30m-high student accommodation building is ‘too tall’

https://connachttribune.ie/30m-high-student-accommodation-building-in-galway-is-too-tall/

The backers of a proposed 250-bed student accommodation complex on the Headford Road have been told that its 30-metre height is excessive and needs to be scaled back.

And the management company of the adjacent Galway Retail Park have expressed “grave concerns” that it would be an overdevelopment of the site and would exacerbate an already-congested parking situation in the retail park.

Last July, Cleverson Ltd – which is owned by Roscommon accountant Michael Feeley – applied for permission to develop the site of just over one acre which is currently a temporary carpark and vacant land opposite Lidl.

Cheshire Cat

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://connachttribune.ie/30m-high-student-accommodation-building-in-galway-is-too-tall/

The backers of a proposed 250-bed student accommodation complex on the Headford Road have been told that its 30-metre height is excessive and needs to be scaled back.

And the management company of the adjacent Galway Retail Park have expressed “grave concerns” that it would be an overdevelopment of the site and would exacerbate an already-congested parking situation in the retail park.

Last July, Cleverson Ltd – which is owned by Roscommon accountant Michael Feeley – applied for permission to develop the site of just over one acre which is currently a temporary carpark and vacant land opposite Lidl.

The landlords of places like this obviously don't want competition.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3456324287753704&id=247861075266724

galwayrush

30M isn't exactly high. Close to the city centre and the college.Maybe the planners prefer low density sprawl miles out.

biko

Very similar to the 21-storey tower also opposed by Galway council.
Me, I agree with them as I don't like glass and concrete boxes overtaking the Galway city charming buildings.


https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058108911

Laviski

biko wrote: »

Very similar to the 21-storey tower also opposed by Galway council.
Me, I agree with them as I don't like glass and concrete boxes overtaking over the Galway city charming buildings.


https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058108911

So we just continue to build out and not up.
Okay.
Carry on as we were.

LostDuck

As I mentioned over on the traffic thread;

LostDuck wrote: »

https://connachttribune.ie/30m-high-student-accommodation-building-in-galway-is-too-tall/

This is very backward thinking. We need to build up residential density around the city centre. Students in these facilities will manage with no cars, get off the bus or train in Eyre Square and walk/bike to college.

Instead we push them further out to the suburbs or nearby towns and they're commuting in.

LostDuck

biko wrote: »

Me, I agree with them as I don't like glass and concrete boxes overtaking over the Galway city charming buildings.

There's no charm along the Headford road, unless you count the side wall of the cinema.

biko

biko wrote: »

Me, I agree with them as I don't like glass and concrete boxes overtaking over the Galway city charming buildings.


https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058108911

And this is why we have sprawl.

There is no problem protecting the core areas but as is done all over the world, some areas need to be designated for expansion upwards. Its not a big deal and can further increase the viability of the city center so long as it is done in a controlled and planned way.

The problem with Galway city center is the council have not created a local area plan (LAP) for the area, instead letting private developers take stabs in the dark to see what will get approval and what won't.

It's literally the most stupid and wasteful approach and does nothing whatsoever to protect Galways "charm"

what_traffic

biko wrote: »

Very similar to the 21-storey tower also opposed by Galway council.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058108911

Its only 8 storys high though?
5/6 storys for this location is probably what we will end up with.
Often see Developers do this, send in a proposal that pushes the envelope, then get it scaled back to what they actually want.

The main problem though is with Galway City Council as DaCor has outlined. They have not created a local area plan (LAP) for the whole Headford Road area and they are actually one of the big landowners there of both Greenfield and Brownfield Sites(Dyke Road Car Park).

xckjoo

Is there any city guidelines for this kind of thing or do they just decide based on how they feel about each submission?

Kingp35

biko wrote: »

Very similar to the 21-storey tower also opposed by Galway council.
Me, I agree with them as I don't like glass and concrete boxes overtaking the Galway city charming buildings.


https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058108911

This is such backward thinking.

Sprawl is a bad thing. We NEED to start building up.

what_traffic

xckjoo wrote: »

Is there any city guidelines for this kind of thing or do they just decide based on how they feel about each submission?

