Numerous HEO ICT PAS Roles

R75MM

ICT Specialists - Digital Transformation and Business Engagement
https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&cid=123702&campaignId=20183008

Closing Date for Application
24/09/2020

_________________

Senior ICT Specialists - Networks and Security
https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&cid=123706&campaignId=20185102

Closing Date for Application
24/09/2020

_________________

Senior ICT Specialists - Software Development
https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&cid=123705&campaignId=20185208

Closing Date for Application
24/09/2020

_________________

Senior ICT Specialists - Infrastructure and Operations
https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&cid=123726&campaignId=20185007

Closing Date for Application
24/09/2020

_____________________

****** SEPARATE ******

There's another role/panel, but this is a EO level - not HEO:
Information and Communications Technology (ICT) Specialists in the Civil Service
https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&cid=123672&campaignId=20178102


Employing Department/Authority
Office of the Government Chief Information Officer

Closing Date for Application
24/09/2020

R75MM

Very quiet here - does this mean there is no interest?

Just to note:
The Executive Office Panel (https://www.publicjobs.ie/en/?option...ignId=20178102)
Employing Department/Authority has been changed to: "Civil Service" this was "Office of the Government Chief Information Officer" so it must be all part of the one competition - just different 'streams' etc.

Anyone applying at all?

- R7

proFriendL

I'm going to apply for "ICT Specialists - Digital Transformation and Business Engagement" suits my skillset ... anyone else??

TestLink

Some of the cons with the PublicJobs Civil Service ICT campaigns are

1.The successful candidates doesnt have a say in which department they would be going. PublicJobs dictates this. I was in the 2019 HEO ICT panel and was assigned to a dept I was not interested in going. So I rejected the offer.

2. The reference process takes ages.

3.The person who was in charge of last campaign was not communicating well with the candidates. I had to email several times back and forth for getting updates about status of the references,medical reports etc. Even after a reference was obtained 2 weeks ago the person in charge was not communicating that to me.

4. Probation is 1 year

5. You might be assigned to an area where you have no experience in. You might be currently working in an area like Networking / Server Support / Service Desk etc and could be assigned to a Application Support role writing SQL Stored Procedures!

Above said, if you are lucky you might get a role you are interested in, in a dept you like. So sort of hit and miss...

proFriendL

TestLink thanks for the insight.. can I ask which stream you applied for??

TestLink

proFriendL wrote: »

TestLink thanks for the insight.. can I ask which stream you applied for??

Last time it was for ICT Infra Support.

proFriendL

Was there AP ICT open competition this year??
I think last year HEO & AP open ICT were ran at the same time?

Mrs OBumble

Is there any realistic hope of these positions not being Dublin based - and if so, where might they be?

AndrewJRenko

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Is there any realistic hope of these positions not being Dublin based - and if so, where might they be?

D/Housing have some IT team in Wexford, and D/Agriculture have some in Portlaoise, as far as I know. D/Education have some infrastructure people in Tullamore.

No idea if those teams are or will be looking for people in this campaign.

Burgo

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

D/Housing have some IT team in Wexford, and D/Agriculture have some in Portlaoise, as far as I know. D/Education have some infrastructure people in Tullamore.

No idea if those teams are or will be looking for people in this campaign.

Killarney is the HQ for Culture, a number of IT staff there, they also have staff in galway and wexford for now.
Could be a case made for WFH!

Kind of surprised that these competitions went ahead. Seems to be 2 seperate trains of thought for IT in the CS.
On one hand there are these comps for professional IT posts.(Great IMO) On the other hand there is a big push to centralise IT services within OGCIO, which would make posts within each department reduntant.

FenFlynn

I’m considering applying for these jobs but I only have the qualifications, missing a year experience. Not sure if there is any hope at all making shortlisting. Anyone applied before any tips on how strict they are with experience. And any tips on how to write the application forms? I’m finding it really tough going. Thanks in advance

floorpie

The listed relevant (required) experience for Business Engagement seem quite high for a payscale starting on 48k....governance of ICT initiatives, contributions to ICT standards? How stringent are these requirements?

