Brexit trade deals

richie123

dh1985 wrote: »

They weren't to long throwing ireland under the bus in 2010 making the public exchequer pick up the debts of private institutions.
As well as that they rejected any debt reduction whilst at the same time brokering a deal with Greece on the same. If you think the likes of the French,Germans.or Dutch give a damn about Ireland your sadly mistaken. In fact the sad thing about Brexit is we are losing our closest allie in the EU and biggest trading partner and not just the bunch of clowns

He had no bother dumping the dup.and they're British ...closet Ally ...give me a break

dh1985

richie123 wrote: »

I'll agree with you there.
They won't throw Ireland under the bus this time because it would risk gfa and the breakup of the eu,i hope I'm right.
Closet Ally? Boris Johnson gives a **** about Ireland ? Give me a break

Yes, Historically Britain has been. I am sure you would agree ireland has more common in rules and regulations with Britain than the likes of Hungary or somewhere. The majority of our laws are based off theirs. If I remember correctly the brits gave big loans to Ireland in 2010/2011 to bail us out when the EU played hardball.

I actually find it bewildering on a farming forum how men and women of agriculture in ireland are looking for punishment and lack of trade resolution on our largest market. Whilst on the other hand giving credit to an establishment controlled by a few large European countries who are trying to import competitor product under mercosur. That's a strange mentality to me.

wrangler

dh1985 wrote: »

Yes, Historically Britain has been. I am sure you would agree ireland has more common in rules and regulations with Britain than the likes of Hungary or somewhere. The majority of our laws are based off theirs. If I remember correctly the brits gave big loans to Ireland in 2010/2011 to bail us out when the EU played hardball.

I actually find it bewildering on a farming forum how men and women of agriculture in ireland are looking for punishment and lack of trade resolution on our largest market. Whilst on the other hand giving credit to an establishment controlled by a few large European countries who are trying to import competitor product under mercosur. That's a strange mentality to me.

I'd say there's a good few Irish sheepfarmers hoping the UK will crash out.

alps

richie123 wrote: »

He had no bother dumping the dup.and they're British ...closet Ally ...give me a break

All those on the mainland consider anyone on this side to be Irish....regardless of their allegiance

richie123

dh1985 wrote: »

Yes, Historically Britain has been. I am sure you would agree ireland has more common in rules and regulations with Britain than the likes of Hungary or somewhere. The majority of our laws are based off theirs. If I remember correctly the brits gave big loans to Ireland in 2010/2011 to bail us out when the EU played hardball.

I actually find it bewildering on a farming forum how men and women of agriculture in ireland are looking for punishment and lack of trade resolution on our largest market. Whilst on the other hand giving credit to an establishment controlled by a few large European countries who are trying to import competitor product under mercosur. That's a strange mentality to me.

The most important word there is 'historically'

I'm bewildered myself that you find it bewildering.
We have an an eejit of a pm as our closest neighbour that are demanding the impossible not willing to play by an agreed set of rules and you find it bewildering.

He's dangerous and foolish in the extreme.
How can you defend that ?
He never had an interest Ina deal
They want there cake and eat it making fools out eu negotiators.
How are you defending that ?
Mercosur is years away and they already import a certain amount of south american beef as we speak ..trade is a two way thing wether you like it or not.

richie123

alps wrote: »

All those on the mainland consider anyone on this side to be Irish....regardless of their allegiance

Not nesscessarily he had no choice when biden was elected ...at least he had the sense to not upset the gfa or risk any return to violence

20silkcut

dh1985 wrote: »

Yes, Historically Britain has been. I am sure you would agree ireland has more common in rules and regulations with Britain than the likes of Hungary or somewhere. The majority of our laws are based off theirs. If I remember correctly the brits gave big loans to Ireland in 2010/2011 to bail us out when the EU played hardball.

I actually find it bewildering on a farming forum how men and women of agriculture in ireland are looking for punishment and lack of trade resolution on our largest market. Whilst on the other hand giving credit to an establishment controlled by a few large European countries who are trying to import competitor product under mercosur. That's a strange mentality to me.

