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Bus Éireann to close 5 Expressway Routes

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,621 ✭✭✭✭ banie01
    Registered User


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Irish Times reports several routes to be axed:

    * Dublin-Belfast
    * Dublin-Cork
    * Dublin-Galway
    * Dublin-Limerick
    * Galway-Shannon-Limerick (express)



    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/bus-%C3%A9ireann-to-shut-many-inter-city-routes-due-to-financial-pressures-1.4366478

    Killing intercity service to presumably improve commuter services and rural access to the main cities?

    I can't fathom the reasoning behind mixing intercity services tho?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,346 ✭✭✭✭ Geuze
    Registered User


    Is this due to COVID?

    Or due to competition from other operators?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭ timmyntc
    Registered User


    Geuze wrote: »
    Is this due to COVID?

    Or due to competition from other operators?

    Article states it's due to financial pressure from COVID restrictions.
    Not surprised.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 19,597 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Mr.S
    Moderator


    With the amount of private operators, I’m surprised they are the first to stop.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭ LuasSimon


    It’s fairly sad when the national bus carrier is cancelling routes between the big cities. The private operators all paying drivers minimum wage . We will be a nation of minimum wage employees soon . Everyone will need the government to provide housing for them as they’ll have no money to buy their own houses .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,527 ✭✭✭ munchkin_utd
    Registered User


    Mr.S wrote: »
    With the amount of private operators, I’m surprised they are the first to stop.
    How can they compete when their express takes 3h40 from galway to Dublin airport (as they have to go the old road between Athlone and galway) and the private bus is just 2h 30min

    This must have been coming a while


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,687 ✭✭✭ dublinman1990
    Registered User


    Oh no. The Dublin-Galway routes appear to be the biggest hits from this closure as they lose the 20/X20. That's bad news for people living on that route if they have to use limited options later on Gobus, Citylink & IÉ to get into Dublin as an alternative with no other options of privately run bus services are set up for their areas. Citylink & Gobus in Galway will be the only private bus services that operates a service to Dublin if the Expressway routes get shut.

    Do the 20/X20 serve areas of the country where there is no other bus service available to serve people in their locality?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,597 ✭✭✭ Xterminator
    Registered User


    The expressway routes are not covered by subvention, they are commercial routes that either pay for themselves or they dont.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull
    Moderator


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    It’s fairly sad when the national bus carrier is cancelling routes between the big cities. The private operators all paying drivers minimum wage . We will be a nation of minimum wage employees soon . Everyone will need the government to provide housing for them as they’ll have no money to buy their own houses .

    That's complete rubbish. All of the privates are certainly not paying minimum wage. I am sure there might be some but the likes of GoAhead, CityLink and Aircoach certainly are not.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 21,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk
    Moderator


    timmyntc wrote: »
    Article states it's due to financial pressure from COVID restrictions.
    Not surprised.

    According to the RTE article, it sounds to be more then just Covid:
    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0928/1168001-bus-eireann-expressway/
    The services between the capital and Galway, Limerick and Cork will end when the emergency supports for the routes expire which is expected to happen early next year.

    It would seem strange to me that they are shutting down the routes when you'd assume things should be returning to normal.

    The truth of the matter is that Expressway services have been struggling for years and have been haemorrhaging money for years. These routes simply aren't competitive to the other services operating these routes.

    I suspect they are just using Covid as cover for making cuts that were likely to happen anyway eventually.

    I'm very glad to hear that all staff will be retained and hopefully expanding PSO services.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull
    Moderator


    Reading between the lines, this is political posturing from Bus Eireann and I would not expect that the routes would be closed down fully at all and merely they are just trying to force a support line to be provided.

    They key bit of the article is
    It said no dates had been determined as yet as to when the services earmarked for closure would stop operating but that “changes are likely early next year when the current commercial bus operator emergency supports to the Cork, Limerick and Galway routes expire.

    This is directly aimed at the government and the NTA to provide ongoing support for these services, either through their current guises, or by replacing services through the small towns and villages with PSO connecting routes, like happened when they ommitted stoos from the X8 route a few years ago..

    It's a clever move by Bus Eireann.


  • Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭ soundman45
    Registered User


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    It’s fairly sad when the national bus carrier is cancelling routes between the big cities. The private operators all paying drivers minimum wage . We will be a nation of minimum wage employees soon . Everyone will need the government to provide housing for them as they’ll have no money to buy their own houses .

    Simply not true, Some private companies pay extremely well, also Bus Eireann pay for hours driven so a 12hr day might only pay 8hrs wages.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭ GT89
    Banned


    devnull wrote: »
    That's complete rubbish. All of the privates are certainly not paying minimum wage. I am sure there might be some but the likes of GoAhead, CityLink and Aircoach certainly are not.

    But none of them pay as well as state owned operators


  • Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭ soundman45
    Registered User


    GT89 wrote: »
    But none of them pay as well as state owned operators

    One of them does.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,851 ✭✭✭✭ BonnieSituation
    Registered User


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    It’s fairly sad when the national bus carrier is cancelling routes between the big cities. The private operators all paying drivers minimum wage . We will be a nation of minimum wage employees soon . Everyone will need the government to provide housing for them as they’ll have no money to buy their own houses .

