Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

Seaswimmer

strandroad wrote: »

It would be a great link alright. Is there a chance of the council extending it all the way to connect with the Church Road cycling paths? Or through BusConnects maybe? I can't locate anything pertinent online.

Well once it gets to Cromlech fields it is only about 100m to get to the cycle path through the park (not sure what it is called) which may/will be part of the Park to Park route proposed by DLR as part of active travel project. This will bring you over to Wyatville road and into Kilbogget Park. You could turn right up Wyattville road to link up with the Church road cycle paths. I cant remember if the cycle paths run the full length of Wyattville Road. They certainly go as far as the turn off for Tesco heading north.

strandroad

I know what you mean Seaswimmer but the wide paths in the park do not connect to Wyatville Road directly, and Wyatville is not segregated. Also it's still a detour for someone who just wants to go from Shankill to Sandycove for example. Linking Cromlech to Church Road would make it a straightforward segregated route (I'm assuming Shanganagh would be segregated but I don't know for sure).

ted1

strandroad wrote: »

I know what you mean Seaswimmer but the wide paths in the park do not connect to Wyatville Road directly, and Wyatville is not segregated. Also it's still a detour for someone who just wants to go from Shankill to Sandycove for example. Linking Cromlech to Church Road would make it a straightforward segregated route (I'm assuming Shanganagh would be segregated but I don't know for sure).

You don’t need to use wyattville use the path that goes through the fields in Ballybrack. Also there plan is to use the path along shanganah cliffs are exit through Bayview


See maps here : https://www.dlrcoco.ie/sites/default/files/atoms/files/23.10.2020_loughlinstown_park-bayview-coast.pdf

https://dlrcoco.citizenspace.com/infrastructure-climate-change/dlr-safe-walking-cycling-routes-consultation/supporting_documents/Active%20School%20Travel_Park%20to%20Park%20Route.pdf


I think they could CPO some land at the end of strand road and build a cycle lane all the way from holy child to shanganah park all they need is to put a path where the red line is. And you’ll have a good off road route

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=541347&stc=1&d=1611928591

strandroad

That off road path on the coast would be great (and wildly popular I'm sure). But still, for people who actually live or access amenities on Shanganagh Road and Church Road that gap from Cromlech to Wyatville/Church crossing will be painful. It's a lot of unnecessary meandering to cycle around.

strandroad

ted1 wrote: »

You don’t need yo yo wyattville use the path that goes through the fields in Ballybrack.

What do you mean here Ted1? Say you want to cycle from Shankill to Sandycove with an errand in Ballybrack village. From Cromlech up there's no lane unless you make a big detour through the park (segregated) to Wyatville Road (not even segregated).

ted1

strandroad wrote: »

What do you mean here Ted1? Say you want to cycle from Shankill to Sandycove with an errand in Ballybrack village. From Cromlech up there's no lane unless you make a big detour through the park (segregated) to Wyatville Road (not even segregated).

Going that route yes, you are on the road. From the village I’d generally go over the hill either straight up killiney hill road or down military road and up the vico

strandroad

ted1 wrote: »

Going that route yes, you are on the road. From the village I’d generally go over the hill either straight up killiney hill road or down military road and up the vico

Agreed, what's missing is a safe link for everyday shoppers, kids, families, a straightforward segregated route from Shankill into Dun Laoghaire.

Actually we're getting there, I'm delighted with the Shanganagh Road improvements, it's just this one piece that will be missing now. And then what to do from Sallynoggin rdbt onwards.

ted1

strandroad wrote: »

Agreed, what's missing is a safe link for everyday shoppers, kids, families, a straightforward segregated route from Shankill into Dun Laoghaire.

Actually we're getting there, I'm delighted with the Shanganagh Road improvements, it's just this one piece that will be missing now. And then what to do from Sallynoggin rdbt onwards.

I’ve been known to drag my 5 year old up and over killiney hill on his bike. Makes for quite a workout.
I think most families etc would struggle so the only real option is church road to go around the hill.

strandroad

ted1 wrote: »

I’ve been known to drag my 5 year old up and over killiney hill on his bike. Makes for quite a workout.
I think most families etc would struggle so the only real option is church road to go around the hill.

Yes I'm not sure if there is any point in cycleways up there, these roads are often dark walled fume filled tunnels too, the residents sure love their 2.0 diesel mercs. But up Shanganagh Road past Cromlech through the village is easy enough I would think?

