Natwest considering closing Ulster Bank in the ROI

phormium

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the issue with a so called "vulture fund" if you intend to service your debt?

Your loan exists a bit more in suspended animation in a vulture fund than in a fully functional bank, yes terms will remain same but facilities would be diminished like for example any extra borrowing such as top up for extension/new kitchen/whatever. I'd prefer to be with a 'proper' bank too.

BrianD3

All I have with UB is my current account - no big deal to switch I hope.

My main worry is my elderly mother who also has a UB current account, plenty of money and a decent pension. As a result of poor mobility, cognitive impairment and very poor hearing, she won't be able to setup a new account in a different bank over the phone or in branch. So unless she can do it online (with my help) I'm not sure what we will do. She setup direct debits for most bills years ago when she was in better health, not anticipating that an institution like UB would leave the market.

Geuze

Zainab Strong Backstroke wrote: »

As I said I'm very worried about any risks. I just don't like the idea of it. I have no knowledge of this area at all, but it would be a source of worry for me to be engaged in any sort of contract with any sort of non standard financial institution. I have no concerns about servicing the debt at all.

I had a NIB/Danske mortgage.

It was sold to Goldman Sachs. It was serviced by Pepper.

There was no substantial change, other than issues like a different type of statement being issued, and no online access to see the account.

Now I have a UB mortgage!!!

My mortgage may be sold to non-banks twice in five years.

AlmightyCushion

BrianD3 wrote: »

All I have with UB is my current account - no big deal to switch I hope.

My main worry is my elderly mother who also has a UB current account, plenty of money and a decent pension. As a result of poor mobility, cognitive impairment and very poor hearing, she won't be able to setup a new account in a different bank over the phone or in branch. So unless she can do it online (with my help) I'm not sure what we will do. She setup direct debits for most bills years ago when she was in better health, not anticipating that an institution like UB would leave the market.

With KBC you can set up an account using their app. She would need an Android phone or iPhone (I'm not sure if the app works on tablets but I think it does). You use the camera to take pictures of the documents to upload. She might still need your help to set it up but hopefully it's a bit easier.

JTMan

Looks like the PTSB deal to buy "certain retail assets" might include current accounts and deposit accounts after-all.

Seems like madness to me.

PTSB will be stuck in years of very costly IT system conversions, PTSB will get deposits that they don't need that will have negative rates applied and will have a legacy branch network to deal with too if that is included.

Also, really do not think the state should be getting even deeper into retail banking.

Hellrazer

Hellrazer wrote: »

So is the advice to anyone with a tracker still to hold off doing anything until we are contacted?

100%

Your current terms and conditions will be maintained if your loan transfers to another provider.

BrianD3 wrote: »

All I have with UB is my current account - no big deal to switch I hope.

My main worry is my elderly mother who also has a UB current account, plenty of money and a decent pension. As a result of poor mobility, cognitive impairment and very poor hearing, she won't be able to setup a new account in a different bank over the phone or in branch. So unless she can do it online (with my help) I'm not sure what we will do. She setup direct debits for most bills years ago when she was in better health, not anticipating that an institution like UB would leave the market.

How far is the cognitive impairment? If she’s still in possession of her mental faculties I would suggest you/her consider/speak about power of attorney arrangements - your solicitor will have an information pack or look online - it’s essential that people whom the elderly trust are able to look after their affairs once they can no longer do so
In the short-term she/you can speak to her bank (new bank) around making arrangements for working the account on her behalf - do it now- if dementia or similar is present it will be much harder for you to do any of this yourself

silver2020

Zainab Strong Backstroke wrote: »

I have AIP with UB but I think I will just start again with someone else. I don't see the point in getting into a potentially complicated situation from the start. I had actually raised this exact concern with my broker in summer 2019 (have had a purchase fall through very late in the process due to Covid so back to square one again now) due to Brexit, but he scoffed at the idea because they have been here so long and apparently "not going anywhere after 150 years". I'm very risk averse so the thoughts of ending up sold off to a vulture fund is just too much for me to take on.

No issue and people need to stop readingbullsh1t in scaremongering media about vulture funds.

UB have very clearly stated that the mortgage book will be sold to a retail bank and all the indications are that it will be ptsb.

UB have very good fixed rates, lock it in and stop stressing and avoid reading click bait stories in the indo or the mail.

silver2020

BrianD3 wrote: »

All I have with UB is my current account - no big deal to switch I hope.