Have the City Development Plan - but the only thing really is Zoning; but after that have pretty much free reign if there is no Local Area Plan(with the City Dev Plan). Even Zoning does not guarantee anything in the long run - look at how Liosbaun has slowly morphed from Industrial into Retail.

biko

biko wrote: »

Very similar to the 21-storey tower also opposed by Galway council.
Me, I agree with them as I don't like glass and concrete boxes overtaking the Galway city charming buildings.


https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058108911

Headford Road is about as charming as a dump.

-Vega-

UP is absolutely the way to go. Also it is our responsibility to build UP and not out to protect as much of the original Galway landscape as we can. We keep pushing out taking over fields and woodlands and then we goso far out that we take over MORE fields and grasslands building a big highway shortcut to bring us back in.

Its a bit greedy and very small minded to try and keep a city looking how you want it and not accomodating its natural growth. To keep it aesthetically like a small fishing town with nice thatch cottages might be lovely, but this is a student city and capital of culture. Its booming. You want jobs? You want your kids to have jobs? You want some choice in restaurants and retail? Well that's what it costs. It costs change. The building you remember will eventually have to go. Something more economical and viable will need to take its place.

If everyone had this backward mentality then the entire landmass of the world would be covered over.

LostDuck

-Vega- wrote: »

The building you remember will eventually have to go. Something more economical and viable will need to take its place.

Quay Street, Shop Street, Market Street etc should be protected from over development but the likes of the Headford Road should be built up. Infact it's better suited to dense residential units than sprawling retail parks which pull external traffic in.

Mrs OBumble

LostDuck wrote: »

Quay Street, Shop Street, Market Street etc should be protected from over development but the likes of the Headford Road should be built up. Infact it's better suited to dense residential units than sprawling retail parks which pull external traffic in.

Have you seen the amount that the carpark in IMC cinemas has sunk into the bog? I don't think it's an area I'd be wanting to invest in.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Have you seen the amount that the carpark in IMC cinemas has sunk into the bog? I don't think it's an area I'd be wanting to invest in.

Strange how the weight of a car causes sinking but the buildings don't

Cheshire Cat

Deleted User wrote: »

Strange how the weight of a car causes sinking but the buildings don't

My guess is, that the buildings were properly underpinned whereas the carpark wasn’t.

zell12

You can also see parts of the Dyke Road sinking, south of Bridge underpass.

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Strange how the weight of a car causes sinking but the buildings don't

Ya reckon it wouldn't have sunk if no cars were parked there?


The point is - not many would be willing to buy houses there.

ben.schlomo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ya reckon it wouldn't have sunk if no cars were parked there?


The point is - not many would be willing to buy houses there.

Didn't stop anyone buying in Dun or Gort na Coiribe, won't stop them on this site either.

Laviski

Buildings have foundations - footpaths roads, car parks etc do not.

Just take a look at the retail park, buildings have stayed but the ground around has sunk and alot in some places. Once a upon a time there wasnt steps to get into the Cinema as an example. Another would be to take note of the car park lights and the drop around it. That was once level.

Same too is happening in galway s/c but not as bad.

Laviski

Laviski wrote: »

Once a upon a time there wasnt steps to get into the Cinema as an example.

There has always been steps

Laviski

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There has always been steps

I suppose the steps at the side of the Cinema (Elverys) were always there too.

Fyi this is going back to mid 90's.

xckjoo

Laviski wrote: »

I suppose the steps at the side of the Cinema (Elverys) were always there too.

Fyi this is going back to mid 90's.

I'm almost certain there was. Aren't all the buildings apart from the cinema at the same groundlevel? Not sure how they'd all sink uniformly and leave the cinema on higher ground

galwayrush

xckjoo wrote: »

I'm almost certain there was. Aren't all the buildings apart from the cinema at the same groundlevel? Not sure how they'd all sink uniformly and leave the cinema on higher ground

The cinema building had to be underpinned.

xckjoo

galwayrush wrote: »

The cinema building had to be underpinned.

