Biden/Harris Presidency Discussion Thread

TomOnBoard

I feel like I'm in a parallel universe right now!

Ann Coulter (yes, THE Ann Coulter) tweeted earlier:

"How about: Thank you, President Biden for fulfilling one of Trump's many broken promises by FINALLY ending the pointless war in Afghanistan."

(https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/1426954255169204224?s=02)

And, on this day of Afghanistan's final take-over by the Taliban, I heard Eric Prince earlier on Tucker Carlson actually making more or less the same points most on here have made over the past few days: stupid atempt at 'nation building' with no plan, failure of understanding/intelligence for decades, complete denial in State Dept & Pentagon etc.

Jeez... A day I can actually agree with Ann Coulter, Tucker Carlson and Eric Prince! Wow! 😨🤔

Melanchthon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117757780#Comment_117757780

Did the bi partisan committee prevent trump from fully withdrawing from Afghanistan unless conditions were met.

Yes

Did Biden withdraw fully, Yes

Were the conditions met, clearly No

This mess is Bidens to own

Melanchthon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117757671#Comment_117757671

I mean they arrogantly thought they knew better than the military.

It's in the article I linked a while ago, they have a quote in it of a source saying they think they will regret it in a few months, instead it's been a few weeks.

Yeah that was an autocorrect error but if they wanted the Taliban might be able to shut down flights from Kabul now, how far are they from the airport?

TomOnBoard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759003#Comment_117759003

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759003#Comment_117759003

Its a waste of time bringing facts to the table when you have no interest in considering them!

For the record, the bi-partisan committee 'conditions' you're extolling didn't make a blind bit of difference to the Trump withdrawal. The US and Taliban agreed on a US total withdrawal by May 1st 2021. So the fact that Trump didnt take them all out by January was in line with his un-fettered implementation of Doha and paid NO mind to the Armed Services Committee. Indeed, it was all over bar the shouting when Trump reduced the force to a mere 2,500, who could NEVER do anything other than protect the Embassy, vital interests and the evacuation of 'friendlies'.

When Biden came in, he found that the withdrawal planning was so piss-poor in respect of catering to 'friendlies' that he delayed the total withdrawal until 9/11, and later moved that to Aug 31.

So, in summary, Trump ignored the wishes of the Armed Services Committe, and Biden extended the deadline to make the withdrawal more workable. IF he had blindly followed the Trump non-plan, the carnage would now be in full flight and ppl like you would be excoriating him for not changing the plan!

There's absolutely no honesty in your position, and it fails every kind of smell test.

Brian?

This sums it up from the GOP:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalHumor/comments/p4v6ie/tell_the_people_what_they_want_to_hear/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

TomOnBoard

US Embassy now reported to be fully evacuated except for a small number of contractors..

One assumes these are the explosives/demolition experts who will take the whole building down...

TomOnBoard

As for the speed at which the Afghan Army gave up, and thereby donated huge amounts of US hardware to the Taliban, I hope the US had the foresight to ensure the vehicles, drones, high-tech weapons, planes etc would cease to function once they fall into the wrong hands... Self-destruction must surely be built into the firmware, engine management systems etc.

hotmail.com

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117757633#Comment_117757633

I think most of the blame is on successive American governments and their policy on the Middle East.

Those outside of the American media and political bubble, don't see much difference in foreign policy between the two parties.

Back in 2001, the Democrats did not oppose anything regarding action taken in Afghanistan.

AbusesToilets

Storm on a teacup. Afghanistan can go back to being an irrelevancy. Hopefully Pakistan can reap the whirlwind for their actions.

Sierra Oscar

Biden coming in for some heavy criticism.

https://twitter.com/ShonaMurray_/status/1427188797159129094

FatherTed

Biden is in a no-win situation thanks to the previous 3 administrations. The US could have stayed another 20 years and it would still be the same sh1tshow there. The ANA with a size double of the Taliban, more weapons, training etc just decide to give up and say here you go.

There is no good way to get out of Afganistan for Biden.

TomOnBoard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760623#Comment_117760623

So, a couple of general staff became furious last Thursday that Biden wasn't willing to reverse the withdrawal? LAST THURSDAY?? Like, where was their fury ANY time since February 2020 when the withdrawal was agreed?? It doesnt sound like they were great at the ould 'over the horizon' planning that military folks are supposed to be good at.. Would it have been too much to ask that these boyos would actually have foreseen that there would be utter carnage whenever the Taliban took over again?

Itssoeasy

i know expecting accountable from the people in the administration who messed up something is a lost cause, but something had to go wrong in the intelligence arena. I mean Biden has been around Washington long enough and been on the foreign affairs committee, so you would expect him to not say something like the comments last month about there being no chance of a Saigon 2.0 unless the info he was getting was to that affect. If I was the deputy director of the CIA or the second in command at the state department, I wouldn’t be making any plans.

TomOnBoard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117763466#Comment_117763466

Agree totally!

