Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

If the circumstances were the same, yes.

The 'circumstances' won't be the same. The precedent is set, any Taoiseach can give what ever confidential info they like to whomever they like and not expect sanction.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'circumstances' won't be the same. The precedent is set, any Taoiseach can give what ever confidential info they like to whomever they like and not expect sanction.

To err is human. To forgive, divine.

Let it go. You’ll feel so much better.

Bannasidhe

Deleted User wrote: »

If the circumstances were the same, yes.

I wouldn't.

I would be calling for accountability.

The problem is that should the day come when MLMD does slip a confidential doc to a 'friend' she has tacit permission to do so granted by the 'Nothing to See Here' FG cheerleaders.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

To err is human. To forgive, divine.

Let it go. You’ll feel so much better.

Far to fascinating to watch this unravel to 'let it go'.

Nobotty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'circumstances' won't be the same. The precedent is set, any Taoiseach can give what ever confidential info they like to whomever they like and not expect sanction.

They won't if the rules are changed
Thats the next bill SF should sponsor IMO

jmcc

McMurphy wrote: »

Error of judgement party.

Varadkar's reign of error. Sounds like a low-budget vampire comedy movie.

Regards...jmcc

Fann Linn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

To err is human. To forgive, divine.

Let it go. You’ll feel so much better.

Does that include the Bobby Storey funeral?

micosoft

smurgen wrote: »

It amounted to Leo Varadkar admitting he leaked commercially sensitive information to a buddy. His name is forever going to be Leo the leak and he will be know for corruption from now on.

Can someone explain how this was "commercially sensitive" given both organisations are charitable entities that represent members and not profit making entities. And that there is a single payer - the tax payer in this case.

Secondly do you know what the word corruption means? The only people who appear to have made money out of this are the Village magazine. Varadkars name will have the hashtag because a certain parties social media team dreamt it up to distract from some of their own serious issues. It say more about how you are easily manipulated to be part of an astroturfing campaign than that you have any insight into Irish politics.

For the record, it is utterly normal in union negotiations to make sure every union involved is aware of the "landing zone" for negotiations in pay deals. I've been on both sides (employer/union) in the semi-state sector. If you conducted with absolute secrecy no union would sign any agreement on the possibility another union would negotiate a better deal. What was happening here was an attempt to ensure you did not have a breakaway holding out for more or a reluctance for membership of the bigger union to vote in down if they thought the holdout union might get more. This is especially dysfunctional with "representative" organisations rather than Unions because of competition law etc.

Moreover, if you are looking at it purely from the states perspective, having more than one representative organisation is better for the state. Remember George McNiece and his 20m pension from the IMO. The reason the NAGP went down was because the members felt the IMO had an unfair advantage in negotiating GP rates and that they were locked out because of the IMO monopoly.

It is simply dishonest of the village to suggest this was in any unusual and happened during every major negotiation between govt and unions. Given the first line of the Village article was something a first year journalist student would know was untrue (official secrets act does not apply to politicians) frankly the only folk coming out badly are the Village magazine yet again for being a lefty Breitbart of Ireland. A damp squib story that detracts from real political commentary.

Fann Linn

micosoft wrote: »

Can someone explain how this was "commercially sensitive" given both organisations are charitable entities that represent members and not profit making entities. And that there is a single payer - the tax payer in this case.

Secondly do you know what the word corruption means? The only people who appear to have made money out of this are the Village magazine. Varadkars name will have the hashtag because a certain parties social media team dreamt it up to distract from some of their own serious issues. It say more about how you are easily manipulated to be part of an astroturfing campaign than that you have any insight into Irish politics.

For the record, it is utterly normal in union negotiations to make sure every union involved is aware of the "landing zone" for negotiations in pay deals. I've been on both sides (employer/union) in the semi-state sector. If you conducted with absolute secrecy no union would sign any agreement on the possibility another union would negotiate a better deal. What was happening here was an attempt to ensure you did not have a breakaway holding out for more or a reluctance for membership of the bigger union to vote in down if they thought the holdout union might get more. This is especially dysfunctional with "representative" organisations rather than Unions because of competition law etc.

