Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

xhomelezz

yawhat? wrote: »

Lots of “I believe.........”. They seem to know fcuk all, but believe an awful lot.

They just heading this way..

Kiwi in IE

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It pains me to say it, but John Waters could be our only hope

I can’t come to terms with being on the same side as him. It has never happened before. I’m a usually very much on the liberal left side of the political spectrum, but presently wanting the army to barricade people in their houses, and the Gardaí enter peoples private homes to ensure there are no more than six people present is considered the left wing position on this matter, and suddenly I am more in agreement with John Waters on the issue. I’m quite confused. Usually every fibre of my being is opposed to everything that comes out of Waters mouth.

Kiwi in IE

uli84 wrote: »

GP to close practice after threat of suspension over anti-mask views,
A bit like Orwell’s 1984, pretty scary actually


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/gp-to-close-practice-after-threat-of-suspension-over-anti-mask-views-1.4375726?mode=amp

That is terrifying!

Rrrrrr2

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

That is terrifying!

Only one Covid opinion allowed

FintanMcluskey

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I can’t come to terms with being on the same side as him. It has never happened before. I’m a usually very much on the liberal left side of the political spectrum, but presently wanting the army to barricade people in their houses, and the Gardaí enter peoples private homes to ensure there are no more than six people present is considered the left wing position on this matter, and suddenly I am more in agreement with John Waters on the issue. I’m quite confused. Usually every fibre of my being is opposed to everything that comes out of Waters mouth.

I dont know what happened to him.

He was once an excellent journalist a long time ago.

He is at the very least articulate, and would do much better to distance himself from Gemma O'D at all costs.

Does anyone know what the mechanic's of the ruling of his case was? Is he appealing or is that possible?

Jackman25

bucketybuck wrote: »

In 2013 staffers for Governor Chris Christie closed Toll lanes in Fort Lee New Jersey with the aim of intentionally creating gridlock to reflect badly on a political opponent, this resulted in federal prosecution for the staffers and is credited with costing Christie his 2016 presidential campaign.

In 2020 the Irish government has instructed its police force to intentionally block major routes in and out of its capitol city and to intentionally create gridlock that affects tens of thousands of honest hard working people.

Not a ****ing word said about it.

It is an utter disgrace what is happening in this country and unfortunately it remains quite clear that the media are fully complicit.

Its complete nonsense. At this stage everyone knows they will be out for the first few days and then not to be seen after that.
So those that need to leave the county unnecessarily will just bide their time and all they are doing is annoying people with genuine reasons.

Real Donald Trump

bucketybuck wrote: »

In 2013 staffers for Governor Chris Christie closed Toll lanes in Fort Lee New Jersey with the aim of intentionally creating gridlock to reflect badly on a political opponent, this resulted in federal prosecution for the staffers and is credited with costing Christie his 2016 presidential campaign.

In 2020 the Irish government has instructed its police force to intentionally block major routes in and out of its capitol city and to intentionally create gridlock that affects tens of thousands of honest hard working people.

Not a ****ing word said about it.

It is an utter disgrace what is happening in this country and unfortunately it remains quite clear that the media are fully complicit.

The media are the true enemy of the people.

Kiwi in IE

douglashyde wrote: »

However I do believe in mask wearing / social distancing and general close proximity crowd control.

I also feel this way and I am happy to wear a mask, sanitise, practice social distancing from those outside my social circle etc. I don’t want to put others at risk while they are using essential services that I am using, supermarket, service station etc. Those who are vulnerable to covid have to use these services too.

I am not happy however for the government to decide that I cannot use businesses such as personal grooming or a pub, where both myself and the hairdresser/publican have assessed our own level of risk, including those we live with/have close contact with, decided it is low and that we are prepared to take it.

I do not agree with huge sectors of the economy being closed and those who work/own businesses within those sectors being expected to just close and suck up the consequences and live on social welfare until the money runs out. Aside from the personal consequences to these workers/business owners, it is just bizarre that so many seem to be entirely blind to the fact that the loss of revenue from these sectors will have consequences on the health system and social services that will be far worse than covid.

