All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

What I'm saying is if you get too close to the truth you will be silenced.


If you actually manage to get information out with evidence your life will be made a living hell so as to discourage other who may think about growing a conscience and telling your story.


E.g



Assange
Snowden
Manning
Sgrena


And before people start harping on about conspiracy theorists as opposed to whistleblowers, a whistleblower is a conspiracy theorist up until he/she can produce the goods. Then they become a whistleblower. And a conspiracy theorist is just that until the conspiracy is exposed and then it becomes a scandal.

Whistle-blowing is common, from workplaces, to industry, right up to government and national level. Snowden, Assange, Manning are all separate cases and are controversial because they broke laws to do it.

Whistle-blowing isn't automatically justified in every case, each case can be different and has to be judged on it's own merit.

In the case of e.g. Snowden, the NSA surveillance was already known about, but he just furnished the details which weren't so well known. He also confirmed he found no evidence of traditional "popular" conspiracies like moon landing hoax, aliens, etc.

King Mob

ShatterAlan wrote: »

And before people start harping on about conspiracy theorists as opposed to whistleblowers, a whistleblower is a conspiracy theorist up until he/she can produce the goods. Then they become a whistleblower. And a conspiracy theorist is just that until the conspiracy is exposed and then it becomes a scandal.

No. This is disingenuous.
Whistleblowers are not conspiracy theorists.
They do not spend all day reading conspiracy websites, watching youtube videos and gathering clues to crack to conspiracy then post it to youtube or some rando blog or sell interviews to Alex jones..

They start with the evidence they have. Then the go to the mainstream media with their evidence.

This is what all the guys you pointed to did.

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Whistle-blowing is common, from workplaces, to industry, right up to government and national level. Snowden, Assange, Manning are all separate cases and are controversial because they broke laws to do it.

Whistle-blowing isn't automatically justified in every case, each case can be different and has to be judged on it's own merit.

In the case of e.g. Snowden, the NSA surveillance was already known about, but he just furnished the details which weren't so well known. He also confirmed he found no evidence of traditional "popular" conspiracies like moon landing hoax, aliens, etc.

What law did Assange break? And we're not talking about moon landings or any of that gibberish, DJ, so please stop bringing it up.

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

What law did Assange break?

He's indicted on 17 charges, he also broke bail.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indictment_and_arrest_of_Julian_Assange#:~:text=information%20about%20Assange.-,Charges%20under%20the%20Espionage%20Act,of%20170%20years%20in%20prison.

Fodla

I hear Mr Ryan from WHO said we'd need to continue to socially distance after being vaccinated. All COVID-19 measures are indeed permanent.

Timberrrrrrrr

Fodla wrote: »

I hear Mr Ryan from WHO said we'd need to continue to socially distance after being vaccinated. All COVID-19 measures are indeed permanent.

Link to where he said this?

Dohnjoe

Fodla wrote: »

I hear Mr Ryan from WHO said we'd need to continue to socially distance after being vaccinated. All COVID-19 measures are indeed permanent.

(If) he said he would socially distance, how have you decided that all Covid-19 measures are permanent? explain your logic there..

You do realise lockdown measures were drastically reduced over the summer right? how do you explain that?

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

He's indicted on 17 charges, he also broke bail.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indictment_and_arrest_of_Julian_Assange#:~:text=information%20about%20Assange.-,Charges%20under%20the%20Espionage%20Act,of%20170%20years%20in%20prison.

Now we're getting down to the heart of the matter.


And the breach of bail was for?


If it was that simple then why not simply issue a bench-warrant?


Have you EVER encountered someone who has been locked in an embassy for 8 years because they breached a bail stipulation?

Snowden has emphatically pronounced that he would return to the US to fce his accusers IF they could guarantee that he would face a a fair trial and not be tortured, like Chelsea Manning. Seems fair to me...except the nasties in Washington refuse to give that guarantee.

Do you blame him?



(this will all be moved to IMHO soon anyway) :-))

Fodla

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Link to where he said this?

He said and so did his colleague:

"Maria van Kerkhove, head of the WHO’s emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, said the vaccine will add another piece to a “toolkit” of public health measures that will be necessary to thwart the virus’ spread.

Other tools include drugs to treat severely ill patients and adherence to recommended public health measures like social distancing, mask wearing, avoiding crowds and hand hygiene."

Sounds permanent to me.

Timberrrrrrrr

Fodla wrote: »

He said and so did his colleague:

"Maria van Kerkhove, head of the WHO’s emerging diseases and zoonosis unit, said the vaccine will add another piece to a “toolkit” of public health measures that will be necessary to thwart the virus’ spread.

Other tools include drugs to treat severely ill patients and adherence to recommended public health measures like social distancing, mask wearing, avoiding crowds and hand hygiene."

Sounds permanent to me.

You have not answered the question I asked though, you have linked to something and someone totally different.

Please link to where Ryan said what you claim he said.

I hear Mr Ryan from WHO said we'd need to continue to socially distance after being vaccinated. All COVID-19 measures are indeed permanent.

Fodla

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You have not answered the question I asked though, you have linked to something and someone totally different.

Please link to where Ryan said what you claim he said.

He didn't say they were permanent, but his talk of vaccines complementing the current measures suggests they are.

Timberrrrrrrr

Fodla wrote: »

He didn't say they were permanent, but his talk of vaccines complementing the current measures suggests they are.

Jesus you lads are hard work!

You said

I hear Mr Ryan from WHO said we'd need to continue to socially distance after being vaccinated.

Please link to where he said this, its not rocket science.

Ted_YNWA

Fodla - There is a restriction on people who have made less than 50 posts & they cannot post links. At the start this was a valid reason for not posting one.

Now you are able to do it & please do so, or it makes your proof "they are doing something" meaningless.

