Beef price tracker 2

Base price

Bass Reeves wrote: »

A lot will depend on what way Brexit deal looks. If it start going down to the wire except processor's go start killing a load of cattle to get them into the UK in case of issues in January.

As well with no Christmas parties there will not be as much demand for white meat pre Christmas do there may be not be the normal slowdown in 1-2 weeks time.

Looking at online mart sales across the country in the last couple of weeks - cull FR/FRx dairy cows outta of the parlour are making €1-1.20/kg and more if they have a skin of flesh. From memory (stand corrected) there were +60,000 more dairy females added the national herd in the past two years.
IMO there is an appetite for cull cows from Northern buyers for the British market.

DukeCaboom

Base price wrote: »

Looking at online mart sales across the country in the last couple of weeks - cull FR/FRx dairy cows outta of the parlour are making €1-1.20/kg and more if they have a skin of flesh. From memory (stand corrected) there were +60,000 more dairy females added the national herd in the past two years.
IMO there is an appetite for cull cows from Northern buyers for the British market.

There's none of them going north definitely down here anyway.
I wouldn't take much notice of the marts.
A lot of cows that are any way straight are been bought by dairy dealers to bull.
There's a few insane lunatics buying them to winter for grass next year alright.
Virtually none are been bought to fatten out of a hse in 3 months time.
There's alot of positive chat about a price rise and cow wise there has been a lift on last week so it's easy to see why anything with a touch on her rib is making plenty.

kk.man

Jjameson wrote: »

Seems to be a serious appetite for Angus cattle, anything with a skin of flesh over 520 Kgs is a flier. Was trying to pick up a few stores for a friend in local marts in last few weeks and the rise on these types in the last few weeks would be anything from 40 to 100 squid.

That's a serious rise... I feel for your friend I honestly don't know how ppl make a margin out of buying store AA cattle. I done loads of calculations over the last few years and it just doesn't add up. They just don't come into heavy weights dead for the premium attached to them on purchase.

Cavanjack

DukeCaboom wrote: »

There's none of them going north definitely down here anyway.
I wouldn't take much notice of the marts.
A lot of cows that are any way straight are been bought by dairy dealers to bull.
There's a few insane lunatics buying them to winter for grass next year alright.
Virtually none are been bought to fatten out of a hse in 3 months time.
There's alot of positive chat about a price rise and cow wise there has been a lift on last week so it's easy to see why anything with a touch on her rib is making plenty.

Was talking to a dealer/agent last week who has a couple of sheds full of cows to fatten out of it in a few months time.

DukeCaboom

Cavanjack wrote: »

Was talking to a dealer/agent last week who has a couple of sheds full of cows to fatten out of it in a few months time.

Colour or fr

Cavanjack

DukeCaboom wrote: »

Colour or fr

Friesian’s straight from the parlour

DukeCaboom

Cavanjack wrote: »

Friesian’s straight from the parlour

Jesus!

weatherbyfoxer

Jjameson wrote: »

Seems to be a serious appetite for Angus cattle, anything with a skin of flesh over 520 Kgs is a flier. Was trying to pick up a few stores for a friend in local marts in last few weeks and the rise on these types in the last few weeks would be anything from 40 to 100 squid.

surly there is currently bit of an margin if a lad was buying aa calves for around €150 at 3 or 4 weeks old and getting them 500kgs by there second November?

DukeCaboom

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

surly there is currently bit of an margin if a lad was buying aa calves for around €150 at 3 or 4 weeks old and getting them 500kgs by there second November?

There was an Agus heifer in macroom Saturday 440kg €940. She was 3 foot wide to be fair.

Bass Reeves

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

surly there is currently bit of an margin if a lad was buying aa calves for around €150 at 3 or 4 weeks old and getting them 500kgs by there second November?

Bought some poor AA stores late last year. Most were April/May 18. they varied from 300-400kgs. Really hungry one they cost from 450-600euro, they averaged a bit with 500euro. There was 9 of them. 6 of them are slaughtered averaging 1300euro at 340kgs approx(5 were in November so got the 20c bonus). Three were Feb/March born cattle and went over age. Two will be slaughtered pre Christmas and the last one has a damaged hoof so will be a while yet.