The money that is currently being spent paying an absurd amount of people within these sectors, who want to be working and running their businesses, the various covid support payments, should instead be redirected to ensure that those who are vulnerable are fully and comprehensively supported to isolate to whatever extent they choose. It would come at a fraction of the cost of paying huge sectors of the economy social welfare they don’t want to be on indefinitely.

i don't believe people should laugh at protestors for having an alternate view. Protestors won the vote for women, protestors won the right for gay people to be treated equally and not imprisoned , for black lives matter and civil rights.
all of the above were seen as mad, during their time and yes I get that none of them were out during a pandemic but consider the effects of not being allowed to hold your partners hand if you're same sex or not being allowed to vote and have a voice in a so called democracy or even consider your freedom to walk round under the tri colour!! so what if they don't have slick suits, D4 pedigree and prime time debating skills...some call them tin foil idiots and yet they have one thing in common, they're willing to catch a "deadly" virus for their freedom of choice. if you think their stupid, don' go to town on the day. it's easy to dismiss them as idiots but can any one person here stand beside any doctor that has been forced to stand down over the views and say, he/she is an idiot???? a 40+ year old head of the midlands hospital for example?? is a tin foil hat head?? a jim corr O'phile???

I don't know which side is right, Govt or protestors but I know when the maths don't add up and I know when I;m not been told the full story..My grandad always said, with good shoes and nice teeth, you can sell anything...I believe him.

Dublin was supposed to be on level 3 for 3 weeks, now we have an additional 3 with maybe level 5 after that, going into the busiest time of the calendar year..this would put Dublin in lockdown for maybe 2-3 months.

The threat of level 5 was only mentioned to make a country wide level 3 palatable for everyone, sigh of relief everyone, we could have had it worse!!

**** sake!

Kiwi in IE

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

I also feel this way and I am happy to wear a mask, sanitise, practice social distancing from those outside my social circle etc. I don’t want to put others at risk while they are using essential services that I am using, supermarket, service station etc. Those who are vulnerable to covid have to use these services too.

I am not happy however for the government to decide that I cannot use businesses such as personal grooming or a pub, where both myself and the hairdresser/publican have assessed our own level of risk, including those we live with/have close contact with, decided it is low and that we are prepared to take it.

I do not agree with huge sectors of the economy being closed and those who work/own businesses within those sectors being expected to just close and suck up the consequences and live on social welfare until the money runs out. Aside from the personal consequences to these workers/business owners, it is just bizarre that so many seem to be entirely blind to the fact that the loss of revenue from these sectors will have consequences on the health system and social services that will be far worse than covid.

The money that is currently being spent paying an absurd amount of people within these sectors, who want to be working and running their businesses, the various covid support payments, should instead be redirected to ensure that those who are vulnerable are fully and comprehensively supported to isolate to whatever extent they choose. It would come at a fraction of the cost of paying huge sectors of the economy social welfare they don’t want to be on indefinitely.

One of the best posts I've read in recent times, deconstructing the overzealous Government approach. Publicans and small business owners are being hammered into the ground despite responsibly assessing the risk and keeping footfall to a minimum. Meanwhile schools remain open while Covid-19 outbreaks occur with increased regularity in those crowded environments. The hypocrisy is all too evident.

polesheep

walus wrote: »

I’m afraid the source of this article might not stand up to the standards and scrutiny of some on this forum. It is not RTÉ after all. .

On a more serious note the Swedes had balls to slow down their thinking and look critically at the evidence, and treat this problem with a long term strategy as everyone should. This is quite impressive as they went against the human nature to react first and think later. The Swedes can plan Christmas now or leave it until later. And we are back at the crystal ball to see what Fat Tony and his gang will come up next.

