Tour de France 2020 | Stage 20 ITT (Lure - La Planche des Belles Filles, 36.2km)

People I know with no interest in cycling have been following because of Sam getting on the news most evenings and sending me messages this evening losing their **** after watching the TT earlier.

My granny who is 92 follows the tour religiously every year and has no interest in cycling otherwise and I had to check in on her to make sure she hadn't had a heart attack or something after that today.

She was super pissed Rog lost

rurs

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Do you mean Paris-Roubaix ?

Paris-Nice was in March

I presumed Paris-Tours

raclle

Deleted User wrote: »

People I know with no interest in cycling have been following because of Sam

Yup that would be me but i'm thoroughly enjoying it. I'm like this with most sports to be honest. I'd only watch the snooker world championships, the Rugby 6 nations, Grand slam Tennis, Golf majors etc...

https://twitter.com/shoutybird64/status/1307415032460967944

Some comments calling them on the team work and others mentioned back room and technical staff are the team too but who cares the buzz in that coach tonight must be something else.

raclle

raclle wrote: »

Yup that would be me but i'm thoroughly enjoying it. I'm like this with most sports to be honest. I'd only watch the snooker world championships, the Rugby 6 nations, Grand slam Tennis, Golf majors etc...

Well if you enjoyed the tour you'll be glad to know that usually it's the least exciting of the 3 big grand tours and that the Vuelta and Giro are usually better by miles. I say usually as there no ****ing way the Giro or Vuelta can top that this year ... or can they? both will be on eurosport in the coming weeks and the vuelta on itv 4 too I think.

Brian?

Cormo87 wrote: »

Didn't watch it live but caught the highlights.

Like everyone else, I thought it was over but what a result!!! Unbelievable to see Pog take it.

I seen someone mention earlier on in one of the stage threads that this tour has been the best sporting event of 2020 and I have to agree its been brilliant.

I didn’t enjoy this years tour at all, until today. Too many mountain stages finished on a down hill. Hours of watching Jumbo riding tempo and no one really attacking.

This one unbelievable stage doesn’t make up for the rest of the Tour. Some rule changes are needed, starting with banning power meters and race radio.

swarlb

Eamonnator wrote: »

I think you're right. Giro and Vuelta yes, but no Tour.

Colnago built the frames Eddy Merckx used in the 70's. They were 'branded' Eddy Merckx, but made by Colnago.

Randy Archer

Deleted User wrote: »

He has another chance at a sprint tomorrow and is maybe more motivated now given todays events which might not be good for Sam.

True . The team owe it to him to help him out . Tony Martin driving through train a silly pace , then backed up by Tom D , Intermediate Sprint absolutely he could take points and then who knows ?

He put in a massive effort today though

Don’t forget little Caleb Ewen (spelling ? ) he took it handy enough today

Randy Archer

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

Do you mean Paris-Roubaix ?

Paris-Nice was in March

My bad , sorry, Paris Roubaix - nice is 7 days and already held

Randy Archer

rurs wrote: »

I presumed Paris-Tours

No , I meant Roubaix but the Paris Tours, isn’t that the really long flat race after TDF ? A sprinters race ? Would he have a better shot on Tours as opppsed to Roubaix (Specialise have a dedicated bike for that ) or would there be questions over Sam having the engine / legs and handling skills for Roubaix ? Don’t think he rode it much

breezy1985

Randy Archer wrote: »

No , I meant Roubaix but the Paris Tours, isn’t that the really long flat race after TDF ? A sprinters race ? Would he have a better shot on Tours as opppsed to Roubaix (Specialise have a dedicated bike for that ) or would there be questions over Sam having the engine / legs and handling skills for Roubaix ? Don’t think he rode it much

Thing is at a top classics team like DQS I doubt he would ever be considered the main man for PR

Randy Archer

Deleted User wrote: »

Well if you enjoyed the tour you'll be glad to know that usually it's the least exciting of the 3 big grand tours and that the Vuelta and Giro are usually better by miles. I say usually as there no ****ing way the Giro or Vuelta can top that this year ... or can they? both will be on eurosport in the coming weeks and the vuelta on itv 4 too I think.

