Mods please check the Moderators Group for an important update on Mod tools. If you do not have access to the group, please PM Niamh. Thanks!

Green Party disintegration / split

1234568

Comments

  • #2


    PommieBast wrote: »
    Maybe the sheer amount of anti-car changes in Dublin city centre is keeping them sweet.

    Or even the pro-cycling and pedestrian changes? (It's all a matter of framing)

    The people who gripe about that kind of thing tend not to be potential Green voters so those kinds of policies cost them nothing politically. They're also a lot faster to implement than things like altering the energy supply, retro-fitting houses or larger rail based infrastructure projects. They may be idealists but they seem to have learned that you need to have some quick wins to show your voters come the next election.


  • #2


    Or even the pro-cycling and pedestrian changes? (It's all a matter of framing)
    True, though I seriously take issue with some such as the coach stop at the top of O'Connell street was turned into bike rack.


  • #2


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/eoghan-murphy-resigns-as-td-for-career-in-international-co-operation-1.4548873

    Eoghan Murphy's surprise resignation triggers a by-election in, wait for it, Hazel Chu's electoral area.

    Will the election bring peace and harmony for our beloved Green Party or will Hazel go rogue and the house of cards come tumbling down?


  • #2


    Chu will run one way or the other. I would bet that this will only cause more internal friction in the party given how she behaved over the Seanad election. She may need to leave the Greens once and for all and go independent or join that purported new party..


  • #2


    Chu will run one way or the other. I would bet that this will only cause more internal friction in the party given how she behaved over the Seanad election. She may need to leave the Greens once and for all and go independent or join that purported new party..

    That Seanad run in hindsight may not have been the best decision and I can’t see her Green Party colleagues being all that happy to back her given how it was handled just a couple of weeks ago.


  • #2


    So the disintegration is back on the cards, should the Greens chose not to run a candidate and Hazel goes for it anyway at least.

    The adage about a week being a long time in politics was never truer!


  • #2


    I don't know. Despite the dire predictions last time around, nobody was expelled, nobody left, and no splinter party emerged.

    I reckon that they'll select Chu, who probably won't win, but will be regarded as a success if she raises her profile further.


  • #2


    If Chu hadn't gone on that ego-driven solo run for the Seanad she'd be looking reasonably OK odds for a seat here. She must be regretting that now.

    I wouldn't put it past her to run as an IND and split the Green vote.


  • #2


    I presume that the Greens will have to ask their voters to continue their transfers for FF & FG since it's in their best interest to have a stable coalition. I can't imagine Chu going along with that though.


  • #2


    can an by-election be held safely with covid restrictions

    Wouldnt be suprised,if this was let idle until september


  • #2


    Blaaz_ wrote: »
    can an by-election be held safely with covid restrictions

    Wouldnt be suprised,if this was let idle until september

    I think it has to be held within 6 months and governments tend to use most of that time so it'll likely be in the late Autumn. By then hopefully every adult who wants to will be vaccinated.


  • #2


    It's a fascinating situation. If she does go for it I do wonder if she will then replace Eamonn Ryan on the ticket in the next general election. Especially if she got elected. They wouldn't have a chance of electing two candidates in a full election and then the risk of splitting the vote so both miss out would be too big a risk you'd feel.


  • #2


    I think it has to be held within 6 months and governments tend to use most of that time so it'll likely be in the late Autumn. By then hopefully every adult who wants to will be vaccinated.

    The last possible dates for it according to Gavan Reilly on Twitter are Friday Nov 19th/Sat Nov 20th. I'd assume given FG will be favourites to retain the seat they'll hold it before then, though.

    I'd guess August personally - likely the lowest corona prevalence point of the year, and a chunk of students/young people will be away on holiday then after the EU Green Certificate comes in. Which should help reduce the SF and Green votes, the only two likely rivals for taking the seat from FG.


  • #2


    Ivan's Bacik is looking for the Labour nomination, it would be an interesting debate between herself and Chu, as too which of them deserves the women's, desendents of immigrants etc, vote.


  • #2


    Augme wrote: »
    It's a fascinating situation. If she does go for it I do wonder if she will then replace Eamonn Ryan on the ticket in the next general election. Especially if she got elected. They wouldn't have a chance of electing two candidates in a full election and then the risk of splitting the vote so both miss out would be too big a risk you'd feel.

    Where's Eamon Ryan going? He's only 57!


