Health Passport Ireland

Westernworld.

It's quite obvious this will come in globally.

Easier to catch them with the passport after than forcing them to take the vaccine upfront

paw patrol

Westernworld. wrote: »

It's quite obvious this will come in globally.

Easier to catch them with the passport after than forcing them to take the vaccine upfront

for sure, straight out of the chinese playbook.
No need to enforce this with the threat of jail or sanctions just deny them the access of a decent enjoyable life.

Westernworld.

paw patrol wrote: »

for sure, straight out of the chinese playbook.
No need to enforce this with the threat of jail or sanctions just deny them the access of a decent enjoyable life.

Pretty much it, but it will happen this way

Can't force anyone to take a vaccine but can make life impossible if they dont

Sunday Independent, front page yesterday. Micheal Martin mentioning how it's "very possible the government will introduce a vaccination passport that would enable people to travel abroad and attend large public gatherings".
Translation: incoming vaccinations. Non-compliance and you lose previous rights and freedoms like travelling, attending concerts, sports events etc.

Taking orders from the EU here. Will be the biggest issue of the coming year if pushed through.

Interestingly, the article was combined with the whole Christmas situation. The headline was "We get it. People are tired. They want a meaningful Christmas". Then the start of smaller print column mentions the above, before reverting back to Christmas talk. Crazy.

biko

Before anyone is forced to take the vaccine the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste, and their families should do it on TV.

biko

biko wrote: »

Before anyone is forced to take the vaccine the entire government should do it on TV.

Let's be honest, that would be meaningless. Easily faked if they didn't want to take the actual vax.

biko

Possibly, but would they risk the scandal if they faked it?
If the leaders of the nation won't risk it, how can they ask the citizens to risk it?

paw patrol

biko wrote: »

Before anyone is forced to take the vaccine the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste, and their families should do it on TV.

Deleted User wrote: »

Let's be honest, that would be meaningless. Easily faked if they didn't want to take the actual vax.

biko wrote: »

Possibly, but would they risk the scandal if they faked it?
If the leaders of the nation won't risk it, how can they ask the citizens to risk it?

doesn't matter tbh - most of these would sell their granny's for politics.
They'd gamble on a risky vaccine to boost their profile.


Its a few years back, but remember the PR gaffe of the british minister having his kid eat a burger as PR stunt to show british beef was safe during the mad cow drama

he was hammered at the time but I think the media are a different animal these days , very much in bed with the politicals



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/369625.stm

Probably the most derided politician to emerge out of the BSE scandal, John Gummer will always be remembered for making great public show of feeding his four-year-old daughter Cordelia a hamburger in the midst of the "mad cow" disease scare.

biko

biko wrote: »

Possibly, but would they risk the scandal if they faked it?

Would be done in a way to ensure that would never happen. Expect celebrities to start posting about receiving their vaccinations. A few possibly will be "vaccinated" on video; easy way to encourage uptake in social media era.

biko wrote: »

If the leaders of the nation won't risk it, how can they ask the citizens to risk it?

Coercion through exclusion. Flying, concerts, sports events. Who knows what then. Supermarkets, perhaps?

People need to realize they'll be signing up for 2-4 shots per year with this. I'm absolutely willing to be tested if needs be before flying etc. No problem. But nobody should be coerced into signing up for these annual vaccinations (possibly even every six months). If this is allowed to go through, why would the pharma companies ever want it to stop? Absolute goldmine. Coronavirus would "always" be a threat -- forever-- one way or another. The whole setup over time would be extremely vulnerable to corruption.

JustAThought

nomdeboardie wrote: »

You were just claiming for damage to the car (no personal, i.e. bodily, injury)? If so, how were they trying to justify that?

They couldn’t !! Car bodywork only & no injury claim for me - but they wanted ALL my meducal records going back decades. I went mental over it. ‘Luckily’ my car was parked at the time so they had zero justification whatsoever and I point blank
refused. I’ll never insure my car with them again - and - as stated , unknown to me at the time their sister company is a (massive!) medical underwriting company. Shocking abuse of personal information. And the useless shower in the Ombudsman showed as little interest as though I had called & said I had dropped a pencil on the footpath.

I wonder how many meetings with Varadkar the managed to wrangle and how many secret reports they had access to in terms of the HSE and their new personal health file management system they have been tinkering with developing and throwing money at for years.

paw patrol

paw patrol wrote: »

I think the media are a different animal these days , very much in bed with the politicals

They are, unfortunately. The newspaper headlines here yesterday and today were very telling. (Paraphrasing):

"May not be enough vaccines for everyone"

"Pfizer tells Ireland: 'Use it or lose it'"

Such transparent sales tactics :rolleyes:

Look, there's been heated debate on other threads about all of this resulting in various bans (myself included), so I'll keep it clean and simple:
I don't want anybody in this country coerced into any medical procedures. I've had vaccines in the past, and have nothing against them in general. That said, I have my reservations about this one, for various reasons. I also fear it will lead us down a dark and slippery slope in other ways.

