves in Tesco, been denied asylum and then the pandemic hit and described herself as a pandemic worker.

Nothing against either care home workers or shelf stackers. But when you read a sensationalist headline like that and it doesn't match up to the story, then it makes you question how accurate or honest the rest of the story it....

She's actually being on several Radio programmes recently saying she deserves to stay based off her doing work in a care home

Donald Trump

Gatling wrote: »

She's actually being on several Radio programmes recently saying she deserves to stay based off her doing work in a care home

The article says that another one got a job as security in a care home. Do they think they should be allowed to stay now because their rejected asylum claim happened to come at a time that allowed them to stay here for a pandemic.



To be honest, I'd be concerned at the fact that a person coming from abroad, possibly with some bogus details (as in they applied for asylum and were here long enough to be allowed to work while their case was decided and their story was found not to be eligible for asylum), could be given a job in security close to vulnerable people.



Are there no background checks mandatory for these positions? I have to get garda clearance to be involved with training a club (which has no minors) and it involves me putting down every address in every country I lived in. My details would be fairly traceable and verifiable though.

ILoveYourVibes

Gatling wrote: »

She's actually being on several Radio programmes recently saying she deserves to stay based off her doing work in a care home

Are there no background checks mandatory for these positions?

Of course there are.

Seems this person was working in a care home. Not as some kind of medical profession.

Yes ..it seems she was some kind of care worker. She seems to have studied as a health care assistant before she got the job . And then got a job as a care worker.

agoodpunt

Seems like she got appeal after appeal and failed saw this on CNN i"reland deports covid care worker" gives a slant that makes us look bad to be fair we are more lenient than most countries.
She should go but when the process makes it so long and hard to remove any assylum seeker (most are economic migrants with no docs) once they get in am sure she will feel hard done by especially when if she gets to stay she can open the door to family and relatives to many state supports.

ILoveYourVibes

Donald Trump wrote: »

The article says that another one got a job as security in a care home. Do they think they should be allowed to stay now because their rejected asylum claim happened to come at a time that allowed them to stay here for a pandemic.

No it says lily studied as a healthcare assistant. And got a job as a health care worker. And constance ...worked as a health carer.

Healthcare worker Constance -- whose name has also been changed, as she fears speaking out could affect her case -- works in a different nursing home, but faces a similar situation

Lily -- whose name has been changed for her safety -- said she fled anti-LGBTQ persecution in her native Zimbabwe and came to Ireland in 2016. She wanted to help others, so studied to qualify as a healthcare assistant; she landed a job as a care worker at a nursing home last year, and hopes to study for her nursing degree in future.

Donald Trump

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Of course there are.

How reliable do you think the checks might be if a person lands and says "I am fleeing threats of death from the local warlord in Northern Nigeria. I used to work there as a simple shopkeeper".


What do the guards do? Skype the local warlord for verification?



If someone is coming and claiming asylum, then, if true, they are escaping some kind of hostile environment. No?