Eight gardaí suspended in Munster region over allegations of corruption

Gregor Samsa

The_Brood wrote: »

Why do we tolerate this? Why do we just sit home and not rise up?.

We don’t tolerate it. We have laws against it. We have systems and organisations in place to deal with it. We investigate and arrest and prosecute people who contravene these laws. There’s 8 people currently under suspension, due process will follow. The system we’ve put in place to protect ourselves from this is in action and working. Why would we have to “rise up”?

LuasSimon

Another issue that should be tackled is guards not able to do their job because they have other jobs and are so busy with these other jobs !

Cluedo Monopoly

Will any of these clowns face prison?

Strumms

malinheader wrote: »

Gardai doing favours for people with GAA connections.
What's strange about this. All perfectly normal practice.
Don't know why people should be surprised.

It might be regular practice, but nothing remotely normal about it. If we start to normalize corruption and unprofessional conduct amongst the Gardai we are doing a huge disservice to ourselves the public who rely on them as well as the good honest and by the book decent members of the force.

Solutionking

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Will any of these clowns face prison?

What are you going to charge them with out of interest? from the article they just didn't follow up on certain traffic violations. No idea myself but do we have a law which allows poor employees to get thrown in jail?

So John doesn't do his report on time and he gets fired into jail. New concept, I am sure my boss will like it

westyIrl

Solutionking wrote: »

What are you going to charge them with out of interest? from the article they just didn't follow up on certain traffic violations. No idea myself but do we have a law which allows poor employees to get thrown in jail?

So John doesn't do his report on time and he gets fired into jail. New concept, I am sure my boss will like it

It'll be quite obvious and there will be patterns of where (and why) they don't follow up on certain traffic violations. This turn a blind eye, nod and wink practice, GAA buds needs to be weeded out by the roots, as any inch given leads to far greater systemic corruption down the line.

KaneToad

Solutionking wrote: »

What are you going to charge them with out of interest? from the article they just didn't follow up on certain traffic violations. No idea myself but do we have a law which allows poor* employees to get thrown in jail?

Section 62 of the Garda Síochána Act

62.— (1) A person who is or was a member of the Garda Síochána or of its civilian staff or who is or was engaged under contract or other arrangement to work with or for the Garda Síochána shall not disclose, in or outside the State, any information obtained in the course of carrying out duties of that person’s office, employment, contract or other arrangement if the person knows the disclosure of that information is likely to have a harmful effect.

*I assume you don't mean financially poor? Guards are very well compensated for their work.

KaneToad

westyIrl wrote: »

This turn a blind eye, nod and wink practice needs to be weeded out by the roots, as any inch given leads to far greater systemic corruption down the line.

I made this point on a previous thread where I disagree with the concept of guards getting free stuff from businesses (usually coffee). I got accused of being a guards hater, or someone who has had bad experiences with guards. None of which is true. I just expect high standards of ethics from state employees.

Our country was a banana republic for years due to nod/wink/blind eyes being used in our state institutions: brown envelope planning, mother & baby homes, religious institutions running hospitals using their dogma...etc..

Cluedo Monopoly

McCabe warned us about widespread corruption and the state tried to crucify him. That saga must have given the dodgy Gardai a lot of confidence.

KaneToad

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

McCabe warned us about widespread corruption and the state tried to crucify him. That saga must have given the dodgy Gardai a lot of confidence.

I don't think it was a conspiracy against him, outside of the guards. I don't believe that the TUSLA were in cahoots to produce an incorrect report. I think it was a genuine TUSLA error & the guards (incorrectly) ran with it.

Why would the TUSLA social worker (who was named and owned up to her error & apologised) want to incorrectly slur an unknown (to her) guard.

mattser

KaneToad wrote: »

I made this point on a previous thread where I disagree with the concept of guards getting free stuff from businesses (usually coffee). I got accused of being a guards hater, or someone who has had bad experiences with guards. None of which is true. I just expect high standards of ethics from state employees.

Our country was a banana republic for years due to nod/wink/blind eyes being used in our state institutions: brown envelope planning, mother & baby homes, religious institutions running hospitals using their dogma...etc..

Are you putting a free cup of coffee to the Guard, Nurse, Fire Officer, etc, on a par with these ?

