buying cabin cruiser from uk/france advice and price comparisons

sarahstrikes

Hi all, Im hoping you can help me.
I'm hoping to purchase our first cabin criuser 6 to 8 berth for the 2021 season on Irelands inland waterways. There doesn't seem to be alot of choice in Ireland and the uk and mainland europe prices seem better compared to ireland.

1)Firstly am i looking in the right place for Ireland (donedeal & apollo duck)?

2) Does anyone have any idea of transportation costs from mainland europe/uk for a cabin cruiser of this size range (i'm guessing 30 ft plus)

3) Does anyone have any advice for someone buying a cruiser with 6/8 berths (size, price range expected, engine type, history, age, hull material etc)

4)What are the best buying sites for what I am looking for in france/netherlands/uk etc.

Even though this is my first boat purchase I have grown up on the lake and have knowledge of water safety, navigation, berthing rules/costs, maintenance etc. I come from a sailing family and we ourselves have small sailing vessels but this is a purchase for my family of six to enjoy leisure time on the inland waterways. (my husband has no interest in sailing hence the preference for a cruiser)

Any and all advice welcome.

AndyBoBandy

sarahstrikes wrote: »

1)Firstly am i looking in the right place for Ireland (donedeal & apollo duck)?

Try also Yacht Market, and filter to what you want... and also search in various countries.

Tabnabs

Stay away from donedeal, cowboys selling ****ters, there's a reason it's called a "donedeal special"...

Cost of transport is into the thousands and you will likely be buying blind as the chances of visiting the boat in the UK or continent will be slim. Engaging the services of a surveyor will be more important than ever and a full mechanical report will be absolutely required.

The Irish market is slim pickings, but put the word out on inland boating FB groups and you'd be surprised what is suddenly for sale.

When buying an old motorboat, it's the engine(s) you're paying for and the rest is just the icing. Knackered engines will cost more than the boat is worth and drain your finances quickly.

Tow

12 years ago (from memory) ~8K to ship a 35 foot yacht from Germany to Dublin on a low-loader.
There is a post you have probably already seen on the IWAI site regarding shipping a narrow boat from the UK https://www.iwai.ie/bringing-you-boat-to-ireland/

If you want to go on the canals, cabin cruisers (gin palace style) can draw too much water, you will also need a weed hatch etc. On the other side of the coin, I am not sure how good (safe) a British narrow boat is on the lakes.

sarahstrikes

Tabnabs wrote: »

Stay away from donedeal, cowboys selling ****ters, there's a reason it's called a "donedeal special"...

Cost of transport is into the thousands and you will likely be buying blind as the chances of visiting the boat in the UK or continent will be slim. Engaging the services of a surveyor will be more important than ever and a full mechanical report will be absolutely required.

The Irish market is slim pickings, but put the word out on inland boating FB groups and you'd be surprised what is suddenly for sale.

When buying an old motorboat, it's the engine(s) you're paying for and the rest is just the icing. Knackered engines will cost more than the boat is worth and drain your finances quickly.

What would you consider a good engine age/type that will give little trouble? I know nothing is guaranteed when buying a boat but as I'm totally new to this any info is helpful to help me make a decision. I've seen 30/40 year old Dutch steel type boats for sale which makes me wary of the engine condition but they are alot cheaper than the newer ones so maybe there is a reason.

sarahstrikes

Tow wrote: »

12 years ago (from memory) ~8K to ship a 35 foot yacht from Germany to Dublin on a low-loader.
There is a post you have probably already seen on the IWAI site regarding shipping a narrow boat from the UK https://www.iwai.ie/bringing-you-boat-to-ireland/

If you want to go on the canals, cabin cruisers (gin palace style) can draw too much water, you will also need a weed hatch etc. On the other side of the coin, I am not sure how good (safe) a British narrow boat is on the lakes.

