Administrative Officer 2020 in the Civil Service

tricky@

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'd suggest anyone who gets through the initial online exam- would have to fill out a detailed application- which would be used to further weed-out candidates, then supervised tests (however, how do you do supervised tests in a time of Covid?)...........

Just on this point; I was interviewed in the last batch of interviews for the AO 2019 competition in September and can confirm there was no supervised tests. Had to complete the detailed application form (which was just education and work history), then had the interview late September before doing the presentation exercise last week.

The_Conductor

PhoenixParker wrote: »

The business jargon annoys me more in the verbal and the numeric. I don't have a business degree, I'm not applying for a job in a business yet both of those are filled with business jargon about FY this and Executive board that.

There's no need to build in that bias to the tests.

In all fairness its far from unusual to encounter language like this on a daily basis as an AO or an EO regardless of what your qualifications are. You are pretty much guaranteed to have significant parcels of work that are totally unrelated to whatever your background is in.

On the brightside this is recognised, and there is good training offered (both through the IPA and external service providers) up to and including post grad qualifications.

At AO or EO there is an expectation that you are capable of soaking up knowledge and equipping yourself to deal with the job you find yourself in, the job is not tailored towards you, you have to tailor yourself to fit the situations you find yourself in.

PhoenixParker

The_Conductor wrote: »

In all fairness its far from unusual to encounter language like this on a daily basis as an AO or an EO regardless of what your qualifications are. You are pretty much guaranteed to have significant parcels of work that are totally unrelated to whatever your background is in.

On the brightside this is recognised, and there is good training offered (both through the IPA and external service providers) up to and including post grad qualifications.

At AO or EO there is an expectation that you are capable of soaking up knowledge and equipping yourself to deal with the job you find yourself in, the job is not tailored towards you, you have to tailor yourself to fit the situations you find yourself in.

It might not be unusual to encounter it as an EO or an AO, but you can learn and familiarize yourself on the job. You're not soaking up and learning knowledge during the tests.

These are tests where if you can read and comprehend quickly you'll do better. People with experience in business will read and comprehend faster, not by much, but there's 49 questions in 12 minutes, so seconds can make the difference between getting to question 30 and question 40.

The older style of verbal had a variety of short passages, you might get one or two where the jargon fit your experience but everyone had good passages and bad passages for that.

With one set of passages, solely focused on business, they're giving a leg up to business candidates. Maybe that's what they want to do, but I feel like they just bought tests tailored for Fortune 500 graduate recruitment campaigns and they should be aiming for a bit more diversity.

The_Conductor

PhoenixParker wrote: »

With one set of passages, solely focused on business, they're giving a leg up to business candidates. Maybe that's what they want to do, but I feel like they just bought tests tailored for Fortune 500 graduate recruitment campaigns and they should be aiming for a bit more diversity.

My background is in science and applied statistics- I didn't have any particular issue with them (though there was some guesswork involved in trying to figure which tab was applicable- but I'm guessing most people would be in that boat).

I speed read the tabs before I started on the questions- and only had to refer back to the tabs for around half the questions (and even then, I'd end up guessing many of the answers if I thought it was taking me too long to figure which was which).

Its a frame of mind more so than an attempt to tailor it towards those with finance/business qualifications. Its a speed test..........

belgowho

The_Conductor wrote: »

My background is in science and applied statistics- I didn't have any particular issue with them (though there was some guesswork involved in trying to figure which tab was applicable- but I'm guessing most people would be in that boat).

I speed read the tabs before I started on the questions- and only had to refer back to the tabs for around half the questions (and even then, I'd end up guessing many of the answers if I thought it was taking me too long to figure which was which).

Its a frame of mind more so than an attempt to tailor it towards those with finance/business qualifications. Its a speed test..........

How many verbal questions could you get through if you dont mind me asking? I think I got close to 35 and answered accurately enough

The_Conductor

belgowho wrote: »

How many verbal questions could you get through if you dont mind me asking? I think I got close to 35 and answered accurately enough

I got all of them- however, it timed out just as I picked the very last one (so I think it saved it, though I'm not sure).

head_theball

Does anyone know the approx time frame for getting the results back from the assessments? Judging by the website, they are holding stage 2 (interviews) in mid nov, so hoping it'll be soon enough?

belgowho

The_Conductor wrote: »

I got all of them- however, it timed out just as I picked the very last one (so I think it saved it, though I'm not sure).

Nice. Hoping my low answer count wont be my downfall.

The_Conductor

belgowho wrote: »

Nice. Hoping my low answer count wont be my downfall.

You were probably a lot more accurate than I was- so its a case of swings and roundabouts- we're probably both in a similar position.

doc22

Funny Evergreen never gets old

The_Conductor

doc22 wrote: »

Funny Evergreen never gets old

They have been using that company for a long time.........

exitstageleft

Fair play. I think I only got around 26 and I'm sure some of those were wrong. I was trying not to guess though since I thought there was negative marking. In retrospect, I would've probably been better to go with the speed-read and answer from memory / educated guess strategy.

Ernesto Guevara

head_theball wrote: »

Does anyone know the approx time frame for getting the results back from the assessments? Judging by the website, they are holding stage 2 (interviews) in mid nov, so hoping it'll be soon enough?

FWIW last year's test ended on the 14/10 and results were out 25/10.

Thrillhouse11

belgowho wrote: »

Nice. Hoping my low answer count wont be my downfall.

If you answered close to 35 I'd say you're well above the average anyway! I definitely focused more on accuracy than speed, which was probably a bad idea.

The_Conductor

Thrillhouse11 wrote: »

If you answered close to 35 I'd say you're well above the average anyway! I definitely focused more on accuracy than speed, which was probably a bad idea.

