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Natwest considering closing Ulster Bank in the ROI

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    #422
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    Just been discussed at speakers questions. Veradkar said the government cannot intervene

    I have to say prefer Ulster Bank and very disappointed if there is in the decision to close branches and business in Ireland.
    I go into mine branch at least 2times a month and would not mind paying fees to hold the account. Still lodging cash into the account and still need that facility. Staff are really nice and helpful. The service is good for me.


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    #423
    grayzer75
    Registered Users Posts: 973 ✭✭✭grayzer75


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    So is a tracker safe?
    Im with them 13 years and have ECB +0.7%

    Theres no way Im loosing that.

    We're with UB in the north for our mortgage - 17 years on tracker at BOE base rate +0.25%. We been asked numerous time to move (with incentives) but a friend in the bank said never ever move off a tracker - she hasn't been wrong yet.


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    #424
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,110 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    tvjunki wrote: »
    Just been discussed at speakers questions. Veradkar said the government cannot intervene

    I have to say prefer Ulster Bank and very disappointed if there is in the decision to close branches and business in Ireland.
    I go into mine branch at least 2times a month and would not mind paying fees to hold the account. Still lodging cash into the account and still need that facility. Staff are really nice and helpful. The service is good for me.

    You would wonder if there was a market for a bank that had tellers and proper human service.

    I'd certainly pay more for it.

    I know older folk who are baffled by having to use the machines themselves to make lodgements or payments electronically. Not everyone has someone to do it for them


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    #425
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,553 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Banana Republic 1 wrote: »
    Anything that allows the "pillar banks" to gain more control is a big fat lose for the public

    Bad news all round. Less competition, less choice, less investment. Bad day for the staff. Bad day for consumers. Bad day for the Irish economy.


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    #426
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    Akesh wrote: »
    They won't as the whole point of this is that they want to return capital to their investors. A large portion of NatWest's surplus capital is with Ulster Bank.

    Maybe it's time to look at the regulation of the banking sector here and repossessions as it's very difficult to see any competition in the sector. At the end of the day the Regulators job is protect banking customers and that is clearly failing. If banks are expected to meet strict conditions to trade in RoI then consumers should be held to strict conditions to pay instead of waiting 5 years+ to evict. As usual, insane levels of altruism, despite being well intentioned, is no way to actively regulate a sector.

    The exit of Ulster Bank is a disaster for Ireland.

    We need competition and we will loose this if another bank leaves the market. Been with Ulsterbank 20odd years and stayed with them because of the service.


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    #427
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    everlast75 wrote: »
    You would wonder if there was a market for a bank that had tellers and proper human service.

    I'd certainly pay more for it.

    I know older folk who are baffled by having to use the machines themselves to make lodgements or payments electronically. Not everyone has someone to do it for them


    Being able to walk in and speak face to face with an employee of a bank is brilliant. Many automated systems fail when you do not fit into a box.


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    #428
    votecounts
    Registered Users Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭votecounts


    Know a few lds who've been with UB since they graduated, feel for them as they fear the worst. Will be an awful lot of people competing for similar roles in other banks. Sad day


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    #429
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,253 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    tvjunki wrote: »
    Being able to walk in and speak face to face with an employee of a bank is brilliant. Many automated systems fail when you do not fit into a box.

    The reality is you are an outlier - and that costs money to provide.

    Most people don't use branches or tellers, I'm not defending this by the way its just the way the industry has gone.

    Back to Ulster Bank, staff have been told today a decision has not yet been made....

    Ulster Bank CEO tells staff ‘no decision has been taken’ (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/ulster-bank-ceo-tells-staff-no-decision-has-been-taken-1.4488546


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    #430
    Timing belt
    Registered Users Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Timing belt


    votecounts wrote: »
    Know a few lds who've been with UB since they graduated, feel for them as they fear the worst. Will be an awful lot of people competing for similar roles in other banks. Sad day

    With all banks cutting costs there won’t be that many opportunities in other banks


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    #431
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,253 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    We're with UB in the north for our mortgage - 17 years on tracker at BOE base rate +0.25%. We been asked numerous time to move (with incentives) but a friend in the bank said never ever move off a tracker - she hasn't been wrong yet.

    Indeed never give up the tracker and regardless of if UB leave or not, you have a signed contract and that can't be terminated without your consent.

    As for those wanting to pay more to have a branch network and staff you use a few times a month. The fee to keep that infastructure for those who want it would be astronomical.


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    #432
    beachhead
    Registered Users Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭beachhead


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Discussion on it now on Claire Byrne radio show.