I could easily say that I heard Mike Ryan has invested in Pfizer & will be pushing this as the Number 1 vaccine, but the price will be doubled.

But this is a load of rubbish if I don't back it up in someway.

Fodla

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Jesus you lads are hard work!

You said



Please link to where he said this, its not rocket science.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/1126/1180639-mike-ryan/

From 4 minutes on.

Tea drinker

Dohnjoe wrote: »

In the case of e.g. Snowden, the NSA surveillance was already known about, but he just furnished the details which weren't so well known. He also confirmed he found no evidence of traditional "popular" conspiracies like moon landing hoax, aliens, etc.

I thought the mass surveillance wasn't known about, in fact NSA director Clapper lied to congress about it, in itself a crime he should have been convicted for.
Accepting this behaviour leads to more of it.
https://mashable.com/2014/06/05/edward-snowden-revelations/?europe=true

Dohnjoe

Tea drinker wrote: »

I thought the mass surveillance wasn't known about

It was known about, but we didn't know the full extent and details, which were furnished directly by an insider. Likewise Extraordinary Rendition was known about post 9/11 and reported on, but more concrete details only came out later.

ShatterAlan

Fauci predicts higher Covid levels after thanksgiving dinners.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55126003


So why didn't this dildo cancel Thanksgiving?


He predicted a pandemic in 2018 .....the man obviously has a crystal ball.

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Fauci predicts higher Covid levels after thanksgiving dinners.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55126003


So why didn't this dildo cancel Thanksgiving?

He doesn't have any such power. He did issues warnings and guidelines about it.

King Mob

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Fauci predicts higher Covid levels after thanksgiving dinners.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55126003


So why didn't this dildo cancel Thanksgiving?


He predicted a pandemic in 2018 .....the man obviously has a crystal ball.

Again what's your explanation for this?

Are you implying that he is incompetent?
Or are you implying that this is part of a conspiracy somehow?

ShatterAlan

Dohnjoe wrote: »

He doesn't have any such power. He did issues warnings and guidelines about it.

I guess you missed the sarcasm.

Caraibh

I agree with the OP that they are all permanent. The Health Minister of France said as much the other day when he said that he couldn't say whether masks and social distancing would have to continue post-vaccine or not.

Dohnjoe

Caraibh wrote: »

I agree with the OP that they are all permanent. The Health Minister of France said as much the other day when he said that he couldn't say whether masks and social distancing would have to continue post-vaccine or not.

Masks and social distancing are likely to continue for a period after the vaccine comes out. Measures aren't permanent, many were removed or reduced this summer.

Please explain why these measures will be permanent, hundreds of pages of posts on this and still no one has explained that.

Caraibh

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Masks and social distancing are likely to continue for a period after the vaccine comes out. Measures aren't permanent, many were removed or reduced this summer.

Please explain why these measures will be permanent, hundreds of pages of posts on this and still no one has explained that.

From an article in the Irish Examiner:

"France’s health minister says his country is readying to start administering Covid-19 vaccines in late December.

But Olivier Veran has warned that people will still have to wear masks and keep their distance even after vaccines are widely available.

Mr Veran said he cannot say yet whether mass vaccination “will allow us to get rid of this virus and totally return to our past lives”, because it is not clear exactly how long protection from the eventual vaccines will last."

That sounds permanent to me.

Trigger

Caraibh wrote: »

From an article in the Irish Examiner:

"France’s health minister says his country is readying to start administering Covid-19 vaccines in late December.

But Olivier Veran has warned that people will still have to wear masks and keep their distance even after vaccines are widely available.

Mr Veran said he cannot say yet whether mass vaccination “will allow us to get rid of this virus and totally return to our past lives”, because it is not clear exactly how long protection from the eventual vaccines will last."

That sounds permanent to me.

No, that sounds like he is unsure as there is no data to work on at the moment until the vaccine has been put out there on a big enough scale to allow data to show if these will be needed going forward

Caraibh

Trigger wrote: »

No, that sounds like he is unsure as there is no data to work on at the moment until the vaccine has been put out there on a big enough scale to allow data to show if these will be needed going forward

But imagine taking a vaccine and still having to cover your face everywhere and keep your distance from people. It'd be awful.

Dohnjoe

Caraibh wrote: »

From an article in the Irish Examiner:

"France’s health minister says his country is readying to start administering Covid-19 vaccines in late December.

But Olivier Veran has warned that people will still have to wear masks and keep their distance even after vaccines are widely available.

Mr Veran said he cannot say yet whether mass vaccination “will allow us to get rid of this virus and totally return to our past lives”, because it is not clear exactly how long protection from the eventual vaccines will last."

That sounds permanent to me.

To translate for you: We may never get rid of the virus fully (like the seasonal flu) and we may not return to our past lives fully (e.g. more working from home)

Timberrrrrrrr

Caraibh wrote: »

But imagine taking a vaccine and still having to cover your face everywhere and keep your distance from people. It'd be awful.

Why? Its what people do at the moment, if we have to do it for another 6 months or so then so be it.

Dohnjoe

Caraibh wrote: »

But imagine taking a vaccine and still having to cover your face everywhere and keep your distance from people. It'd be awful.

You will still have to do this for awhile. Not everyone will get the vaccine on day 1, it will takes many months.

Caraibh

Trigger wrote: »

No, that sounds like he is unsure as there is no data to work on at the moment until the vaccine has been put out there on a big enough scale to allow data to show if these will be needed going forward

Yes, but needed for how long? Don't forget that this was supposed to be a two week lockdown. There's nothing in what he said to suggest that he doesn't mean forever.

The Nal

Where is the logic for "them" in a permanent lockdown?

Again, the fear and paranoia based on wild speculation is baffling.