  • #2


    Where's Eamon Ryan going? He's only 57!

    He'll be 60 by the time of the next election, he could retire with a nice pension and tend his south facing window boxes


  • #2


    I think it has to be held within 6 months and governments tend to use most of that time so it'll likely be in the late Autumn. By then hopefully every adult who wants to will be vaccinated.

    If a government party wants to win they should be aiming for late September.
    The vaccination program should have done tge heavy lifting by then and there might be a feelgood factor in tbe country.
    However waiting until a budget is unveiled could be problematic as the money tree is definitely going to shed some of its leaves next year.


  • #2


    Where's Eamon Ryan going? He's only 57!


    Off the back of his best results he just scrapped a leadership vote. He's on the down turn and I would the surprised if he takes the chance to get out. Or even is told to get out.

    Strategically, if Chu does get a seat this time around you want her on the ticket next time given her age and ability to cementing as a long term candidate there.


  • #2


    blanch152 wrote: »
    It certainly makes the subject of this thread less likely. While the Greens will shed members at the fringes, it is clear the solid core of the party backs the current approach.
    i'm sure it's been covered in the thread before, but the green party (to a usually green party voting outsider) seems to be two different parties now. one is the older (probably more battle hardened) cohort, and then there's the new cohort of members, who have a broader focus on social justice than the 'traditional' greens.
    but as is the wont of activist and lefty parties, they focus on their differences, rather than focussing on their common ground, and splitting over them.

    and the funny thing is that despite having an awful habit of washing their dirty linen in public, the greens are delivering a lot of what they campaigned for; but many supporters forget they didn't actually win the election, and cannot do everything they might have wanted.


  • #2


    ^ Chu's run for the Seanad is the perfect example of that. All the focus that week should have been glowing feel good coverage on the Green's achieving a big win on the environment, and implementing part of their election manifesto, with the Climate Action Bill. Instead it was all coverage/focus on Chu's ego-driven solo-run and the bickering between the different wings in the party about it.

    Ask a neutral observer about happenings in the last few months for the Green's and all you'll hear about is drama about Chu, and very little about the Climate Action Bill. Which is a disaster for the party's popularity with the wider public.


  • #2


    one story, which seems to have been almost universally missed, is this; happened under ryan's tenure, but i'm not 100% if he's responsible.
    it's the 2c per litre levied on fuel to maintain ireland's 90 day stockpile, but any excess over and above what is actually spent is now ringfenced for the climate action fund:

    https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/3718f-nora-levy-legislation-passes-in-the-dail/


  • #2


    Blut2 wrote: »
    ^ Chu's run for the Seanad is the perfect example of that. All the focus that week should have been glowing feel good coverage on the Green's achieving a big win on the environment, and implementing part of their election manifesto, with the Climate Action Bill. Instead it was all coverage/focus on Chu's ego-driven solo-run and the bickering between the different wings in the party about it.

    Ask a neutral observer about happenings in the last few months for the Green's and all you'll hear about is drama about Chu, and very little about the Climate Action Bill. Which is a disaster for the party's popularity with the wider public.

    It's not just Chu.

    Catherine Martin, Saoirse McHugh and others have all played their part in damaging the GP.


  • #2


    i'm sure it's been covered in the thread before, but the green party (to a usually green party voting outsider) seems to be two different parties now. one is the older (probably more battle hardened) cohort, and then there's the new cohort of members, who have a broader focus on social justice than the 'traditional' greens.
    but as is the wont of activist and lefty parties, they focus on their differences, rather than focussing on their common ground, and splitting over them.

    and the funny thing is that despite having an awful habit of washing their dirty linen in public, the greens are delivering a lot of what they campaigned for; but many supporters forget they didn't actually win the election, and cannot do everything they might have wanted.

    But has that not been the problem for all the smaller parties in coalitions. For their supporters it's generally been a case of they haven't done instead of what they have done. Going into coalition means you are limited in what you can achieve because you have a coalition partner you have to compromise with. For smaller parties it's an issue because while they can achieve more in government than in opposition its easier to sit on the sidelines are complain. Also smaller parties are more likely to be more ideological driven enabled by a smaller and less diverse support base.

    It's been the challenge for every small party in Irish coalitions.


  • #2


    yes, but i think it was exacerbated for the greens by the significant change in the party base in the few years leading to that election.


  • #2


    awec wrote: »
    It's not just Chu.