My main worry is my elderly mother who also has a UB current account, plenty of money and a decent pension. As a result of poor mobility, cognitive impairment and very poor hearing, she won't be able to setup a new account in a different bank over the phone or in branch. So unless she can do it online (with my help) I'm not sure what we will do. She setup direct debits for most bills years ago when she was in better health, not anticipating that an institution like UB would leave the market.

The bank does everything. You sign one form, give the ID and everything is transferred over automatically. https://www.switchyourbank.ie/how-to-switch/ (official gov site)

I did it when switching from Danske to UB and will do it again later this year from UB to whoever I choose

But there is no rush, they said it will be 2022 before they look at closing branches.

jimmycrackcorm

JAMCAR wrote:

Does anyone know what will happen to the credit card accounts.

Probably the same as what happened with my Danske credit card when they pulled out. They gave an option to pay off the balance within a fixed time frame.

Due to problems I had with switching current accounts, I missed the first month and then they demanded I clear they while balance at once. I was fortunate that I had a long term investments policy that I was able to withdraw and use for that.

dzilla

i wish the media would stop scaremongering on this, they keep implying (or so i gather from the articles i have read , a mix of click bait and broadsheets) that the entire mortgage book will be sold to a vulture fund. I am no expert on banking but this will probably pan out in any of the following ways -

- Through govt intervention there is a merge with PTSB and maybe a smaller bank to form a 3rd Irish pillar bank to keep the interest rates competitive as Ulster have been doing in the past 2 years. However the govt may not have the stomach for this crisis along and Pascal said on newstalk this morning they cannot force this even if they are stakeholders. However i believe the govt have to be seen to be taking action here.

- A retail bank buys teh commercial loans / personal loans / mortgages from Ulster. This is a financial carcass that the other institutes will peck at and get what they want from it. I image the govt could make it worthwhile for boi/aib to be accommodating as its in their interest for 14% of Irish mortgage holders are with ulster are also voters.

- Natwest keeps a mortgage presence here managed from Belfast or the UK, unlikely though.

- The mortgage book is sold to a non retail institution like Goldman Sachs, and service by a company like Pepper. The least desirable outcome for people as I think people like to feel their mortgage is local and that they can go to the branch if they need any support. People think that these are vulture funds because of the media spin that is being put on it, but if you can service your debt you are ok. Once the fixed term is up, you can begin to move which is not an uncommon thing anymore.

There may be other outcomes but I think that the way the media are carrying this story they are making out that 14% of Irish performing mortgages will end up in a vulture fund, and frankly it is scaring people, there is no need for panic at the moment I believe.

Personally I would like to see the 3rd pillar bank being pursued if it was feasible with a view on it having a very low branch network as ulster was ultimately doing and a huge online presence.

Hibernicis

dzilla wrote: »

i wish the media would stop scaremongering on this, they keep implying (or so i gather from the articles i have read , a mix of click bait and broadsheets) that the entire mortgage book will be sold to a vulture fund.

Post of the day. Couldn't agree more with this. Was really annoyed with the picture in one of the rag tops of a queue of 5 or 6 people standing at a UB ATM, under some BANK CLOSING DOWN type all caps headline attempting to convey the shock horror message to rush and get all your money now before the bank collapses.

JPup

JTMan wrote: »

Looks like the PTSB deal to buy "certain retail assets" might include current accounts and deposit accounts after-all.

Seems like madness to me.

PTSB will be stuck in years of very costly IT system conversions, PTSB will get deposits that they don't need that will have negative rates applied and will have a legacy branch network to deal with too if that is included.

Also, really do not think the state should be getting even deeper into retail banking.

My understanding is that PTSB is the one bank in Ireland that wouldn't mind taking on additional deposits at the moment. And since they are not buying the Ulster Bank as a going concern, I don't see any IT system conversion issues. The deposits would simply transfer over to them one morning as I understand it (open to correction there!).

Bubbaclaus

The phrase "vulture fund" has really drummed up the fear mongering over the years for those types of entities. Can blame media and politicians for that one.

Hibernicis

JPup wrote: »

And since they are not buying the Ulster Bank as a going concern, I don't see any IT system conversion issues. The deposits would simply transfer over to them one morning as I understand it (open to correction there!).

PTSB have taken on portfolios of deposit accounts previously and that is the way they handled it (e.g. Northern Rock's residual deposit accounts). PTSB took over the portfolio, set up new deposit account types on their system to match the Northern Rock products and migrated the balances. These account types were treated as legacy products, and PTSB used their tried and tested inertia strategy to minimise the cost. The same could be done for Current accounts. It is totally different order of magnitude to taking on a portfolio of mortgages. And doesn't involve taking on assets, staff, systems, branches etc. It will "cost" the state in terms of an injection of capital, but that's the price that needs to be paid if the long talked about and almost mythical third banking force is to be established.

jimmycrackcorm

dzilla wrote:

There may be other outcomes but I think that the way the media are carrying this story they are making out that 14% of Irish performing mortgages will end up in a vulture fund, and frankly it is scaring people, there is no need for panic at the moment I believe.

