All Covid-19 measures are permanent, don't be a boiling frog!

PintOfView

Deleted User wrote: »

Is the fact that there's no level 0 in the 'living with covid plan' evidence, but not proof, that level 1 is as good as it gets?

If you really think that then you are worrying yourself unnecessarily,
the absence of level 0 means nothing.

When the virus is no longer a threat there will be no more restrictions, it's as simple as that.

GT89

PintOfView wrote: »

If you really think that then you are worrying yourself unnecessarily,
the absence of level 0 means nothing.

When the virus is no longer a threat there will be no more restrictions, it's as simple as that.

If that's the case whats the point on levels 2 and 1. The only restrictions the government and NPHET seem to want to use are Levels 3 and 5. Level 1 will never happen. Any what constitutes a threat from the virus? Sure even when you're vaccinated you can still get it.

patnor1011

King Mob wrote: »

Ok. Which ones?
You have been claiming that the injuries and deaths caused by the covid vaccines are high/higher than those caused by the virus.
I'm asking you to provide evidence for this.
You clearly can't do this.

For the third time I will repeat the same since you either cant comprehend what you are reading or purposely twist my words to claim I have said something else in order to make me look bad I have said that:

"For anyone under 50 with reasonably good health it is unnecessary and due to possible side effects it is more dangerous than covid itself."

How on earth did you come with what you are asking about is a mystery to me. But perhaps, it is your modus operandi to twist and change what is said because you are one of those who think they know what others think...

patnor1011

aido79 wrote: »

There are some very mixed views on vitamin D if you research it for more than 10 seconds. It probably belongs in the "can't hurt to try it" or "it might help some people" categories.

On the contrary. That is precisely how chinese managed to get rid of covid complications and subsequent problems like a lot of hospital admissions as they very early on dumped Vit D and C in affected regions by the ton. One of the nordic countries often cited as example of how little cases and deaths they had during this pandemic do have program in place where they supplement mainly vitamin D to their population due to lack of natural production.
And then there is research done in Ireland where they found that all cases which ended up in ICU had severe D deficiency.
It is not a cure but a tool how to steer clear from possible complications. I am afraid that what make it so unpopular is simply that it require some effort to maintain healthy lifestyle and for some rather simple minded individuals one jab a year make more sense than making some simple changes in diet or lifestyle.

aido79 wrote: »

It's a fact that no vaccine is 100% safe and there is risk associated with them. Can you imagine if there was a website showing the adverse effects of driving or being a passenger in a car since 1981? The results would show many many times the number of adverse effects that have resulted from people getting vaccines yet this is never a target for conspiracy theorists. Car manufacturers make more money than vaccine manufacturers could even dream of making so why aren't conspiracy theorists discussing these things?

I never doubted that. I came from a country with more robust vaccination program than Ireland has. It i s also mandatory. I have taken much more vaccines than any poster in here unless they happened to serve in army on some exotic deployment overseas. With that being said I am vaccinated against quite a lot of things most of the folks here are.
I have refused only 2 vaccines so far, HPV vaccine since it make no sense for me being tad over 40 years old and happily married and not in a habit of changing sexual partners. I doubt my wife does something different.
And I politely refused covid vaccine simply because I already had it and therefore I enjoy naturally gained immunity, my body knows how to deal with it. Second reason why I do not bother with it is because there are not enough data yet to determine potential long term complications or delayed response. I have no problem to wait another year or two and then I will see if I will need one or not.
Other posters who are calling me antivaxxer mostly have no idea what they are talking about anyway.

patnor1011

Dohnjoe wrote: »

They aren't "off the menu". Nothing is 100% safe (and no one is saying it is). Hundreds of millions of people have been successfully vaccinated around the world, there are issues with a only handful of them (a couple of cases per million). In a world with no vaccines, millions die, in a world with vaccines, those millions live.

People with extreme and irrational beliefs ("vaccines are dangerous") don't want to process information that contradicts their beliefs. Which is why they keep going around in this hamster wheel of bad logic.

