Tesla Model 3 - V3.0

AndyBoBandy

Yeah they don't recommend letting any Model 3 battery sit at below 20% for long periods of time....

a few winters ago I parked up at about 17%, and as the night got colder (my charge isn't scheduled to start until 3am), I noticed the battery fell to 6%...

As they get colder, the amount of charge left in it, some of it gets 'locked' away as it's so cold.....

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668471#Comment_119668471

Completely normal and appears on the S and X too. Once below 20% it just warns you that leaving it unplugged can reduce range as the battery goes cold.

As the battery heats up in theory you get the % back.

ADSLUSER

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668269#Comment_119668269

Do you have a thick case on your phone? if so, try removing and see if that works

Thumper Long

So went from 15% / 64Km to 100% / 439Km overnight, the M3 says it took on 52kWh and the Zappi has 53.29kWh so not sure what that does for the battery capacity argument

TitianGerm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669539#Comment_119669539

The difference might be losses between the charger and the car?

Boscoirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669073#Comment_119669073

It’s a Apple MagSafe case. So not thick. Will try without the case for a bit when I get the car back, the wife has seconded it. Might never get to drive it again.

Bovakinn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119668269#Comment_119668269

I've read online that the position of the wireless charger on the iPhone 12 lines up better when you pop the phone in upside down. Might be worth checking out.

slave1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669539#Comment_119669539

As TitianGerm says there will be losses from what the Zappi puts out and what the Tesla puts in, thankfully the Tesla is very efficient in terms of losses. There is also roundings, Tesla round everything so the 52kWh could be either 51.5kWh or 52.4kWh which would (mathematically) explain a bit

shanec1928

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669632#Comment_119669632

its the case, my tech21 case on my pro max has the same issue and its not a bulky case by any means

Thumper Long

Thanks guys I understand there is rounding and losses to be accounted for, I was more referring to the usable capacity, not sure what figure could be inferred from those figures?

Mike2006

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669726#Comment_119669726

If you account for rounding and say that 52kWhrs is spot on then your battery capacity is (52/85%)*100%= 61.2kWhr battery size

If you round up from 51.5kWhrs then is it (51.5/85%)*100%= 60.6kWhr battery size

Looks very healthy either way...

ELM327

You likely have 3-5% losses to account for though

innrain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669726#Comment_119669726

The rounding on energy charged gives you an error of +/- 1kWh and the rounding on %SoC gives you +/- 1% ~ 1kWh. Overall +/- 2kWh

Going back to the figures 52/kWh /.85 = 61kWh +/- 2kWh => 59-63 kWh. You need more resolution to reduce this uncertainty. The figure from Zappi can only confirm that is in range so can't really help. Does Tesla state somewhere in the contract the battery capacity? I can't remember seeing that value when I got mine.

mc2022B2TF

You will be guessing by trying to extrapolate actual usable capacity from charging sessions.

The 2 best ways to determine usable capacity are:

1) Use the Scan my tesla app, but this requires a piece of purchased hardware

2) Call Tesla and ask them - this is cheaper but you will be taking their word as being correct

The 3rd way would be to get in your car when it's fully charged and drive it continuously until you get down to 0%. Look at the trips screen and see what the used energy figure for that trip is - it will always be rounded down to the nearest whole number. This is how i knew my battery was nowhere near what i believed. I have never seen the total used energy go above 51kWh. Others have said that they are getting 55kWh+ but i have yet to see any screenshots to back this up.

On a side note i noticed that in the patch notes for the next software upgrade the energy app is going to show figures for energy used while driving, when idle and other activities non-driving related that use battery. Hopefully it will be decent and provide an insight.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669558#Comment_119669558

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119669647#Comment_119669647

I think the OP is more getting at the battery capacity conversation rather than the known loses on charging.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670048#Comment_119670048

Method 3 is not exactly a good way to do it as the screens trip computer doesn’t take into account any of the battery used for heating, lighting, 12v charging etc etc

It purely gives you the kWh used for propelling the car.

rocky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670552#Comment_119670552

I thought it would account for everything while driving the car? Yes, when the car is stopped it won't count the Sentry Mode, preheating etc, but while driving, everything is included in the consumption.

mc2022B2TF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670552#Comment_119670552

I agree but it's a lot better than trying to extrapolate out figures from the app or your charger as there are way too many variables there and unknowns. I'd say if you could look at the coding in the Tesla app you'd be surprised where it gets its figures from, that's all i can say on that.

Drive from 100% to 0% during the day with no heating or lights on and no phones plugged in or whatever and your energy consumption will be very close to the actual energy used. I've seen videos online and this is certainly the case - also remember that the M3 has a heat pump which drastically reduces the energy the battery used for heating the cabin.

If you want an example of this, take a look at this video below - i have timestamped the link to the exact part - ok he didnt drive to 0% but he has extrapolated out the real world test and uses the trip data as his source. I did the same test yet i drove to zero and could only manage 51kWh - this also ties in with what Tesla have told me is usable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnD_UZ5Jurs&t=687s

Yet in the above video in a car delivered approx 10 months earlier than mine the usable battery is closer to 57kWh. So quite obviously a way smaller buffer in the end of 2021 model.

Tesla have decreased the usable battery size by approx 5kWh since then (or at least in my particular car) but they have not decreased the WLTP advertised range. Maybe they expect us to all drive to about -10% to achieve this.