Peregrine

It's been three weeks since the Sandymount opponents declared at the Lord Mayor's forum that they would submit a section 5 referral to An Bord Pleanála. Or rather that they instructed their professional advisors to do so. Does anyone have any idea what happened? I can't find it on the weekly new cases list for any of the past three weeks.

Larbre34

As of this evening, the STC group have raised just under €12,000 of their 20k target warchest to fund the Bord Pleanála action.

Donations are coming in between €50 and 500 per donor. So, whatever happens, don't expect to see the cycletrack on one lane of the road in place anytime soon.

I daresay if it comes to it that the locals need to bring an injunction against the City Council, to prevent them from moving a muscle on site until BP issues a determination, they will do precisely that.

eeeee

"I don't care what it costs the environment, the cleaner air for local families, future generations, or that it's against all best international practice, I am not driving the Disco round any more one way systems"

The privilege. I'm kind of impressed. it's like trying to ban computers cos of the effect they'll have on pen and paper. Or hold back the tide.
The sheer gaul of that level of privilege never ceases to amaze me.

Peregrine

eeeee wrote: »

"I don't care what it costs the environment, the cleaner air for local families, future generations, or that it's against all best international practice, I am not driving the Disco round any more one way systems"

The privilege. I'm kind of impressed. it's like trying to ban computers cos of the effect they'll have on pen and paper. Or hold back the tide.
The sheer gaul of that level of privilege never ceases to amaze me.

You're dealing with people who can afford to make donations of €500 and €1000 to a legal challenge without even hearing a legal argument. They're mounting a legal challenge and that's that. The average donation is €151, the most frequent donation is €100 and the highest donation is €1000. I wish I could afford to give €100 to spurious legal challenges.

It is revealing though. It's clear now they don't actually have lawyers or planners advising them like they claimed they did. Well, they claimed they had professional advisors. Maybe they're professionals at something else.

Larbre34

Only matched by the general level of naivety around how much people are willing to put up with. Its not about privilege, its about the quality of life people have invested in for themselves and the neighbourhood and defending that from being turned into a dodgy experiment.

Putting a cycleway on Strand Road won't do one damn thing to reduce emissions or lessen the chance of long term flooding of low lying coastal areas. Only switching the national fleet of ICE vehicles to ZE options, reducing fossil fuel energy generation and rebalancing our diet, all over the World, will do that.

People are right to reject an increase in traffic on the back roads of Sandymount and Irishtown, right to reject the consequent drop in safety for their kids and in air quality locally.

There is a win-win-win solution to this issue and that the City Council have to be dragged kicking and screaming into doing it, as they will eventually be, is a sad indictment of them and their executive.

buffalo

Larbre34 wrote: »

Putting a cycleway on Strand Road won't do one damn thing to reduce emissions or lessen the chance of long term flooding of low lying coastal areas. Only switching the national fleet of ICE vehicles to ZE options, reducing fossil fuel energy generation and rebalancing our diet, all over the World, will do that.

I don't understand this statement. You think reducing road space for motor traffic and creating safe, good quality cycling infrastructure won't result in a single person changing a single journey from car to bike?

I think you're confusing 'one damn thing' with 'everything'. You can start with one thing, and hope to end with everything, but if you don't start with one thing, you'll never ever get to everything.

mirrormatrix

In fairness, there's an option here for them to keep the two way road and have a cycle path. It's just a lot more expensive.

Thelonious Monk

mirrormatrix wrote: »

In fairness, there's an option here for them to keep the two way road and have a cycle path. It's just a lot more expensive.

But doesn't that mean building on a protected site? I'm not sure it is an option.

mirrormatrix

Oh, I didn't realise that.

Thelonious Monk

mirrormatrix wrote: »

Oh, I didn't realise that.

I'm pretty sure Dublin Bay is a Unesco biosphere site, so you can't just build things on the other side of the seawall.

magicbastarder

Larbre34 wrote: »

Putting a cycleway on Strand Road won't do one damn thing to reduce emissions or lessen the chance of long term flooding of low lying coastal areas. Only switching the national fleet of ICE vehicles to ZE options, reducing fossil fuel energy generation and rebalancing our diet, all over the World, will do that.

here's a radical thought - what if it's not *just* about CO2?

TheW1zard

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Dublin Bay is a Unesco biosphere site, so you can't just build things on the other side of the seawall.