    Must be grue if on rte especially claire or Philip or whoever.rte are prime scare mongerers too


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    #433
    Merowig
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭Merowig


    tvjunki wrote: »
    Being able to walk in and speak face to face with an employee of a bank is brilliant. Many automated systems fail when you do not fit into a box.

    I completely agree here.
    I am very techsavy, I work for a multinational and we are doing a lot of software around the digital economy, AI and automation - but I still prefer in the supermarkets and bank some sort of human interaction and usually avoid the machines.
    People should have the choice from my point of view.


    Pity that RBS is leaving here the Irish market - the Oligopoly here becomes more severe.


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    #434
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,553 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Merowig wrote: »
    I completely agree here.
    I am very techsavy, I work for a multinational and we are doing a lot of software around the digital economy, AI and automation - but I still prefer in the supermarkets and bank some sort of human interaction and usually avoid the machines.
    People should have the choice from my point of view.


    Pity that RBS is leaving here the Irish market - the Oligopoly here becomes more severe.

    I think the market here aside from being small is too dysfunctional and costly for any serious operator to come in and shake things up. Its just not attractive.

    We do populism too well here. I mean SF nearly got in to government. None of this goes unnoticed in terms of risk assessment from abroad.


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    #435
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    Sheep Shagger wrote: »
    The reality is you are an outlier - and that costs money to provide.

    Most people don't use branches or tellers, I'm not defending this by the way its just the way the industry has gone.

    Back to Ulster Bank, staff have been told today a decision has not yet been made....

    Ulster Bank CEO tells staff ‘no decision has been taken’ (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/ulster-bank-ceo-tells-staff-no-decision-has-been-taken-1.4488546

    The thing is I am not the only one that is an outlier.I see many lodging and withdraw money and cashing cheques. Businesses are using the branch as well lodging and removing funds as well. People still use the traditional banking services. There is always a good flow of people walking in and out of our branch.
    Maybe some branches are not as busy as others but they can still manage the busiest branches.

    I know there are trends moving away from traditional branch banking but there is still place there for it.
    People do also use the likes of Revolut along side their bank account but their money is not safe I for one would not lodge a large amount into it. Money is hard earned and easily lost.

    If you read the article is says staff will be informed after the agm so anything could happen overnight. News papers are saying all sorts the last few days. Hope they have a bit of good news. Would not want to be in their position. Hope for their and our sakes there is a delay.


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    #436
    tvjunki
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    Merowig wrote: »
    I completely agree here.
    I am very techsavy, I work for a multinational and we are doing a lot of software around the digital economy, AI and automation - but I still prefer in the supermarkets and bank some sort of human interaction and usually avoid the machines.
    People should have the choice from my point of view.


    Pity that RBS is leaving here the Irish market - the Oligopoly here becomes more severe.

    Especially with the covid19 lockdown and people working from home going into the branch and speaking to a teller could be the only conversation that person has in a few days. We should have choice.

    I had to contact Eir in the middle of the lockdown and it was a disaster. I ended up walking into one of their store so see if they could help.

    When you are a regular visitor you get a good relationship with the staff. You do not have that on an automated system.


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    #437
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    I'm not sure if we're ever going to have a responsible discussion nationally about the issues with mortgage lending in Ireland. Irish mortgage borrowers pay some of the highest rates in Europe, this is a fact. Opposition parties and certain commentators try to paint this as Irish banks squeezing borrowers and making supernormal profits. This is not the case, if you're able to compare mortgage rates between countries then you're numerically literate enough to also compare ROE and ROA profitability numbers across countries to see that this is clearly not the case. Claiming the banks are creaming it is populist nonsense, and clearly reflecting in the fact that Ulster Bank doesn't feel its worth staying for and other banks don't feel it's worth coming for. If profits were good then we'd have more banks here.

    So why aren't profits good if rates are high? Largely because we have a legacy of problem loans that has been completely exacerbated by an inability to repossess the security underpinning those loans. The costly capital that Irish banks have to carry is directly as a result of not have recourse against borrowers who go years without making a repayment. Ulster Bank/Natwest have directly attributed this as their reason for reconsidering their operations here.

    Government parties don't want to discuss it because it's politically toxic, opposition parties are happy to ride the populist claim, and certain commentators seem to think it's beneficially to their profile to portray it as something it's not. David McWilliams (who clearly knows better) on his podcast only last week was claiming that AIB is making supernormal profits and should be giving out mortgages at 0%. Most of the media seems to have no interest in having a conservation around the balance of rights between borrowers who pay high rates and borrowers who pay nothing at all.