Moreover, if you are looking at it purely from the states perspective, having more than one representative organisation is better for the state. Remember George McNiece and his 20m pension from the IMO. The reason the NAGP went down was because the members felt the IMO had an unfair advantage in negotiating GP rates and that they were locked out because of the IMO monopoly.

It is simply dishonest of the village to suggest this was in any unusual and happened during every major negotiation between govt and unions. Given the first line of the Village article was something a first year journalist student would know was untrue (official secrets act does not apply to politicians) frankly the only folk coming out badly are the Village magazine yet again for being a lefty Breitbart of Ireland. A damp squib story that detracts from real political commentary.

The NAGP allegedly were leaking members hence leaking membership funds. If something could be found to stop the rot the NAGP might be saved. Or words to that effect.

The NAGP weren't party to the talks.

Fann Linn

Fann Linn wrote: »

Does that include the Bobby Storey funeral?

That wasn’t an error of judgment but a carefully planned publicity stunt.

jmcc

micosoft wrote: »

Can someone explain how this was "commercially sensitive" given both organisations are charitable entities that represent members and not profit making entities. And that there is a single payer - the tax payer in this case.

Secondly do you know what the word corruption means? The only people who appear to have made money out of this are the Village magazine. Varadkars name will have the hashtag because a certain parties social media team dreamt it up to distract from some of their own serious issues. It say more about how you are easily manipulated to be part of an astroturfing campaign than that you have any insight into Irish politics.

For the record, it is utterly normal in union negotiations to make sure every union involved is aware of the "landing zone" for negotiations in pay deals. I've been on both sides (employer/union) in the semi-state sector. If you conducted with absolute secrecy no union would sign any agreement on the possibility another union would negotiate a better deal. What was happening here was an attempt to ensure you did not have a breakaway holding out for more or a reluctance for membership of the bigger union to vote in down if they thought the holdout union might get more. This is especially dysfunctional with "representative" organisations rather than Unions because of competition law etc.

Moreover, if you are looking at it purely from the states perspective, having more than one representative organisation is better for the state. Remember George McNiece and his 20m pension from the IMO. The reason the NAGP went down was because the members felt the IMO had an unfair advantage in negotiating GP rates and that they were locked out because of the IMO monopoly.

It is simply dishonest of the village to suggest this was in any unusual and happened during every major negotiation between govt and unions. Given the first line of the Village article was something a first year journalist student would know was untrue (official secrets act does not apply to politicians) frankly the only folk coming out badly are the Village magazine yet again for being a lefty Breitbart of Ireland. A damp squib story that detracts from real political commentary.

Complete FG propaganda! The OSA does apply to politicians. Leo The Leak is also on record as earlier acknowledging that he had signed up to cabinet confidentiality. Leo The Leak leaked a CONFIDENTIAL document to his friend.

As for the bolloxology about this hypothetical "first year journalist student", there seems to be an awful lot of FGers here who have suddenly become experts on Journalism despite never having being paid a cent for their scribbling.

The Village Magazine got the story. The Village Magazine got the former taoiseach leaking a CONFIDENTIAL document that was not for circulation to his friend. The former taoiseach, Leo The Leak, admitted on the Dail record to leaking a document that was marked CONFIDENTIAL to his friend.

It is remarkable how low that FG has fallen that it would actively condone this type of behaviour. It is even worse to see the type of low quality people that FG now attracts in that they see no ethical or moral problem with their dear leader leaking a CONFIDENTIAL document to his friend.

There was a time that FG would rail about this kind of behaviour being something that FF would do. But there's no distinction between FG and FF now, is there?

If the buzzing from the Bluebots on Social Media has suddenly increased, is there some other problem on the way for FFG? A poll, perhaps?