You again generalizing too much. 9 out of 10 people who express concern about current vaccines are not holding irrational belief "vaccines are dangerous".
They simply want to see how current extremely fast developed vaccines fare in long term. Nothing wrong with caution, or precaution. That is why we fasten seatbelt when we sit in our cars.

King Mob

patnor1011 wrote: »

"For anyone under 50 with reasonably good health it is unnecessary and due to possible side effects it is more dangerous than covid itself."

Ok.
Please show the evidence you are using to conclude:
" it is more dangerous than covid itself."

Please provide the scientific papers that have been published in peer reviewed journals.

Do not do as you have before and post links to anti-vaccination propaganda sites.

patnor1011

PintOfView wrote: »

I didn't see anyone saying AZ and J&J are off the table for good!!
They still have a very low level of risk, seems to be single digits per million, with perhaps one or two of those dying.

They are off the table in many places right now. Time will show what will happen with them later

PintOfView wrote: »

If you are 25 and you get covid your risk is also very low.
However as you get into your 50,s and 60's, and 70's the risk from the virus is vastly more than from the vaccine.

That is because we tend to pick up other ailments in many cases multiple of them which make us more fragile to not just covid but pretty much everything else too. People need to stop thinking that covid is the only thing with potential of killing us.

PintOfView wrote: »

If noone gets vaccinated then most will likely get the virus at some stage, as we can't lockdown for ever.

Sure. With current estimate that there is about 3x more of undetected cases we are pretty close to that scenario anyway. You forget that as you recover from covid, many times without even knowing you had one it is as good as getting vaccine if not actually better.

PintOfView wrote: »

You are then at a far higher risk of blood clots, and other issues, and also death, when you do get covid, than from the vaccine.
(and this is known from the past year's experience)

Only if you are in the top of the vulnerable cohort of people. Those who do have several others life threatening health problems. That is also not everyone with advanced age as there are a lot of very old people who managed to survive covid infection without any complications or lasting damage.

PintOfView wrote: »

So that's the choice that faces us all!!
Personally it looks to me like the vaccine is obviously the better choice (vs everyone getting covid)

Here is where you are mistaken. Everyone will get covid at some stage. Vaccinated people do not have any guarantee they will become immune to infection and with virus mutating there is no chance you or anyone else will be able to escape it forever.
It will stay with us like flu or other corona viruses do. Or do you know someone who never got fluor cold in their life? I dont.

patnor1011

King Mob wrote: »

Ok.
Please show the evidence you are using to conclude:
" it is more dangerous than covid itself."

Please provide the scientific papers that have been published in peer reviewed journals.

Do not do as you have before and post links to anti-vaccination propaganda sites.

Sure I will. Right after testing phases for various vaccines come to and end and we will have data available. In case you are not aware they are still being tested and assessment can not come before testing is concluded.
First part is already pretty clear. We do have plenty of data how virus and illness affect young and reasonably healthy people. Absolute majority, millions of them do not even know they have it when test come positive.

King Mob

patnor1011 wrote: »

Sure I will. Right after testing phases for various vaccines come to and end and we will have data available. In case you are not aware they are still being tested and assessment can not come before testing is concluded.

But this is contradictory.
If you're saying that the information isn't available yet, why are you claiming that the side effects are more dangerous than the vaccine?

Why did you claim previously that the VAERS data showed this?
Why did you claim there was "plenty of other sources"?

patnor1011 wrote: »

First part is already pretty clear. We do have plenty of data how virus and illness affect young and reasonably healthy people. Absolute majority, millions of them do not even know they have it when test come positive.

Cool.
Which ones discount long term effects of the virus to the level you are demanding of vaccines?
The virus has only been around for a year and half. Are you saying this is enough time to fully understand it's long term effects?

Could you also perhaps go back to your false statement that the vaccines aren't vaccines and are gene therapy.
What definition of the term "gene therapy" are you using when you've stated that the vaccines don't alter people's genes?

patnor1011

King Mob wrote: »

But this is contradictory.
If you're saying that the information isn't available yet, why are you claiming that the side effects are more dangerous than the vaccine?