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    #438
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,553 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Amirani wrote: »
    I'm not sure if we're ever going to have a responsible discussion nationally about the issues with mortgage lending in Ireland. Irish mortgage borrowers pay some of the highest rates in Europe, this is a fact. Opposition parties and certain commentators try to paint this as Irish banks squeezing borrowers and making supernormal profits. This is not the case, if you're able to compare mortgage rates between countries then you're numerically literate enough to also compare ROE and ROA profitability numbers across countries to see that this is clearly not the case. Claiming the banks are creaming it is populist nonsense, and clearly reflecting in the fact that Ulster Bank doesn't feel its worth staying for and other banks don't feel it's worth coming for. If profits were good then we'd have more banks here.

    So why aren't profits good if rates are high? Largely because we have a legacy of problem loans that has been completely exacerbated by an inability to repossess the security underpinning those loans. The costly capital that Irish banks have to carry is directly as a result of not have recourse against borrowers who go years without making a repayment. Ulster Bank/Natwest have directly attributed this as their reason for reconsidering their operations here.

    Government parties don't want to discuss it because it's politically toxic, opposition parties are happy to ride the populist claim, and certain commentators seem to think it's beneficially to their profile to portray it as something it's not. David McWilliams (who clearly knows better) on his podcast only last week was claiming that AIB is making supernormal profits and should be giving out mortgages at 0%. Most of the media seems to have no interest in having a conservation around the balance of rights between borrowers who pay high rates and borrowers who pay nothing at all.

    +1

    There is a reason no serious international operator is in this market nor going to enter it.

    To all intents and purposes, few exceptions, we are back to a cartel now of two banks.

    It's banana republic stuff but hey, houses for life etc etc


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    #439
    Islander13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭Islander13


    Amirani wrote: »
    I'm not sure if we're ever going to have a responsible discussion nationally about the issues with mortgage lending in Ireland. Irish mortgage borrowers pay some of the highest rates in Europe, this is a fact. Opposition parties and certain commentators try to paint this as Irish banks squeezing borrowers and making supernormal profits. This is not the case, if you're able to compare mortgage rates between countries then you're numerically literate enough to also compare ROE and ROA profitability numbers across countries to see that this is clearly not the case. Claiming the banks are creaming it is populist nonsense, and clearly reflecting in the fact that Ulster Bank doesn't feel its worth staying for and other banks don't feel it's worth coming for. If profits were good then we'd have more banks here.

    So why aren't profits good if rates are high? Largely because we have a legacy of problem loans that has been completely exacerbated by an inability to repossess the security underpinning those loans. The costly capital that Irish banks have to carry is directly as a result of not have recourse against borrowers who go years without making a repayment. Ulster Bank/Natwest have directly attributed this as their reason for reconsidering their operations here.

    Government parties don't want to discuss it because it's politically toxic, opposition parties are happy to ride the populist claim, and certain commentators seem to think it's beneficially to their profile to portray it as something it's not. David McWilliams (who clearly knows better) on his podcast only last week was claiming that AIB is making supernormal profits and should be giving out mortgages at 0%. Most of the media seems to have no interest in having a conservation around the balance of rights between borrowers who pay high rates and borrowers who pay nothing at all.


    I think its simplistic to say high capital reserves are as a result of a drawn out repossession process (which I accept is a fact and contributer to the problem). Capital reserves also a feature of backtested data. i.e. Irish Banks proved unable (in the boom times anyway) to appropriately underwrite mortgages, with significant losses seen. Hence they have to provide for potential similar losses into the future until that sunsets away. Its a complex model which lots of layers but fundamentally the reason for the higher rates is the poor bank underwriting in the 02-07 period which they continue to pay the penalty for

    So it both is and isnt the banks fault. And you are correct that they arent "profiteering" as aul Charlie Weston would tell you


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    #440
    sheldon16
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭sheldon16


    silver2020 wrote: »
    It won't be a vulture fund. (I wish people would stop believing SF rhetoric) Your terms have not and will not change one iota.

    If your fixed rate is until 2025, it stays EXACTLY as it is until 2025 and then reverts to the rate as per the terms and conditions you have agreed to and if that rate is not competitive, you switch. Terms and conditions will not change.

    The didn't change for Danske bank customers, they didn't change to Bank of Scotland customers, they didn't change for Irish nationwide customers and they didn't change for First Active customers. Only if you do not pay your mortgage do you have to fear anything - and that would be the same whether Ulster stayed or went.