That said, Biden's answer at that presser was a hostage to fortune. He could have said "My intelligence folks tell me that nothing currently points to a Saigon-like withdrawal. I can't say more, for.operational security.reasons". Question answered without creating a big stick to beat himself with.

I think they all knew that the Army had been deserting in their droves since 2020, as they knew the T had won the big prize, since Pompeo had excluded the Afghan Govt from the Doha agreement, freeing 5,000 of the hardest T men. At that presser, Biden was trying too hard to gee up the Afghan army, and the Govt.

Imagine what would have happened /been said if he had answered the questions with full disclosure?

" Yeah, you're right! The folks in the Pentagon and in the CIA told me to put a new roof on the Embassy by next week, to be ready for the hundreds of folks who are gonna do a Saigon-style helicopter dash in a fortnight's time! " That would have been honest and fully truthful! Aaand, the current rout would have started an hour later!!

Hopefully, his apparent denial of Afghan forces' weakness bought enough time to get some extra ppl out of danger. It was never within his power to prevent a Taliban return to power!

FWIW, there are short term things to be thankful for. Kabul and other cities were not pummeled into submission with thousands of civilian casualties. There wasn't a Tehran Embassy style rout! Sadly not much else to be thankful for, as the inevitable comes to pass.

God (of whatever stripe) help the women and girls to survive the coming nightmare!

TomOnBoard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117763466#Comment_117763466

I'd say his National Security Advisor will be sweating alright! If someone has to go, he must surely be a big target!

Itssoeasy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117763993#Comment_117763993

yeah them too. Now history as it seems to be for US presidents on events which at the time don’t reflect well on them, but the future isn’t much help to joe Biden in August, 2021.

Itssoeasy

Well he’s standing behind his decision.

Itssoeasy

He’s not happy with the Afghan government, or maybe the former Afghan government I should say.

TomOnBoard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764041#Comment_117764041

He came out fighting alright! Basically, Afghan leaders were cowards, Afghan army were pussies and he wasn't going to try to save Afghanistan from the Taliban, when they made little effort themselves..I

We'll see how all that flies over the next few days..

AbusesToilets

I liked his speech. He chose the hard right after decades of the easy wrong. He made a balls of the withdrawal, they ought to planned that out to avoid a scramble.

hotmail.com

Everyone else's fault except his own.

Joke Biden could catch on.

TomOnBoard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764559#Comment_117764559

I'm sure its already cracking them up on Parler and Gab amongst the winQnut fraternity! However that 'joke' is gonna bomb anywhere that tries to be reasonable & objective (like mostly in here in fairness). Still, enjoy the schadenfreude while the heads and hands are being lopped off in Kabul!

Rjd2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759632#Comment_117759632

The screeching from so many bores has been hilarious. Corporate media who only praised Trump when he bombed Syria, the Never Trumpers who are all bloodthirsty hawks, and the Trumpers who are moaning because Biden actually followed through with his promise to leave Afghanistan unlike their Messiah.

Trump like Biden knew well it was a waste of time , he knew that withdrawing would actually be a popular move back home and was a key promise in his campaign, but he simply didn't want to deal with the fallout of such a decision.

What a coward.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117762138#Comment_117762138

They kindof did point out that it was a bad idea to work off an arbitrary date. Repeatedly.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-rebuffed-commanders-advice-in-decision-to-leave-afghanistan-11618696597

President Biden’s decision to remove all U.S. troops from Afghanistan ran counter to the recommendations of his top military commanders, who feared it could undermine security in the country.

Gen. Frank McKenzie, the commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East, Gen. Austin “Scott” Miller, who leads NATO forces in Afghanistan, and Gen. Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, all recommended retaining the current force of 2,500 troops while stepping up diplomacy to try to cement a peace agreement, U.S. officials say.

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, himself a retired military commander for the region, shared the concerns of the senior officers, cautioning that withdrawing all U.S. troops would suspend what amounted to an insurance policy for maintaining a modicum of stability in the country, the officials said

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/14/pentagon-biden-team-overrode-afghanistan-481556

As Biden weighed a full exit from the country this spring, top military leaders advocated for keeping a small U.S. presence on the ground made up primarily of special operations forces and paramilitary advisers, arguing that a force of a few thousand troops was needed to keep the Taliban in check and prevent Afghanistan from once again becoming a haven for terrorists, according to nine former and current U.S. officials familiar with the discussions.

Gen. Mark Milley, chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, as well as the four-star commanders of U.S. Forces-Afghanistan, Central Command and Special Operations Command, were emphatic proponents of this strategy, the current and former officials said, some of whom spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive planning.

[...]

“Everybody knows that the president has every right in the world to overrule the military recommendations he gets,” she continued. “The military absolutely knows, respects and subordinates themselves to that. So yeah, it’s not what they wanted and the president made a different decision — welcome to democracy in America."

[...]

