New warmflow oil condenser boiler keeps cutting out

corkgsxr

John.G wrote: »

No, proportional is the "45 deg" line, constant pressure is the "90 deg* straight line(s) and the "curves" are like traditional pump curves, ie traditional fixed speed curves.

After much staring I believe your right.

Still dislike them. I replaced loads I fitted

Wearb

Turn that boiler thermostat to about 1/4 way from fully anticlockwise and it might help until you get it sorted.

jimf

can you post a pic of the print out from the passport

John.G

needtoknowasap wrote: »

John.G wrote: »

It could work (I have seen one pumping the wrong way for 8 years) but the thermostat is then measuring the return temperature, the boiler is then raising this by another 15 to 25c, and with the stat turned full up will mean that the hi limit stat would certainly operate fairly often.
Will get back to you re pump, can you try and establish the arrow direction or a photo of the pump bottom.[/quot

Ok thanks as you can probably tell we have no clue about boilers hence why we paid good money to get it replaced. Its quite hard to see but the only arrow i can see is on the bottom of the pump pointing towards the heating return sticker.

Thats no problem.

Re these four lights. one on the very top and the three others.

The very top one shows what mode the pump is selected to and the other three, the speed setting, when all three are displayed it means that the top speed is selected, these three should stay illuminated IMO as long as the pump is running and if they are not with the very top light still illuminated it probably means that the pump has cut out and stopped on thermal overload and will self restart when it cools down.
That setting is far too high IMO, its a 7 meter pump at that setting, also the pump is probably picking up an awful lot of heat in that position, not helping the situation.

First, Turn down the thermostat NOW to mid way or even lower, the when the pump is again displaying those 3 lines, press the mode button briefly until you only have one line illuminated, you should still get plenty of circulation as it will still be a 4 meter pump.

The pump is pumping to the return of the boiler which is correct by your description of the arrow direction.

Wearb

John.G wrote: »

needtoknowasap wrote: »

Thats no problem.

Re these four lights. one on the very top and the three others.

The very top one shows what mode the pump is selected to and the other three, the speed setting, when all three are displayed it means that the top speed is selected, these three should stay illuminated IMO as long as the pump is running and if they are not with the very top light still illuminated it probably means that the pump has cut out and stopped on thermal overload and will self restart when it cools down.
That setting is far too high IMO, its a 7 meter pump at that setting, also the pump is probably picking up an awful lot of heat in that position, not helping the situation.

First, Turn down the thermostat NOW to mid way or even lower, the when the pump is again displaying those 3 lines, press the mode button briefly until you only have one line illuminated, you should still get plenty of circulation as it will still be a 4 meter pump.

All assuming the system is clean and not gunked up.

Was it power flushed before new install?

needtoknowasap

John.G wrote: »

needtoknowasap wrote: »

Thats no problem.

Re these four lights. one on the very top and the three others.

The very top one shows what mode the pump is selected to and the other three, the speed setting, when all three are displayed it means that the top speed is selected, these three should stay illuminated IMO as long as the pump is running and if they are not with the very top light still illuminated it probably means that the pump has cut out and stopped on thermal overload and will self restart when it cools down.
That setting is far too high IMO, its a 7 meter pump at that setting, also the pump is probably picking up an awful lot of heat in that position, no helping the situation.

First, Turn down the thermostat NOW to mid way or even lower, the when the pump is again displaying those 3 lines, press the mode button briefly until you only have one line illuminated, you should still get plenty of circulation as it will still be a 4 meter pump.

Thanks its turned down now and will see how it goes in the morning hopefully it will work. The open fire blazing all day so no need for heating tonight thankfully.

needtoknowasap

jimf wrote: »

can you post a pic of the print out from the passport

.

John.G

Just before you go can you say that those 3 lights were lighting sometimes and not at other times?, also set the pump to that one light setting.

Friend told me that you should have got a error code if pump stopped for any reason and more than likely that the lights go out a few seconds after you finish your selection or press the mode button briefly to see the settings.

jimf

needtoknowasap wrote: »

.

its not bad but a bit overaired for a bx burner

anyway this is not the cause of your issue atm

does anybody know if dab have sorted the issues they had with pumps

needtoknowasap

John.G wrote: »

Just before you go can you say that those 3 lights were lighting sometimes and not at other times?, also set the pump to that one light setting.

Friend told me that you should have got a error code if pump stopped for any reason and more than likely that the lights go out a few seconds after you finish your selection or press the mode button briefly to see the settings.

Where would the error code appear? Tried everything suggested this morning and still same happening it fires up at first then cuts out. Lights go off after a few seconds of it starting. When press the mode button they come back on briefly. I have set it to just one light, the pipe marked heating flow is hot to touch but not getting heat to the house.