Regards...jmcc

markodaly

smurgen wrote: »

It amounted to Leo Varadkar admitting he leaked commercially sensitive information to a buddy. His name is forever going to be Leo the leak and he will be know for corruption from now on.

Sleepy Joe
Crocked Hillary.

Welcome to 2020 when nicknames amount to political debating. :D

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

They have

Sipo and AGS investigations been completed? Proclaiming people have moved on and no-one will be talking about it anymore is very very premature, ask Lowry if you need a second opinion.

Sorry, but is there an active AGS investigation on going?
I didn't hear there was.

Fann Linn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That wasn’t an error of judgment but a carefully planned publicity stunt.

Good Girl Mary. You've restored my faith in the hypocrisy of the blueshirts.

Poor auld Leo slipped up when he organised a courier to take the document marked, 'confidential not for circulation' to a 'friend, not friend', Leo's words and he should be given a pass but the nasty Shinners should be hung from the yard arm for attending a funeral, burial, or even political rally. I concede that.

No Mary, they both did wrong, but you just are unable to bring yourself to terms.
They really are in your DNA.

markodaly

Bannasidhe wrote: »

All of which can be summarised as "the messenger acted unprofessionally therefore we can ignore the story" - a view which utterly fails to consider LV admitted he passed a confidential document to a friend.
He. did. it. That is the story, and it is factually correct.

As I said, and I will repeat...again.. just for you.
I admitted that the initial story itself was a good one. I even admitted that SF had a good week, the first time out... until it all went mad and they went down the MoNC vote, to try and drum up more outrage.

That does not distract from my point that, instead of being elevated, TheVilage shat the bed when it was their time to shine and instead like that guy who outed David Norris, will probably disappear into oblivion.

Newfound attention gone to their head when whoever is behind the 'publication' is using its official Twitter handle as a personal soapbox to comment on various issues and being found wanting, as per the simple mistakes they did regarding bike lanes.
They were schooled on that little tidbit, but ran away from the debate, once they were shown to be very wrong on their 'opinion'.

expectationlost

smurgen wrote: »

It amounted to Leo Varadkar admitting he leaked commercially sensitive information to a buddy. His name is forever going to be Leo the leak and he will be know for corruption from now on.

he leaked it to a lobbyist.

jmcc

markodaly wrote: »

Newfound attention gone to their head when whoever is behind the 'publication' is using its official Twitter handle as a personal soapbox to comment on various issues and being found wanting, as per the simple mistakes they did regarding bike lanes.

You don't really get Social Media, do you? Perhaps you can ask Leo The Leak to explain it to you. It isn't like the presstitutes, institutionalised political "correspondents" and press release recyclers in the media who all toe the party line. People can post their own opinions. How dare they! Don't they realise what FG stands for? Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Leaker.

Regards...jmcc

markodaly

jmcc wrote: »

You don't really get Social Media, do you? Perhaps you can ask Leo The Leak to explain it to you. It isn't like the presstitutes, institutionalised political "correspondents" and press release recyclers in the media who all toe the party line. People can post their own opinions. How dare they! Don't they realise what FG stands for? Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Leaker.

Regards...jmcc

Thanks for agreeing with me on TheVillage.
They are an opinion outlet, dressed up as journalism.

Suing them is like suing someone on Twitter. :P

jmcc

markodaly wrote: »

Thanks for agreeing with me on TheVillage.
They are an opinion outlet, dressed up as journalism.

Suing them is like suing someone on Twitter. :P

Even opinion is part of Journalism (that may be rather upsetting for real journalists). What do you think that columnists like Tintin and Una Voce do?

Regards...jmcc

Nobotty

Fann Linn wrote: »

Good Girl Mary. You've restored my faith in the hypocrisy of the blueshirts.

Poor auld Leo slipped up when he organised a courier to take the document marked, 'confidential not for circulation' to a 'friend, not friend', Leo's words and he should be given a pass but the nasty Shinners should be hung from the yard arm for attending a funeral, burial, or even political rally. I concede that.

