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Natwest considering closing Ulster Bank in the ROI

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    #452
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,854 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    My crystal ball says in five years time the bulk of UB will still be there, there will be some changes of course, but for most customers not much of note.


    I suspect they'll be in a hurry to shut down the branches and lay off the majority of staff, that's where one of the main costs is


    The truth is that online only banks like Revolut and N26 have completely changed the game, there's not much market share left for brick and mortar banks like UB

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #453
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,537 ✭✭✭JTMan


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    My crystal ball says in five years time the bulk of UB will still be there, there will be some changes of course, but for most customers not much of note.

    My crystal ball says it will be a lot quicker than 5 years for most aspects.

    The sale of the business loans to AIB and "certain retail assets" (probably most mortgages) to PTSB seems to be at an advanced stage. Both could happen this year.

    Ulster Bank did say they would write to certain customers about changes in the "coming weeks and months". Surely this relates to current account and savings account holders. This is surely the first straw to give as these items are unsellable. Zero interest rating these accounts, stopping new signups and giving customers 6 months notice to move is a no brainer next step in the coming weeks.


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    #454
    Darando
    Registered Users Posts: 713 ✭✭✭Darando


    PTSB are terrible for their mortgage rates for both new and existing. Lads in AIB/BOI must be laughing as that’ll be the end of any pressure from outside for rate cuts. Cigars in the boardroom celebrating seeing off those foreign banks...

    At least UB had competitive rates and things like 10% overpayments for fixed rates, simple switching bands etc...

    Wasn’t long ago KBC were also reviewing their position here. It’s a systemic Irish regulatory problem of how government applies policies of banking and repossessions...as also we are a basket case.

    Only recently could you do thinks like freeze card online like N26/Revolution.dragged into Android/Apple Pay .. why would Irish banks innovate when no competition...


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    #455
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    Will current account holders have to switch themselves or will UB be moving their accounts elsewhere?


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    #456
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,537 ✭✭✭JTMan


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    Will current account holders have to switch themselves or will UB be moving their accounts elsewhere?

    Not confirmed yet.

    Speculation that the deposits will not be wanted by any other bank. If that is the case, customers will need to move their deposits / current accounts themselves.


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    #457
    JAMCAR
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭JAMCAR


    Does anyone know what will happen to the credit card accounts.


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    #458
    Tazz T
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    This has to be the beginning of the end for traditional banking in Ireland. I wonder how many of these customers have been putting off moving their current account to N26/Revolut just because it was attached their mortgage account. The fintechs will have a field day with this. Only a matter of time until one of them comes up with a mortgage offering and that'll be the nail in the coffin for the old boys.


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    #459
    dzilla
    Registered Users Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭dzilla


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    Will current account holders have to switch themselves or will UB be moving their accounts elsewhere?

    You are free to move your current account and ititiate that youself, when halifax left the market they where sending letters months in advance advising you to open an account elsewhere and they had open days in branch where they had ulster facilitating new account openings that's how i ended up with ulster all them years ago.


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    #460
    dzilla
    Registered Users Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭dzilla


    Tazz T wrote: »
    This has to be the beginning of the end for traditional banking in Ireland. I wonder how many of these customers have been putting off moving their current account to N26/Revolut just because it was attached their mortgage account. The fintechs will have a field day with this. Only a matter of time until one of them comes up with a mortgage offering and that'll be the nail in the coffin for the old boys.

    Yeah funnily enough i use revolut and monese the whole time now, i have a current account at ulster but only cos my mortgage sits their. its just a place for my wages to land and the mortgages to have its standing order.


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    #461
    Banana Republic 1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    OwlsZat wrote: »
    We're in the same situation. :pac:

    Best thing to do is consult with the bank and or broker.


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    #462
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I remember hearing a few years ago that Dublin be big Financial Hub in EU after Brexit and London banks re-locate here.
    Someone surely got it wrong?

    Also what's so different that Banking so different in NI?? I assume this is to do with British Government owning shares.


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    #463
    dzilla
    Registered Users Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭dzilla


    maestroamado wrote: »
    I remember hearing a few years ago that Dublin be big Financial Hub in EU after Brexit and London banks re-locate here.
    Someone surely got it wrong?