    You will hear an awful lot of manure from SF and the looney lefty brigade because they want cheap publicity and if that means scaremongering people, so be it - ignore it.

    so if in arrears, best to get back onside before Natwest pull the plug?


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    #441
    Yyhhuuu
    Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Yyhhuuu


    Just enquired about my account by telephone with operative with Ulster Bank I assume in Belfast call centre. When I asked what would happen now that UB ROI closing operations, the operative denied it, and hung up phone for no valid reason. This is not the first time Ulster Bank hung up phone needlessly. I never experienced this with Bank of Ireland who I usually bank with.


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    #442
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭JTMan


    Ulster Bank staff have been called to a meeting at 12:45 PM tomorrow.

    Formal announcement of closure expected at 7 AM tomorrow.


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    #443
    r93kaey5p2izun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,962 ✭✭✭r93kaey5p2izun


    Is it correct to assume Ulster Bank would issue no more mortgages should they announce closure? So would those with UB AIP be best to start the process with a different lender?


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    #444
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Yyhhuuu wrote: »
    Just enquired about my account by telephone with operative with Ulster Bank I assume in Belfast call centre. When I asked what would happen now that UB ROI closing operations, the operative denied it, and hung up phone for no valid reason. This is not the first time Ulster Bank hung up phone needlessly. I never experienced this with Bank of Ireland who I usually bank with.


    Expecting staff to comment on an unannounced issue is just not going to happen. They will have been told to terminate such calls at this stage.


    I'm closing this thread for the moment until we see what happens. Do not open another thread on this issue.


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    #445
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    Official announcement made
    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0219/1198044-ulster-bank-ireland/

    Selling off commercial loans to AIB
    In talks with PTSB about other business

    They said full banking services for the "forseeable future" and "it will happen over the coming years"
    So no need to panic.

    Also "there will be no new compulsory departures from the bank this year", which is some consolation for the staff but still feel sorry for them, banking in general is downsizing.


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    #446
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,253 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    A very good FAQ section on their website.

    They are still open for new business, people in the process of drawing down a mortgage just go ahead as normal, likewise for those with mortgage in principal letters.

    Trackers safe too (as we knew they would be).

    AIB taking a book of commercial loans and staff working on those will transfer to AIB.

    https://digital.ulsterbank.ie/personal/help-and-support/important-customer-notice.html


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    #447
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,295 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    so PTSB will pick up the mortgages?

    gas, just switched mortgage from PTSB to UB in January


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    #448
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    Sheep Shagger wrote: »
    A very good FAQ section on their website.

    They are still open for new business, people in the process of drawing down a mortgage just go ahead as normal, likewise for those with mortgage in principal letters.

    Trackers safe too (as we knew they would be).

    AIB taking a book of commercial loans and staff working on those will transfer to AIB.

    https://digital.ulsterbank.ie/personal/help-and-support/important-customer-notice.html

    Hopefully that will balance the scaremongering in certain media. I bet some journalist and "experts" who were calling Armageddon just yesterday will be embarrassed that they got it so wrong

    Remember UB are profitable, but not profitable enough. EG, if you invested €100,000 in a business and only were getting €2,000 return and no hope of any improvement in the next 10+ years, you'd wind it down, but there'd be no pressure on a fire sale or quick exit as its not losing money.


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    #449
    the_amazing_raisin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,961 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    lawred2 wrote: »
    so PTSB will pick up the mortgages?

    gas, just switched mortgage from PTSB to UB in January


    Still to be decided, it'll likely take years so your mortgage will likely be with UB for a long time


    We just signed up to a 4 year fixed rate this month, I wouldn't be surprised if UB hasn't sold the mortgages by the time that fixed rate is up

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



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    #450
    MANUTD99
    Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭MANUTD99


    Bit the bullet and already started this morning switching current a/c to KBC.
    What's the point in dragging it out

    No monthly fees as long as 2K goes in each month.

    .55% interest on savings a/c. Second best to the Ulster bank savings a/c I had which was .85%

    I will miss Ulster Bank. Especially that time a few years ago when their IT crashed. I got paid 5 times in one week and no direct debits were paid out. As a thank you for not withdrawing they gave I think 50 euro to customers !!


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    #451
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    So, well done NatWest, you have managed to introduce confusion and uncertainty while missing the objective. They have not got a single binding commitment to do anything!

    It reminds me of the decision made by a few European banks to divest themselves of investment banking about ten years ago. Everyone involved in the decision is gone, they still pay lip service to the decision, but business continues as before.

    My crystal ball says in five years time the bulk of UB will still be there, there will be some changes of course, but for most customers not much of note.


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