No Mary, they both did wrong, but you just are unable to bring yourself to terms.
They really are in your DNA.

What Sinn Féin or pbp need to do now is get the Taoiseach can share loophole closed
That would be leadership on the issue
Get it added to the ethics legislation
Its unlikely the government could oppose that
It would also open the door to actively raising the issue at the next election
'We did this because of Leo the leak ' etc
We are the party of ethics and transparency etc
If the government oppose it,its a full on campaign issue next election

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

Sleepy Joe
Crocked Hillary.

Welcome to 2020 when nicknames amount to political debating. :D

Difference is Leo's moniker is descriptive and accurate not a slur for ****s and giggles.

Bubbaclaus

Bowie wrote: »

Difference is Leo's moniker is descriptive and accurate not a slur for ****s and giggles.

The people that say Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe consider the monikers to be descriptive and accurate also.

I think we would be better off if that type of populist rhetoric didn't enter the Irish political landscape.

Brendan Bendar

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

The people that say Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe consider the monikers to be descriptive and accurate also.

I think we would be better off if that type of populist rhetoric didn't enter the Irish political landscape.

Some coterie of folk don’t buy your good logic Bubba, they like to horse out these populist monikers, keep lashing them out at every opportunity, hoping that if used often enough they will stick.

The coterie of folk who are more balanced and informed treat them for what they are..... pure phukkery.

Nothing else....... populist bulldust usually emanating from the squats and sink estates.


Trump started that rubbish, see where he ended up..... uhmmmmm.

martingriff

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

The people that say Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe consider the monikers to be descriptive and accurate also.

I think we would be better off if that type of populist rhetoric didn't enter the Irish political landscape.

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Some coterie of folk don’t buy your good logic Bubba, they like to horse out these populist monikers, keep lashing them out at every opportunity, hoping that if used often enough they will stick.

The coterie of folk who are more balanced and informed treat them for what they are..... pure phukkery.

Nothing else....... populist bulldust usually emanating from the squats and sink estates.


Trump started that rubbish, see where he ended up..... uhmmmmm.

It is best ignore it and it will fade away if you show it has an effect they will keep on doing it

James Brown

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

The people that say Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe consider the monikers to be descriptive and accurate also.

I think we would be better off if that type of populist rhetoric didn't enter the Irish political landscape.

We know Leo leaks. He admitted it. So it's accurate.
It's a little silly but it's factual. As is sleepy Eamo

micosoft

jmcc wrote: »

Complete FG propaganda! The OSA does apply to politicians. Leo The Leak is also on record as earlier acknowledging that he had signed up to cabinet confidentiality. Leo The Leak leaked a CONFIDENTIAL document to his friend.

The Official Secrets act cannot apply to a Minister as Tanaiste Varadkar was. It's laid out in the Irish Statute Book.

4.—(1) A person shall not communicate any official information to any other person unless he is duly authorised to do so or does so in the course of and in accordance with his duties as the holder of a public office or when it is his duty in the interest of the State to communicate it.

(2) A person to whom subsection (1) applies shall take reasonable care to avoid any unlawful communication of such information.

(3) A person shall not obtain official information where he is aware or has reasonable grounds for believing that the communication of such information to him would be a contravention of subsection (1).

(4) In this section “duly authorised” means authorised by a Minister or State authority or by some person authorised in that behalf by a Minister or State authority.

You don't sign up to cabinet confidentiality. It applies automatically as per the constitution. In any case how does cabinet confidentiality relate to this matter? What relevance does it have to the matter at hand? Article 28.4.3° of the Constitution states as follows:
The confidentiality of discussions at meetings of the Government shall be respected in all circumstances save only where the High Court determines that disclosure should be made in respect of a particular matter
Cabinet Confidentiality has no relevance to Varadkars disclosure.

Perhaps you should read the "FG Propaganda" that is the Irish Statute Book. It's not hard to find and is pretty clear on all these matters.

jmcc wrote: »

As for the bolloxology about this hypothetical "first year journalist student", there seems to be an awful lot of FGers here who have suddenly become experts on Journalism despite never having being paid a cent for their scribbling.