Cluedo Monopoly

KaneToad wrote: »

I don't think it was a conspiracy against him, outside of the guards. I don't believe that the TUSLA were in cahoots to produce an incorrect report. I think it was a genuine TUSLA error & the guards (incorrectly) ran with it.

Why would the TUSLA social worker (who was named and owned up to her error & apologised) want to incorrectly slur an unknown (to her) guard.

I don't believe for one minute that it was a genuine TUSLA error. Not one iota. TUSLA seems to be a very badly run organisation too.

McCabe is still hated within the Gardai. I wonder why that is. The good old days are over?

Richard Hillman

There is a whole section of Croke Park that is taken up by Garda during the big games. It's at the bottom of the Hill in the corner.

Its supposed to be for crowd control but I don't see any other sport where the Garda are given a section of the stadium to watch the game. They leave the section in the last 2-3 Minutes to go.

There is a very cushy relationship with the GAA and Gardai.

KaneToad

mattser wrote: »

Are you putting a free cup of coffee to the Guard, Nurse, Fire Officer, etc, on a par with these ?

I am saying that all state employees need to have the highest ethical behaviour in their jobs. Corruption starts small and grows.

State employees accepting freebies from businesses is not ethical behaviour.

KaneToad

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I don't believe for one minute that it was a genuine TUSLA error. Not one iota. TUSLA seems to be a very badly run organisation too.

McCabe is still hated within the Gardai. I wonder why that is. The good old days are over?

I do believe it was a genuine TUSLA error. I believe the evidence of the TUSLA social worker who completed the (erroneous) file.

Why do you think she would lie? What would be her motive?

Cluedo Monopoly

KaneToad wrote: »

I do believe it was a genuine TUSLA error. I believe the evidence of the TUSLA social worker who completed the (erroneous) file.

Why do you think she would lie? What would be her motive?

https://www.thejournal.ie/tusla-hiqa-mccabe-4078823-Jun2018/#:~:text=Minister%20Katherine%20Zappone%20ordered%20a,were%20also%20forwarded%20to%20garda%C3%AD.

While the report from Hiqa is critical of Tusla in a number of instances, it stops short of blaming any one individual for the failures in the McCabe case.

It does find, however, that reporting and governance structures at Tusla led to the series of catastrophic errors in relation to McCabe and that the agency was aware of the error and could have taken appropriate action far sooner.

I will never ever believe that this 'series of catastrophic errors' which resulted in yet another smear against McCabe was accidental. You can believe what you want.

Limpy

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/tusla-hiqa-mccabe-4078823-Jun2018/#:~:text=Minister%20Katherine%20Zappone%20ordered%20a,were%20also%20forwarded%20to%20garda%C3%AD.



I will never ever believe that this 'series of catastrophic errors' which resulted in yet another smear against McCabe was accidental. You can believe what you want.

Considering the problem's that the "error" caused the person in question should of been sacked. Was she?

Cluedo Monopoly

Limpy wrote: »

Considering the problem's that the "error" caused the person in question should of been sacked. Was she?

Of course not, it was a 'clerical error'. Yeah right.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30777375.html

The HSE will not explain why the “clerical error” at the centre of the false Tusla sex abuse claims against whistleblower Maurice McCabe failed to be registered as a data protection breach, writes Fiachra Ó Cionnaith of the Irish Examiner.

A HSE spokesperson refused to comment yesterday, despite saying last weekend the “administrative error” was referred to its data protection section when uncovered — meaning it should have automatically been identified as a data protection breach.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30776365.html

A file containing a false allegation of child sex abuse against whistleblower Maurice McCabe was sent by Tusla, the child and family agency, to gardaí and widely circulated in 2013, however no effort was made to substantiate the claim, writes the Irish Examiner's Michael Clifford.

The abuse claims were made by a young woman in August to a counsellor, who contacted Tusla and gardaí. However, no attempt was made to contact Mr McCabe and put the allegations to him.

In 2014, Tusla admitted a mistake had been made and attributed the false accusation to a “clerical error”.

Yesterday, Labour leader Brendan Howlin told the Dáil that he had been contacted by a journalist who told him he had direct knowledge of the garda commissioner, Noirin O’Sullivan, briefing journalists that Sergeant McCabe was responsible for “sexual crimes”.