Bit ridiculous but is it possible to apply to all 3 HEO roles and the EO role? Would this influence any decisions on their part?

TestLink

There would be separate interviews for all the four HEO ICT streams. Separate interview also for EO ICT.

I dont think interview to the roles of HEO ICT and EO roles are linked as the application forms and selection process are separate.

proFriendL

Did the Location change for these jobs, I was sure they all said Nationwide.. now today only the software one says Dublin,Nationwide and the rest just say Dublin
I'm halfway through filling in the application & not interested in Dublin

floorpie

The texts say mostly Dublin but potentially anywhere:

"It is envisaged that the majority of vacancies arising over the lifetime of the panel will be located in Dublin. However, a limited number of vacancies may also arise in regional locations which may filled from this panel."

kathleen37

This is from the booklet for Infrastructure and Operations;

Vacancies and Location

Applicants who are successful in this competition will be placed on a panel, in an order of merit. ICT
Specialist vacancies arising across the Civil Service may be filled from this panel. Such vacancies
may exist in one of many Government Departments/Offices, or in a Civil Service role in an ‘agency’
of a Government Department, including organisations such as the Department of Agriculture, Food
and the Marine, the Office of the Government CIO in the Department of Public Expenditure and
Reform, the Revenue Commissioners, the State Laboratory, the Central Statistic’s Office, and An
Garda Siochána.

It is envisaged that the majority of vacancies arising over the lifetime of the panel will be located in
Dublin. However, a limited number of vacancies may also arise in regional locations which may be
filled from this panel.


That was the only one I downloaded so doesn't look to be any change in that one

AndrewJRenko

floorpie wrote: »

The listed relevant (required) experience for Business Engagement seem quite high for a payscale starting on 48k....governance of ICT initiatives, contributions to ICT standards? How stringent are these requirements?

Bit ridiculous but is it possible to apply to all 3 HEO roles and the EO role? Would this influence any decisions on their part?

Requirements are generally fairly hard and fast. They will only want to interview those who meet the requirements, so you won't get through shortlisting if you don't demonstrate that you meet the requirements.

You'll probably get better results by focusing on the one or two streams that best match your experience, and writing really clear applications with good examples rather than the broad blunder buss approach.

AndrewJRenko

FenFlynn wrote: »

I’m considering applying for these jobs but I only have the qualifications, missing a year experience. Not sure if there is any hope at all making shortlisting. Anyone applied before any tips on how strict they are with experience. And any tips on how to write the application forms? I’m finding it really tough going. Thanks in advance

Read the booklet. Read it again and again. All the requirements are set out clearly, so tick them off as you provide evidence that you meet them.

rvcedd

R75MM wrote: »

Very quiet here - does this mean there is no interest?

Just to note:
The Executive Office Panel (
Employing Department/Authority has been changed to: "Civil Service" this was "Office of the Government Chief Information Officer" so it must be all part of the one competition - just different 'streams' etc.

Anyone applying at all?

- R7

Hi - seems like the link you shared is broken - is there another way of accessing it?

AndrewJRenko

rvcedd wrote: »

Hi - seems like the link you shared is broken - is there another way of accessing it?

Search for it on the publicjobs.ie website

floorpie

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Requirements are generally fairly hard and fast. They will only want to interview those who meet the requirements, so you won't get through shortlisting if you don't demonstrate that you meet the requirements.

Thanks. I suppose what I should have asked is what level of experience are they expecting to hire for a HEO role? Because the requirements don't seem to be in-line with the 3 years experience specified.

I know some non-ICT HEOs who are not long out of college and simply don't have much experience in the workplace. Whereas I know some very experienced ICT people who still couldn't say they have experience in governance of ICT in an organization, or have contributed to standards.

You'll probably get better results by focusing on the one or two streams that best match your experience, and writing really clear applications with good examples rather than the broad blunder buss approach.