"Composed of 686 biosphere reserves in 122 countries, including 20 transboundary sites, the World Network of Biosphere Reserves (WNBR) of the MAB Programme consists of a dynamic and interactive network of sites of excellence. It works to foster the harmonious integration of people and nature for sustainable development through participatory dialogue, knowledge sharing, poverty reduction, human well-being improvements, respect for cultural values and by improving society’s ability to cope with climate change."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/epa-finds-waste-water-discharge-in-dublin-bay-caused-by-overload-1.3819295

What correlates more with the description, a cycle track or the link!

Thelonious Monk

Yeah I wish they'd get their act together with that treatment site, but that's for another discussion.

Fred Cryton

buffalo wrote: »

I think you're confusing 'one damn thing' with 'everything'. You can start with one thing, and hope to end with everything, but if you don't start with one thing, you'll never ever get to everything.

Problem is that each step along the route you want will result in a lower standard of living. So we're goign to resist at each step. Cycle lanes just result in misery for drivers. Look at the weather over the last few weeks - Aren't you lucky to have the Covid excuse or you would have to cycle in that?

Seth Brundle

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Problem is that each step along the route you want will result in a lower standard of living. So we're goign to resist at each step.

How does cycling create a lower standard of living?
Surely people driving for several hours each week in traffic congestion creates a lower standard of living?
Surely the toxic fumes in city centre air reduces the standard of living for those who are forced to breathe it in?

Fred Cryton wrote: »

So we're goign to resist at each step. Cycle lanes just result in misery for drivers.

How does a cycle lane cause misery to drivers? Surely traffic volumes create a misery?
Can you identify one example of drivers being forced into misery because of a cycle lane?

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Look at the weather over the last few weeks - Aren't you lucky to have the Covid excuse or you would have to cycle in that?

What about it? Many people were still out cycling and walking. As the phrase goes "there's no bad weather, only bad clothing"!

buffalo

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Problem is that each step along the route you want will result in a lower standard of living. So we're goign to resist at each step. Cycle lanes just result in misery for drivers. Look at the weather over the last few weeks - Aren't you lucky to have the Covid excuse or you would have to cycle in that?

Hi Fred, welcome back to the cycle forum. Cycle lanes don't result in misery for drivers, you'll find a lot of drivers are quite miserable without them! :pac: Plenty of roads around the country entirely dedicated to motor traffic that are regularly full of miserable drivers every morning and evening.

You won't be surprised that many of us cycle in all weather, and we'd really appreciate having some safe infrastructure while we do so.

As for lower standard of living... I'm not sure that having a cycle lane on the road is a lower standard of living than having the road returned to the sea? I mean, it's arguable that the cycle lane will result in a lower standard of living at all - it will improve air quality, people's physical health, mental well-being, increase property prices...

Thelonious Monk

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Problem is that each step along the route you want will result in a lower standard of living. So we're goign to resist at each step. Cycle lanes just result in misery for drivers. Look at the weather over the last few weeks - Aren't you lucky to have the Covid excuse or you would have to cycle in that?

I've been out on my bike to the shops and jogging most days all winter. So don't know what you're on about weather wise.

ted1

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Problem is that each step along the route you want will result in a lower standard of living. So we're goign to resist at each step. Cycle lanes just result in misery for drivers. Look at the weather over the last few weeks - Aren't you lucky to have the Covid excuse or you would have to cycle in that?

Lovely morning for cycling. Many cycle 365 days. I drove around the country for years as a field engineer. As soon as I got an office job I started to cycle. As I find sitting inside metal box just misery. If you feel the misery too , then get out of the car or call the samaratians

As for standard of life. That’ll be much improved. Less traffic and pollution in front of houses. Safe accessible routes for local non drivers to get to school, work, shops.
Or do think that the demographic of residents is victor meldrews. With no young people or older people who don’t want to drive

MojoMaker

Stay strong Dublin City Council.

DoraDelite

Is it odd that I picture the characters Charles O'Carroll Kelly and Hennessy as the main protagonists whenever I see something from the STC group, especially their latest "fundraiser"?

MojoMaker

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Cycle lanes just result in misery for drivers.

When there's no cycle lanes drivers seem even more pissed off :pac:

Be honest now, what STC (COCK and Hennessy) really mean is: "Cyclists just result in misery for drivers".