My Danske mortgage went to pepper. I remember my wife yelling me her father was horrified that the mortgage was then with a vulture fund. Couldn't accept that it made SFA difference to us. Just kept paying the mortgage as normal.

I've since remortgaged with Ulster, on a fixed rate and after that it'll probably mean I'll have to change when I was hoping to go into another fixed rate. The nice thing about UB mortgages is that it's easy to make regular overpayments.

Still, it's a little disconcerting that this is the second time in recent years that a bank will be pulling the rug from under my mortgage feet.

Jim2007

McGaggs wrote: »

They've a few more hoops to jump through than if they were using a system that was built with that type of analytics in the spec. We're talking about Ulster Bank who have had massive IT outages, or BoI who can't even tell their current account customers what their balance is. The other banks can probably handle the data easily, but I'd wonder about those two.

If they had such an advantage and it was truly such an advantage why are they performing no better than the rest of the sector???

Fintech is probably the biggest sham since the .com blow out. It’s still the same basic services being peddled by a different generation producing the same outcome as everyone. Which really should not surprise anyone since that is how commodity industries behave.

There has not been a truly innovative idea that generated serious profits in the banking industry since David Solo at SBC came up with securitization and even the kernel of that idea already existed, he just took it to the next level.

kerryjack

First I was with First active than Ulster bank next who knows, Have mortgage and Current account linked together so interesting to see what's going to happen with that.

Jim2007

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

The phrase "vulture fund" has really drummed up the fear mongering over the years for those types of entities. Can blame media and politicians for that one.

News media sell better when you have bail outs, rather than government recapitalization, vulture funds rather than investment funds and bakers rather than employees....

phormium

kerryjack wrote: »

First I was with First active than Ulster bank next who knows, Have mortgage and Current account linked together so interesting to see what's going to happen with that.

Me too, be interesting to see what pans out with the offset/current ac mortgages! Won't be doing a thing until they contact me anyway.

kerryjack

Don't know what big deal is, don't know when last time I actually stood in a bank. Same as church, thing of the past.

JTMan

JPup wrote: »

My understanding is that PTSB is the one bank in Ireland that wouldn't mind taking on additional deposits at the moment. And since they are not buying the Ulster Bank as a going concern, I don't see any IT system conversion issues. The deposits would simply transfer over to them one morning as I understand it (open to correction there!).

The PTSB loan to deposit ratio is below 87%. They do not need more deposits. Excess deposits get charged 0.50% for being parked at the ECB.

No IT system conversion cost? HA!

There will be MASSIVE IT costs and massive transition costs. You have to migrate 1.1 million accounts including millions of SOs, DDs, issue 1.1 million new usernames and passwords, inevitably add certain features on the PTSB side and transition payment systems across. It will be a total nightmare than will take PTSB years if they are stupid enough to go for this.

Comparing to Northern Rock is comparing apples with oranges. Northern Rock did not offer current accounts nor a complex service offering in Ireland.

CrabRevolution

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

My Danske mortgage went to pepper. I remember my wife yelling me her father was horrified that the mortgage was then with a vulture fund. Couldn't accept that it made SFA difference to us. Just kept paying the mortgage as normal.

I've since remortgaged with Ulster, on a fixed rate and after that it'll probably mean I'll have to change when I was hoping to go into another fixed rate. The nice thing about UB mortgages is that it's easy to make regular overpayments.

Still, it's a little disconcerting that this is the second time in recent years that a bank will be pulling the rug from under my mortgage feet.

It's certainly been a success story for certain politicians and media that they've convinced masses of people that "vulture funds" only exist to buy mortgages and immediately repossess the houses of the borrowers even if they are fully paid up and complying with the terms of the mortgage.

Yyhhuuu

Jim2007 wrote: »

Expecting staff to comment on an unannounced issue is just not going to happen. They will have been told to terminate such calls at this stage.


I'm closing this thread for the moment until we see what happens. Do not open another thread on this issue.

Staff at Ulster Bank were not told to terminate any call regarding their withdrawl according to a senior manager at the Group which I subsquently spoke to.

Any such enquiry before today should be responded to by a courteous response indicating that no withdrawl from the ROI market has been confirmed.