I actually love the layouts of the narrow boats and would love if these were an option but it will mainly be the lakes we are on so it wouldnt be suitable. Any of the local barges I've seen are fab but as we're mainly going to be moving about at the weekends and the odd holiday week the speed would be a factor with these.

fergal.b

Lots of Marina's have a for sale section and you may also get a bit of a warranty and history if you buy from them, the hire boat companies also sell off their boats and would be worth a look although with staycation they now seem to be holding on to them.





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mossym

we've just bought a boat here, and i know a few folk working around the marinas, according to them demand is very high, nothing is sitting long and boats that wouldn't sell the last couple of seasons moved no issue this year. much like the huge demand for the hire boats it seems staycation is driving up boat purchases majorly as well. hence why you are not find a lot i imagine

Ferris

1) You probably are looking in the right places - you can do a europe wide search on Apolloduck. Add Gumtree.com and specify Northern Ireland also.

2) 6k from the UK

3) 6/8 berth cruiser is 40ft+ and even then some - unusual to need to accommodate that many people - usually results in people sleeping on couches.
Narrowboats will not accomodate that many people and are pointless in Ireland as all our inland waterways are relatively wide, wider barges might accommodate more but maintenance on barges is ridiculous - labour of love required.
Some people like steel boats - i am not one of them unless relatively new, plenty of rot boxes around and I would only buy Dutch steel - not Irish.
Fiberglass is preferable but also watch for Osmosis. Hull and engines need to be sound, in fact stay away from a fixer upper and buy the best condition boat you can afford. Get both a mechanical and hull survey if spending 20k+ (which you will be £££).
Single engines preferrable for inland waterways as prop is more protected from hitting things
Aft cabin designs will be better for more accomodation, see 'Broom' boats for examples, most dutch steel are similar.

We find that a 38ft aft cabin single engine broom is about the biggest boat that will go 'everywhere' on Shannon navigation. Probably wouldn't fit on Grand / Royal canal but good for Shannon Erne, Acres Lake / Lough Allen, Boyle, Camlin river (my favourite!).

I think youre spending 30-40k for a '70's boat needing considerable maintenance and upwards from there for nicer / newer.

Tow

Rugby Boats in the UK have appear to some suitable boats from time to time.

Nice Dutch barge for ~£85k, unfortunately already sold.

https://youtu.be/V2V8fSBiF-s

sarahstrikes

Ferris wrote: »

1) You probably are looking in the right places - you can do a europe wide search on Apolloduck. Add Gumtree.com and specify Northern Ireland also.

2) 6k from the UK

3) 6/8 berth cruiser is 40ft+ and even then some - unusual to need to accommodate that many people - usually results in people sleeping on couches.
Narrowboats will not accomodate that many people and are pointless in Ireland as all our inland waterways are relatively wide, wider barges might accommodate more but maintenance on barges is ridiculous - labour of love required.
Some people like steel boats - i am not one of them unless relatively new, plenty of rot boxes around and I would only buy Dutch steel - not Irish.
Fiberglass is preferable but also watch for Osmosis. Hull and engines need to be sound, in fact stay away from a fixer upper and buy the best condition boat you can afford. Get both a mechanical and hull survey if spending 20k+ (which you will be £££).
Single engines preferrable for inland waterways as prop is more protected from hitting things
Aft cabin designs will be better for more accomodation, see 'Broom' boats for examples, most dutch steel are similar.

We find that a 38ft aft cabin single engine broom is about the biggest boat that will go 'everywhere' on Shannon navigation. Probably wouldn't fit on Grand / Royal canal but good for Shannon Erne, Acres Lake / Lough Allen, Boyle, Camlin river (my favourite!).

I think youre spending 30-40k for a '70's boat needing considerable maintenance and upwards from there for nicer / newer.