That doesn't surprise me. Not doubting the place is prone to sinking a bit but I don't think steps were added to the cinema since they built it. More curious than anything

zell12

New planning application gone in on 13/01/21 seeking seven story building

what_traffic

zell12 wrote: »

New planning application gone in on 13/01/21 seeking seven story building

This is the link to it
https://geo.galwaycity.ie/ePlan5/AppFileRefDetails/20184/0

zell12

zell12 wrote: »

New planning application gone in on 13/01/21 seeking seven story building

Possibly will fail on parking facilities alone

134 bike spaces (20 external, 114 internal) and 11 car spaces for 250 occupants

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

Possibly will fail on parking facilities alone

134 bike spaces (20 external, 114 internal) and 11 car spaces for 250 occupants

Agree
Very low for both alright, doubt they could say Dyke Road Car park beside it could mitigate against the low number of car parking spaces?

timmyntc

what_traffic wrote: »

Agree
Very low for both alright, doubt they could say Dyke Road Car park beside it could mitigate against the low number of car parking spaces?

City center apartments next door to all the supermarkets shouldn't need much if any car parking - enough spaces for maintenance types to park if something needs fixed, or if furniture is getting delivered etc.

Living in a city shouldn't need the use of a car. It's time the planners realised that, and encouraging car-driven developments.

timmyntc

timmyntc wrote: »

City center apartments next door to all the supermarkets shouldn't need much if any car parking - enough spaces for maintenance types to park if something needs fixed, or if furniture is getting delivered etc.

Living in a city shouldn't need the use of a car. It's time the planners realised that, and encouraging car-driven developments.

Sorry, I was in fact referring to the bike parking.

timmyntc

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry, I was in fact referring to the bike parking.

Didn't cop that - yes thats surprising. Surely it doesnt cost much in terms of money or space to add enough bike parking per apartment?

Maybe it's a figure based on the projected average uptake of cycling(?) - assumption then would be everyone else exclusively uses the bus or walks?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sorry, I was in fact referring to the bike parking.

It's also next to a city bike share station, would pair up well with the stations next to NUIG.

Galwayguy35

When are we going to realise in this country we need to start building up instead of out.

biko

Sprawl is better than skyscrapers in my opinion.
Skyscrapers concentrate everything "downtown", adding to the traffic problems we already have.
It looks cool in movies from America, but for Galway - no.

What's the upside of a high concentration of tall buildings in the city centre?
What do you think would happen to the tourist industry if the quaint city centre were replaced with glass and concrete boxes, would it increase or decrease?

Decentralise and build high in places like Parkmore and other industrial estates.

timmyntc

biko wrote: »

Sprawl is better than skyscrapers in my opinion.
Skyscrapers concentrate everything "downtown", adding to the traffic problems we already have.
It looks cool in movies from America, but for Galway - no.

What's the upside of a high concentration of tall buildings in the city centre?
What do you think would happen to the tourist industry if the quaint city centre were replaced with glass and concrete boxes, would it increase or decrease?

Decentralise and build high in places like Parkmore and other industrial estates.

Skyscrapers dont add much to traffic problems because people living in them dont need to drive & wont add to traffic.
Take any city in the world and apply Galways population density to it, the sprawl would be immense and the traffic crippling.

I agree glass & concrete boxes arent nice to look at - but thats a different problem.
Entirely feasible to build mid-rise that wont dominate the skyline, and build it out of something that doesnt look like a generic office.

ben.schlomo

biko wrote: »

Sprawl is better than skyscrapers in my opinion.
Skyscrapers concentrate everything "downtown", adding to the traffic problems we already have.
It looks cool in movies from America, but for Galway - no.

What's the upside of a high concentration of tall buildings in the city centre?
What do you think would happen to the tourist industry if the quaint city centre were replaced with glass and concrete boxes, would it increase or decrease?

Decentralise and build high in places like Parkmore and other industrial estates.

You want to build high rise housing in Parkmore and industrial estates?

what_traffic

biko wrote: »

Sprawl is better than skyscrapers in my opinion.
Skyscrapers concentrate everything "downtown", adding to the traffic problems we already have.

This is NOT a skyscraper. If you were not a moderator I would say you are trying to derail the thread?
Its a 30m student block on the Headford Road beside the Industrial style Cinema .Its 7 storys high (https://geo.galwaycity.ie/ePlan5/AppFileRefDetails/20184/0)
+
We have the "car traffic" because we have sprawl. This Development only has 11 car spaces for 250 occupants.