Zurbaran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670675#Comment_119670675

I asked before and I’m not trying to be smart or anything but what is the app telling you going into the car at a low state of charge to 100%? There are people who are measuring it outside the app and it is very close to what the app says. Of course there are losses in it but if yours is different to what mine has shown and the above example which looks the same at a slightly different state of charge. Then is there is a difference between yours and others cars?

what the car output is important of course but if it’s the same as everyone else why would you be worried? No car does it’s estimated range unless driving incredibly easy.

mc2022B2TF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119674207#Comment_119674207

Last night it said it took 57kWh from 5% to 100 which just isn't right. I genuinely think the app just works off 100% = 60kWh and works back from there which is totally misleading.

Let's take today for example. I charged to 100% and drove down and back from Dublin with no a/c and no lights. 30 mins stop off to meet a man about a dog and then straight home.

At 50% remaining I had used 25kWh energy but it was at 25kWh for a few minutes so probably closer to 26. So extrapolated out that's almost 52kWh if I ran it down to zero. Totally consistent with what tesla have told me and from my own previous tests.

I'm still waiting for others to post figures on a similar test but no one has yet.

If someone can post some energy usage on a similar test showing more that 52kWh energy usage then I'll definitely be getting back on to tesla. I probably will anyway.

My average energy usage is 150 wh/km which equates to 6.67km per kWh

That means for me the car is a 345km range without having to drive past zero percent. When it should actually be 380km if the battery had a usable capacity of 57kWh like late 2021 lfp have.

Like the battery capacity is 60.5kWh and the usable only 52kWh so I'm lugging around extra weight that can't be used. The buffer is pretty crazy.

I'd appreciate if others could actually post some stats from their trips but no one seems to be coming forward yet but are happy to question my calculations without actually providing their own evidence.

Ant takers?

mc2022B2TF

So just clarify the challenge:

Charge to 100%

Drive until battery has 50% remaining

No a/c or lights if possible

Post a screenshot of your "since last charge" stats from the "trips" menu of the car

Can you get more that 26kWh energy used?

Gumbo

As above.

Must be a 2022 LFP car yeah?

No point those of us with P’s or LR’s doing it.

mc2022B2TF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119674802#Comment_119674802

Yes a 2022 RWD LFP delivered from September 2022 onwards.

No point in it being pre-Sept 2022 delivery either as they have already shown to have the smaller buffer. Something has changed buffer-wise in my car from those delivered earlier this year. Trying to see if it is widespread - if so, does it affect all Sept 2022 deliveries etc.

I've seen people claim on this thread that they have gotten 55kWh+ from a Sept 2022 RWD but yet to see any evidence of it.

As i said earlier this isn't a pi$$ing contest - its a genuine query to see if there are differences between Sept 2022 deliveries.

And to be honest it's a fairly easy test that most people that own a RWD delivered in Sept could do quite quickly.

Thanks.

Mike2006

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119674869#Comment_119674869

I will charge to 100% tonight and I will have 200kms done by Friday morning and I will let you know how I get on... I took delivery on 17th Sept and mine is also a RWD LFP.

Mike

mc2022B2TF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119674928#Comment_119674928

Excellent - thank you!

For ease of calculations it is best to take a picture of the TRIPS menu when as soon as the battery is at 50%.

Good luck!

gkp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119674937#Comment_119674937

70% stats here if that helps. September RWD. By my calculations this would give 51.4kWh and 343km for 100%.

mc2022B2TF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675532#Comment_119675532

Thanks - figures look good! Ties in with what i'm seeing in mine - allow for a bit of rounding and we will call it 52kWh. Bang on with what Tesla have told me and what i'm seeing in my own car.

Bear in mind that 148 wh/km was an efficient drive compared to your overall average efficiency of 160 wh/km

My efficiency has settled around 154 wh/km but i do a good bit of motorway driving and i've put nearly 3000km on her already.

gallagheri

Would it make any difference, in a practical sense, if the battery is actually 60kwh but the buffer is, say, 8kwh? I mean, the battery capacity is still there, and you barely won't get to 55kwh (if you had a buffer of 5kwh instead of 8kwh) very often? It would be too close to 0%, and nobody does that really.

That is of course, considering the battery is 60kwh in total, regardless of the distribution between usable and "buffer".

This seems to be more of a battery life management strategy than something else from Tesla?

ADSLUSER

Seeing similar results here with Sept 2022 RWD. 20kWh used = 62% remaining. That would equate to approx. 52.6kWh. With such a large buffer in use, it's worth getting back to Tesla to understand why this changed compared with pre-Sept LFP models. I think it's a very reasonable question to ask.

mc2022B2TF

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119675797#Comment_119675797

But sure that's like saying why don't we just have a 40kWh battery and that doesn't make any difference that a 50kWh. Of course it matters - ok the margins may be small enough but it all counts.

I understand that it may be a battery management issue but if you need to pack in a 60.5kWh battery to only have 52kWh usable, that seems crazy.

There is already a 2.5~3kWh "hard buffer" on the LFP's so adding another 6 seems excessive.

However, more to the point is the advertising - Tesla increased the WLTP advertised range 409km to 448km to 491km over the past 3 years. I want to know what the 491km was based off as it coincided with the usable battery for late 2021/early 2022 models being increased to 57kWh (4.5kWh buffer). That's the range that i was advertised and bought. However that range has been reduced by reducing the usable battery size to 52kWh. On the face of it the product has been mis-sold with an incorrect WLTP range.