I think a fair approach would be as follows:

- Those who choose to be vaccinated for Covid can do so. Paid for through taxpayer funds.
- Those who choose not to be vaccinated should be rapid tested prior to air travel, or mass gatherings like concerts and sporting events. Paid for directly by ourselves on site.

I'd be fine with this compromise. It's a sensible, balanced approach. Everyone stays safe, and they can still make their money off us with the testing -- so be it.

s1ippy

Mr. Karate wrote: »

Isn't it amazing how the people pushing this now were all screaming "MY BODY! MY CHOICE!" just a couple of years ago.

Plus these same people would be claiming to be against the Nazis and Communists,etc.

What in the name of fuck are you talking about, of course people who were in favour of bodily autonomy would not be in favour of governments having detailed records on your medical history and using them to restrict you.

What an ignorant view, have you decided anything else that "they" believe?

MrMusician18

paw patrol wrote: »

for sure, straight out of the chinese playbook.
No need to enforce this with the threat of jail or sanctions just deny them the access of a decent enjoyable life.

What exactly is the problem with this? You don't take the vaccine as is your choice, then you don't get to put others in danger, you don't get to share in the spoils of the safety created by everyone else's effort.

If people want to live outside society, that's their choice.

km991148

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What exactly is the problem with this? You don't take the vaccine as is your choice, then you don't get to put others in danger, you don't get to share in the spoils of the safety created by everyone else's effort.

If people want to live outside society, that's their choice.

The problems is, control of data in my mind.

As usual this is dressed up as safety. You know what - I have done fcuk all since March in the interest of safety. No house parties, not mass gatherings, essential travel only. Not seen family since Feb. And now I need to give over everything to god knows who..

It doesn't help there are all sorts of conspiracy theories doing the rounds, but who owns and controls your data is pretty significant.

km991148

km991148 wrote: »

The problems is, control of data in my mind.

As usual this is dressed up as safety. You know what - I have done fcuk all since March in the interest of safety. No house parties, not mass gatherings, essential travel only. Not seen family since Feb. And now I need to give over everything to god knows who..

It doesn't help there are all sorts of conspiracy theories doing the rounds, but who owns and controls your data is pretty significant.

Exactly. And everything that's added on top later will be under the guise of 'safety', too. Annual vaccinations, digital ID's/vax passport tracking any place you enter, government/corporations etc having access to your medical information and all the rest that goes with it.

But at least you're 'safe', right?

MrMusician18

km991148 wrote: »

The problems is, control of data in my mind.

As usual this is dressed up as safety. You know what - I have done fcuk all since March in the interest of safety. No house parties, not mass gatherings, essential travel only. Not seen family since Feb. And now I need to give over everything to god knows who..

It doesn't help there are all sorts of conspiracy theories doing the rounds, but who owns and controls your data is pretty significant.

You don't need to give over everything, the proposal is just to give over your vaccination status for the covid-19 vaccine.

Given that life has been on hold, as you acknowledge because of the pandemic, the above request is a small one with a lot of societal benefit.

MrMusician18

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly. And everything that's added on top later will be under the guise of 'safety', too. Annual vaccinations, digital ID's/vax passport tracking any place you enter, government/corporations etc having access to your medical information and all the rest that goes with it.

But at least you're 'safe', right?

Slippery slope fallacy. Fight that battle when it comes, not when it's invented in your head.

paw patrol

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What exactly is the problem with this? You don't take the vaccine as is your choice, then you don't get to put others in danger, you don't get to share in the spoils of the safety created by everyone else's effort.

If people want to live outside society, that's their choice.

That's brilliant , straight out of the social credit handbook.


My problem with this is , that it is control. Large parts of my free will (and free movement that i'm entitled too) are being taken away (proposed) - if I won't comply. I'm being imprisoned (in a manner) if I don't play ball and jump through their hoops.

I find it difficult that people don't at least understand the issue with this.

but once we are safe? yeah.
Covid19 isn't the worst illness we have seen yet it's being used to roll out huge changes to our lives.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Slippery slope fallacy. Fight that battle when it comes, not when it's invented in your head.

it's too late then. It's always is.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

You don't need to give over everything, the proposal is just to give over your vaccination status for the covid-19 vaccine.

Given that life has been on hold, as you acknowledge because of the pandemic, the above request is a small one with a lot of societal benefit.

but it's not this is it. Sure I'll tell them yes or no on the vaccine but it'll be used to discriminate and that's the issue.

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Slippery slope fallacy. Fight that battle when it comes, not when it's invented in your head.

Too late then, as paw patrol said. Prevention is always better than cure, if you'll excuse the pun.

You really think a health passport would stop at Covid-19? That's very naive.

MrMusician18

paw patrol wrote: »

That's brilliant , straight out of the social credit handbook.


My problem with this is , that it is control. Large parts of my free will (and free movement that i'm entitled too) are being taken away (proposed) - if I won't comply. I'm being imprisoned (in a manner) if I don't play ball and jump through their hoops.