Thank you so much for this comprehensive and informative reply. It will be a great help to me in figuring out what we want. Great to know the max size I can use on the whole shannon as would hate to be restricted. The only reason I wanted 8 berth is because that normally means 6 + couch conversion and if we can have separate cabins to the living area it would be better as we will be using it like a holiday home during the summer but it might tip us over what we could spend. 30/40k is alot of money for a boat that will need alot of maintenance so we may have to adjust our budget/expectations accordingly. Thank you so much again for your reply.

antietam1

Brought in a Bayliner 2855 from Florida, the truck driver who did the final leg of the boats journey asked how I felt about the boat.
I said really pleased, he said I was very lucky getting the right boat as most people were not to pleased with boats from the Florida guy.

Ferris

sarahstrikes wrote: »

Thank you so much for this comprehensive and informative reply. It will be a great help to me in figuring out what we want. Great to know the max size I can use on the whole shannon as would hate to be restricted. The only reason I wanted 8 berth is because that normally means 6 + couch conversion and if we can have separate cabins to the living area it would be better as we will be using it like a holiday home during the summer but it might tip us over what we could spend. 30/40k is alot of money for a boat that will need alot of maintenance so we may have to adjust our budget/expectations accordingly. Thank you so much again for your reply.

God, I hope I haven’t put you off, apologies.

As an option this is a very nice boat, it’s berthed near us and always seemed well kept. Has 6 permanent berths, from a good builder, relatively low maintenance and good engine but it is expensive. It’s been for sale for a while however.

https://www.apolloduck.eu/boat/haines-37/648727

Might help you decide what you like.

Alkers

Ferris wrote: »

God, I hope I haven’t put you off, apologies.

As an option this is a very nice boat, it’s berthed near us and always seemed well kept. Has 6 permanent berths, from a good builder, relatively low maintenance and good engine but it is expensive. It’s been for sale for a while however.

https://www.apolloduck.eu/boat/haines-37/648727

Might help you decide what you like.

Maybe one for a seperate thread but would someone have a ballpark annualised running cost for a boat like this? I'm thinking berthage, insurance, maintenance & upkeep, repairs, iwai registration etc. I'm thinking a tenner an hour would cover diesel easily and overnighting away from home marina generally free. Am I missing anything?

Ferris

Berthing 1500 incl lifts for winter storage
Insurance 600
Maint. Do our own so cheap, oil, filters and antifreeze.
Repairs, don’t ask, currently astronomical.
Diesel 1-2gal p/h single engine 80hp
Overnight is free on public moorings
Another cost people forget is transport to and from boat

antietam1

1500 for berth and lifts etc is very good, I was paying roughly that for a 30 foot near Portumna when I finished up in 2009 and moved to a cheaper one.
All lift outs and Winter storage extra.

Ferris

Its in Albert Lough Marina, we're very happy there.

antietam1

Ferris wrote: »

Its in Albert Lough Marina, we're very happy there.

I gathered that from the boat you pointed out.
Should I spread the word or keep it quiet?
Can I ask is their a public slipway nearby.

Ferris

Spread away, the place is massive. Don’t know if there is a public slipway but there is one in the boatyard.

antietam1

Ferris wrote: »

Spread away, the place is massive. Don’t know if there is a public slipway but there is one in the boatyard.

Thanks for that, if we can ever get back to normal will launch at Dromod and have a look.

Alkers

Ferris wrote: »

Berthing 1500 incl lifts for winter storage
Insurance 600
Maint. Do our own so cheap, oil, filters and antifreeze.
Repairs, don’t ask, currently astronomical.
Diesel 1-2gal p/h single engine 80hp
Overnight is free on public moorings
Another cost people forget is transport to and from boat

That's much more reasonable than I had thought.
Why so much on repairs as of late? This wouldn't be typical I would assume? People throw around 10% of the cost of the boat each year on maintenance and repairs?

Ferris

We're refitting the interior, it was a hire boat for 30yrs so aspects of it are very tired. This is a anomoly really, most people wouldn't bother but we like the boat.

