How to fix hole in wall around double plug

Bullocks

SuprSi wrote: »

Thanks for all the suggestions, I really appreciate it. This is our first house, and this is the first time I've had to pay for an electrician to do any work. He's already been paid, and to be honest, I just assumed that, as he's an electrician, he does the wiring and if some work needs to be tidied up as a result of my ask, it's up to me. I'm disappointed to learn that's not the case and he should've done a better job!

To answer some of the questions, it's red brick with plasterboard. The left-hand box is not affixed to anything on the right-hand side, which was the bit I was most surprised with immediately afterwards, so it's difficult to plug something in and out (takes 2 hands basically). He is a registered electrician, the work-buddy of the actual electrical I hired who was doing a different bit of work in the house at the same time.

The guy I hired is due back in a week or 2 to do something else so I'll show it to him and ask his thoughts before I do anything. Thanks again.

Don't feel disappointed . I don't know too many electricians that patch up plaster after themselves.
I will admit he butchered the wall a bit as opposed to cutting a nice opening to recieve the box but maybe the slab was already in poor condition before he went at it and he couldn't help what came away from the wall when he went cutting it out.
He may have left the face plate of the socket loose so a plasterer can fill around the box and just tighten it up after it's done, the main box is probably screwed solid onto the brick.

A2LUE42

What kind of back box is used on the new socket and what is it connected to, if anything?
That really determines what is needed.

If nothing, then you need something constructed, probably from wood to hold the box steady.
you can then put plasterboard on that and finish with hardwall/skimcoat.

I'd also be twitching about the 2 sockets being different shape/finishes beside each other even when all the wall is fixed.

the_pen_turner

most sparks dont fix all the mess they make. i often fix these types of messes for a local electrician

thats butchered though. if the slab was bad you could excuse 1 or 2 bits of damage but thats 3 sides with the bit in between.

if i was fixing that i would multitool out a strip 10" by 16"+ and cut 2 new holes for both sockets,. taper the edges of the slabs, scrim or tape the joint and joint filler over the whole lot. then fit drylining boxs

Stihl waters

I was a plasterer once upon a time, in my experience electricians are some of the most useless cnuts to ever catch a tool, they never cleaned up after themselves and were often heard to say the plasterer will get that while punching holes in ceilings with a hammer to fish cables through, theres no point trying to get him back to fix that coz all he'll say is it's not his job to fix it, get a handyman to patch around it and save yourself the hassle, plumbers run a very close second

SuprSi

A2LUE42 wrote: »

What kind of back box is used on the new socket and what is it connected to, if anything?
That really determines what is needed.

If nothing, then you need something constructed, probably from wood to hold the box steady.
you can then put plasterboard on that and finish with hardwall/skimcoat.

I'd also be twitching about the 2 sockets being different shape/finishes beside each other even when all the wall is fixed.

I would've been the same but fortunately it sits behind a large chair the whole time so you can't see it.

the_pen_turner

Stihl waters wrote: »

I was a plasterer once upon a time, in my experience electricians are some of the most useless cnuts to ever catch a tool, they never cleaned up after themselves and were often heard to say the plasterer will get that while punching holes in ceilings with a hammer to fish cables through, theres no point trying to get him back to fix that coz all he'll say is it's not his job to fix it, get a handyman to patch around it and save yourself the hassle, plumbers run a very close second

your very acurate and very polite . most sparks are butchers at best.

aido79

440Hertz wrote: »

What I don't get is how anyone, with even a basic concept of how to use tools, could make a hole that big in plasterboard.

You can neatly cut and drill a box into plasterboard without any fuss at all. There are even tools to do it.

I'm not an electrician, but I installed boxes for my home network and other things without any kind of disruption to the wall. You just drill four points very neatly and use a small saw to open a perfect rectangle, exactly the size for the box.

What did he use? A sledge hammer?!

Also in plasterboard, the box normally used actually is designed for a neatly cut rectangle. It slots in and clamps to the back of the plasterboard as you tighten the screws.

It shouldn't have been difficult to identify there was a cavity either, all he had to do was remove the other socket and check what was behind it.

Not only that, but a socket is quite cheap and he left you with two mismatched wall plates.

Anyone with any kind of aesthetic sense would have put in a matching pair - not that it matters much with the state of that job!

I find the continental approach to this problem -- sooooooooo much easier! The back boxes are all round. For a double socket, there's just two round back boxes with a linkage.

To drill the holes, you have a back box core drill bit that cuts a perfect hole everytime without any messing.

It's a brick wall with plasterboard on it according to the OP so it's not just a matter of cutting a hole in the plasterboard. (From the picture I'm not convinced there's plasterboard as it looks like actual plaster rather than plasterboard) The brick needed to be cut too... but that's no excuse for leaving it the way it's been left. It's actually a lot more difficult than you've made out but with the right tools it should be an easy job for a good electrician. I would imagine he tried to chase the box with a hammer drill and the wall just crumbled. An angle grinder would have been a better choice for the job.