John.G

I think that the lights do go out normally after making your selectiom, especially when they come on again briefly when you press the mode button again. I will dig out the eManual later, if you keep your hand on the pump you should feel a slight tremor if its running continuously. For the moment assume that it is. Any error codes I would think would be displayed where those lights are. But I am pretty sure that the pump is running continuously.

Are you still venting air out of the PRV when you open it, if so then you may have a open vented system with a small (Feed & expansion) tank in the attic, you should also see a bigger tank alongside it, check if this (small) tank has got say 6 ins of water in it and see if its hot.
If you haven't got this open vented system you will have a pressurised system and you will see a red expansion vessel somewhere, there should be a pressure gauge near it, have a look for this after checking for the feed and expansion tank first.

Forgot to say to slacken the vent plug right in the middle of the pump to release any air but do not overtighten it when closing.

Also, if you look at photo 1 in post#19 you will see a automatic air vent in right bottom corner, just slacken the black cap on this and let any air out, you can leave it open except that it is dribbling water, if so, close it again.

ShaneC1600

Do you need to reset anything to get it to work or is it out of action now completely?
Does the high limit stat kick in or is the burner going out before reaching a high temperature? Pump is incorrectly installed facing up as stated earlier but if water is not circulating when the boiler is on the next action would be activation of the high limit stat.

John.G

The control stat might be catching it before it reaches the hi limit level 0f ~ 110/113C.

If there is a lot of air in the system then you will normally hear it as/in a fairly noisy pump, it should be relatively easy to see if the pump is running even if it can't be heard by removing the vent screw and looking at the end of the shaft. (assuming it is some what similar to a conventional pump end).
These A rated pumps are sensitive to magnetite I think so hope its just not stopped but one would expect some error code
Jimf also said there pumps can be troublesome.

DGOBS

When I zoomed into pic, pump flow direction does seem to look correct.
Maybe just the pic angle, but it the pump valve nearest heating return half closed? (I think its just the angle)

Just saying:

John.G

Not recommending it but should it fail so rapidly, I know of one Grundfos Selectric running away merrily in a upright position for at least the past 16 years

Wearb

John.G wrote: »

Not recommending it but should it fail so rapidly, I know of one Grundfos Selectric running away merrily in a upright position for at least the past 16 years

Lots of them do run in that position. The problem arises if there is "air" in the system, it gets trapped in that part of the pump where it needs water to lubricate the shaft.

needtoknowasap

John.G wrote: »

I think that the lights do go out normally after making your selectiom, especially when they come on again briefly when you press the mode button again. I will dig out the eManual later, if you keep your hand on the pump you should feel a slight tremor if its running continuously. For the moment assume that it is. Any error codes I would think would be displayed where those lights are. But I am pretty sure that the pump is running continuously.

Are you still venting air out of the PRV when you open it, if so then you may have a open vented system with a small (Feed & expansion) tank in the attic, you should also see a bigger tank alongside it, check if this (small) tank has got say 6 ins of water in it and see if its hot.
If you haven't got this open vented system you will have a pressurised system and you will see a red expansion vessel somewhere, there should be a pressure gauge near it, have a look for this after checking for the feed and expansion tank first.

Forgot to say to slacken the vent plug right in the middle of the pump to release any air but do not overtighten it when closing.

Also, if you look at photo 1 in post#19 you will see a automatic air vent in right bottom corner, just slacken the black cap on this and let any air out, you can leave it open except that it is dribbling water, if so, close it again.

The red expansion tank is in the hotpress but there is no pressure gauge anywhere. Have tried to loosen the black cap and the vent plug it fired up for about 2 mins then cut out same as usual. Its like as if its heating the water in the boiler but just failing to pump it into the house.

John.G

The expansion tank (in a hot press) and system is normally pressurised to 1bar to1.25bar by opening a isolating valve (or two) somewhere and there will "have to" be a pressure gauge somewhere as well, sometimes on the boiler.
There are two other alternatives, one is that the open vented system has been converted into a semi sealed system where the cold feed from the (small) tank has a non return valve and will replinish any water loss or loss due to venting automatically so no pressure gauge is needed, if no small tank then sometimes this cold feed is just taken off the cold water outlet from the main cold water storage tank, again with a non return valve and no pressure gauge fitted or required.

You will have to do a bit of searching, follow the expansion vessel pipe back to where it joins into another one and you may come across something.

Also, have you two (big&small) tanks in your attic or just one big one.

If no water has been making up the loss due to venting etc then you will get no circulation through the system if the water level is very low.

So you will have to sort this out before even firing the boiler again.