It is interesting to see how much one man can swing an opinion of 40 or so members of nphet. It is a little bit like Bill Gates getting into a pub. With him inside an average net worth per person is million times greater than without him. Seems to me that Fat Tony has a similar effect in nphet. He calls the shots. And if he is wrong, sweet Jesus...

The WHO, in the form of Mike Ryan, actually said act fast without stopping to think. When the dust has settled that should be remembered.

Phoebas

polesheep wrote: »

The WHO, in the form of Mike Ryan, actually said act fast without stopping to think. When the dust has settled that should be remembered.

Aren't you already remembering it incorrectly?

polesheep

Phoebas wrote: »

Aren't you already remembering it incorrectly?

"Be fast, have no regrets. The virus will be first to get you if you don't move quickly."

I somehow think that there will be lots of regrets when this is over, not least having moved too quickly without thinking it through. The man applied his experience of Ebola to Covid, two very different diseases.

But smart one liner responses are cool, aren't they?

Phoebas

polesheep wrote: »

"Be fast, have no regrets. The virus will be first to get you if you don't move quickly."

I somehow think that there will be lots of regrets when this is over, not least having moved too quickly without thinking it through. The man applied his experience of Ebola to Covid, two very different diseases.

But smart one liner responses are cool, aren't they?

So he didn't say what you attributed to him.
Good to get that cleared up.

polesheep wrote: »

The WHO, in the form of Mike Ryan, actually said act fast without stopping to think. When the dust has settled that should be remembered.

Dionaibh

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I dont know what happened to him.

He was once an excellent journalist a long time ago.

He is at the very least articulate, and would do much better to distance himself from Gemma O'D at all costs.

Does anyone know what the mechanic's of the ruling of his case was? Is he appealing or is that possible?

He still is an excellent writer. He writes for First Things. He wrote a remarkable article about Franz Fanon a couple of years ago. It's well worth reading. One doesn't have to agree with, or even like, a person to appreciate talent.

topper75

Much of the 'destruction' of Covid is really born of the vain efforts to stop it.
Only 1m (yeah I don't write that phrase too often) have died globally with breathing issues and the vast majority of those had pretty much lived their lives.

Contrast that with a real problem like the locusts in E. Africa. They are no longer fashionable in the news but they threaten food security of up to 20 million people, many of them young.

Remember the war in Yemen? Something like Irish covid deaths by a factor of 100. Relegated to a footnote thanks to our new monofocus.

2021 will not dawn brightly for the world.

Idbatterim

This truly is the biggest nanny state on the planet. Every bloody radio station trying to be cool, covid this, covid that, just play the tunes you insufferable morons, I wouldnt trust them to tell me the time of day, pathetic !

fin12

Idbatterim wrote: »

This truly is the boggest nanny state on the planet. Every bloody radio station trying to be cool, covid this, covid that, just play the tunes you insufferable morons, I wouldnt trust them to tell me the time of day, pathetic !

Yes it’s so f*cking obvious now, it’s crazy why we are all not out on the street.

patnor1011

fin12 wrote: »

Yes it’s so f*cking obvious now, it’s crazy why we are all not out on the street.

It is coming.
It is easy for the government to bully business owners. They have a lot of ways to shut them if they decide to go to level 5 or even to invent some level 6.
However, people will not obey restrictions and there is no way to make them comply. A lot of business will move "underground" where the state will miss revenue. It was happening even during the first lockdown. House parties, various professionals doing house rounds like hairdressers... Some people did not observe the first lockdown and that number now increased exponentially.

facehugger99

fin12 wrote: »

Yes it’s so f*cking obvious now, it’s crazy why we are all not out on the street.

People are being sheltered from the reality by borrowed money.

We are pumping billions into the economy every month. Most people don't think past their next pay cheque. They can't see that this is all going to need to be paid back one day through higher taxation and cuts to services.

The government have cynically decided to adopt this approach. We should have had an emergency budget in June. Would the clappy-seals be as happy with the current approach if there had been a new 'Covid tax' introduced? - would they fcuk.