440Hertz

Sure I arrived into my kitchen being fitted to find the electrician using a brand new Miele oven as a stool. He’d unboxed it, put it on the floor, with the door facia scraping on the ground and then sat on the lid of it while doing wiring!

He also installed sockets at jaunty angles and then never gave me a cert for anything, making me wonder if he was even an electrician at all.

He also was about to drill through a kitchen cabinet, only to be stopped by the kitchen fitter who was absolutely horrified.

I had a plumber who decided to identify a pipe connected between a hot water tank and a distant boiler by vigorously shaking it, opening compression joints under floors in heavily lagged 1970s copper pipes. Took a huge job, including lifting floors and getting a flooring contractor in to put it right again.

All I’d say is when you get a good electrician or plumber, keep their number very safe! They’re like gold dust!

I’ve since found two absolutely excellent guys and they’ve put a lot of bad workmanship right, including a boiler house that looked to have been plumbed to create a piece of abstract art based on chaos theory.

the_pen_turner

440Hertz wrote: »

Sure I arrived into my kitchen being fitted to find the electrician using a brand new Miele oven as a stool. He’d unboxed it, put it on the floor, with the door facia scraping on the ground and then sat on the lid of it while doing wiring!

He also installed sockets at jaunty angles and then never gave me a cert for anything, making me wonder if he was even an electrician at all.

He also was about to drill through a kitchen cabinet, only to be stopped by the kitchen fitter who was absolutely horrified.

its 50 :50 .could be a spark.
the real test
did he clean up
did he leave crap all over the place
did he look confused at brush or vacuum.

if yes then definetly a spark

440Hertz

Circuit breaker boxes, off cuttings of wires, screws, back boxes, old circuit breakers all left in the brand new sink.

Kitchen guy actually had words!

olestoepoke

colm_mcm wrote: »

I’d be cutting out a big square of that plasterboard and cutting new holes for the sockets.

Banging in a load of filler isn’t going to go well. Support the joins with some timber behind it.

That’s a shocking job and it would make me question the parts of the job that you can’t see.

I'm a carpenter and what this guy said is the best ways to fix it, throwing polly villa in around it will look bad and always crack

440Hertz

If you fill a hole that size the risk is the filling material will shrink and look awful.

Looks more like you might need to get some expert advice on finishing that properly.

440Hertz

440Hertz wrote: »

Looks more like you might need to get some expert advice on finishing that properly.

Yea, maybe get a few quotes off a few different lads.

SISK or Bam might be interested .

GreeBo

If it was me and considering that it seems to be wet plaster on a brick wall I would:

1) Turn off power to sockets
2) Remove both face plates and make wires good with connectors (and tape them up)
3) Cover the back boxes with masking tape
4) Foam around the boxes (but dont bury the wire in foam)
5) When foam has cured, cut back any excess and then start filling with plaster.
6) Fill and sand until level
7) Paint
8) Removing masking tape and refix face plates

I suspect the sparks assumed he was dealing with plasterboard hence the big mess.

bladespin

Any chance of a picture of the inside? - behind the faceplate, really hoping that's boxed but can't really tell.

GreeBo

bladespin wrote: »

Any chance of a picture of the inside? - behind the faceplate, really hoping that's boxed but can't really tell.

Must be boxed to hold the faceplate....right?!:eek:

Based on what we see so far, I'm expecting to see huge, blown out chunks in the blockwork with some drywall screws half into red rawl plugs that are half hanging out...

Alun

If you zoom in really close you can just about make out the top of the back box.

awec

GreeBo wrote: »

If it was me and considering that it seems to be wet plaster on a brick wall I would:

1) Turn off power to sockets
2) Remove both face plates and make wires good with connectors (and tape them up)
3) Cover the back boxes with masking tape
4) Foam around the boxes (but dont bury the wire in foam)
5) When foam has cured, cut back any excess and then start filling with plaster.
6) Fill and sand until level
7) Paint
8) Removing masking tape and refix face plates

I suspect the sparks assumed he was dealing with plasterboard hence the big mess.

I would be very concerned about the work of any electrician who cannot determine the construction of a wall they are about to install a socket into.

I think the OP said that the backbox is only secured on 1 side, so he'll need to address that too. Foam alone won't be sufficient, going to need something he can secure the box to.

SuprSi

I actually thought it might be easy enough to fix until I sat down and properly looked at it (before posting here about it), and from the comments here (and my very limited DIY skills) I think I'd be better off getting a professional to do it. I'm ok trying stuff with paint or curtain rails but electricity is not something I want to mess around with!

listermint

awec wrote: »

I would be very concerned about the work of any electrician who cannot determine the construction of a wall they are about to install a socket into.

I think the OP said that the backbox is only secured on 1 side, so he'll need to address that too. Foam alone won't be sufficient, going to need something he can secure the box to.

Bingo. A sparks without a multitool and the wherewithal to remove a tiny section of board to see what's behind.