Ah trust the Giro to be blown to pieces by someone’s bad luck etc

2017 when Tom D went for a **** in the field and all Nariomam had to do was try to cut down on the gap that he was expected to lose on the TT

Then you got 2018 and Yates blowing up and Chris Froome going Nuclear on everyone with Tom D again fighting to win

Last year , compliments of Movie Star Netflix film we had a battle of which team mate was the strongest and Landa throwing stropes , a poor TT and the DS cocking up. Not to mention Lotto Screwing their best TT man and current 1 hour record holder by going for a piss when the rider needed a push when changing bikes (not going to try and spell his name) Oh and Roglic kinda did a Yates by blowing up - but still made podium

Weather also throws up a few clangers in Italy along with a few stray dogs and walkers

Italy is wacky races and they sure love their local riders doing well

The Vuelta , as you pointed out is Helter skelter often surrounding Chris Froome , Contador and of man Valverde (pretending or claiming not to hear a team mates call for a gel or aid lol)

The real excitement in a season is March - April for the monuments and a few of the semi classics ! Every Sunday baby , from St Paddy’s weekend (SAN Remo ) to Easter (Roubaix ) to the GC climbers coming over for Liege Bastion Liege. Amstel had an exciting finish last year too. And Gilbert reeled back the years with a win at Roubaix

Even last years October races in Italy were pretty good considering neither of the GT editions were easy routes

Randy Archer

breezy1985 wrote: »

Thing is at a top classics team like DQS I doubt he would ever be considered the main man for PR

Ya. Fair point . It’s almost like the team take turns on who wins this weekend . They always have a plan B . And sure, they are Belgian , they’d want their boys to do well - saying that - Julian A was in the mix for most of the classics last year and got on the podium at this year San Remo

Often wondered why Cavendish mostly did stage races in his pomp rather than some of the monuments (I know he did San Remo and is based in Italy) different skills and ability needed for a classic to chasing points jerseys in a stage race or ability to go full on in a classic vs ability to recover in a stage race and take it easy on some days (can’t do that in one days)

Dodge

Randy Archer wrote: »

Often wondered why Cavendish mostly did stage races in his pomp rather than some of the monuments

Despite some fans love of the monuments, shorter stage races and even those who enjoy Vuelta or Giro more than the TDF... the TDF drives the whole sport.

Every sponsor wants to be involved and every rider wants to be featured. You only have to look at some of the reactions this year (Sam being the most obvious). The Tour is is still the biggest show in cycling by a long long way

Cookie_Monster

Brian? wrote: »

Some rule changes are needed, starting with banning power meters and race radio.

I've long thought this, together with removing all but 1 of the team cars per team.
Commentators were talking about how all the riders now have maps on their computers too now so they know each and every corner coming up on the downhill. Takes it too far into the technical IMO, a bit like F1 these days how its just about the data and little else.

breezy1985

Dodge wrote: »

Despite some fans love of the monuments, shorter stage races and even those who enjoy Vuelta or Giro more than the TDF... the TDF drives the whole sport.

Every sponsor wants to be involved and every rider wants to be featured. You only have to look at some of the reactions this year (Sam being the most obvious). The Tour is is still the biggest show in cycling by a long long way

Especially if you are from the anglophone countries. Also Cavendish was pretty useless at everything except the last 500m so MSR is the only classic would suit and even then its not a nailed on sprint every year

Brian?

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I've long thought this, together with removing all but 1 of the team cars per team.
Commentators were talking about how all the riders now have maps on their computers too now so they know each and every corner coming up on the downhill. Takes it too far into the technical IMO, a bit like F1 these days how its just about the data and little else.