I believe I could write 3 adequate unique applications, I'm just wary that PAS might, e.g., have mechanisms to filter out "spammy" applicants.

AndrewJRenko

floorpie wrote: »

Thanks. I suppose what I should have asked is what level of experience are they expecting to hire for a HEO role? Because the requirements don't seem to be in-line with the 3 years experience specified.

I know some non-ICT HEOs who are not long out of college and simply don't have much experience. Whereas I know some very experienced ICT people who still couldn't say they have experience in governance of ICT in an organization, or have contributed to standards.

The requirements are exactly as set out in the booklet, no more and no less. There's no mystery or magic tricks. Read the requirements set out in the booklet, and write an application that clearly demonstrates how you meet that application.

It doesn't matter at all what other HEO's have, ICT or not. There may be existing ICT HEOs that don't meet these requirements - that is entirely irrelevant. The requirements for THIS competition at THIS point in time are set out in the booklet.

floorpie wrote: »

I believe I could write 3 adequate unique applications, I'm just wary that PAS might, e.g., have mechanisms to filter out "spammy" applicants.

They do - each application will be reviewed to see that it meets the minimum requirements. If you don't meet the requirements, or more accurately, you don't demonstrate that you meet the requirements, you will be rejected.

If you do meet the requirements, you will be scored, and they will call for interview based on your score.

I actually haven't read these booklets, so I'm open to correction, but that has been the process for similar competitions.

flipflophead22

Interested in the Security & Networks one but not in Dublin. Im in the west so no idea if i should apply or not...

rvcedd

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Search for it on the publicjobs.ie website

I did and couldn't find any more information other than the roles themselves. Under the "Campaign Updates" there is nothing related to this panel/set of jobs. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place?

Thanks.

AndrewJRenko

rvcedd wrote: »

I did and couldn't find any more information other than the roles themselves. Under the "Campaign Updates" there is nothing related to this panel/set of jobs. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place?

Thanks.

What 'updates' are you looking for? The booklet is there, with instructions for how to apply. What more do you need?

AndrewJRenko

I wonder if being able to spell the name of the employing department is an essential requirement for the CTO role?

https://publicjobs.ie/en/index.php?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&Itemid=263&cid=124103&campaignId=20191700

kathleen37

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I wonder if being able to spell the name of the employing department is an essential requirement for the CTO role?

https://publicjobs.ie/en/index.php?option=com_jobsearch&view=jobdetails&Itemid=263&cid=124103&campaignId=20191700

Yep, great communicaitons there...

FenFlynn

Just submitted mine today for one stream only. I wonder how long it would take to get a result back.

trigger26

FenFlynn wrote: »

Just submitted mine today for one stream only. I wonder how long it would take to get a result back.

Booklet says interviews would be starting October/November so shortlisting should be quick enough.

HugoMyBoss

This thread is surprisingly quite!

floorpie

HugoMyBoss wrote: »

This thread is surprisingly quite!

I wonder is that a good sign or is everybody keeping schtum... The posts on FB were similarly quiet.

I do think that the requirements they list are a bit ridiculous. If you wholly fulfil them you would get you a FAR better salary elsewhere at the moment, moreso than the usual public/private discrepancy. Bit weird that 22 year old undergrads are getting a better package from non-FAANG bog standard companies, straight out of college, in Dublin, than senior ICT staff in CS. This may somewhat explain the quietness.

That being said, I also got a few applications in

TestLink

floorpie wrote: »

The posts on FB were similarly quiet.

Do you mean a Facebook group? Can you please share the link?

FenFlynn

I'd say it'll be more active after shortlisting. I'm not confident to get through that for the one I applied. Will have to wait and see, hopefully I'm put out of my misery soon.

floorpie

TestLink wrote: »

Do you mean a Facebook group? Can you please share the link?