    You did well to extrapolate all of that from this announcement.

    Improvements to city services should be welcomed. There's no demand for InterCity routes at present so why waste scant resources on them when Galway, Limerick and Cork will see improvements.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭ GT89
    Banned


    bk wrote: »
    According to the RTE article, it sounds to be more then just Covid:
    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0928/1168001-bus-eireann-expressway/

    Yep but for many businesses that were struggling anyway covid has been the final nail in the coffin. Debenhams for example had been struggling for some time but covid finished it off.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 21,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk
    Moderator


    Do the 20/X20 serve areas of the country where there is no other bus service available to serve people in their locality?

    The Citylink Stopping services looks to cover almost all the same stops as the 20.

    Both the Citylink and 20 have 5 departures a day, so similar enough. Though different departure times, so effectively a cutting in half of services on this route. Though perhaps Citylink will add extra services now, if the demand is there.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭ GT89
    Banned


    soundman45 wrote: »
    One of them does.

    Which one? It's not only basic pay there's other benefits too mind you with CIE companies like pensions, sick pay, overtime rates and sunday premium, free GP etc.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭ GT89
    Banned


    The expressway routes are not covered by subvention, they are commercial routes that either pay for themselves or they dont.

    Yeah but many of them should be as there is no alternative service particularly the ones not serving Dublin


  • Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭ soundman45
    Registered User


    GT89 wrote: »
    Which one? It's not only basic pay there's other benefits too mind you with CIE companies like pensions, sick pay, overtime rates and sunday premium, free GP etc.

    BE pay a composite rate, ie no Sunday premiums, flat hourly rate regardless of day, totally different structure to Dublin Bus.
    BE also have an extremely high rate of staff turnover of drivers and is certainly not the dream job many think it to be.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 21,074 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk
    Moderator


    GT89 wrote: »
    Yep but for many businesses that were struggling anyway covid has been the final nail in the coffin. Debenhams for example had been struggling for some time but covid finished it off.

    Oh definitely, a major shock like this can certainly put struggling business over the edge.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭ devnull
    Moderator


    GT89 wrote: »
    Yeah but many of them should be as there is no alternative service particularly the ones not serving Dublin

    Probably because there is no need and not enough demand to justify alternatives.

    If any of these routes close down, which I am extremely sceptical about, they're certainly going to see new PSO routes implemented for the smaller towns left Unserved.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ john boye
    Registered User


    Isn't there an order of New coaches on the way for Expressway?


  • Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭ soundman45
    Registered User


    john boye wrote: »
    Isn't there an order of New coaches on the way for Expressway?

    I'd agree with Devnull, its nothing more than politics at play between BE and the NTA.


  • Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭ bocaman
    Registered User


    Not surprised by this to be honest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭ andrewfaulk
    Registered User


    soundman45 wrote: »
    I'd agree with Devnull, its nothing more than politics at play between BE and the NTA.


    Will be interesting to see how this plays out, as I would imagine the NTA will be squeezed for funds over the next few years and that no funds for Intercity/Expressway routes will be forthcoming.. Maybe BE know this and they are willing to offer up their Expressway routes as a sacrificial lamb in return for more city services(maybe the Go ahead/ non-BE operators being pegged back?)

    The article reads as though BE and the unions want to push the NTA to provide further subsidies for City services(which can and do receive PSOs), so that staff can be retained/re-deployed..


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭ GT89
    Banned


    Will be interesting to see how this plays out, as I would imagine the NTA will be squeezed for funds over the next few years and that no funds for Intercity/Expressway routes will be forthcoming.. Maybe BE know this and they are willing to offer up their Expressway routes as a sacrificial lamb in return for more city services(maybe the Go ahead/ non-BE operators being pegged back?)

    The article reads as though BE and the unions want to push the NTA to provide further subsidies for City services(which can and do receive PSOs), so that staff can be retained/re-deployed..

    What about Broadstone based routes will they be expanding their Dublin commuter routes or could some drivers be transferred to DB for their expanded operations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭ Morby
    Registered User


    Is there any other private company currently doing the Galway to Shannon Airport route?


  • Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭ andrewfaulk
    Registered User


    GT89 wrote: »
    What about Broadstone based routes will they be expanding their Dublin commuter routes or could some drivers be transferred to DB for their expanded operations.

    I wonder if some drives will be moved over to the Meath commuter/NX routes to improve the service.. Might convince the NTA not to take the routes off them in the next tender


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9
    Registered User


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/public-transport-needs-460m-to-keep-running-eamon-ryan-warned-1.4365805
    The National Transport Authority (NTA) has given new funding forecasts for transport to the Government, with recent estimates showing that €460 million extra will be needed for the rest of the year, in addition to the approximately €300 million already spent to date.

    €760 million in 2020, lets assume 20% fare recovery in 2021 there is still a major funding gap for 2021 so these routes may well be axed. Not sure TDs will be able to save them with such funding demands.


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