David Petraeus, the former CIA chief and commander of U.S. troops in Afghanistan said the Taliban have shown no desire to participate in intra-Afghan peace talks, and after the U.S. withdrawal will likely overrun the country and allow terrorist groups such as al Qaeda and the Islamic State to reconstitute.

It may also be worth noting General Milley's comments last October, pre-Biden.

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/11/922848187/transcript-nprs-full-interview-with-joint-chiefs-of-staff-chairman-mark-milley

Milley: As you know, we the United States government signed an agreement on 28 February. At that time, we had, roughly speaking, about 12,000, a little bit better, U.S. troops in Afghanistan. That came down to, call it 8,500, 8,600 or so by mid summer, and we're on a plan to do a responsible, deliberate drawdown to about 4,500 here very shortly. And then future drawdowns will be determined by the president. And I'm not going to disclose specific numbers and what those are. The whole agreement and all of the drawdown plans are conditions-based, and I expect that we'll have further discussions on the conditions and ensure that they warrant. The key here is that we're trying to end a war responsibly, deliberately, and to do it on terms that guarantee the safety of the U.S. vital national security interests that are at stake in Afghanistan.

Interviewer: You used an important phrase, general, conditions-based. I want to make sure that people understand that. I think you're telling me you're not going to pick an arbitrary date like the end of the year or Christmas and everybody's going to leave. People are leaving when the situation on the ground makes it possible for them to leave without endangering your mission. Is that correct?

Milley. Well, that has always been our instructions. That's always been the agreement. That was the decision of the president on a conditions-based withdrawal.

The difference is that in April, the staff could still take solace in the hope that they might be wrong and the President might get lucky. Last Thursday, they are confronted with the fact that their advice wasn't taken then, they were proven correct, and apparently still were being ignored. I think a slightly different frame of mind might be understandable.

Dempo1

Pretty Grim state of affairs in Afghanistan and from an untrained eye, Biden has seriously underestimated the speed of the Taliban advance but equally the utterly cowardly behaviour of the Afghan Government and Army.

Surely Military US military commanders on the ground were doing reports, had an incling of the ineptitude of Afghan leadership & their incompetence in advance of a withdrawal.

No one doubts Bidens long held views on withdrawal but my god, the scene's of utter chaos over the past few days is just beggar's belief. The only saving grace ironically is the Taliban did not actually attack American forces at the airport, it would have been a bloodbath. The Taliban have clearly learned from past mistakes and have played a blinder here, very, very Cunning and dare I say cleverly restrained.

Watched Bidens press statement also, it was just appalling, a playbook of the blame approach , taken from the Odious Trump, also ironically Biden just handed Trump the excuse he needs to Run again. Biden barely acknowledged the sacrifice of so many, it was shocking.

Personally I liked the man, have watched him stumble through his presidency over the past few months, the honeymoon long over now, no amount of trips to ballina and proclaimations of his Irish Roots will polish the Turd he's thrown into the mix, shambolic failure and the Pentagon press conference afterwards was actually worse.

Shocking, Appalling and quite unbelievable a man with so much foreign policy experience could be so Niaeve.

snow scorpion

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8_kwAwXIAI24CH?format=jpg&name=medium

TomOnBoard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765046#Comment_117765046

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765046#Comment_117765046

Ah, C'mon Man! You missed my point completely! I don't doubt that the military repeatedly sought extensions, and tried to avoid fixed dates that would become targets. But that's not what my post referred to. I referred to the couple of general staff who allegedly went into a huff last Thursday (4 days before the complete rout of the Afghan army) and quit! They went along with a fixed final troops leaving date of 1st May for WELL OVER A YEAR, since the Pompeo/Trump Doha deal was done! They went along with the reduction of numbers down to 2,500 by the time Trump left! They knew the Afghan army was full of 'ghosts', and that barely 100,000 existed in real flesh and blood. They knew that the Afghan government was rotten with corruption and would fold like a cheap suit when the chips would be down! They knew that, as soon as the leaders were faced with a serious threat to Kabul, those leaders would pack their carpet bags chock full of $$$ and **** off to secure havens!

And knowing ALL this, they got 😠 LAST THURSDAY and up and quit???

I call that extreme cowardice and desertion, as defined by 'Title 10, U.S. Code § 899 - Art. 99. Misbehavior before the enemy'.

TomOnBoard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117765073#Comment_117765073

Its hard to argue with a lot of what you say. There's absolutely no doubt that Biden was left with a bag of booby-trapped turds when he came in. There's also no doubt he could have done a better job to flush them rather than smearing himself in so much excrement that any remnants of the pre- inaugeration gloss has been well and truly wiped away!

All the booby-traps imaginable went off, and 20 years of one-winged chickens are coming home to roost!

TomOnBoard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117767067#Comment_117767067

Sad and widely reported commentary, but equally sadly believable.

Never forget, Biden wasn't put in because he was the BEST or PERFECT candidate; he was put in to get the other fella out!

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117767851#Comment_117767851

Brilliantly and elegantly put 😁