Brexit trade deals

Green&Red

Saw this, while not unexpected it is really going to British and Irish farmers. Cheaper food, created to a lower standard, I’d imagine it was a prerequisite of any US deal


https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2020/10/12/government-overturns-measures-aiming-to-guarantee-uk-food-standards-in-new-law/

richie123

Green&Red wrote: »

Saw this, while not unexpected it is really going to British and Irish farmers. Cheaper food, created to a lower standard, I’d imagine it was a prerequisite of any US deal


https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2020/10/12/government-overturns-measures-aiming-to-guarantee-uk-food-standards-in-new-law/

Tories are hell bent on importing from America or anywhere or else just using it as leverage to get a better deal out of the eu.tis one big sorry mess.

richie123

richie123 wrote: »

Tories are hell bent on importing from America or anywhere or else just using it as leverage to get a better deal out of the eu.tis one big sorry mess.

Sure the germans want to import beef from south america to be able to sell cars etc

Ireland will be in a bad place with Britain out of Europe. Tax harmonisation etc will hurt ireland and I can see the agri sector suffering very badly

richie123

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sure the germans want to import beef from south america to be able to sell cars etc

Ireland will be in a bad place with Britain out of Europe. Tax harmonisation etc will hurt ireland and I can see the agri sector suffering very badly

I think Europe imports a certain amount tariff free...the British are looking for a free for all ..or just looking to leverage it to extract a better deal more than likely

Grueller

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sure the germans want to import beef from south america to be able to sell cars etc

Ireland will be in a bad place with Britain out of Europe. Tax harmonisation etc will hurt ireland and I can see the agri sector suffering very badly

Not really. The German Ag minister has torpedoed the Mercosur deal for the minute over food standards. Makes a bit of a mockery of the we need big Phil narrative after he pushed the deal.

_Brian

Grueller wrote: »

Not really. The German Ag minister has torpedoed the Mercosur deal for the minute over food standards. Makes a bit of a mockery of the we need big Phil narrative after he pushed the deal.

It would appear to me he was bullying that deal through for some personal reason, soon as they got rid of him in Europe the others started standing against it.

richie123

_Brian wrote: »

It would appear to me he was bullying that deal through for some personal reason, soon as they got rid of him in Europe the others started standing against it.

If you read up on that deal...it benefited Ireland overall better in other industries .. pharma and dairy would u believe...hammered beef alright but overall ireland would have done better overall. Plus beef is week fcjed either way so!I'll be hammered for saying that

_Brian

richie123 wrote: »

If you read up on that deal...it benefited Ireland overall better in other industries .. pharma and dairy would u believe...hammered beef alright but overall ireland would have done better overall. Plus beef is week fcjed either way so!I'll be hammered for saying that

No matter what that deal was at the cost of more and more reainforest being destroyed, even while its a possibility they are burning in advance... Kill it, and kill it forever..


I would go further and say we should boycot all amazonian based countries where the amazon rainforest is shrinking..

richie123

_Brian wrote: »

No matter what that deal was at the cost of more and more reainforest being destroyed, even while its a possibility they are burning in advance... Kill it, and kill it forever..


I would go further and say we should boycot all amazonian based countries where the amazon rainforest is shrinking..

You'd think land was never reclaimed in this country..we reclaimed thousands of acres in this country over the years forestry low lying ground etc...why can't they ? That's the argument your up against

_Brian

richie123 wrote: »

You'd think land was never reclaimed in this country..we reclaimed thousands of acres in this country over the years forestry low lying ground etc...why can't they ? That's the argument your up against

Suppose the answer is allot of lowland here with at was reclaimed out of bog could easy enough be going back. That might be closer than many are comfortable with.

The case majority of the forestry cleared here was forced under British colonial rule to steal the timber for shipbuilding

richie123

_Brian wrote: »

Suppose the answer is allot of lowland here with at was reclaimed out of bog could easy enough be going back. That might be closer than many are comfortable with.