    Catherine Martin, Saoirse McHugh and others have all played their part in damaging the GP.

    Thats absolutely true. My point though was more just relating to recent happenings specifically.


  • #2


    Why is Eamonn Ryam not out there announcing and explaining the Metrolink project and how it will revolutionise PT in Dublin, and how he is accelerating its provision? He should be pushing the Limerick to Limerick Junction double tracking and provision of better rail connection from Cork to Limerick, and Limerick to Dublin. He should be committing to the Cork Limerick M20 project.

    Instead he is talking about the likes of the Athenry to Tuam railway.

    The GP now has a definite membership looking for social justice - and he is not part of that cohort.


  • #2


    i'm sure it's been covered in the thread before, but the green party (to a usually green party voting outsider) seems to be two different parties now. one is the older (probably more battle hardened) cohort, and then there's the new cohort of members, who have a broader focus on social justice than the 'traditional' greens.
    but as is the wont of activist and lefty parties, they focus on their differences, rather than focussing on their common ground, and splitting over them.

    and the funny thing is that despite having an awful habit of washing their dirty linen in public, the greens are delivering a lot of what they campaigned for; but many supporters forget they didn't actually win the election, and cannot do everything they might have wanted.
    As a former GP member, I found three broad divisions within the party


    1) The pre-2007 people who stayed around despite disliking Eamon Ryan, disliking the deal the GPs got when entering government with FF, and especially disliking staying in government so long when Gormley/etc wanted out but Ryan spent all his internal capital on convincing the party to stay in. This effectively killed the party as a force in Irish Politics/a force for Environmentalism in Ireland for a decade, but instead of Eamon Ryan getting oppobrium for his driving role in it - he gets lauded for 'sticking with the Greens'



    2) The Eamon Ryan supporters
    2a) Hardcore supporters who draw no distinction between Ryan and the GP. To them they are the one and the same thing, and yes there is a significant cult of personality within the party where any even milquetoast criticism of Ryan is met with harsh attack.
    2b) Well-meaning but not particularly environmental-policy informed types who like the feelgood feeling of being a member, but don't actually want to learn anything about environmental (or any other kind of) policy. They support Ryan because his narrative also makes them feel good. They always acted like anything a GP politician did was inherently the right choice, and any agreement the GP signed up to was likewise the right choice - because the GP was good so anything it or it's politicians did was also good.



    3) The young social justice types who live and die on twitter. They're just as uninformed as 2b) but with an arrogance and condescension that's pretty breathtaking for a group that mostly used internal whatsapp groups for posting tweets and asking for likes/retweets. I still see some of the names pop up in newspapers articles and I can see that they have a long and successful career in working in NGOs with no clear purpose or mission but that uses all the fashionable buzzwords to tackle its ill-defined social mission.



    Outside that, I also met many individuals who were deeply knowledgeable and incredibly passionate about many aspects of environmentalism and social justice, but they were almost one-and-all only in the party for lack of any other place to be - policy has always been largely ignored by actual Green Party politicians, despite the GP having some really talented and intelligent people who have spent years working on such.


  • #2


    i think i could make a punt as to which group you'd slot into?


  • #2


    None, I was only a member for just over a year and a portion of that was during covid. I hadn't been involving in politics in any way since the heydays of the recession and I figured I'd dip my toe in anticipation of the the GE scheduled for last year, do a bit of canvassing etc etc etc. Happy to have gotten involved rather than 'hurling from the ditch' but am also happy I left the party when I did (and not because of the PFG or anything like that).


  • #2


    None, I was only a member for just over a year and a portion of that was during covid. I hadn't been involving in politics in any way since the heydays of the recession and I figured I'd dip my toe in anticipation of the the GE scheduled for last year, do a bit of canvassing etc etc etc. Happy to have gotten involved rather than 'hurling from the ditch' but am also happy I left the party when I did (and not because of the PFG or anything like that).

    From what you saw in your team in the party do you think there will be a split or do how do you think the future will go for the party (I presume you're not too positive about it since you left).


Leave a Comment

Rich Text Editor. To edit a paragraph's style, hit tab to get to the paragraph menu. From there you will be able to pick one style. Nothing defaults to paragraph. An inline formatting menu will show up when you select text. Hit tab to get into that menu. Some elements, such as rich link embeds, images, loading indicators, and error messages may get inserted into the editor. You may navigate to these using the arrow keys inside of the editor and delete them with the delete or backspace key.