If you could buy light April/ May born ones this time of year or next spring/early summer at handy money they would leave s nice touch. Even AA calves born late in the year would be fit for slaughter now. An AA bullock O+grading hanging 290DW will make over 1100euro.

But not every year is like this year where beef price has been virtually the same all year with no Autumn drop in price and good weight gain throughout the year

Dunedin

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Bought some poor AA stores late last year. Most were April/May 18. they varied from 300-400kgs. Really hungry one they cost from 450-600euro, they averaged a bit with 500euro. There was 9 of them. 6 of them are slaughtered averaging 1300euro at 340kgs approx(5 were in November so got the 20c bonus). Three were Feb/March born cattle and went over age. Two will be slaughtered pre Christmas and the last one has a damaged hoof so will be a while yet.

If you could buy light April/ May born ones this time of year or next spring/early summer at handy money they would leave s nice touch. Even AA calves born late in the year would be fit for slaughter now. An AA bullock O+grading hanging 290DW will make over 1100euro.

But not every year is like this year where beef price has been virtually the same all year with no Autumn drop in price and good weight gain throughout the year

What would be the margin when you factor in insurance, fencing, hedge cutting, slurry/dung, silage, diesel, land costs, depreciation on machinery, depreciation on sheds, meal, any repayments, meal, fertiliser, accountant fees, own labour costs, vet fees, medicine, lighting in sheds/electricity, lime, reseeding, vermin control, straw, minerals, repairs to sheds, repairs to machinery?

Grueller

Dunedin wrote: »

What would be the margin when you factor in insurance, fencing, hedge cutting, slurry/dung, silage, diesel, land costs, depreciation on machinery, depreciation on sheds, meal, any repayments, meal, fertiliser, accountant fees, own labour costs, vet fees, medicine, lighting in sheds/electricity, lime, reseeding, vermin control, straw, minerals, repairs to sheds, repairs to machinery?

Fair play Dunedin.

Bass Reeves

Dunedin wrote: »

What would be the margin when you factor in insurance, fencing, hedge cutting, slurry/dung, silage, diesel, land costs, depreciation on machinery, depreciation on sheds, meal, any repayments, meal, fertiliser, accountant fees, own labour costs, vet fees, medicine, lighting in sheds/electricity, lime, reseeding, vermin control, straw, minerals, repairs to sheds, repairs to machinery?

I have my total variable costs calculated at about 350/head over all cattle. Total fixed costs are minimal at this stage. Adding back the reality of some costs on books not being totally farm related make it a good part time business.

By end of year will have 65-70cattle finished this year. Say 65, projected gross margins will be over 600/head. Net margin @260/head to I'll be 16.8k, SFP 8k, ANC 2.4k,Reps 1.6k, slaughter scheme1.1k.
Total nearly 30 k. I have also the old farm house done up total rental return is over 7.5k in a full year.

I manage the farm in 3 hours a day if I really tried but I am retired from my career and just stretch it a little bit more than that. Farm is about 12 miles from me. Them AA left me over 350/ head. If every animal managed that I be hitting another 5-8k.

Hard Knocks

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I have my total variable costs calculated at about 350/head over all cattle. Total fixed costs are minimal at this stage. Adding back the reality of some costs on books not being totally farm related make it a good part time business.

By end of year will have 65-70cattle finished this year. Say 65, projected gross margins will be over 600/head. Net margin @260/head to I'll be 16.8k, SFP 8k, ANC 2.4k,Reps 1.6k, slaughter scheme1.1k.
Total nearly 30 k. I have also the old farm house done up total rental return is over 7.5k in a full year.

I manage the farm in 3 hours a day if I really tried but I am retired from my career and just stretch it a little bit more than that. Farm is about 12 miles from me. Them AA left me over 350/ head. If every animal managed that I be hitting another 5-8k.

Our of curiosity and you that’s good at sums
If you bought these as yearling stores as per the 9 @€;500av
If the calf costs €150 @ 3 weeks
Would the rearer have any margin from the €350?