The case majority of the forestry cleared here was forced under British colonial rule to steal the timber for shipbuilding

Tell that to a struggling farmer in Brazil ..
The reasons are irrelevant really it happened and it's very hard tell others then that they can't do it ...very hard to know wat the answer is
We were just lucky in this country that we had it reclaimed before the climate became a serious issue

Bass Reeves

richie123 wrote: »

Tell that to a struggling farmer in Brazil ..
The reasons are irrelevant really it happened and it's very hard tell others then that they can't do it ...very hard to know wat the answer is
We were just lucky in this country that we had it reclaimed before the climate became a serious issue

First off it not struggling farmers that clear rain Forrest. It large cattle ranchers and land speculators. It's actually a no win situation. As well indegenous tribal communities are dislocated or even killed as rainforest is cleared.

It a highly inefficient way to produce beef. At the the start when first cleared most land will sustain an animal/ HA. However within 10 years it will need 5-10HA to support an animal. As land is cleared any better type land is changed over to tillage soya,maize or sugar cane production.

While deforestation had shrunk it has accelerated again. This year it is expected that 10k sq kilometres will be cleared.

It was part of the mecour deal that this stopped it never happened and it accelerated over the last 2-3 years. As the timber is no longer in demand they just start fires and burn huge area's and these fires never stop.

jaymla627

richie123 wrote: »

Tell that to a struggling farmer in Brazil ..
The reasons are irrelevant really it happened and it's very hard tell others then that they can't do it ...very hard to know wat the answer is
We were just lucky in this country that we had it reclaimed before the climate became a serious issue

Desertifiction is the issue, think back to the dust bowl that occured in America in the 1930's and multiply it by a thousand, that's the scenario that will occur in the next few decades in south America if they continue what they are at

richie123

jaymla627 wrote: »

Desertifiction is the issue, think back to the dust bowl that occured in America in the 1930's and multiply it by a thousand, that's the scenario that will occur in the next few decades in south America if they continue what they are at

True no easy answer as long as bolsonaro stays in control it's fcked.

K.G.

Well if you were gambling today deal or no deal

older by the day

Jes lads I taught it was brexit we are talking about. I have 500 kg beef animals for the Mart tomorrow. Are the prices changing in recent days

alps

K.G. wrote: »

Well if you were gambling today deal or no deal

If I were negotiating for the UK....better off leaving now..

The purpose of the vote was to regain sovereignty...they are failing miserably on that now.

Instead of trying to negotiate solutions on the way out, I think they would find it far more practical at this stage to leave, reclaim ALL sovereignty (foreign fishermen out) and from that clean slate, negotiate towards the free trade deal..

Every move would then be a gain for both sides....currently every move is a loss..

Tonynewholland

alps wrote: »

If I were negotiating for the UK....better off leaving now..

The purpose of the vote was to regain sovereignty...they are failing miserably on that now.

Instead of trying to negotiate solutions on the way out, I think they would find it far more practical at this stage to leave, reclaim ALL sovereignty (foreign fishermen out) and from that clean slate, negotiate towards the free trade deal..

Every move would then be a gain for both sides....currently every move is a loss..

What will they do with all the extra fish that they land At present most of their catch is sold in Spain and France.

Duke of Schomberg

alps wrote: »

If I were negotiating for the UK....better off leaving now.. The purpose of the vote was to regain sovereignty...

Too bloody right! The EU is dominated by feckless Catholic countries bleeding the industrious Protestant countries of the north dry. The sooner the UK is out of this Vatican-controlled scheme to bleed us to death and thereby control Europe the better.

grange mac

older by the day wrote: »

Jes lads I taught it was brexit we are talking about. I have 500 kg beef animals for the Mart tomorrow. Are the prices changing in recent days

I had 2yo store's sold outa shed. Prices r static at moment but up well in last 6 weeks. Just taking money off table in case Brexit fcuks whole thing up.
Mart prices are up to 150 ahead of factory. My guys were 620kg and got 1360 from shed.

older by the day

grange mac wrote: »

I had 2yo store's sold outa shed. Prices r static at moment but up well in last 6 weeks. Just taking money off table in case Brexit fcuks whole thing up.
Mart prices are up to 150 ahead of factory. My guys were 620kg and got 1360 from shed.