I’ve no problem with the team cars to be honest. I hate seeing races won/lost on a mechanical.

I think the race organisers, especially for the Tour, need to take action on a few fronts: limit technology, but also stage design. There were so many mountain stages that finished on the flat this year. Jumbo just rode tempo on the front so no one could attack, boooooooring.

The only thing that saved this Tour for me was Sam Bennet. Having someone I’m loosely connected to winning the green jersey is amazing.

I was in absolute shock yesterday. I’m not sure I’ll be shocked when we find out how Pogacar managed to pull it off.

Brian?

Dodge wrote: »

Despite some fans love of the monuments, shorter stage races and even those who enjoy Vuelta or Giro more than the TDF... the TDF drives the whole sport.

Every sponsor wants to be involved and every rider wants to be featured. You only have to look at some of the reactions this year (Sam being the most obvious). The Tour is is still the biggest show in cycling by a long long way

By a huge margin. Living in the Netherlands, close to Belgium it’s pretty much wall to wall cycling anyway. When the Tour is on, everyone talks about cycling at work the way Irish people do about GAA or Rugby. Only F1 gets more discussion because of Max.

monkeybutter

breezy1985 wrote: »

He was only 1'21 ahead of Porte/Tom and 11' ahead of last place its not like he OTLed half the field. And its not like Pog came out of nowhere and what people forget about Lance is he was looking like a decent classics guy but no world beater and the drugs could even turn sprinters into GC guys

Oh yeah only 1 minute and 21 ahead of the field on a time trial, happens all the time sure


Dead easy



:rolleyes:

CramCycle

MOD VOICE: Its pretty obvious what some people are implying (not saying it directly doesn't get around the rules). Just stop it, it's not allowed here, if you have an issue PM me, no more suggestions in thread.

G1032

monkeybutter wrote: »

Oh yeah only 1 minute and 21 ahead of the field on a time trial, happens all the time sure


Dead easy



:rolleyes:

So a couple of things here:

Cadence. Looking specifically at 3 riders. Pogacar, Dumoulin and Roglic
Pogacar seemed to go up the climb with the perfect cadence. Roglic was pedalling at way too high a cadence. He just wasn't putting out enough power. And Dumoulin seemed to be grinding a bit up the climb. But Dumoulin did the climb on his TT bike.. It's possible they got the gearing wrong and if he had gone a gear lower it might have been too low. He would have had big gaps in the cassette compared to what Pogacar would have had on his cassette on the climb. Pog would have had something like a 16 or 17 to 28. Dumoulin had to spread the 11 cogs from 11 to 28.

Also Dumoulin would be reasonably expected to ride a better TT than Richie Porte, which he didn't do. Pogacar would be reasonably expected to ride a better TT than Porte, which he did. Dumoulin didn't ride as good a TT as I think he or his team would have expected.

The steepness of the gradient up the climb would also exaggerated any weakness/fatigue etc and it's easy lose time quickly on a gradient like that.

I just enjoyed it for what it was. An epic stage in a fantastic tour that had us on the edge of our seats.

Just my tuppence.

eeeee

Cadence is a very personal thing, there is no such thing add an optimum cadence on a climb, only an optimum cadence for each individual person. Some are grinders, some are spinners, some neither.

I imagine Tom D had his cassette changed to reflect the climb? At that level in that team I'd be sure of it.

Definitely no where to hide on a climb that steep if you're fcuked.

Girly Gal

Roglic and Jumbo Visma probably expected Pogacar to tire enough going up the climb that they would at least hold the gap enough to stay in yellow or possibly even gain time. The fact that Pogacar also did the fastest climb stunned everyone.
I think Roglic was also psychologically affected by this as he knew on the climb the Jersey was slipping away from him and he just hadn't the power in his legs to respond, he possibly knew this before the climb started as even the bike change was poor and he looked fatigued.
A great way for Pogacar to win the tour, but, an awful way for Roglic to lose it, he'll probably regret not attacking more in the last week when he looked the strongest, but, seemed to be content with holding the gap, we'll never know.
I always felt looking at the final climb on the ITT there was the possibility of losing alot of time on it.