Not by simply hanging up the phone which is ridiculous as it's very discourteous

Ulster bank telephone staff have a history of hanging up the phone for no valid reason. This has been my experience in the past. This has never happened to me with bank of Ireland.

Timing belt

JTMan wrote: »

The PTSB loan to deposit ratio is below 87%. They do not need more deposits. Excess deposits get charged 0.50% for being parked at the ECB.

No IT system conversion cost? HA!

There will be MASSIVE IT costs and massive transition costs. You have to migrate 1.1 million accounts including millions of SOs, DDs, issue 1.1 million new usernames and passwords, inevitably add certain features on the PTSB side and transition payment systems across. It will be a total nightmare than will take PTSB years if they are stupid enough to go for this.

Comparing to Northern Rock is comparing apples with oranges. Northern Rock did not offer current accounts nor a complex service offering in Ireland.

They can use industry switching to migrate customers it’s not like they need to keep historical transactions or keep account no’s.

The only reason that Ptsb would need deposits is would be to fund the new mortgage that would migrate. It is all speculation at the moment anyway as PTSB could not buy mortgage books unless they have a massive capital injection and I don’t think politically any government will take that step.

garrettod

Jim2007 wrote: »

... My crystal ball says in five years time the bulk of UB will still be there, there will be some changes of course, but for most customers not much of note.

The time lines were very obvious to anyone with relevant experience of how these things work....long before today's announcement.

You weren't the person to try and tell us that this would be done and dusted in a year, Jim (that was another even more vocal, and confident, member )... but you did emphasis that you were speaking with experience, in a post a few days ago, and then surprised me with your reading of the situation (other than to close, by correctly referencing that the final wrap up could drag on ten years).

I see you refer to your experience regularly on the various discussion threads, mind me asking, what is your past experience, and is it actually related to orderly Bank wind downs in Ireland, for example ?

garrettod

Hellrazer wrote: »

So is the advice to anyone with a tracker still to hold off doing anything until we are contacted?

100% correct.

Anyone with a tracker rate mortgage, should cling onto it, with their dying breath.

It's a contractual arrangement for the life of the loan, that confers a benefit to the borrower, that will never be seen again.

Even when UB ultimately sell on their tracker rate loan book, the new owners will have to continue to honour the contractual rates, so there's still nothing to force you to surrender it.

The J Stands for Jay

Jim2007 wrote: »

If they had such an advantage and it was truly such an advantage why are they performing no better than the rest of the sector???

We're discussing fintech companies using their data to see if a customer is a good credit risk. They aren't in the mortgage sector, which probably explains why they aren't outperforming as week as the sector.

Geuze

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

My Danske mortgage went to pepper. I remember my wife yelling me her father was horrified that the mortgage was then with a vulture fund. Couldn't accept that it made SFA difference to us. Just kept paying the mortgage as normal.

I've since remortgaged with Ulster, on a fixed rate and after that it'll probably mean I'll have to change when I was hoping to go into another fixed rate. The nice thing about UB mortgages is that it's easy to make regular overpayments.

Still, it's a little disconcerting that this is the second time in recent years that a bank will be pulling the rug from under my mortgage feet.

Jimmy,

we have taken that path together.

I had a NIB/Danske LTV mortgage.

Sold to Goldman Sachs, managed by Pepper.

Could you call Goldman Sachs a vulture fund?

Now I have a UB mortgage, on a fixed rate.

It's also the second time for me, also.

JTMan

Fixed mortgage holders might be able to exit their fixed term penalty free.

the Irish Independent understands from senior sources that the Central Bank believes levying fees and charges on customers is not appropriate because it is the bank which wants out of the relationship with borrowers.

Homeowners who opt to leave a fixed-term Ulster Bank mortgage to go to a new lender are potentially liable for thousands of euros in fees – which can be equal to six months’ interest.

Ulster Bank chief executive Jane Howard refused to answer questions on break fees when asked by this publication. When pressed, she said any request for fees to be dropped would be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

No harm in fixed rate Ulster Bank mortgage holders putting in a request to ask what their break fees would be given that Ulster Bank are exiting their relationship. If the fees are zero, then they can switch to a lower cost mortgage such as Avant.

Irish_peppa

Has anyone else been receiving the following text from ulster bank recently over last week?

"We have some IMPORTANT NEW information which may benefit you. Please call Ulster Bank on 1800 303680 as soon as you receive this text. Quote ref DLBRK"

I rang the number and an very posh english sounding guy before i even said hi said "Can i get your mortgage account number before we begin?" I promptly hung up sounded a bit unusual. never was contact like that by Ulster before with a text to call them There is no number its from Just the word "Ulsterbank" so not possible to view an originating number.