The only reason our laws are so similar is because until 1922 we were the same country. Our currency was pegged to sterling until 1979 as well.
From a farming point of view we have far more in common with the likes of France and Germany than we have with Britain in terms of the importance we place on the farming industry. The family farm is a core part of EU farming policy.
Britain historically has placed far more emphasis on being an industrial economy with farming relegated well down the pecking order with land ownership being the preserve of lords and dukes and aristocrats.
They are now proposing post brexit to essentially turn Britain into a parkland and make farmers glorified park rangers.
I’m glad to see Britain will no longer have any input into EU agricultural policy. They were nowhere near on the same page as us in that regard.
Historically Blindly producing cheap beef for Britain has led to nothing only poverty for beef farmers in this county. And by far the worst performing of all sectors. Which only enriched the few at the top of the tree. Be no harm to see that status quo shaken up. A new way will be found. Much more options being part of a more agri friendly EU. Better off being part of a large trading bloc than tied to an inward looking brexit Britain, who will be looking for the cheapest food possible , in the coming years.

yosemitesam1

20silkcut wrote: »

Historically Blindly producing cheap beef for Britain has led to nothing only poverty for beef farmers in this county. Be no harm to see that status quo shaken up. A new way will be found. Better off being part of a large trading bloc than tied to an inward looking brexit Britain in the coming years.

The uk is our highest price market for beef. Beef prices are f****d without free access

alps

https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1338087730690060288?s=19

Some movement...?

NcdJd

It's going to be a **** storm whatever way you look at it come January. You can see at the moment the delays at Dover as UK businesses are stock piling goods.

Importing and exporting to the UK whether under WTO terms or whether there is an agreement will require, Sads, transits and low value manifests. All these are subject to customs interventions. The Transiting through the UK from Ireland or to mainland Europe for irish transportation companies i think will not be an option considering whats currently going on in Dover. Straight out of Rosslare or Cork. And then are these ports ready for the volumes ?

Will be interesting come January. Also I suspect companies will use more airfreight carriers to bypass this even for 2 to 3 day delivery services that would have traditionally went on a road service.

alps

NcdJd wrote: »

It's going to be a **** storm whatever way you look at it come January. You can see at the moment the delays at Dover as UK businesses are stock piling goods.

Importing and exporting to the UK whether under WTO terms or whether there is an agreement will require, Sads, transits and low value manifests. All these are subject to customs interventions. The Transiting through the UK from Ireland or to mainland Europe for irish transportation companies i think will not be an option considering whats currently going on in Dover. Straight out of Rosslare or Cork. And then are these ports ready for the volumes ?

Will be interesting come January. Also I suspect companies will use more airfreight carriers to bypass this even for 2 to 3 day delivery services that would have traditionally went on a road service.

Cork comfy and very much underutilised.

Rosslare traffic up considerably, but still only 4 arrivals from GB. These are the only ones that will cause hold up.

Will they now have to split the incoming GB traffic from the outgoing?..bit of work in that..

richie123

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

The uk is our highest price market for beef. Beef prices are f****d without free access

As if it wasn't ****ed already ?

yosemitesam1

richie123 wrote: »

As if it wasn't ****ed already ?

All the more reason to try and hold onto the few scraps we have. The alternative is even worse

dh1985

richie123 wrote: »

The most important word there is 'historically'

I'm bewildered myself that you find it bewildering.
We have an an eejit of a pm as our closest neighbour that are demanding the impossible not willing to play by an agreed set of rules and you find it bewildering.

He's dangerous and foolish in the extreme.
How can you defend that ?
He never had an interest Ina deal
They want there cake and eat it making fools out eu negotiators.
How are you defending that ?
Mercosur is years away and they already import a certain amount of south american beef as we speak ..trade is a two way thing wether you like it or not.

What I find bewildering is as a nation on the periphery of europe where our largest export market outside of the usa and largest for agricultural products, where our neighbours provide the only land bridge to europe that people within that nation find it amusing that the brits are in such a precarious position with there backs against the wall and instead of hoping for light at the end of the tunnel, are hoping it's a train coming the other way. There is going.to be no winners out of brexit and its damage limitation at this stage. As en exporting country separated from europe with Britain in the middle we have more to.lose than most. Possibly even the uk.
No.doubt boris is not helping here but retaliation against boris is not going to help the 60 million other Britain's or 5 million on this island.

Danzy

dh1985 wrote: »

What I find bewildering is as a nation on the periphery of europe where our largest export market outside of the usa and largest for agricultural products, where our neighbours provide the only land bridge to europe that people within that nation find it amusing that the brits are in such a precarious position with there backs against the wall and instead of hoping for light at the end of the tunnel, are hoping it's a train coming the other way. There is going.to be no winners out of brexit and its damage limitation at this stage. As en exporting country separated from europe with Britain in the middle we have more to.lose than most. Possibly even the uk.
No.doubt boris is not helping here but retaliation against boris is not going to help the 60 million other Britain's or 5 million on this island.

We could very easily be harder hit than the UK. Who'll have a currency that will weaken to help exports and have now enabled their Central Bank to directly finance the Exchequer, in case of emergency.

