International Men's Day, November 19

newport2

BIG GUNZ wrote: »

I hate how everything about IMD is negative: suicide, depression etc. Why don't we honour great warriors and leaders? Let's celebrate male characteristics like honour, courage, strength etc.

It has pretty much become "International Toxic-masculinity Day", because that's what most of the limited media attention it gets focuses on

iptba

newport2 wrote: »

The Irish Times had one opinion article on it, it was titled:

"Does International Men’s Day diminish women’s struggle for equality?"

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/does-international-men-s-day-diminish-women-s-struggle-for-equality-1.4412914

iptba

iptba wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/does-international-men-s-day-diminish-women-s-struggle-for-equality-1.4412914

I found it heartening to read many of the comments underneath. As they will disappear in a day or two, I thought I would post some here now:

So, in summary, the author admits that the issues being raised in the context of International Man's Day are worthy and unobjectionable, but creates a straw man in order to attack it anyway.—

Oh dear. This is really just an attack of men having the temerity to want recognition of issues that affect them, by a feminist who feels threatened by not having full control of the narrative around gender issues. 

And as for this :“The fact remains, however, that there is a plain imbalance between the genders in work, society and at home.” 

The imbalance is not so plain. Yes, there are many metrics under which women are doing less well. But there are many metrics under which men are doing less well, and pretty important ones at that: men die younger; men are more likely to be homeless; men have poorer health outcomes; men have poorer educational outcomes; men are more likely to be imprisoned, to commit suicide, etc.

So, in order to be worthy of an official day, or month, you must be oppressed! Straight out of the bankrupt ideology of grievance studies and critical race, gender and queer theory What's wrong with a mere celebration of achievement if that's what people want to do?

Still, I suppose men are getting off lightly here. After all, if saying White Lives Matter is racist, then, by analogy, having an International Men's Day must be misogynist. I guess we're lucky logic isn't the strong suit of the woke brigade! «

yawn......this only proves that for some feminists.......equality is not the end goal..

And, of course, the Women’s Movement, while well intentioned, may unintentionally give a platform to dyed-in-the-wool man-haters.

The feminists are getting very worried these days because their monopoly world view is being challenged over a whole range of issues. The whole woke agenda Is under attack.

“These barriers include discriminatory social norms, the gender pay gap and violence against women.”

The first is so vague as to be meaningless, the gender pay gap argument is beneath contempt at this point and simply confirms this author’s ignorance of how it was debunked time and again. The third is more insidious because it is supported by a deliberate media-driven campaign to continuously suppress facts about domestic violence. There has never been a proper discussion of this sensitive and emotive issue. The facts, supported by overwhelming evidence show that men and women perpetrate DV at comparable rates, women are just as likely to initiate the violence, even the physical kind, women are just as controlling as men and most of DV is reciprocal. In other words the black and white, exclusive binary view of victim and perpetrator is simply wrong.

Some more facts: Tusla the principal state funding agency is currently spending 25 million euro on services. Of this Men’s Aid got 240,000 euro. It cannot operate even a skeleton service; it is restricted to a 9 to 5 service Monday to Friday. There are no shelters for men. Men’s Aid got 3500 calls during the pandemic, 43% came from Dublin yet Dublin has no call centre for abused men. Since there is nowhere for them to go they end up sleeping in cars or else on the street. Many are suicidal but Who cares?

The main media in this state refuse to acknowledge these facts. RTE has interviewed women’s groups at least 9 times since March. Not once did it interview the CEO of Men’s Aid to find out their situation. It dares to call itself a public service broadcaster and is currently begging the state for more money to do more of the same.

The Irish Times is no better. It has never devoted an opinion column to an impartial examination of the issue. Nor has it interviewed Men’s Aid once; neither during the pandemic or in the past 10 while it continually deplores the "discrimination" against women.

There is a day of reckoning coming.

She also got the suicide figures wrong; the male female ratio has been steady at 4 to 1 for decades; it reached 5 to 1 in 2011, 2012 during the height of the recession. The state paid no attention.

“Consumers and investors today expect companies to have a corporate social responsibility strategy and to take a stand on social justice issues such as gender equality”.

Indeed, the rush to show how much they care has caused Pepsi to spend $400 million that includes everything from “mandatory unconscious bias training” to adding “100 black associates to our executive ranks.” Chevron and others do likewise.

Here AIB collaborated with Women’s Aid to produce a video, the Abusive Teller Machine, which purports to address the problem of financial abuse. In its haste to display its wokeness it relied on a figure, supplied by Women’s Aid, of 198,000 women who suffer such abuse each year.

Problem: The figure is false; the source supplied by Women’s Aid contains no such figure. It may well be out by a factor of 2. Of course men were ignored in this exercise in sanctimoniousness. Yet the video still sits on their website.