Good weight I know. But thats good money. I think it was a wise move to lessen your numbers. Can northern Irish buyers buy our cattle and sell it as british beef if there's a bad brexit. Can they buy calfs

grange mac

older by the day wrote: »

Good weight I know. But thats good money. I think it was a wise move to lessen your numbers. Can northern Irish buyers buy our cattle and sell it as british beef if there's a bad brexit. Can they buy calfs

Just lessened by 1/3 still have plenty but rest are alot younger.
Don't think any knows what's gonna happen with UK. All I know is they have trucks going from skibb mart & Gortalea up to North last month...
Can't get enough heavy cattle and skibb is probably most southerly mart in country so tells how stuck they are for anything heavy.

alps

Duke of Schomberg wrote: »

Too bloody right! The EU is dominated by feckless Catholic countries bleeding the industrious Protestant countries of the north dry. The sooner the UK is out of this Vatican-controlled scheme to bleed us to death and thereby control Europe the better.

Think the control is a bit on the Northern side of the Continent...

But in fairness they do look after the feckless..

alps

Tonynewholland wrote: »

What will they do with all the extra fish that they land At present most of their catch is sold in Spain and France.

Dont believe they have the fleet to catch enough to export..

Fish stocks could take a nice replenishing

Tonynewholland

alps wrote: »

Dont believe they have the fleet to catch enough to export..

Fish stocks could take a nice replenishing

they export something like 70% of their catch to the EU. Fishing is just a distraction they will happily sell it out for a no conditions deal to the EU single market

alps

Tonynewholland wrote: »

they export something like 70% of their catch to the EU. Fishing is just a distraction they will happily sell it out for a no conditions deal to the EU single market

Is this catch landed by UK or non UK boats?

Pile of fish landed here in Ireland by foreign boats and ""exported" or "repatriated"

Donegalforever

alps wrote: »

If I were negotiating for the UK....better off leaving now..

The purpose of the vote was to regain sovereignty...they are failing miserably on that now.

Instead of trying to negotiate solutions on the way out, I think they would find it far more practical at this stage to leave, reclaim ALL sovereignty (foreign fishermen out) and from that clean slate, negotiate towards the free trade deal..

Every move would then be a gain for both sides....currently every move is a loss..

?????

alps

Donegalforever wrote: »

?????

Its confusing for us alright.......maybe we only hear one side of this debate..

richie123

Donegalforever wrote: »

?????

Boris is bluffing with a bad poker hand every one can see.all the eu need to do is hang tough.
If he does crash out it's curtains for the Tory's as electorate will be hit hard especially with food pricerises.boris knows this he will fold.

bogman_bass

richie123 wrote: »

Boris is bluffing with a bad poker hand every one can see.all the eu need to do is hang tough.
If he does crash out it's curtains for the Tory's as electorate will be hit hard especially with food pricerises.boris knows this he will fold.

That could be the plan. Make a balls of it call a snap election and leave Labour to pick up the pieces

kk.man

richie123 wrote: »

Boris is bluffing with a bad poker hand every one can see.all the eu need to do is hang tough.
If he does crash out it's curtains for the Tory's as electorate will be hit hard especially with food pricerises.boris knows this he will fold.

Plus 1. They are not many votes from fishermen it's all a front for what appears territory reclaiming.

He needs his party and euro sceptics to see he fought hard and got the best deal.

If there is no deal Europe is going to have to open the purse to support all the sectors affected. I think Europe's purse is bigger than the UKs. In that scenario Scotland will leave the UK which without North Sea Oil the rest of the UK will be in a much weaker position. It be a major political gamble to make.

Trump politics seems to have run it's course and Johnson should have that in the back of his mind.