The Village Magazine got the story. The Village Magazine got the former taoiseach leaking a CONFIDENTIAL document that was not for circulation to his friend. The former taoiseach, Leo The Leak, admitted on the Dail record to leaking a document that was marked CONFIDENTIAL to his friend.

It is remarkable how low that FG has fallen that it would actively condone this type of behaviour. It is even worse to see the type of low quality people that FG now attracts in that they see no ethical or moral problem with their dear leader leaking a CONFIDENTIAL document to his friend.

There was a time that FG would rail about this kind of behaviour being something that FF would do. But there's no distinction between FG and FF now, is there?

If the buzzing from the Bluebots on Social Media has suddenly increased, is there some other problem on the way for FFG? A poll, perhaps?

Regards...jmcc

gadarnol

micosoft wrote: »

The Official Secrets act cannot apply to a Minister as Tanaiste Varadkar was. It's laid out in the Irish Statute Book.

4.—(1) A person shall not communicate any official information to any other person unless he is duly authorised to do so or does so in the course of and in accordance with his duties as the holder of a public office or when it is his duty in the interest of the State to communicate it.

(2) A person to whom subsection (1) applies shall take reasonable care to avoid any unlawful communication of such information.

(3) A person shall not obtain official information where he is aware or has reasonable grounds for believing that the communication of such information to him would be a contravention of subsection (1).

(4) In this section “duly authorised” means authorised by a Minister or State authority or by some person authorised in that behalf by a Minister or State authority.

How does cabinet confidentiality relate to this matter? What relevance does it have to the matter at hand? Article 28.4.3° of the Constitution states as follows:
The confidentiality of discussions at meetings of the Government shall be respected in all circumstances save only where the High Court determines that disclosure should be made in respect of a particular matter
Cabinet Confidentiality has no relevance to Varadkars disclosure.

Perhaps you should read the "FG Propaganda" that is the Irish Statute Book. It's not hard to find and is pretty clear on all these matters.



All I get from this is that after your fact-free opening you then only play the man and not the ball. And of course juvenile name calling.

The OSA application to members of the Oireachtas was discussed in the Legal Affairs forum. The consensus of opinion across there and legal commentary is that it does apply.

On the continuing denial of reality by FG loyalists I note this evening the constitutional crisis over Woulfe has deepened with the Dáil business committee collapsing after all Opposition parties withdrew over FFGG refusal to have McEntee face the Dáil properly. Cabinet confidentiality quoted in a HC case on the LC debacle to protect a memo from the Minister of Ed is seen as hollow and cynical evasion. And SIPO yet to look at Varadkar. But nothing to see here. Draw your own conclusions about the value of FG loyalists opinions.

Floppybits

gadarnol wrote: »

The OSA application to members of the Oireachtas was discussed in the Legal Affairs forum. The consensus of opinion across there and legal commentary is that it does apply.

On the continuing denial of reality by FG loyalists I note this evening the constitutional crisis over Woulfe has deepened with the Dáil business committee collapsing after all Opposition parties withdrew over FFGG refusal to have McEntee face the Dáil properly. Cabinet confidentiality quoted in a HC case on the LC debacle to protect a memo from the Minister of Ed is seen as hollow and cynical evasion. And SIPO yet to look at Varadkar. But nothing to see here. Draw your own conclusions about the value of FG loyalists opinions.

Sounds like things are starting to unravel. Talk now that the government are looking at getting rid of the Business Committee. It is not a good look, I can't understand if there is nothing wrong with the Woulfe appointment why the Minister just doesn't come in and answer the questions and put this crap to bed.

expectationlost

https://twitter.com/VillageMagIRE/status/1326928112379195394

smurgen

expectationlost wrote: »

https://twitter.com/VillageMagIRE/status/1326928112379195394

That's just straight up corruption. Banana republic.