    Also what's so different that Banking so different in NI?? I assume this is to do with British Government owning shares.

    Financial hub wise I think they meant commercial banking not retail banking.


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    #464
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    silver2020 wrote: »
    Hopefully that will balance the scaremongering in certain media. I bet some journalist and "experts" who were calling Armageddon just yesterday will be embarrassed that they got it so wrong

    Remember UB are profitable, but not profitable enough. EG, if you invested €100,000 in a business and only were getting €2,000 return and no hope of any improvement in the next 10+ years, you'd wind it down, but there'd be no pressure on a fire sale or quick exit as its not losing money.


    Were any doing this?
    Any coverage I saw was pretty uniformly "It will take years, your savings and mortgage are safe, it's making a profit but not enough, branches will close, it's bad news for all stakeholders in Irish banking etc."


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    #465
    Darando
    Registered Users Posts: 713 ✭✭✭Darando


    maestroamado wrote: »
    I remember hearing a few years ago that Dublin be big Financial Hub in EU after Brexit and London banks re-locate here.
    Someone surely got it wrong?

    Also what's so different that Banking so different in NI?? I assume this is to do with British Government owning shares.

    Being here for tax reasons is totally different than being here and providing a service to the general population. Plenty of banks down beside IFSC that you will never hear of.


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    #466
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Tazz T wrote: »
    This has to be the beginning of the end for traditional banking in Ireland. I wonder how many of these customers have been putting off moving their current account to N26/Revolut just because it was attached their mortgage account. The fintechs will have a field day with this. Only a matter of time until one of them comes up with a mortgage offering and that'll be the nail in the coffin for the old boys.

    Can't see the fintechs going anywhere near mortgage lending for the forseeable future. Just doesn't fit with their operating model.


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    #467
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,854 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Amirani wrote: »
    Can't see the fintechs going anywhere near mortgage lending for the forseeable future. Just doesn't fit with their operating model.


    Avant Money are doing mortgages now and they're basically a fintech. They basically act as a broker for BankInter I think


    The other fintechs will do the same. They have an advantage that they can use spending analytics on their customers to identify customers who will be more able to meet repayments and therefore can offer them a lower intererst rate

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #468
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,001 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    cruisey1987 wrote: »
    The other fintechs will do the same. They have an advantage that they can use spending analytics on their customers to identify customers who will be more able to meet repayments and therefore can offer them a lower intererst rate

    We were doing that at least 20 years ago to identify potential customers to target with certain products, evaluate credit worthiness etc...

    The fintechs are not doing very much new, which is why they are reporting the same kind of outcomes as everyone else - losses.


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    #469
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    cruisey1987 wrote: »
    Avant Money are doing mortgages now and they're basically a fintech. They basically act as a broker for BankInter I think

    The other fintechs will do the same. They have an advantage that they can use spending analytics on their customers to identify customers who will be more able to meet repayments and therefore can offer them a lower intererst rate
    How is that any different to conventional banks? They can analyse their customers spending too.


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    #470
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,651 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    How is that any different to conventional banks? They can analyse their customers spending too.

    Bit harder to run a query on legacy software


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    #471
    gomamochi1
    Registered Users Posts: 542 ✭✭✭gomamochi1


    we have mortgage and current acc with ub. It is a 7 year fixed from last year with mortgage so penality incurree if we move. Is there grounds to move to avant money as we have low loan to value ie 35% and their rates are tremendous ie 1.85 for ltv less than 40%. Could we argue the case with UB that they are leaving the market so thus we can break our contract of 7 year fixed and move to irish based lending agent? Thanks


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    #472
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,001 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    McGaggs wrote: »
    Bit harder to run a query on legacy software


    In the real world, banks have actual got the data available to them in environments that allows them then to do so.


    This idea that somehow there are really dumb people running traditional business who have not got a clew about the new methods and techniques is nonsense.


    I'm invested in a couple of fintech start-ups, work a few days every month as a 'volunteer' employee for another owned by my daughter. And the biggest new thing: The people doing it have no expose to the sector so they think they have a great idea... only to discover that it has already been done before.