No sorry, I meant the ads that pop up on timelines (I think from the PublicJobs page), in which people tag each other saying "You should apply". For some campaigns (e.g. EO) you'll see hundreds of comments/shares, for this there were ~20 comments the day before deadline. I'm sure this is quite a rough estimate of interest

TestLink

floorpie wrote: »

No sorry, I meant the ads that pop up on timelines (I think from the PublicJobs page), in which people tag each other saying "You should apply". For some campaigns (e.g. EO) you'll see hundreds of comments/shares, for this there were ~20 comments the day before deadline. I'm sure this is quite a rough estimate of interest

Thanks...

beauf

floorpie wrote: »

I wonder is that a good sign or is everybody keeping schtum... The posts on FB were similarly quiet.

I do think that the requirements they list are a bit ridiculous. If you wholly fulfil them you would get you a FAR better salary elsewhere at the moment, moreso than the usual public/private discrepancy. Bit weird that 22 year old undergrads are getting a better package from non-FAANG bog standard companies, straight out of college, in Dublin, than senior ICT staff in CS. This may somewhat explain the quietness.

That being said, I also got a few applications in

Anyone with the experience and qualifications will want more money. Anyone with one and not the other night be ok with the money, but don't meet the minimum requirements. Same problem all over the PS. That's my thinking.

floorpie

beauf wrote: »

Anyone with the experience and qualifications will want more money. Anyone with one and not the other night be ok with the money, but don't meet the minimum requirements. Same problem all over the PS. That's my thinking.

I see inconsistent payscales/requirements also, which is confusing as an applicant. E.g. NTA has a senior dev role up now, same requirements as HEO dev, but it's an engineer grade and is 70-90k. Perhaps there's an explanation for this but as an outsider I assumed there'd be more consistency in CS.

trigger26

beauf wrote: »

Anyone with the experience and qualifications will want more money. Anyone with one and not the other night be ok with the money, but don't meet the minimum requirements. Same problem all over the PS. That's my thinking.

The money is not always a factor, I was in private/contracting before joining as a HEO, outside of Dublin the wage is very good plus the security was huge for me starting out with a young family looking to get a mortgage. There are many opportunities to get to the next grade if you wish plus the support on training is something I'm still getting used to. When in private I used to get the fee for the exam and maybe a half day leave but all the rest was on your own time and expense.

un5byh7sqpd2x0

HugoMyBoss wrote: »

This thread is surprisingly quite!

Money is terrible, for what’s described as “senior” roles.

doc22

trigger26 wrote: »

The money is not always a factor, I was in private/contracting before joining as a HEO, outside of Dublin the wage is very good plus the security was huge for me starting out with a young family looking to get a mortgage. There are many opportunities to get to the next grade if you wish plus the support on training is something I'm still getting used to. When in private I used to get the fee for the exam and maybe a half day leave but all the rest was on your own time and expense.

There isn't that many AP or HEO IT roles outside Dublin to taking like that. Training wise in civil service in my experience you're left to yourself(no real training plan) and leave isn't much more then exam day, and no reward in terms of pay for achievements.

beauf

Probably varies enormously between teams and departments.

Even in the private sector it can be down to how people are managed locally.

I've seen it where a handful of people constantly get their training approved and others in the same section are constantly refused.

trigger26

doc22 wrote: »

There isn't that many AP or HEO IT roles outside Dublin to taking like that. Training wise in civil service in my experience you're left to yourself(no real training plan) and leave isn't much more then exam day, and no reward in terms of pay for achievements.

Never mentioned the opportunities were ICT related nor did I ever expect someone else to sort my training plan for me. I trained to help me get into a role I wanted, luck is a big factor too

doc22

trigger26 wrote: »

Never mentioned the opportunities were ICT related nor did I ever expect someone else to sort my training plan for me. I trained to help me get into a role I wanted, luck is a big factor too

Outside Dublin there's a small number of AP positions.And it's all very good but most training requires a business case from PO for sign off(presumably in current role) . I've heard about the educational/training opportunities in civil service but you have to push for them and even at that they still mightn't be signed off. There's not some unlimited training budget, far from it. My experience is waiting years for basic internal courses.