January 2006

Sergeant Maurice McCabe made a complaint about a colleague in January 2006. This complaint led to the colleague being disciplined.

The colleague made a complaint about Maurice McCabe on behalf of his daughter.

August 2013

When Sgt McCabe’s whistleblowing was dominating news headlines, the allegations reared their head again, but were on a more serious scale.

May 2014

The counsellor contacted Tusla to say she had made an administrative error in her report to them.

December 2015

A child protection social worker wrote to Maurice McCabe informing him an investigation was taking place into allegations he had sexually abused a child, allegedly involving digital penetration.

This was the first time the garda had heard about the allegation, the report stated.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/absolutely-incomprehensible-tusla-counsellor-mistakenly-copied-and-pasted-child-rape-allegations-into-file-on-garda-whistleblower-35438694.html

“The notion that a very serious report can be made on the basis of a cut and paste job is absolutely incomprehensible given the seriousness of the job TUSLA have to do on a daily basis,” he said.

“Where are the checks and balances and have they reviewed the processes in light of what has come out given that they have done an investigation into this in January of 2017?

“I think that TUSLA need to urgently answer their appalling failings and how the situation arose. How Maurice McCabe was not informed? How files were opened on his children, including two adult children without being informed? And why they haven't issued an apology?”

This honourable man admitted that he nearly took his own life due to this sick smear.

Only a naive fool would believe this was simply a copy-and-paste error.

Sick and Twisted.

KaneToad

Solutionking wrote: »

Not sure what point you are trying to make? I asked if we have a law for employees who have poor performance. I didn't mean poor as in no money

The law you quoted above is about them releasing confidential information, which from what I read was not the situation

Quote: Cluedo Monopoly
Will any of these clowns face prison?

Solutionking wrote: »

What are you going to charge them with out of interest?

You specifically asked what these guards would be charged with. I answered with Section 62 of Garda Síochána Act. By 'squaring' fines as favours the state official is divulging confidential information?

But, I'm not a lawyer. I guess there might be more suitable charges? Maybe the Criminal Justice (Corruption Offences) Act 2018 might be more appropriate?

KaneToad

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

This honourable man admitted that he nearly took his own life due to this sick smear.

Only a naive fool would believe this was simply a copy-and-paste error.

Sick and Twisted.

I am neither. And I daresay you are playing the man, not the ball. Why do you feel the need to insult posters rather than put forward your argument with civility?

I don't disagree that the McCabe affair was a hatchet job against him by the guards. I don't disagree that TUSLA procedures & practices were (are?) a shambles in some instances. I don't disagree that the TUSLA shortcomings added to the suffering of Maurice McCabe. I do disagree that it was a conspiracy between TUSLA and the guards to 'get' an innocent man.

I don't believe that the social worker who made the error is a liar.

https://www.thejournal.ie/kay-mcloughlin-3492109-Jul2017/%3famp=1

stoneill

James Burke would love this.

A few lads let off with speeding fines - 8 Garda suspended - Tusla is ****e.

ohnonotgmail

KaneToad wrote: »

Section 62 of the Garda Síochána Act

62.— (1) A person who is or was a member of the Garda Síochána or of its civilian staff or who is or was engaged under contract or other arrangement to work with or for the Garda Síochána shall not disclose, in or outside the State, any information obtained in the course of carrying out duties of that person’s office, employment, contract or other arrangement if the person knows the disclosure of that information is likely to have a harmful effect.

*I assume you don't mean financially poor? Guards are very well compensated for their work.

what information did they disclose?

Cluedo Monopoly

KaneToad wrote: »

I am neither. And I daresay you are playing the man, not the ball. Why do you feel the need to insult posters rather than put forward your argument with civility?

I don't disagree that the McCabe affair was a hatchet job against him by the guards. I don't disagree that TUSLA procedures & practices were (are?) a shambles in some instances. I don't disagree that the TUSLA shortcomings added to the suffering of Maurice McCabe. I do disagree that it was a conspiracy between TUSLA and the guards to 'get' an innocent man.