Are they really a sparks at all, or a cash in hand legger

440Hertz

BrownFinger wrote: »

Yea, maybe get a few quotes off a few different lads.

SISK or Bam might be interested .

Handyman, someone who knows how to plaster your wall perhaps?

Don’t know why I bothered posting!

aido79

listermint wrote: »

Bingo. A sparks without a multitool and the wherewithal to remove a tiny section of board to see what's behind.

Are they really a sparks at all, or a cash in hand legger

They didn't even have to do that. They could have just taken off the socket that was already there to see what type of wall it was.

Might be a sparks who isn't used to domestic work.

GreeBo

awec wrote: »

I would be very concerned about the work of any electrician who cannot determine the construction of a wall they are about to install a socket into.

I'd let someone off getting caught out, assuming everything else the did was correct and finished properly, in this case it looks like he whacked it with a hammer a few times.

I think the OP said that the backbox is only secured on 1 side, so he'll need to address that too. Foam alone won't be sufficient, going to need something he can secure the box to.

I'd hot glue some timber to the wall and then screw the box to the timber (if the gap is too wide to just fix directly to the wall or the OP is not comfortable fixing directly to masonry), the foam is purely to fill the void to allow him to plaster afterwards, nothing to do with holding the box in place!

GreeBo

I would also say that, in general, trying to get sockets that close together is a bad idea, there isnt enough of a gap to hold or fill properly but there is too much of a gap to do nothing.

I would have replaced the double with a triple, or if 4 are really needed, put the second double above/below the original with enough of a gap to be structurally sound and also to provide a good finish.

Kaybaykwah

I would cut the power, remove the box, hoping the wires are long enough to oull out a couple of inches to rewire comfortably.

I would then detach the wires and rewire later.

You need to cut your hole to a nice 9" square in the wall with a multitool if it is plaster, if plasterboard, cutting with a gypsym board saw. Wedge 11" lengths of batten 2x1 at the top and bottom edges of your hole, screw them through the plaster or plasterboard on either side as furring to screw your new piece of plasterboard cut to size. Screw in the piece with a hole large enough to accomodate the box. Tape and fill the joints. Do 2 coats of powder mix gypsum which can be done the same day. Sand and paint. The gypsum mix is available in 15 minute to 45 minute dry times.Do not use plaster of Paris. It remains damp for too long even after setting. With fast dry gypsum, you can do this in a day, sanding and painting base coat and finish coats, even.

The idea is that your box needs to be mobile, and accessible, and you can't just foam and plaster around it and thus encapsulate it. If course, the two boxes are really close, ao a bigger patch might be better to redo both at the same time.

aido79

GreeBo wrote: »

I would also say that, in general, trying to get sockets that close together is a bad idea, there isnt enough of a gap to hold or fill properly but there is too much of a gap to do nothing.

I would have replaced the double with a triple, or if 4 are really needed, put the second double above/below the original with enough of a gap to be structurally sound and also to provide a good finish.

Exactly right. He could have just taken off the old socket and put one of these on in it's place without cutting the wall in a few minutes.

https://www.electricalworld.com/Mobile/en/Dencon-4-Gang-Switched-Conversion-Socket/m-m-4545.aspx?PartnerID=73&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhs79BRD0ARIsAC6XpaWskUJbimL58Dq1drqwBmgmLJbo06iao6-HMiX0VM-M16sYe7lymyQaApC1EALw_wcB&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=Ireland

looksee

GreeBo wrote: »

I would also say that, in general, trying to get sockets that close together is a bad idea, there isnt enough of a gap to hold or fill properly but there is too much of a gap to do nothing.

I would have replaced the double with a triple, or if 4 are really needed, put the second double above/below the original with enough of a gap to be structurally sound and also to provide a good finish.

But what you do not do in this case, and it has happened to me with a very (otherwise) competent electrician, is put the second above/below plug so close to the other one that the cable coming down, or sometimes going up, overlaps the other socket, rendering it useless. Leave a big enough space (several inches), or better yet, don't do above/below, do side by side.

GreeBo

looksee wrote: »

But what you do not do in this case, and it has happened to me with a very (otherwise) competent electrician, is put the second above/below plug so close to the other one that the cable coming down, or sometimes going up, overlaps the other socket, rendering it useless. Leave a big enough space (several inches), or better yet, don't do above/below, do side by side.

Above or to the side, you want 4 inches+ for both cabling and to ensure you dont have a weak spot in the plasterboard. It also means you can get a knife in to skim if needed.

Above/below means its a neater setup under a desk for example, especially for things that are going to stay plugged in longterm.

Btw, you can fix your issue by flipping one of your face plates upside down, I had to do this to all of mine as they are installed on the skirting (1930's cowboys!) and impossible to plug in/out!

the_pen_turner

that slive between two sockets or switchs drives me insane. it often breaks and is a nightmare to fix back. why not leave 50mm between and it will be reasonably strong

Have you considered using your house insurance?

I would also get a structural survey.