AndrewJRenko

floorpie wrote: »

I see inconsistent payscales/requirements also, which is confusing as an applicant. E.g. NTA has a senior dev role up now, same requirements as HEO dev, but it's an engineer grade and is 70-90k. Perhaps there's an explanation for this but as an outsider I assumed there'd be more consistency in CS.

It might sound a bit picky, but the NTA isn't CS. It is public sector, not civil service - so they have their own grades and roles, as they operate in specialist areas. I didn't see the role you mention, so I can't comment on their particular grading.

doc22 wrote: »

There isn't that many AP or HEO IT roles outside Dublin to taking like that. Training wise in civil service in my experience you're left to yourself(no real training plan) and leave isn't much more then exam day, and no reward in terms of pay for achievements.

It's not unreasonable to expect any employee to own their own training plan. Your experience on training sounds very different to mine, with strong encouragement from management to gain extra qualifications (technical qualifications with certification or PM qualifications or QQI level 6 or 7 or 8 qualifications). Some of these courses are run during normal working days, so you're getting time off to attend, along with exam time. If you want to do a Masters or something outside, you can apply for the scheme to get fees refunded.

There is no automatic pay increase linked to training qualifications, but they are pretty much essential if you're going to applying for promotional posts.

trigger26

doc22 wrote: »

Outside Dublin there's a small number of AP positions.And it's all very good but most training requires a business case from PO for sign off(presumably in current role) . I've heard about the educational/training opportunities in civil service but you have to push for them and even at that they still mightn't be signed off. There's not some unlimited training budget, far from it. My experience is waiting years for basic internal courses.

Solas are running free ICT courses at the moment due to Covid, exam voucher included to if you complete enough of the course

https://www.ecollege.ie/course/

flipflophead22

Anyone apply for the networks and security role?

Burgo

flipflophead22 wrote: »

Anyone apply for the networks and security role?

Yeah I did, know a few people who did.

greyslate

I've thrown my hat in the ring for this. Can anyone shed some light on which I can expect from the process?

Also, does anyone have any info on how the pension scheme works in the CS? I've reviewed the detail on the Single Pension Scheme website, and while it's clear what someone would contribute, I'm less clear on how much someone would expect to receive in their pension based on contributions over time.

rostalof

greyslate wrote: »

I've thrown my hat in the ring for this. Can anyone shed some light on which I can expect from the process?

Also, does anyone have any info on how the pension scheme works in the CS? I've reviewed the detail on the Single Pension Scheme website, and while it's clear what someone would contribute, I'm less clear on how much someone would expect to receive in their pension based on contributions over time.

it's worked out from your career average salary. Pre-2013 it was worked out from your average salary for your last three years.

The current scheme works something like this. You start as a HEO on €48k per year and end up on something like €62k a year. Over your 40 year career, lets say your average salary was €55k per year.

So (40/80) x 55,000 = 27,500
Your pension will be €27,500 made up of the state contributory pension (just under €13) topped up by your civil service pension to €27,500

If your currently 43 years old for example, then you only have 25 years to the projected retirement age of 68 (to be introduced in 2027 although it could be quicker the way things are going)

Then your career average may be lower and your years service will be only 25. Lets say your average is €50k in this instance.

So (25/80) x 50,000 = 15,625
Your pension will be €15,625 made up of the state contributory pension topped up by your civil service pension to €15,625

There's also a tax free lump sum which is worked out in a similar way but I can't remember at the minute.

That my friends, is your "gold plated public\civil service pension" that the media bleat on about incessantly. Oh and there's also an added deduction from your wages, to pay for the premium pensions of the pre-2013 entrants. Isn't that lovely!

TestLink

The civil service salary is low but the work load is not that low ! Like the 29K starting salary for EO is pathetic.

rostalof

TestLink wrote: »

The civil service salary is low but the work load is not that low ! Like the 29K starting salary for EO is pathetic.

Yeah, but we have 'gold plated pensions'.....