These are the sort of items you are looking for.

John.G

See the above attachments, may be of help.

DGOBS

I think we can safely assume its a pump, water pressure (leak) or circulation issue.
You should not be having to deal ith this yourself, thats what your installer is for, and I think at this point you need to get him back.

While we are all willing to help you here, I don't think there is much more anyone can do for you remotely.

jimf

my money is on a faulty pump

John.G

I won't take you up on that Jimf, I can donate my Salmson NYL33 which was still running perfectly and silently after 18 years when I replaced it two years ago with a 6M Wilo Yonos Pico simply because I wanted to see for myself the different operating modes.
Joking aside, it should be very easy to determine if a pump is stopped or not, all you need is a screwdriver!

It seems that the Evosta 2 engine is blocked ...
If the Evosta 2 circulator, not completely degassed, has been unoperational with water for a long time, for example a few months (the period may vary depending on the hardness of the water used in the system), limescale may be formed that can determine the block in the rotation of the motor, highlighted by the relative error shown on the display (2 flashes). In these cases it is possible to try to unlock the motor shaft by removing the vent plug and acting with a screwdriver on the shaft, as shown in the Evosta 2 how to Manual deblocking the shaft:

Dtp1979

The chances of limescale causing this issue is nil John.
Make sure both auto air vents are closed OP

jimf

John.G wrote: »

I won't take you up on that Jimf, I can donate my Salmson NYL33 which was still running perfectly and silently after 18 years when I replaced it two years ago with a 6M Wilo Yonos Pico simply because I wanted to see for myself the different operating modes.
Joking aside, it should be very easy to determine if a pump is stopped or not, all you need is a screwdriver!

It seems that the Evosta 2 engine is blocked ...
If the Evosta 2 circulator, not completely degassed, has been unoperational with water for a long time, for example a few months (the period may vary depending on the hardness of the water used in the system), limescale may be formed that can determine the block in the rotation of the motor, highlighted by the relative error shown on the display (2 flashes). In these cases it is possible to try to unlock the motor shaft by removing the vent plug and acting with a screwdriver on the shaft, as shown in the Evosta 2 how to Manual deblocking the shaft:

imho john i think they have been fecking around too much with pumps

but i do know of at least 4 pumps that have failed in the first month in use this year so far supplier own brand pumps god only knows made by whom

one lasted 2 days and one other less than a week

corkgsxr

I only fit grundfos myself

needtoknowasap

John.G wrote: »

The expansion tank (in a hot press) and system is normally pressurised to 1bar to1.25bar by opening a isolating valve (or two) somewhere and there will "have to" be a pressure gauge somewhere as well, sometimes on the boiler.
There are two other alternatives, one is that the open vented system has been converted into a semi sealed system where the cold feed from the (small) tank has a non return valve and will replinish any water loss or loss due to venting automatically so no pressure gauge is needed, if no small tank then sometimes this cold feed is just taken off the cold water outlet from the main cold water storage tank, again with a non return valve and no pressure gauge fitted or required.

You will have to do a bit of searching, follow the expansion vessel pipe back to where it joins into another one and you may come across something.

Also, have you two (big&small) tanks in your attic or just one big one.

If no water has been making up the loss due to venting etc then you will get no circulation through the system if the water level is very low.

So you will have to sort this out before even firing the boiler again.

These are the sort of items you are looking for.

Thanks for all your help, hoping can contact the installer tomorrow his phone has been off all weekend. As usual though it will probably work as normal when he arrives and make us look like we're imagining things yet again

Dtp1979

Cant say I’ve ever had 1 issue with own branded pumps in the last 4 years.

John.G

I know of one Dab Evosta 4/7 which was sold by heat merchants as a HM 40/70 or something like that and its still OK after I think ~ 6 years. There are probably re branded inferior quality products out there alright though.
System gas boilers all have internal circulating pumps, wonder what the failure rate of those is.

John.G

corkgsxr wrote: »

I only fit grundfos myself

The Grundfos UPS2 is probably long lasting but its proportional pressure mode was pretty poor as its max PP selectable head of ~ 3.2M was useless in lots of cases and the pump had to be run on one of its constant curve modes, even the UPS3 max setting was no great shakes @ ~ 3.6M, any pump with PP (or CP) mode should be capable of a PP setting up to 4.5/5M. My system requires a 3M head at 15 LPM so I have to set the PP mode at 4.4M to achieve this which results in a power requirement of ~ 16 to 22W depending on heat demand.

meercat

Where’s the pump actually connected to. My money is that’s it’s only pumping when the boiler is firing causing the high limit stat to trip on shutdown. Either way get the installer back out as others have said