The thing is with boats is that you might not have a big hitter for years, just covering the basic maintenance, and then something big hits like engine trouble or hull repairs. Not sure if a blanket 10% applies as older cheaper boats usually need more work. Id say you need to be putting away a decent sum every year to cover eventualities.

Another thing to do is when bugeting repairs, double it!

Alkers

Ferris wrote: »

We're refitting the interior, it was a hire boat for 30yrs so aspects of it are very tired. This is a anomoly really, most people wouldn't bother but we like the boat.

Sounds like you should start a thread!! :pac:

Ferris

Probably. Its frustrating as we cant get down to the boat now with lockdown.

neris

If buying from UK youd wana get move on Brexit is looming and still issues around VAT paid on boats been brought in and out of EU countries & UK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWQzWLuwUug

mossym

600 for insurance? Just insured a 37ft , staying in the water for the winter, with a demudifier running(which adds)and it was about half that. That seems very high

sarahstrikes

Just coming back to this thread again as there seems to be great knowledge here. I have looked at a 45 foot cruiser and the layout is perfect but my biggest worry is the size. I would definitely have to get the fixed fibreglass flybridge arch hinged to have any chance of navigating the inland waterways (could anyone give me an rough estimate cost for this).
Aside from the height is there anything else I need to be on the look out for which would restrict navigation on ireland inland waterways?

fergal.b

You should look for something with a draft up to 4 foot 4 1/2 max anything over that could be asking for trouble, also having the propeller on a shaft protected by a keel is better than an outdrive where the propeller is just hanging on an expensive gearbox below the boat :eek: Hard to put a price on the arch as it would depend on what supports need to be put in (the weight of the arch) and what the access is like to put them in.







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Ferris

What make / model is the boat?

Re. Radar arch. They are usually very heavy structures so any hinge or mechanism needs to be well engineered. I’ve heard of it being done but at great expense. Are there radio aerials/ radar/ gps etc on the arch? Cables etc would need to be considered. This would not be easy unless you are willing to just cut it off and mosey on.

deegs

I'm in the same boat (sorry for terrible pun).
Looking to buy a little 5-6m fishing cruiser. France looks like a fantastic deal on apolloduck but absolutely no idea how to get it home. Are there any known brokers who provide a service to inspect and bring home boats?

antietam1

deegs wrote: »

I'm in the same boat (sorry for terrible pun).
Looking to buy a little 5-6m fishing cruiser. France looks like a fantastic deal on apolloduck but absolutely no idea how to get it home. Are there any known brokers who provide a service to inspect and bring home boats?

When we brought boats in from Florida they used to ship them to Southampton and a broker would deliver them to Ireland, oddly enough via Larne/Stranaer.
If you searched brokers in Southampton they might handle the whole thing.

Jeeves1847

Hi, I’m looking at some boats in the U.K. but would be very grateful for some some help on the post Brexit transition and VAT situation. If you import a second hand boat from the U.K. will I need to pay VAT when I bring it into Ireland or is it considered EU VAT paid under the Brexit Free Trade Agreement.

It’s a second hand inland cruiser valued around €40k.

Many thanks in advance for the help.

Tow

The current understand is you will pay Irish VAT on second hand goods.

Mick Tator

Tow wrote: »

The current understand is you will pay Irish VAT on second hand goods.

My understanding is that the boat would be sold VAT free and you would then pay VAT on entry into Ireland. You also would be liable for Excise /Duty. However, on a second-hand boat it is possible that you could avoid VAT if it is bought in Northern Ireland.

For a purchase that size I would ask Revenue.

Jeeves1847

Mick Tator wrote: »

My understanding is that the boat would be sold VAT free and you would then pay VAT on entry into Ireland. You also would be liable for Excise /Duty. However, on a second-hand boat it is possible that you could avoid VAT if it is bought in Northern Ireland.

For a purchase that size I would ask Revenue.