Inquitus

Girly Gal wrote: »

Roglic and Jumbo Visma probably expected Pogacar to tire enough going up the climb that they would at least hold the gap enough to stay in yellow or possibly even gain time. The fact that Pogacar also did the fastest climb stunned everyone.
I think Roglic was also psychologically affected by this as he knew on the climb the Jersey was slipping away from him and he just hadn't the power in his legs to respond, he possibly knew this before the climb started as even the bike change was poor and he looked fatigued.
A great way for Pogacar to win the tour, but, an awful way for Roglic to lose it, he'll probably regret not attacking more in the last week when he looked the strongest, but, seemed to be content with holding the gap, we'll never know, but, always felt looking at the final climb on the ITT there was the possibility of losing alot of time on it.

He was gifted 1min24secs in the Echelons as well, and slowly let it ebb away. IMHO JV played it too defensive.

Girly Gal

Inquitus wrote: »

He was gifted 1min24secs in the Echelons as well, and slowly let it ebb away. IMHO JV played it too defensive.

Agree he was gifted that time, but, that's part of racing and making the right decisions according to race conditions. Pogacar losing that time actually made this race better as it forced him to attack to gain the time, also probably resulted in Roglic and Jumbo Visma just defending the gap rather than attacking the race.

If Pogacar hadn't lost that time Roglic would have been forced to attack more which might have worked out better for him as he had the strongest team to help set him up. As it was they were content to hold the gap and were confident that Roglic would do enough in the ITT to hold onto yellow, they didn't count on Pogacar doing one of the best ITT ever.
Overall the best rider has won the race, he did it more or less single handedly against Jumbo Visma, he kinda used JV to his benefit.

Brian?

Inquitus wrote: »

He was gifted 1min24secs in the Echelons as well, and slowly let it ebb away. IMHO JV played it too defensive.

I 100% agree. There were days where Roglic looked like he was a training spin. If he’d attacked he would have put more time into Pogacar, it was way too defensive.

Girly Gal

It's good for the Tour that an individual triumphed over a strong team. Even though JV were in control for most of the race, it was still a much better and exciting race than most recent years, especially the Team Sky years where they were utterly dominant and stages followed a predictable pattern with little excitement.

Dodge

Girly Gal wrote: »

It's good for the Tour that an individual triumphed over a strong team. Even though JV were in control for most of the race, it was still a much better and exciting race than most recent years, especially the Team Sky years where they were utterly dominant and stages followed a predictable pattern with little excitement.

A lot of that was down to the route. The lack of mountain top finishes meant the likes of JVT couldnt just ride tempo and allow the GC riders to race for only the last 5k

It allowed lots of little sub plots and individual battles happen each day. Even the lack of pure sprints helped. The route just allowed so much to happen each day. My favourite tour in years and years

Girly Gal

Dodge wrote: »

A lot of that was down to the route. The lack of mountain top finishes meant the likes of JVT couldnt just ride tempo and allow the GC riders to race for only the last 5k

It allowed lots of little sub plots and individual battles happen each day. Even the lack of pure sprints helped. The route just allowed so much to happen each day. My favourite tour in years and years

Definitely one of the best in years, but, without Pogacar, Roglic would have free wheeled to victory. Last year's race was fairly good too, pity the last weekend was spoilt by the mud slides which really was anti climatic. Bennett ending Sagan's Green Jersey dominance also added to the race, Sunweb tactics for their stage wins also added excitement to the race. Overall it's definitely been the best Tour in years

Brian?

I feel like I was watching a different race to most people here. It was a poxy Tour up to yesterday. But I rarely find the Tour very exciting.