Bass Reeves

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Our of curiosity and you that’s good at sums
If you bought these as yearling stores as per the 9 @€;500av
If the calf costs €150 @ 3 weeks
Would the rearer have any margin from the €350?

He have nothing out of them, they were very poorly done some were barely able to walk into the ring. As Jam says they were gambling cattle. I guessed that they hit 1100 minimum when buying. They did a nice touch better. Pay 100 euro more for them and you are at nothing as one could go toes up. The two being fed should hit 300 euro but they went into the shed early October Add about 130 extra to the 350 to get there total costs. I be happy if they have the weight to hit 1250-1300 euro. The lad with the bad hoof looks like he might be there until next Summer as he is not fleshing up

dryan

3.70 base for steers on offer in Kilbeggan. Tempted to offload a few.
any other quotes out there?

kk.man

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I have my total variable costs calculated at about 350/head over all cattle. Total fixed costs are minimal at this stage. Adding back the reality of some costs on books not being totally farm related make it a good part time business.

By end of year will have 65-70cattle finished this year. Say 65, projected gross margins will be over 600/head. Net margin @260/head to I'll be 16.8k, SFP 8k, ANC 2.4k,Reps 1.6k, slaughter scheme1.1k.
Total nearly 30 k. I have also the old farm house done up total rental return is over 7.5k in a full year.

I manage the farm in 3 hours a day if I really tried but I am retired from my career and just stretch it a little bit more than that. Farm is about 12 miles from me. Them AA left me over 350/ head. If every animal managed that I be hitting another 5-8k.

Bass is that 260e before variable costs?

Dunedin

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I have my total variable costs calculated at about 350/head over all cattle. Total fixed costs are minimal at this stage.

Pretty much all of what I listed out is a variable cost. What’s the breakdown of the €350 (even just a list of the items making up the cost)

Jb1989

dryan wrote: »

3.70 base for steers on offer in Kilbeggan. Tempted to offload a few.
any other quotes out there?

Havent heard a move,
but Showed 2 factory fit bullocks today in mart.
3.93 on a 55 percent killout or 4. 00 on a 54 percent.
So a 3.73 or 3.80 base when 20c QA took off.

Bass Reeves

Dunedin wrote: »

Pretty much all of what I listed out is a variable cost. What’s the breakdown of the €350 (even just a list of the items making up the cost)

Winter feeding costs Inc minerals 110 euro
Grazing costs 100 euro
Ration for finishing 45euro
Vet &dosing 15 euro
Mortality 8 euro
Miscellaneous 70/ head.

Dunedin

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Winter feeding costs Inc minerals 110 euro
Grazing costs 100 euro
Ration for finishing 45euro
Vet &dosing 15 euro
Mortality 8 euro
Miscellaneous 70/ head.

What about insurance, fencing, hedge cutting, slurry, depreciation, land costs, diesel, tractor tax, farm vehicle tax and insurance, reseeding, lime, farm wet gear, vermin control, repairs to sheds, accounting fees, own labour costs, machinery repairs, handle for the grape every few years.

The above all apply to suckler cows so surely they apply to stores as well and must be included???

tatoo

Dunedin wrote: »

What about insurance, fencing, hedge cutting, slurry, depreciation, land costs, diesel, tractor tax, farm vehicle tax and insurance, reseeding, lime, farm wet gear, vermin control, repairs to sheds, accounting fees, own labour costs, machinery repairs, handle for the grape every few years.

The above all apply to suckler cows so surely they apply to stores as well and must be included???

Cripes, if we included all of them we'd be working for nothing!

grange mac

tatoo wrote: »

Cripes, if we included all of them we'd be working for nothing!

Most beef farmers are working for Larry.... They just don't realise it or refuse to admit it....Im in denyal myself 😂 😂

Bass Reeves

Dunedin wrote: »

What about insurance, fencing, hedge cutting, slurry, depreciation, land costs, diesel, tractor tax, farm vehicle tax and insurance, reseeding, lime, farm wet gear, vermin control, repairs to sheds, accounting fees, own labour costs, machinery repairs, handle for the grape every few years.

The above all apply to suckler cows so surely they apply to stores as well and must be included???