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    #473
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,001 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    gomamochi1 wrote: »
    we have mortgage and current acc with ub. It is a 7 year fixed from last year with mortgage so penality incurree if we move. Is there grounds to move to avant money as we have low loan to value ie 35% and their rates are tremendous ie 1.85 for ltv less than 40%.


    The T&C for your current arramgent is not going to change even if the mortgage is sold on. So, do the math and see what your are offered by Avant... Make you decision based on the cold facts.


    gomamochi1 wrote: »
    Could we argue the case with UB that they are leaving the market so thus we can break our contract of 7 year fixed and move to irish based lending agent?


    Of course you can argue, but it is not sufficient grounds to simple break your contract with not consequences. And since UB are leaving the market, they don't really have any reason to be accommodating: they don't need your custom anymore.


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    #474
    Marty Bird
    Registered Users Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    gomamochi1 wrote: »
    we have mortgage and current acc with ub. It is a 7 year fixed from last year with mortgage so penality incurree if we move. Is there grounds to move to avant money as we have low loan to value ie 35% and their rates are tremendous ie 1.85 for ltv less than 40%. Could we argue the case with UB that they are leaving the market so thus we can break our contract of 7 year fixed and move to irish based lending agent? Thanks

    Can’t see that 1.85% LTV rate ?


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    #475
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    So is the advice to anyone with a tracker still to hold off doing anything until we are contacted?


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    #476
    Darando
    Registered Users Posts: 713 ✭✭✭Darando


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    So is the advice to anyone with a tracker still to hold off doing anything until we are contacted?

    With a tracker I'd be doing absolutely nothing!(*assuming it's one of the great tracker deals meaning a really low rate at present) Contract is a contract so UB will just sell it on and you'll only notice a different headed paper once they sell it.

    Only potential issue I can see is if you got into difficulties paying your mortgage then whoever owns it then may have different outlook on how they manage a debt.


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    #477
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,581 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Darando wrote: »
    With a tracker I'd be doing absolutely nothing!(*assuming it's one of the great tracker deals meaning a really low rate at present) Contract is a contract so UB will just sell it on and you'll only notice a different headed paper once they sell it.

    Only difference I can see is if you got into difficulties paying your mortgage then whoever owns it then may have different outlook on how they manage a debt.

    Thanks for that. Ill do nothing so.


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    #478
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,651 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    In the real world, banks have actual got the data available to them in environments that allows them then to do so.

    They've a few more hoops to jump through than if they were using a system that was built with that type of analytics in the spec. We're talking about Ulster Bank who have had massive IT outages, or BoI who can't even tell their current account customers what their balance is. The other banks can probably handle the data easily, but I'd wonder about those two.


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    #479
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    I have AIP with UB but I think I will just start again with someone else. I don't see the point in getting into a potentially complicated situation from the start. I had actually raised this exact concern with my broker in summer 2019 (have had a purchase fall through very late in the process due to Covid so back to square one again now) due to Brexit, but he scoffed at the idea because they have been here so long and apparently "not going anywhere after 150 years". I'm very risk averse so the thoughts of ending up sold off to a vulture fund is just too much for me to take on.


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    #480
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 596 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Zainab Strong Backstroke wrote: »
    I have AIP with UB but I think I will just start again with someone else. I don't see the point in getting into a potentially complicated situation from the start. I had actually raised this exact concern with my broker in summer 2019 (have had a purchase fall through very late in the process due to Covid so back to square one again now) due to Brexit, but he scoffed at the idea because they have been here so long and apparently "not going anywhere after 150 years". I'm very risk averse so the thoughts of ending up sold off to a vulture fund is just too much for me to take on.

    What's the issue with a so called "vulture fund" if you intend to service your debt?


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    #481
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What's the issue with a so called "vulture fund" if you intend to service your debt?

    As I said I'm very worried about any risks. I just don't like the idea of it. I have no knowledge of this area at all, but it would be a source of worry for me to be engaged in any sort of contract with any sort of non standard financial institution. I have no concerns about servicing the debt at all.


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