Thanks for the help and insight. I’ll contact revenue and see what the situation is. Many thanks.

connel42

I am looking at buying a small boat in the UK which I will collect.
It is UK VAT paid so would I just need to pay any difference between Irish and UK VAT?
The boat is £14000
I have brought plenty of boats from the UK in the past and no issues but that was before Brexit.

Tow

It is not the different between VAT rates. If the boat is new, they can sell it to you without VAT. You will pay Irish VAT (and Duty) on Import to Ireland. If the boat is second hand (private sale), you will pay Irish VAT and Duty on Import into Ireland. The reality is people will be looking further afield to Europe must more than before.

Back in the 90's(?) Revenue left letters in the Dun Laoghaire Yacht Clubs addressed to the owners of a number of yachts, inquiring about their 'tax status'. These were left knocking around in the various clubs for ages, as on one wanted to collect their letter.

spaceHopper

Guys be aware that there are lots of scams going around, unless you can see the boat in the flesh or have somebody independant inspect it for you don't part with money

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=113781505

jetfiremuck

I purchased a 23' Shetland black prince. Early 80s solid well built though dated. It has the v6 mercruiser 4.3 with alpha gen2 outdrive. 300hrs when I bought it. I bought in the north last year after searching for quite a while. I have it on a trailer as for me being able to winterize, store , tow and explore other areas without the added costs of mooring etc and being able to work on it is a must for me. I tow it with no issues. The petrol v6 engine is trouble free and can move it quickly if needed, parts are reasonable and fuel consumption is ok for the hours I put on it. Diesel versions are more expensive to purchase. It has a toilet and 2 burner gas stove. Ill add a small 12v/gas fridge in the new year. Im intending on getting a suitcase generator for 220v if needed.

My suggestion is find a boat type/ layout that works for you and suits, then shop for the best you can.

Prices are higher here I found.

Donie75

jetfiremuck,
That Shetland sounds great. What do you need the generator for? If it's just for charging phones, tablets, etc. I would look at getting better batteries and fitting some USB sockets and maybe get a small invertor if required. A suitcase generator can be very noisy and can annoy other boaters moored nearby. I know the latest Honda's are very quiet but expensive.
It's better to keep things simple. You could also fit a solar panel on the roof.

jetfiremuck

Donie75 wrote: »

jetfiremuck,
That Shetland sounds great. What do you need the generator for? If it's just for charging phones, tablets, etc. I would look at getting better batteries and fitting some USB sockets and maybe get a small invertor if required. A suitcase generator can be very noisy and can annoy other boaters moored nearby. I know the latest Honda's are very quiet but expensive.
It's better to keep things simple. You could also fit a solar panel on the roof.

Have inverters etc. Honda 2200i is part of my go kit. 240v can run battery charger, etc. Gives me piece of mind.

sarahstrikes

Ok so just an update here, i have been refreshing literally everyday on done deal appollo etc. And it seems now that what i thought i could get for my budget is being blown out of the water by the covid situation and everyone buying up boats at inflated prices. My budget isnt massive by any means but ive been saving every penny i have to get us on the water and i think i may have to finance along with it at this stage which i really wanted to avoid. Im looking for a flybridge with aft cabin back in the years which seems to be the go to for everyone buying at the minute. Daily i swing between holding out for another year when the market gets flooded with all these boats that nobody wants to moor or maintain anymore and the other part of me is wondering would i get a cruiser with coastal cruising ability over from france on water with my dad who has sea skipper qualifications. Anyway sorry this is probably more of a rant than anything else but ill keep ye posted with any updates. Its great to hear everyones opinions and updates on the brexit situation which im pretty sure rules the uk out for buying at the minute.

jetfiremuck

sarahstrikes wrote: »