WTO means Irish beef being sold at near 8 Euro a kg to British wholesale buyers.

richie123

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

All the more reason to try and hold onto the few scraps we have. The alternative is even worse

True to an extent.
Another way of looking at it is it'll finish the majority who were really struggling anyway up to now and they'll try something else that would be more profitable.lets be honest it wouldn't be hard beat beef farming in terms of profitability..the only man to make money out of beef in this country was our friend Larry .

Danzy

richie123 wrote: »

True to an extent.
Another way of looking at it is it'll finish the majority who were really struggling anyway up to now and they'll try something else that would be more profitable.lets be honest it wouldn't be hard beat beef farming in terms of profitability..the only man to make money out of beef in this country was our friend Larry .

The most efficient and profitable beef farmer in Ireland will be wiped out if WTO terms are the norm going forward.

The tariffs are so severe that it removes any chance of selling it in to the UK market.

yosemitesam1

richie123 wrote: »

True to an extent.
Another way of looking at it is it'll finish the majority who were really struggling anyway up to now and they'll try something else that would be more profitable.lets be honest it wouldn't be hard beat beef farming in terms of profitability..the only man to make money out of beef in this country was our friend Larry .

It will finish those most reliant on getting a few bob out of beef. The least efficient are often the least reliant on earning a living from it

tanko

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

It will finish those most reliant on getting a few bob out of beef. The least efficient are often the least reliant on earning a living from it

Who are these people who rely on getting a few bob out of selling beef to make a living?

jaymla627

tanko wrote: »

Who are these people who rely on getting a few bob out of selling beef to make a living?

The merchants,vets,machinery dealers etc plus to a lesser extent the agents slash hauliers plus your big contract feedlot farmers seem to be the only Groups getting a twist out of beef farming plus your bord bia employees and highly paid department of agriculture staff, everyone else is subbing their hobby with their sfp our the best operators are keeping their sfp and making a small profit most years.....
All the above need the farmer to keep on going to maintain the industry but the farmer is probably aswell of rewilding the place under the next cap and forget about farming the land

Donegalforever

Danzy wrote: »

Cameron pretty much was the only driving force for Remain.

Unfortunately he did not put much effort into convincing his public to vote Remain/

20silkcut

Danzy wrote: »

The most efficient and profitable beef farmer in Ireland will be wiped out if WTO terms are the norm going forward.

The tariffs are so severe that it removes any chance of selling it in to the UK market.

Who is the most efficient beef farmer in Ireland ??
Is it Larry goodman ??

I’m sure I give a shoite .

Danzy

20silkcut wrote: »

Who is the most efficient beef farmer in Ireland ??
Is it Larry goodman ??

I’m sure I give a shoite .

No idea but the lad who doesn't have land or a local climate on Which cattle can only be housed for 6 to 8 weeks will go before him.

That's most of us.

WTO terms are especially harsh on beef and food exports.

If Irish beef is subjected to WTO terms then beef farming is over in this State.

Fine Day

We should be optimistic here. Its depressing reading these posts. Lads are putting themselves into overdrive. People are not going to give up eating. Life will go on weather deal or no deal. Agricultural is the back bone of the European economy. I have every faith it will survive. I am not going give up on it just yet.

Cavanjack

Danzy wrote: »

No idea but the lad who doesn't have land or a local climate on Which cattle can only be housed for 6 to 8 weeks will go before him.

That's most of us.

WTO terms are especially harsh on beef and food exports.

If Irish beef is subjected to WTO terms then beef farming is over in this State.

We’ll be bailed out by the eu/government for a few years before that happens

Jjameson

Theheff wrote: »

We should be optimistic here. Its depressing reading these posts. Lads are putting themselves into overdrive. People are not going to give up eating. Life will go on weather deal or no deal. Agricultural is the back bone of the European economy. I have every faith it will survive. I am not going give up on it just yet.

Given that dates and deadlines have lots of elasticity, any agreements will be at best perpetual and tenuous I think your post is about the most sensible I’ve seen.

Politicians are keen to predict Armageddon and chaos, while supposedly doing marvellous things in private talks, saving us all, Self promoting nonsense.
The beef processing cartel used the same nonsense it to great effect once and if we don’t get a grip they will do it again.

older by the day

No one can be to proud or bashing about brexit. We see the big difference in cattle price when sterling is strong or weak. Even the man trying to sell (get rid of) Calves in spring. All Irish products. No point worrying but I'd be hoping for as good a deal for both as possible

Donegalforever

It looks like there is a game of poker in progress at the moment.

Danzy

That said I think a deal will be done, both sides can say the other has more to lose but the damage to both would be severe.

Fine Day

Danzy wrote: »

That said I think a deal will be done, both sides can say the other has more to lose but the damage to both would be severe.

I am thinking the same. There seems to be a bit of cat & mouse going on. Both side will agree something before the end of December I reckon & it will be business ad normal again.