I don't believe that the social worker who made the error is a liar.

https://www.thejournal.ie/kay-mcloughlin-3492109-Jul2017/%3famp=1

It makes me angry when people try to downplay this smear as time goes by. The McCabe interview just before Ivan Yates retired reminded me about how much damage was done to that hero and his wife and family. I will never forget it. This country owes them a huge debt of gratitude. Anyway I am leading the thread away from it's subject so I'll stop there.

Solutionking

KaneToad wrote: »

Section 62 of the Garda Síochána Act

62.— (1) A person who is or was a member of the Garda Síochána or of its civilian staff or who is or was engaged under contract or other arrangement to work with or for the Garda Síochána shall not disclose, in or outside the State, any information obtained in the course of carrying out duties of that person’s office, employment, contract or other arrangement if the person knows the disclosure of that information is likely to have a harmful effect.

*I assume you don't mean financially poor? Guards are very well compensated for their work.

What confidential information did they release?

As per my post when someone asked if they would go to prison, do we have a law for poor/bad employee's? so if they are terrible at their job they get sent to prison?

skooterblue2

Solutionking wrote: »

What confidential information did they release?

As per my post when someone asked if they would go to prison, do we have a law for poor/bad employee's? so if they are terrible at their job they get sent to prison?

If you forge a document that affects other peoples lives well then yes, when you conspire to concieve or decieve.
Like if you KNOWINGLY release a medicine or medical device that does not meet industrial safety requirements for example.

paw patrol

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I don't believe for one minute that it was a genuine TUSLA error. Not one iota. TUSLA seems to be a very badly run organisation too.

McCabe is still hated within the Gardai. I wonder why that is. The good old days are over?

KaneToad wrote: »

I do believe it was a genuine TUSLA error. I believe the evidence of the TUSLA social worker who completed the (erroneous) file.

Why do you think she would lie? What would be her motive?

anybody who believes that Tusla made a mistake that "accidently" implicated the one guy trying to bring down the corrupt Garda apparatus needs their head examined.

KaneToad wrote: »

Why do you think she would lie? What would be her motive?

honestly who knows.
Perhaps owning up to an error is preferable to other allegations?

Maybe there are other reasons not in the public domain?


Given the nature of Tusla and what they do - imagine if Tusla admitted it being used as a weapon against perceived enemies of those in power....the anger would be unreal - you could see the government falling.

Tow

Stovepipe wrote: »

(c) their pension contributions are their own and may not be touched. All you can do is fire the offender and give him his contributions back.

The value of a Garda pension far exceeds the amount of money they put into it. It could easily be greatly reduced in value. It would actually be harder on the Gard to give them their pension contributions back. Revenue would require their pound of flesh first, if given in cash. The only way would be to transfer their contributions into a private pension fund.

From the Irish Times:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/public-sector-pensions-worth-millions-new-figures-show-1.3143604

Laois_Man

I have a female Garda neighbour who has several times boasted to us that she has gotten her brother off speeding tickets. He races around, knowing if caught by a Garda, he'll more than likely get away with it. She has instructed him to get the badge number of the Garda who nabs him, she then rings him up before he has an opportunity to enter the ticket into the system, she'll sweet talk him and she'll probably be able to get him to tear the page out of his notebook and bin it. She has done this successfully numerous times!

This **** is rampant in the Gardai. I'm shocked that it was a top story yesterday - as if it's news!

skooterblue2

paw patrol wrote: »

anybody who believes that Tusla made a mistake that "accidently" implicated the one guy trying to bring down the corrupt Garda apparatus needs their head examined.





honestly who knows.
Perhaps owning up to an error is preferable to other allegations?

Maybe there are other reasons not in the public domain?


Given the nature of Tusla and what they do - imagine if Tusla admitted it being used as a weapon against perceived enemies of those in power....the anger would be unreal - you could see the government falling.

Perhaps this social worker was promised something else by someone higher up the ladder. Remember that scandal took out 2 ministers for Justice and 2 Garda commissioners. If the Minister or Commissioner didnt know this was going on in their department/force respectively they werent fit to be in the job. I wou expect some sort of vague order was given "Give this Garda something to soften his cough and we will take it into consideration next time we are looking for a new head for your department next year?" That seems attractive to me considering what little effort it was to write the malicious report.

"Look, with a spot I damn him." Julius Caesar Act 4 Scene 1.