Why did you claim previously that the VAERS data showed this?
Why did you claim there was "plenty of other sources"?


Cool.
Which ones discount long term effects of the virus to the level you are demanding of vaccines?
The virus has only been around for a year and half. Are you saying this is enough time to fully understand it's long term effects?

Could you also perhaps go back to your false statement that the vaccines aren't vaccines and are gene therapy.
What definition of the term "gene therapy" are you using when you've stated that the vaccines don't alter people's genes?

It become tiresome to react on your attempts to twisting and turning and trying put a words to my mouth I never said but you still keep doing that.
Where did I say that "vaccines aren't vaccines"?

There is no point to talk to you as you are in habit to changing what was said to suit your own narrative.

Why do you keep twisting what people say?
Why do you think you know what people think?
Why do you state something and then claim other people said that?
Why time and again you deflect from things you have been proven not right before?
Why do you pick things out of context only to make poster look bad?

You are not here to discuss you never had any intention for that you just like to make people look bad and somehow you think it shows you to be clever when you are just manipulator twisting what people say.

3 times now you stated that I said something which I did not, that is not a mistake but malicious intent.
This is my last direct reply to anything you write as you clearly are not going to change your style of trying to confuse people taking things out of context and even changing them presenting that they said something which in fact actually came from your own head.

patnor1011

Another doctor, no doubt conspiracy theorist, antivaxxer and granny killer said this:

A London doctor’s complaint in the British Medical Journal last week of ‘unprecedented’ levels of sickness among health service staff who have had the jab further strengthens the possibility that the vaccine is causing damage of the same type it is designed to prevent.

Under the heading, ‘Do doctors have to have the Covid-19 vaccine?’, consultant K Polyakova writes: ‘I have had more vaccines in my life than most people and come from a place of significant personal and professional experience in relation to this pandemic, having managed a service during the first two waves and all the contingencies that go with that.

‘Nevertheless, what I am currently struggling with is the failure to report the reality of the morbidity caused by our current vaccination program within the health service and staff population. The levels of sickness after vaccination are unprecedented and staff are getting very sick and some with neurological symptoms which is having a huge impact on the health service function. Even the young and healthy are off for days, some for weeks, and some requiring medical treatment. Whole teams are being taken out as they went to get vaccinated together.’

The letter was a response to reports that the Government is considering making it mandatory for NHS workers to have the Covid jab because a high proportion of front-line health-care workers – often those at highest risk of exposure to Covid-19 – are refusing it. Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, said NHS and care-home staff have a ‘professional responsibility’ to get vaccinated.

Dr Polyakova writes: ‘Mandatory vaccination in this instance is stupid, unethical and irresponsible when it comes to protecting our staff and public health. Coercion and mandating medical treatments on our staff, or members of the public especially, when treatments are still in the experimental phase, are firmly in the realms of a totalitarian Nazi dystopia and fall far outside of our ethical values as the guardians of health.

‘I and my entire family have had Covid. This as well as most of my friends, relatives and colleagues. I have recently lost a relatively young family member with comorbidities to heart failure, resulting from the pneumonia caused by Covid.

‘Despite this, I would never debase myself and agree that we should abandon our liberal principles and the international stance on bodily sovereignty, free informed choice and human rights and support unprecedented coercion of professionals, patients and people to have experimental treatments with limited safety data. This and the policies that go with this are more of a danger to our society than anything else we have faced over the last year.

‘What has happened to “my body, my choice?” What has happened to scientific and open debate? If I don’t prescribe an antibiotic to a patient who doesn’t need it as they are healthy, am I anti-antibiotics? Or an antibiotic-denier? Is it not time that people truly thought about what is happening to us and where all of this is taking us?’

robinph

patnor1011 wrote: »

"For anyone under 50 with reasonably good health it is unnecessary and due to possible side effects it is more dangerous than covid itself."

So in the UK England , for just the month of January 2021, there were over 700 deaths of under 50s by covid. See table 2.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-reported-sars-cov-2-deaths-in-england/covid-19-confirmed-deaths-in-england-report

Note that is deaths from covid as its taken from the more researched ONS stats which come out on a weekly basis, it is not from the within 28 days of a test numbers released daily.