We have two cars on the books capital costs are 22k or 14.333k in capital allowances. There is 7.5k in running costs approx which translate to 5k in allowances. Now I can get in to semantics and say my farm vehicle costs or tell you that it 97 euro/ head. If I was not a beef farmer I still have to pay them so I consider it a BIK not a cost.

Slurry is nutrient that included in the bale silage costs. It cost me 1400 euro last year to spread slurry.. I made 260 bales. Silage bales costs are mow, bale, wrap and plastic 13/ bale. Fertilizer 10/bale Inc slurry @5.4/ bale, N @ 3.1/ bale and extra p&K at 1.5/bale. Additive 1/ bale, Transport 1/ bale. That 25/ bale I actually cist it at 27.5/ bale at present.

Total farm insurance which is our home, the rental, two tractors and farm is 1450 off the top of my head this year, All is written off against tax along with rubbish collection so while not a BIK, it not an added cost either.

Grazing costs are 100/ head or 7k this year, it will includes reseeding ( not that I did any this year), fencing ( about 800 euro this year), hedge cutting ( none this year ), fertilizer ( total bill 2800 this year 50%to grazing,50% to silage).

I suppose as well as the handle for the fork( grape) or yard brush and yard scraper I should Inc the dog and cat which are at home not on the farm. The cat eats a can of catfood every two days a bit of dry cat food. She costs 35c/ day. The dog is a Springer spaniel. It was bought for the youngest lad 12 years ago. He has a bit of remumtism. He getting a drug for it it cost 100/ year. He gets a can of dog food every second day and a nice bit of dried dog food he costs about 60c/ day. Dog and cat feed costs are 330/ year. Dog was at vet this year 30 euro I think and both were worked 7 euro. Total 467 on the books or 6.6/ head

Accountant is 800 for the year to do two rentals, farm and other personal taxation. Some is allowed in the misc costs 5/ head would nearly cover half the bill. I do not rent land so no land rental costs, the money I make covers my labour costs. I am not in to semantics but I have a fair idea of my costs and what I can draw in profit efficiently from the farm. It pays bills anything I can write off I do. I know it not as profitable as other businesses however I am not tied to it like I be to other businesses.

tatoo

dryan wrote: »

3.70 base for steers on offer in Kilbeggan. Tempted to offload a few.
any other quotes out there?

I have a few to go as well soon, any quotes for next week around?
Looked at the agriland app, does it quote the grid price anywhere, or are their prices an average of grid price plus BB bonus and any breed bonuses that might apply?

Count Mondego

As a matter of interest, what kind of acreage do you farm bass?

Bass Reeves

Count Mondego wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what kind of acreage do you farm bass?

24 HA goes in for farm payments and that is pushing it a bit. I have 1-2 dodgy acres if I got an inspection

Cavanjack

Any quotes for the coming week?

DukeCaboom

Cavanjack wrote: »

Any quotes for the coming week?

Talk of a cut in blks down here.

Cavanjack

DukeCaboom wrote: »

Talk of a cut in blks down here.

Well that was short lived.

Jb1989

Cavanjack wrote: »

Any quotes for the coming week?

3.80. Plus 20. Plus 10 for under 340 kg. Not sure which plant

dryan

Any quotes this week?

DBK1

dryan wrote: »

Any quotes this week?

€3.75 for heifers in the midlands from 2 factories. They’re determined not to give any more. They’re getting plenty of cows in so don’t need to give any more apparently.

DukeCaboom

DBK1 wrote: »

€3.75 for heifers in the midlands from 2 factories. They’re determined not to give any more. They’re getting plenty of cows in so don’t need to give any more apparently.

That's actually the same as our local. No bite at all for prime, but getting plenty of cows.

Bass Reeves

DukeCaboom wrote: »

That's actually the same as our local. No bite at all for prime, but getting plenty of cows.

Last week and this weeks are always bad weeks for cattle. You never see the winter price rise starting until next week as White meat takes centre stage. It may be later his week as some larger finishers are throwing cattle at feedlots that normally would be held until January. Alot now depends on Brexit. For processors it the gift that keeps on giving.