The current 'strategy' is to borrow money and kick the can down the road in the hope a vaccine is invented - it is disingenuous and incredibly risky. Most people are too dumb to see it though unfortunately .

lawred2

facehugger99 wrote: »

People are being sheltered from the reality by borrowed money.

We are pumping billions into the economy every month. Most people don't think past their next pay cheque. They can't see that this is all going to need to be paid back one day through higher taxation and cuts to services.

The government have cynically decided to adopt this approach. We should have had an emergency budget in June. Would the clappy-seals be as happy with the current approach if there had been a new 'Covid tax' introduced? - would they fcuk.

The current 'strategy' is to borrow money and kick the can down the road in the hope a vaccine is invented - it is disingenuous and incredibly risky. Most people are too dumb to see it though unfortunately .

The money is at zero cost and if the treasury had any sense they would be doing what the likes of Austria is doing and offering 100 year bonds.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'sheltering'? Would you prefer the government just let those who lost their jobs fend for themselves?

CruelSummer

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/09/23/covid-19-vaccine-protocols-reveal-that-trials-are-designed-to-succeed/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

This Forbes article goes into how the vaccine trials are designed to succeed, rather than be a success at preventing severe cases of Covid.
It’s quite concerning - the interim reports we would hear in the media were based on very small numbers. Most seem to be designing vaccines to prevent common cold symptoms. It looks like these vaccines will not be the ‘silver bullet’ needed to get out of this pandemic. Our Government should not put all of its eggs in this basket with harsh lockdowns, destroying our economy, lives and health based on this flawed strategy.

facehugger99

lawred2 wrote: »

The money is at zero cost and if the treasury had any sense they would be doing what the likes of Austria is doing and offering 100 year bonds.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'sheltering'? Would you prefer the government just let those who lost their jobs fend for themselves?

:rolleyes:

100 year bonds - the magic-money trees of 2020.

What a dumb statement - frightening people with your level of understanding are afforded a vote.

lawred2

facehugger99 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

100 year bonds - the magic-money trees of 2020.

What a dumb statement - frightening people with your level of understanding are afforded a vote.

What's magic exactly about long term bonds?

Penfailed

facehugger99 wrote: »

People are being sheltered from the reality by borrowed money.

We are pumping billions into the economy every month. Most people don't think past their next pay cheque. They can't see that this is all going to need to be paid back one day through higher taxation and cuts to services.

The government have cynically decided to adopt this approach. We should have had an emergency budget in June. Would the clappy-seals be as happy with the current approach if there had been a new 'Covid tax' introduced? - would they fcuk.

The current 'strategy' is to borrow money and kick the can down the road in the hope a vaccine is invented - it is disingenuous and incredibly risky. Most people are too dumb to see it though unfortunately .

You really think that the majority of the people don't realise that there's financial pain coming down the line? I find that hard to believe.

weldoninhio

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Only one Covid opinion allowed

Four ladies out of work too with the closure, including one who’s just had a baby. All in this together my hole.

facehugger99

lawred2 wrote: »

What's magic exactly about long term bonds?

Nothing - they are a frightening concept and anyone with a shred of intelligence should be deeply concerned they are even being discussed.

Maybe you're fine with saddling our children and grandchildren with €10's or even €100's of billions of euros of debt but let's hope more people don't have as selfish an outlook.


Nobody invests in a 100-year bond other than those deeply pessimistic about our future growth. The fact they are even being considered is extremely worrying.

Still never mind, lads like yourself would be happy to borrow and spend until the whole economy crashes and burns around us - **** the sustainability of it.

paw patrol

just a friendly reminder to you all to wear your masks.
Not cos covid is a deadly killer but because if you don't do as NPHET say , we don't get nice things (and Christmas).



.

Dionaibh

paw patrol wrote: »

just a friendly reminder to you all to wear your masks.
Not cos covid is a deadly killer but because if you don't do as NPHET say , we don't get nice things (and Christmas).



.

Isn't there a long list of exemptions there?