There has now been over 20 million people in the UK who have received the Astra Zeneca vaccine. Incidences of clotting is virtually identical across age groups, incidence of death from covid is vastly less for younger age groups.

Despite that variation though, how many people have died in total from any age group from the clotting issue? Is that more or less than the rate of 700 under 50s who died in one month from covid?
If you want to bump up the numbers a bit why not include all of Europe or the world. Is that more or less than 700 in one month, in one subset of ages, in one country?

Edit: The 700 is not even for the UK, its just for England.

King Mob

patnor1011 wrote: »

It become tiresome to react on your attempts to twisting and turning and trying put a words to my mouth I never said but you still keep doing that.
Where did I say that "vaccines aren't vaccines"?

Here.

patnor1011 wrote: »

mRNA vaccines are not vaccines but experimental genetic therapies.
Have a fun trying to present current covid vaccines and experimental genetic therapies as safe.

Again you're going off on a rant to deflect from my questions, making your tirade a bit hollow.

Please go back and address the questions in my previous post.

Timberrrrrrrr

King Mob wrote: »

Here.



Again you're going off on a rant to deflect from my questions, making your tirade a bit hollow.

Please go back and address the questions in my previous post.

And then gets pìssy because no one takes them seriously:pac:

The Nal

Deleted User wrote: »

According to Dave Cullen

So what? Why would you listen to him? What are his qualifications?

EyesClosed

The Nal wrote: »

So what? Why would you listen to him? What are his qualifications?

He's always very easily proven to be a liar who says whatever gullible folk will believe for money.

The Nal

EyesClosed wrote: »

He's always very easily proven to be a liar who says whatever gullible folk will believe for money.

As far as I can tell not one thing he has predicted in the last year or so has come to pass. Not a single thing. Everything just seems to be based on projecting fear which the sheep (the real sheep) seem to lap up.

Pinch Flat

King Mob wrote: »

Here.



Again you're going off on a rant to deflect from my questions, making your tirade a bit hollow.

Please go back and address the questions in my previous post.

Deflection is the friend of the conspiracy theorist. They don't deal with factual information and all the information they regurgitate is heavily biased or edited to suit their narrative. Wasting your time trying to get a straight answer.

King Mob

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Deflection is the friend of the conspiracy theorist. They don't deal with factual information and all the information they regurgitate is heavily biased or edited to suit their narrative. Wasting your time trying to get a straight answer.

Oh, I am not expecting straight answers. Experience tells me not to.
However it's useful to demonstrate that conspiracy theorists will do anything and everything except give a straight answer.

Note also how this is all beside the point of the actual thread. The central question of which has yet to be actually answered with any coherence or depth.

The Nal

King Mob wrote: »

Note also how this is all beside the point of the actual thread. The central question of which has yet to be actually answered with any coherence or depth.

That was abandoned ages ago when it became apparent that all Covid-19 measures are not permanent. Now it just seems to be a general moaning thread.

Went down a rabbit hole on some conspiracy loons Facebook recently. The day after the ship got stuck in the Suez canal people were posting "must read, please share" pics of the ship and about how the world is going to run out of food by mid April (which is today) and how people should "stock up" and so on. The replies, Jesus ****ing Christ. People genuinely terrified. Tagging in family members and friends, "this is really scary" etc.

FFS.

Yet another prediction that hasn't come to pass.

robinph

The Nal wrote: »

That was abandoned ages ago when it became apparent that all Covid-19 measures are not permanent. Now it just seems to be a general moaning thread.

Went down a rabbit hole on some conspiracy loons Facebook recently. The day after the ship got stuck in the Suez canal people were posting "must read, please share" pics of the ship and about how the world is going to run out of food by mid April (which is today) and how people should "stock up" and so on. The replies, Jesus ****ing Christ. People genuinely terrified. Tagging in family members and friends, "this is really scary" etc.

FFS.

Yet another prediction that hasn't come to pass.