We don't know whether there is negative marking involved- so you could potentially be in a far better position than those of us who raced through the questions to get it done........ Time will tell. Either way- neither approach is ideal, nor a reflection of what would happen in the real world, so it is questionable what the whole point of the exercise actually is.

rostalof

The_Conductor wrote: »

Don't worry- it'll come up again- and there will also be a series of specialised AO panels in the near future (same as last year) for those with specific HR, Finance, IT and Language skills.

Also keep in mind (for future competitions) that a set proportion of the posts will be ringfenced for those willing to conduct business through Irish (as happened in the recent EO).

The online tests were frustrating in the extreme- not least of all because of the technical issues that they seem to have been plagued with. I did the tests just to see what they were like- I had to do the various bits in 3 different browsers- and I eventually managed to get that blasted 'chat'/e-mail workskills part working on a laptop with an old version of Internet Explorer on it. Its supposed to be an online test- not an opportunity to have candidates trawl through their old equipment to try and find something that its compatible with.

I'm guessing I flunked (and badly too)- despite how I did in the previous panels.

Do you reckon there'll be an AO ICT competition this year? I haven't seen one in a while. I thought there were finance and HR streams when this competition was advertised. Maybe I'm mixing it up with last year, it all becomes a blur after a while!

The_Conductor

rostalof wrote: »

Do you reckon there'll be an AO ICT competition this year? I haven't seen one in a while. I thought there were finance and HR streams when this competition was advertised. Maybe I'm mixing it up with last year, it all becomes a blur after a while!

There are a large no. of vacancies across the wide IT spectrum for EOs/AOs - they're never able to fill them. They are more interested in people with experience than greenhorns- but don't want to pay for the experience- so they're not competing with the opportunities in the private sector. A few Departments have run IT panels under license from PAS- to try and address this shortfall- with mixed results. Whatever about the other disciplines, it beggars belief that they won't run an EO ICT/JSA and an AO ICT panel in the near future.

rostalof

The_Conductor wrote: »

There are a large no. of vacancies across the wide IT spectrum for EOs/AOs - they're never able to fill them. They are more interested in people with experience than greenhorns- but don't want to pay for the experience- so they're not competing with the opportunities in the private sector. A few Departments have run IT panels under license from PAS- to try and address this shortfall- with mixed results. Whatever about the other disciplines, it beggars belief that they won't run an EO ICT/JSA and an AO ICT panel in the near future.

You're right about the vacancies and the inability to fill them. There's also an issue with retaining newly hired AO/HEO and indeed EO ICT staff. There were EO & HEO ICT competitions run by DAFM at the end of 2017 on behalf of themselves, DEASP and Revenue. Those successful were placed in the second half of 2018. Last year PAS ran both EO & HEO ICT competitions, that's how I returned to ICT. PAS are currently running both competitions again this year, applications closed on the 24th of September.

MaryRyan48

Anyone any idea when/if there might be another open revenue AO comp? I think the current audit and compliance results are just out so does that mean there won't be another for the revenue until that panel expires?

exitstageleft

Will someone tell PAS that I'm ready for the results now. I can take it.

The_Conductor

exitstageleft wrote: »

Will someone tell PAS that I'm ready for the results now. I can take it.

Haha.
They'll turn up- probably on a Friday evening at around 4.45pm........

MaryRyan48

I feel like today could be the day......!!!

head_theball

MaryRyan48 wrote: »

I feel like today could be the day......!!!

I hope so! I need to know if I should start interview prepping - I assume that's what the next stage is?

Galantis

head_theball wrote: »

I hope so! I need to know if I should start interview prepping - I assume that's what the next stage is?

You must be joking. We are along way off the interview stage yet. Sure we havent even submitted forms yet

Yer_Wan_1202

Galantis wrote: »

You must be joking. We are along way off the interview stage yet. Sure we havent even submitted forms yet

We're not that far off the interview stage... The information booklet says interviews will be mid Nov, here are the key dates from page 2:
Stage 1 - Online tests Late October
Stage 2 - Online Video Interviews Mid November
Stage 3 - Assessment Centre Early December

That doesn't really give much time to submit our forms though. This is the only info I found in the booklet on the forms, from page 5:
Candidates that reach the qualifying standard at online testing and come under consideration for subsequent stages of the selection process will be required to submit an application form outlining their educational and work history.

MaryRyan48

Yer_Wan_1202 wrote: »

We're not that far off the interview stage... The information booklet says interviews will be mid Nov, here are the key dates from page 2:
Stage 1 - Online tests Late October
Stage 2 - Online Video Interviews Mid November
Stage 3 - Assessment Centre Early December

That doesn't really give much time to submit our forms though. This is the only info I found in the booklet on the forms, from page 5:
Candidates that reach the qualifying standard at online testing and come under consideration for subsequent stages of the selection process will be required to submit an application form outlining their educational and work history.

And from reading last year's posts it is literally just that, education and work experience. There are no competencies given and you have to give your examples....like the regular application forms. They seem to just assess the competencies at interview

FenFlynn

Result out for Third secretary, I passed, what a relief

Aleece2020

I assume we'll be getting results for this soon as TS/DSO came out. Interesting to see my OOM for general entry AO vs. the TS/DSO.

FenFlynn

Hopefully, but I'd imagine more applied as AO than TS. It would take longer to sort out the OOM. I'd say tomorrow or next week.

The_Conductor

FenFlynn wrote: »

Hopefully, but I'd imagine more applied as AO than TS. It would take longer to sort out the OOM. I'd say tomorrow or next week.

OOM is actually quite easy- dump the whole lot into Excel, do a data sort, decide how many are being brought through- and split the lists into separate exam streams- and then do a series of 'Count-Ifs' True/False statements. Couple of hours work for someone- its not rocket science.