Bass Reeves

Jjameson wrote: »

MII are lobbying for an Brexit aid package. They are sharpening their knives to pull another coup.

Using taxes to fund slaughter compensation schemes while not actually examine the books of a cartel of processors who are dominating Europe beef industry is starting to become a perpetual government policy.

When retailers and processor's are allowed to operate using multiple company format to hide there true profitability even examination of there books would show little . You need to look at linked companies as well. ABP group borrow there working capital from a linked Goodman company based in Luxembourg

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

Every family member is a director or employee, corporate expenses cover every thing from horse racing to private helicopters. Nearly impossible to accurately estimate.

Isn’t our beef supposed to be traceable from farm to fork! Follow it and assert what’s being paid for what. Get answers from the wholesalers and retailers.

In the aftermath of the horsemeat scandal I sold in spec Angus bullocks that miraculously graded r at very near 5€ a kg.

Surely no one has to divulge their business information, It's really none of anyones business

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

Surely no one has to divulge their business information, It's really none of anyones business

Jjameson wrote: »

When they are lobbying for monetary aid there should be an onus to prove beyond doubt that they are actually out of pocket and not actually benefiting.

It interesting that CRH is after publicly announcing that it is returning the COVID employment payments that it received earlier in the year. It stated it took the payment at the time but that there was not a substantial enough effect on its market for it to retain the payment and that in the economic interest of the country it could not in good faith retain the payment. I think as well it stated that it markets recovered even though it took a hit earlier during the lockdown

I think Google and a few other Internet companies as well returned payment. IKEA was one of the first retail companies to refund exchequer payments in lift of not suffering a huge economic hit.

However it interesting that one again MII goes running to the government. It interesting as well that over the last 2-3 weeks Gastro pubs and Restaurants could not access the quanties they required of AA especially but HE steak as retail demand of supermarkets was taking more of this product than normal.

In a normal market in such a situation competing companies would try to grab market share and procure extra supplies by either actively competing againstinst each other for these cattle or use it as a chance to change specifications such as allowing bonus on these on cattle up to 36 months


The worst of it is that farm originations and farm publication never question this BS but consider the answer to be subsidities which do not reflect the market cost to farmers.

Even though I have a few cattle that will be slaughtered now and after Christmas I prefer if government refused and we started to see hard questions asked of why more cannot be extracted from the market

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It interesting that CRH is after publicly announcing that it is returning the COVID employment payments that it received earlier in the year. It stated it took the payment at the time but that there was not a substantial enough effect on its market for it to retain the payment and that in the economic interest of the country it could not in good faith retain the payment. I think as well it stated that it markets recovered even though it took a hit earlier during the lockdown

I think Google and a few other Internet companies as well returned payment. IKEA was one of the first retail companies to refund exchequer payments in lift of not suffering a huge economic hit.

However it interesting that one again MII goes running to the government. It interesting as well that over the last 2-3 weeks Gastro pubs and Restaurants could not access the quanties they required of AA especially but HE steak as retail demand of supermarkets was taking more of this product than normal.

In a normal market in such a situation competing companies would try to grab market share and procure extra supplies by either actively competing againstinst each other for these cattle or use it as a chance to change specifications such as allowing bonus on these on cattle up to 36 months


The worst of it is that farm originations and farm publication never question this BS but consider the answer to be subsidities which do not reflect the market cost to farmers.

Even though I have a few cattle that will be slaughtered now and after Christmas I prefer if government refused and we started to see hard questions asked of why more cannot be extracted from the market

Brexit or covid didn't affect farmers as well but there's no one giving back the money

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

Brexit or covid didn't affect farmers as well but there's no one giving back the money

BS COVID has been used as an excuse to supress beef prices. They were fast enough to dish out the price decrease in April but are using it now to strangle the recovery. Rations are up by 50/ton in last 12 months.

Only money farmers got was the winter prices support. My understanding is that some if not all processors have received the COVID wage support. It has more than compensated them for any extra costs. They seemed to have strong demand all summer since late May.