One single, solitary day in the year that is for men - and the Irish Times just has to turn it into another female victimhood story.
Why does this newspaper hate men so much?

Even on International Men’s Day they picked a woman to write about it. Says it all.

They want gender diversity in the cushy jobs in heated offices. Most of the women who wanted to be solicitors do not want to be in a competitive sector. Instead, they are in state filled positions or in banks, credit unions, legal aid board...and the like where they are in a vast majority. No calling for quotas there. Or in primary school teaching comprising 90% females. No call in for quotas in building labourer, farmworker or refuse collector jobs.
—-
Reply to X: Absolutely, X. Feminism is not about equality. I was a secondary school teacher for 12 years and worked with female teachers who openly stated that they saw their job as being to educate "our girls" and freely admitted that they had no interest in educating the boys who were in their care.—-

A disgrace of an article which exposes the perpetual whine of the feminist movement. No surprise to see the beta males at the Irish Times editorial team approving this rubbish.—-

Y: , They'd be terrified not to. Career suicide these days in "liberal" workplaces.

Ahh, the gender pay gap. The average pay - averaged over all ages and all sectors of the economy is different for men and women because - wait for it - men and women are different!

Different career choices, different degree majors, different hours worked, different propensities to commute, different amounts of overtime worked, differences around family life, different levels of agreeableness (important in salary negotiations), differing attitudes to part-time work, etc. etc. Difference in equals difference out. Accounts for almost all of the mythical gender pay gap.

After the author's reference to this myth, I'm afraid I had to stop reading, lest I be led deeper into mythological territories

Skippyme

In terms of International Men's Day - TOXIC MASC. IS HARMING MEN therefore men such as me want it discussed too.

If we can't have discussions or people get angry at the mention of the topic then there is no hope for anyone struggling because others are happy themselves.

There was a time when people didn't talk about inequality they weren't heard when they did. It takes somebody to voice it without giving up but even then things can seem impossible, flat earth, women voting, racism all things that have had a long term place in societies.

Those days are NOT gone, Young men still beating this relentless drum ... Stigma placed on guys struggling with Social Anxiety by OTHER MEN

What do you call it when it's men doing it to men & even themselves ??? Sometimes it's not healthy competition it's being an ego centric bully.

Imagine a guy suffering with Social Anxiety among other men. Men treat other men like a skunk in this scenario

Please have a read especially 1st PARAGRAPH, also PGs #1,#7 & #11

SEE LINK TO TOPIC ON MEN HARMING OTHER MEN

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058042337

iptba

Skippyme wrote: »

In terms of International Men's Day - TOXIC MASC. IS HARMING MEN therefore men such as me want it discussed too.

If we can't have discussions or people get angry at the mention of the topic then there is no hope for anyone struggling because others are happy themselves.

There was a time when people didn't talk about inequality they weren't heard when they did. It takes somebody to voice it without giving up but even then things can seem impossible, flat earth, women voting, racism all things that have had a long term place in societies.

Those days are NOT gone, Young men still beating this relentless drum ... Stigma placed on guys struggling with Social Anxiety by OTHER MEN

What do you call it when it's men doing it to men & even themselves ??? Sometimes it's not healthy competition it's being an ego centric bully.

Imagine a guy suffering with Social Anxiety among other men. Men treat other men like a skunk in this scenario

Please have a read especially 1st PARAGRAPH, also PGs #1,#7 & #11

SEE LINK TO TOPIC ON MEN HARMING OTHER MEN

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058042337

I’m all for men’s issues being discussed and explored. However, on International Women’s Day, the focus isn’t on pressures/bullying/whatever women put on other women in the same way you want a focus on these issues for men on International Men’s Day. Also has been explained to you before Toxic Masculinity is a loaded term; again we very rarely hear of Toxic Femininity and certainly not in connection with mainstream coverage of International Women’s Day. Using different language would help.

Skippyme

I don't want to take over the thread so I'll leave it at 4 basic points -

All issues on International Men's Day are valid issues both positive and negative impact men & the impact they have on others

It's not a loaded term as we do classify different forms of bullying or even ingrained beliefs like white supremacy etc

Women do discuss issues that could be thought of as negative on International Women's Day like Cancer / Rape / Body Dysmorphia or pressures such as becoming a new Mum

On International Men's Day I want to discuss my own gender's abuse of their brethren because they do it to me & other blokes

It gets more attention than the opposite end of the spectrum ( Toxic Femininity ) due to it being more dangerous in both short & long term -

Example ...

Anorexia is more dangerous in the short term than gradual eventual morbid obesity that can carry on longer without immediate emergency occuring