Lost Ormond

biko wrote: »

Sprawl is better than skyscrapers in my opinion.
Skyscrapers concentrate everything "downtown", adding to the traffic problems we already have.
It looks cool in movies from America, but for Galway - no.

What's the upside of a high concentration of tall buildings in the city centre?
What do you think would happen to the tourist industry if the quaint city centre were replaced with glass and concrete boxes, would it increase or decrease?

Decentralise and build high in places like Parkmore and other industrial estates.

Where is the skyscraper? We're talking about 20 storey buildings. We need to stop sprawl. Concentrate in certain areas people living, working better and put in far better infrastructure in terms of public transport, cycling routes, park and ride where necessary and you have a far better city.

Galwayguy35

biko wrote: »

Sprawl is better than skyscrapers in my opinion.
Skyscrapers concentrate everything "downtown", adding to the traffic problems we already have.
It looks cool in movies from America, but for Galway - no.

What's the upside of a high concentration of tall buildings in the city centre?
What do you think would happen to the tourist industry if the quaint city centre were replaced with glass and concrete boxes, would it increase or decrease?

Decentralise and build high in places like Parkmore and other industrial estates.

Quaint is a thing of the past, its not the 1960s any more.

what_traffic

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Where is the skyscraper? We're talking about 20 storey buildings. We need to stop sprawl. Concentrate in certain areas people living, working better and put in far better infrastructure in terms of public transport, cycling routes, park and ride where necessary and you have a far better city.

No its not 20. It is 7/8 story's high building that is been proposed here. The Multi Story car park near by at the Corrib Shopping center will still be looking down on it.

Lost Ormond

what_traffic wrote: »

No its not 20. It is 7/8 story's high building that is been proposed here. The Multi Story car park near by at the Corrib Shopping center will still be looking down on it.

Yeah sorry. Got wires crossed.
And i wouldnt have problem with a 20 storys being built. Main thing to take is the city has to go up and stop always being built outwards

ben.schlomo

Lost Ormond wrote: »

Yeah sorry. Got wires crossed.
And i wouldnt have problem with a 20 storys being built. Main thing to take is the city has to go up and stop always being built outwards

You may have been thinking of the tall hotel plan for the coal yard down the docks.

Jammyd

Plans approved

what_traffic

Jammyd wrote: »

Plans approved

Yup, with 28 conditions
https://plan.galwaycity.ie/VirtualViewerNetHTML5/index.html?documentId=20184_CORRESPONDENCE

Squeeonline

what_traffic wrote: »

Yup, with 28 conditions
https://plan.galwaycity.ie/VirtualViewerNetHTML5/index.html?documentId=20184_CORRESPONDENCE

I'm not so familiar with these documents, but most of these conditions seem very fair and reasonable.

what_traffic

Squeeonline wrote: »

I'm not so familiar with these documents, but most of these conditions seem very fair and reasonable.

Hmmm - read the submissions about the Development and then compare with the conditions. A lot of the conditions attached to the Development by the Council are pretty vague, wide open to interpretation. Overall to me its a positive Development, this area of town needs a big overall, it is a bit of a mess. Still no Local Area Plan for it.....

This has been appealed to ABP by An Taisce

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/309607.htm

https://www.galwaydaily.com/news/appeal-lodged-against-254-bed-headford-road-student-accommodation/?fbclid=IwAR3TKL3Ihjz_RlR1Hxe5HP1686HZK4pogUsoQZi5lEylbEYQepreJkUDsF4

Original planning application, with An taisce's original submission is here - https://geo.galwaycity.ie/ePlan5/AppFileRefDetails/20184/0

I wish I could attach an taisce's initial submission to this post but GCC's planning portal makes it a massive pain to find and extract exact pages of correspondence from a planning application

I did not go through all 689 pages of the original application so maybe I missed something but is an Taisce's objection all to do with the quality of water in Galway and there being maybe too much student accomodation? I'm quite surprised they're the ones to appeal this

I agree that there seems to be a glut of student accomodation. A lot has come on stream in the last few years but I would expect one so close to the centre of town to never be struggling to get tenants for the school year and summer. I do have my doubts that some of the others more recently built will be full especially given they don't seem to be any cheaper than ones which are better located.