I find it difficult that people don't at least understand the issue with this.

but once we are safe? yeah.
Covid19 isn't the worst illness we have seen yet it's being used to roll out huge changes to our lives.



it's too late then. It's always is.


but it's not this is it. Sure I'll tell them yes or no on the vaccine but it'll be used to discriminate and that's the issue.

Would you say your free will is limited by not being permitted to go drink driving? Why can't you be steaming and take to the roads. Do you feel you're imprisoned if you don't play ball with that? Do you feel imprisoned by having to wear clothes in public?

Your argument is ridiculous and belongs in the conspiracy theory bin. Behaviour and actions have long been regulated - having a vaccine to participate in mass gatherings and to prevent the spread of disease is completely reasonable. And it's also reasonable for society to shun those that opt out.

MrMusician18

Deleted User wrote: »

Too late then, as paw patrol said. Prevention is always better than cure, if you'll excuse the pun.

You really think a health passport would stop at Covid-19? That's very naive.

I think that preventing the unvaccinated form participating in mass gatherings will stop the spread of C19.

I also think this is about fairness. Why should those that choose to remain unvaccinated share in the spoils of the win, whilst also putting others in danger.

You don't want the vaccine, you accept the consequences of your choice.

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Would you say your free will is limited by not being permitted to go drink driving? Why can't you be steaming and take to the roads. Do you feel you're imprisoned if you don't play ball with that? Do you feel imprisoned by having to wear clothes in public?

Danger of drink driving > dangers of Covid
x100

MrMusician18 wrote: »

And it's also reasonable for society to shun those that opt out.

Won't happen. Too many won't take it.

paw patrol

BTW this isn't a conspiracy cos it is already happening in Denmark.


there have been protests against a new law (epidemic law) that :

would be able to define groups of people who must be vaccinated. People who refuse the above can be coerced through physical detainment, with police allowed to assist

they can define any group as they see fit - this is forced vaccinations.
given we have given the minister of health here complete power to define things as he sees fir it - it's a huge concern.

https://www.thelocal.dk/20201113/explained-what-is-denmarks-proposed-epidemic-law-and-why-is-it-being-criticised

Not in some dictatorship but within the EU itself,.

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I think that preventing the unvaccinated form participating in mass gatherings will stop the spread of C19.

I also think this is about fairness. Why should those that choose to remain unvaccinated share in the spoils of the win, whilst also putting others in danger.

You don't want the vaccine, you accept the consequences of your choice.

"Spoils"? What spoils? The life we already had before our freedoms were taken away? Some win :pac:

paw patrol

paw patrol wrote: »

BTW this isn't a conspiracy cos it is already happening in Denmark.


there have been protests against a new law (epidemic law) that :





they can define any group as they see fit - this is forced vaccinations.
given we have given the minister of health here complete power to define things as he sees fir it - it's a huge concern.

https://www.thelocal.dk/20201113/explained-what-is-denmarks-proposed-epidemic-law-and-why-is-it-being-criticised

Not in some dictatorship but within the EU itself,.

Denmark is the new Auswitch. Disgusting.

This should concern everyone, regardless of their stance on vaccination. Would make one very suspicious, too.

EDIT: Just seeing that the proposal has been scrapped (for now). People took to the streets for a week, apparently; bravo. Wonder if their government will have a back-up plan?

JustAThought

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Slippery slope fallacy. Fight that battle when it comes, not when it's invented in your head.

Its already happening. When is the last time you did a job interview and they demanded to have access to your doctor and medical records - and if you refuse you are removed as a candidate. That is on top of the reasonable request of going to a doctor of their choice and doing a ‘medical’/practical. Its already here. It will only get worse. And thats before you start to try and get health insurance, a place in a nursing home, etc

MrMusician18

Deleted User wrote: »

Danger of drink driving > dangers of Covid
x100



Won't happen. Too many won't take it.

Dangers of passive smoke >C19? I don't think that's the case, yet we regulate and accept that? How about clothes?

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Dangers of passive smoke >C19? I don't think that's the case, yet we regulate and accept that? How about clothes?

Are you still trying to compare not being allowed to walk around naked in public vs coercion into multiple, annual vaccinations, digital ID's, health passports etc? Really?

The Denmark situation should alert you to the type of thing we're talking about.

RobbieTheRobber

Deleted User wrote: »

Denmark is the new Auswitch. Disgusting.

This should concern everyone, regardless of their stance on vaccination. Would make one very suspicious, too.

EDIT: Just seeing that the proposal has been scrapped (for now). People took to the streets for a week, apparently; bravo. Wonder if their government will have a back-up plan?

Fúck off with your godwined nonsense.
I cant say I fully agree with the proposed Denmark legislation but they haven't yet resorted to the mass extermination of anyone. So no its not the new Auschwitz

RobbieTheRobber

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Dangers of passive smoke >C19? I don't think that's the case, yet we regulate and accept that? How about clothes?

Don't forget we also already regulate travel through the use of government issued documents and some countries have other requirements including medical checks prior to being allowed visit.