Ok so just an update here, i have been refreshing literally everyday on done deal appollo etc. And it seems now that what i thought i could get for my budget is being blown out of the water by the covid situation and everyone buying up boats at inflated prices. My budget isnt massive by any means but ive been saving every penny i have to get us on the water and i think i may have to finance along with it at this stage which i really wanted to avoid. Im looking for a flybridge with aft cabin back in the years which seems to be the go to for everyone buying at the minute. Daily i swing between holding out for another year when the market gets flooded with all these boats that nobody wants to moor or maintain anymore and the other part of me is wondering would i get a cruiser with coastal cruising ability over from france on water with my dad who has sea skipper qualifications. Anyway sorry this is probably more of a rant than anything else but ill keep ye posted with any updates. Its great to hear everyones opinions and updates on the brexit situation which im pretty sure rules the uk out for buying at the minute.

Dont give up looking . They do pop up and you have to be ready to move. That has been my experience.

sarahstrikes

jetfiremuck wrote: »

Dont give up looking . They do pop up and you have to be ready to move. That has been my experience.

Thank you jetfiremuck that gives me some hope. Im hoping that will be the case, im a big believer in whats for me wont pass me but i also need to be ready for it.

fergal.b

This might help with buying from the UK.

https://www.clarkeandcarter.co.uk/wp/wp-content/uploads/clarkeandcarter.co.uk/2021/01/Boating-after-BREXIT-guide.pdf?utm_source=emailCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=1880618_COS-73186-BAOB-ClarkeCarter-280121&dm_i=2VR1%2C14B3E%2C6EQ38K%2C4B86D%2C1&fbclid=IwAR3DKayQJXSk7j7pVxijtGGtYSQKpDwZ_Ttd5jRmu1oDRvAfPw3jzgB00sk









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Roadtoad

There were a couple of Birchwood TS37's in Carrick on Shannon late last summer. The prices may be a bit softer now if still unsold (no connection with vendors). You might have a look.

mossym

i know one of those sold for definite, it's moored up across from us down in tipp now

BobbyBingo

Roadtoad wrote: »

There were a couple of Birchwood TS37's in Carrick on Shannon late last summer. The prices may be a bit softer now if still unsold (no connection with vendors). You might have a look.

There was one last year for sale at the end of our jetty. I took a picture of it at the time and had to dig through the months to find it - the number on it is 087-665-4557

It's a big boat - I have a side on pic of it if you want me to email it to you.

sarahstrikes

Thank you everyone for your input and help. I managed to finally find a suitable family cruiser. I am buying from a family member who wasn't aware I was looking until I got myself into a position to buy and started putting the word out so I know the history of the boat and will be able to refer to him with questions and tips. It is an older boat no doubt but I really feel I can put my stamp on it and make it work for our family. I have settled on a berth and have started the process for insurance etc. and am hoping to move it up closer to me next weekend as I have started making my list of improvements and want to get stuck in straight away. I have no doubt this is going to be a happy all be it an expensive and time consuming journey into boat ownership. Thank you everyone for your help and advice and I have no doubt I will be looking for more help and advice in the future.

Roadtoad

sarahstrikes wrote: »

Thank you everyone for your input and help. I managed to finally find a suitable family cruiser. I am buying from a family member who wasn't aware I was looking until I got myself into a position to buy and started putting the word out so I know the history of the boat and will be able to refer to him with questions and tips. It is an older boat no doubt but I really feel I can put my stamp on it and make it work for our family. I have settled on a berth and have started the process for insurance etc. and am hoping to move it up closer to me next weekend as I have started making my list of improvements and want to get stuck in straight away. I have no doubt this is going to be a happy all be it an expensive and time consuming journey into boat ownership. Thank you everyone for your help and advice and I have no doubt I will be looking for more help and advice in the future.

The happiest day of a boatowners life! Enjoy it all.
Hope the kids become the best of river rats!

Donie75

That Birchwood TS37 is back on the market. https://www.apolloduck.ie/boat/birchwood-ts37-for-sale/643402