The only time I've seen the shelves bare was after some snow a few years ago which blocked access to farms across the UK and so after a few days everywhere was out of bread/ milk/ eggs for a bit. The scary bit though was how long it then took for shelves to be restocked afterwards which showed up how not fresh all the fresh food we get actually is.

That probably helped fuel the great toilet roll shortage of 2020 as people had recently seen shelves empty of certain things. Other than getting hold of flour for baking banana bread there wasn't really much of a shortage of anything last year. At least never for more than a day and only ever caused by people bulk buying things the moment the shelves were filled each morning. The supply of everything was fine, the flour issue was down to the supplies being around bulk bags for catering rather than small bags for home baking so they just couldn't put the stuff in bags, not that it didn't exist.

GT89

The Nal wrote: »

So what? Why would you listen to him? What are his qualifications?

What are Jedwards qualifications?

The Nal

GT89 wrote: »

What are Jedwards qualifications?

None, which is why I wouldn't take their opinion seriously.

King Mob

GT89 wrote: »

What are Jedwards qualifications?

So we're agreed that Dave Cullen is as qualified and authoritative as Jedward?

Common ground at last.

Timberrrrrrrr

GT89 wrote: »

What are Jedwards qualifications?

Who has been quoting Jedward as a reliable source of information on this subject?

GT89

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Who has been quoting Jedward as a reliable source of information on this subject?

They've been banging on for the last year or so about the importance of wearing masks and other covid restrictions despite having no medical qualifications. According to the msm Jedward are credible source but Dave Cullen isn't. Why are RTE letting Jedward talk about masks but won't touch Professor Delores Cahill who is an actual expert.
https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2020/0925/1167575-jedward-be-more-caring-more-thoughtful-wear-a-mask/

The Nal

GT89 wrote: »

They've been banging on for the last year or so about the importance of wearing masks and other covid restrictions despite having no medical qualifications. According to the msm Jedward are credible source but Dave Cullen isn't. Why are RTE letting Jedward talk about masks but won't touch Professor Delores Cahill who is an actual expert.
https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2020/0925/1167575-jedward-be-more-caring-more-thoughtful-wear-a-mask/

This has nothing to do with RTE or Jedward. You were asked what Dave Cullens qualifications are that make him an expert.

You're the one who brought him up.

So, why does he qualify to speak about this stuff?

Timberrrrrrrr

GT89 wrote: »

They've been banging on for the last year or so about the importance of wearing masks and other covid restrictions despite having no medical qualifications. According to the msm Jedward are credible source but Dave Cullen isn't. Why are RTE letting Jedward talk about masks but won't touch Professor Delores Cahill who is an actual expert.
https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2020/0925/1167575-jedward-be-more-caring-more-thoughtful-wear-a-mask/

What did RTE say when you contacted them about this travesty? I don't watch RTE and even if i did you can believe me when I say I wouldn't be taking heed of anything those two gobshìtes say.

Dohnjoe

GT89 wrote: »

According to the msm Jedward are credible source but Dave Cullen isn't.

Still don't know what "MSM" or "mainstream media" is. There are thousands of media outlets, with a wide range of quality. Conspiracy theorists use this phrase all the time to refer to any journalism in general which contradicts their whacky ideas, so they can dismiss it as a whole. We've already had another poster going one step further and dismissing the entire study of history. Same thing.

Also if someone, a musician, a celebrity, etc wants to echo expert consensus, e.g. get vaccinated, put on a mask - nothing wrong with that.

That's very different from referring to some loon on twitter who is contradicting medical science, with no qualifications and replacing it with nonsense.

Fighting Tao

GT89 wrote: »

They've been banging on for the last year or so about the importance of wearing masks and other covid restrictions despite having no medical qualifications. According to the msm Jedward are credible source but Dave Cullen isn't. Why are RTE letting Jedward talk about masks but won't touch Professor Delores Cahill who is an actual expert.
https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2020/0925/1167575-jedward-be-more-caring-more-thoughtful-wear-a-mask/

You’re complaining because they have honest coverage? You’d be complaining if their coverage was dishonest. You can’t have it both ways.