There is also an onus on larger companies who are hugely profitable to behave ethically. It interesting as well if rumours that the Goodman family are supposedly looking to exit the ABP and possibly float them as a PLC. The EU is looking more closely at the meat processing industry and the imbalance within the industry. Maybe. The wild west ethos within the industry is coming into too close scrunity

White Clover

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It interesting that CRH is after publicly announcing that it is returning the COVID employment payments that it received earlier in the year. It stated it took the payment at the time but that there was not a substantial enough effect on its market for it to retain the payment and that in the economic interest of the country it could not in good faith retain the payment. I think as well it stated that it markets recovered even though it took a hit earlier during the lockdown

I think Google and a few other Internet companies as well returned payment. IKEA was one of the first retail companies to refund exchequer payments in lift of not suffering a huge economic hit.

However it interesting that one again MII goes running to the government. It interesting as well that over the last 2-3 weeks Gastro pubs and Restaurants could not access the quanties they required of AA especially but HE steak as retail demand of supermarkets was taking more of this product than normal.

In a normal market in such a situation competing companies would try to grab market share and procure extra supplies by either actively competing againstinst each other for these cattle or use it as a chance to change specifications such as allowing bonus on these on cattle up to 36 months


The worst of it is that farm originations and farm publication never question this BS but consider the answer to be subsidities which do not reflect the market cost to farmers.

Even though I have a few cattle that will be slaughtered now and after Christmas I prefer if government refused and we started to see hard questions asked of why more cannot be extracted from the market

Looked for a few beef dinners for a group last week, only 7 to be got!!

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

BS COVID has been used as an excuse to supress beef prices. They were fast enough to dish out the price decrease in April but are using it now to strangle the recovery. Rations are up by 50/ton in last 12 months.

Only money farmers got was the winter prices support. My understanding is that some if not all processors have received the COVID wage support. It has more than compensated them for any extra costs. They seemed to have strong demand all summer since late May.

There is also an onus on larger companies who are hugely profitable to behave ethically. It interesting as well if rumours that the Goodman family are supposedly looking to exit the ABP and possibly float them as a PLC. The EU is looking more closely at the meat processing industry and the imbalance within the industry. Maybe. The wild west ethos within the industry is coming into too close scrunity

Old people used to say that if you keep doing what you made your money on you'll eventually lose it, I've seen loads of examples of this over the years.
Good operators know when to cash in

kk.man

TBF there is a possibility of a doomsday scenario looming but no one can say for certain what the actual effect will be on the industry.

What I got from the joint statement was the fact that these 3 or 4 processors came together and issued it. They have repeatedly stated they don't talk to each other! Now before the keyboard warriors attack me, haven't they a little vehicle called MII for that very purpose.

Bass Reeves

kk.man wrote: »

TBF there is a possibility of a doomsday scenario looming but no one can say for certain what the actual effect will be on the industry.

What I got from the joint statement was the fact that these 3 or 4 processors came together and issued it. They have repeatedly stated they don't talk to each other! Now before the keyboard warriors attack me, haven't they a little vehicle called MII for that very purpose.

Lethal Weapon quote

Roger Murtaugh : [discussing a theory] That's pretty ****ing thin.

Martin Riggs : That's very thin.

Roger Murtaugh : What the hell, thin's my middle name.


It just a coincidence like they say thin mighty thin

Cavanjack

Any predictions as to what the price of beef will be over the next few months with the brexit thing sorted (hopefully)? Numbers are sure to tighten with less finishing this winter due to the uncertainty.

Hagimalone

When are factories back killing?

Jb1989

Hagimalone wrote: »

When are factories back killing?

Kepak was due to be killing 3 days this week.

DukeCaboom

Hagimalone wrote: »

When are factories back killing?

Ours is back tomorrow. They were saying its some pain in the hole with lads gone home & having to quarantine when they're back.

dryan

Any quotes?
Held a few steers back in November. Quoted 3.70 today so no sign of change.

Jb1989

dryan wrote: »

Any quotes?
Held a few steers back in November. Quoted 3.70 today so no sign of change.

Donegal still the pick at 3.80 if meeting the requirements. Don't expect a price rise as it was starting to slip the days before Christmas. Holding onto current base is all I can imagine atm