Customs clamp down on counterfeit jerseys.

Brand_New

I see boards have a section for an advice on buying replica football jerseys.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057635672&page=201

With the clampdown by customs on such things is there any risk in ordering a replica jersey? Before it was only large ordered that were seized but now there seem to be interest in small orders.

Is there a difference between replica and counterfeit?

I'd like to order on but am not comfortable breaking the law.

GM228

Brand_New wrote: »

Is there a difference between replica and counterfeit?

I would think there is a huge difference between replica and counterfeit.

A replica/copy is to produce an object identical to a given object while counterfeit is to falsely produce what appears to be official or valid.

Would probably also depend on how an item is marketed, licensing, permissions etc.

bobbyy gee

Customs can not check
Each parcel. They scan it for drugs. If they opened each parcel it would take a year to deliver

GM228

bobbyy gee wrote: »

Customs can not check
Each parcel. They scan it for drugs. If they opened each parcel it would take a year to deliver

Customs here seize millions of € worth of counterfeit goods each year.

EU wide there is around €800M worth of counterfeit goods seized by customs per year.

Brand_New

GM228 wrote: »

A replica/copy is to produce an object identical to a given object while counterfeit is to falsely produce what appears to be official or valid.

The "replica" of the Manchester United jersey on one of the sites promoted here on boards uses the official Adidas logo.
Is that legal?

http://www.sandycn.net/20-21-Man-United-Home-Soccer-Jersey-Shorts-p1453475.html

Samuel T. Cogley

I'd say no it isn't, but it's been years since I delved into IP law.

Brand_New

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I'd say no it isn't, but it's been years since I delved into IP law.

That's my understanding too.

But at the same time I do know that boards clamps down very hard on any talk that promotes illegal activity. And the replica jersey is a very long running and very active thread (actually 2 threads as the first one reached the post limit).
So I can't help but think am misunderstanding.

Guy:Incognito

A replica jersey is the official thing you buy in a shop.

These sites sell counterfeits.

Brand_New

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

A replica jersey is the official thing you buy in a shop.

These sites sell counterfeits.

If that's the case why would some of the mods on boards be encouraging discussion on where to buy counterfeit goods?

Guy:Incognito

Brand_New wrote: »

If that's the case why would some of the mods on boards be encouraging discussion on where to buy counterfeit goods?

You'd have to ask them that.

Brand_New

I'm unsure if there is a forum where such a question would be appropriate.

Victor

Brand_New wrote: »

I'm unsure if there is a forum where such a question would be appropriate.

Send a private message to the relevant moderators. If necessary, escalate to the relevant admins and then https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1397

Quantum Erasure

Ah here, 'newly regged' account, coming in telling tales, ruining it for the rest of us....

Carawaystick

Whats the legal basis for revenue taking actual tangible chattels from the owners, because they are similar to others?
Is it a trademark or copyright infringement? What happens when the copyright expires? the estate of the owner of the tangible thing has been deprived of the use of it, and very likely the state will have destroyed it long before.
What happens if a trademark was invalidated? Anyone can sell Big Macs because McDonalds lost the trademark. If something with a big mac logo was siezed previously for being counterfeit, who would compensate the owner for their loss?

Brand_New

Carawaystick wrote: »

What happens if a trademark was invalidated? Anyone can sell Big Macs because McDonalds lost the trademark. If something with a big mac logo was siezed previously for being counterfeit, who would compensate the owner for their loss?

There was never a unique big mac logo and it was never a valid trademark. The companies(McDonald's) trademark is the golden arches.

Adidas has a valid trademark and once the counterfeit is seized at the a point in time where it is valid then there is no issue.


As a matter of interest some posters are now talking about paying import customs duty on these jerseys. I could see there being a legal issue if revenue we to knowingly charge people import tax on counterfeit items.

Silly Gilly

Brand_New wrote: »

There was never a unique big mac logo and it was never a valid trademark. The companies(McDonald's) trademark is the golden arches.

Adidas has a valid trademark and once the counterfeit is seized at the a point in time where it is valid then there is no issue.


As a matter of interest some posters are now talking about paying import customs duty on these jerseys. I could see there being a legal issue if revenue we to knowingly charge people import tax on counterfeit items.

I see you started a thread in Help Desk about this. No surprise about the response you got. This was brought up before and another admin, who is supposedly a laywer (although I believe he got his diploma in a Christmas cracker) no less, dismissed the clear breach of copyright.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=108842717

It is just another example of the jokeshop that this site has become under the current administration. Hardly surprising when they are tolerating racists, misogynists, and various alt-right loons that they'd have no issue with a little IP infringment. Woe betide though if you try to advertise your business where it might hurt Boards' bottom line.

I suggest that if you want to bring this further that you report it to the Premier League. They dont take kindly to their intellectual property being abused. Watch Boards **** themselvelves when the legal letters start arriving!

https://www.premierleague.com/legal/anti-counterfeiting-programme

info@backfour.co.uk

I'll be firing off an email there myself just to spite those equivocating clowns Beasty and hullaballoo.

con747

The replica jerseys are licensed, the counterfeit ones are counterfeit. That is why it is allowed on Boards
"The main difference between jerseys is that replica jerseys are intended to be made for fans to wear off-field while authentic jerseys are a player issue style, meaning that the authentic football jerseys are the ones that the players actually wear on pitch"

Quantum Erasure

Are these counterfeit replica, or counterfeit authentic we're talking about? (or authentic replica counterfeit authentic...?)

Peregrinus

Carawaystick wrote: »

Whats the legal basis for revenue taking actual tangible chattels from the owners, because they are similar to others? . . .

Don't quote me, but I think it's Council Regulation 608/2013. The answer to some of the other questions you ask may be in there too.

From experience, i have found that there is never any issue with getting jerseys in from abroad. i can imagine the volume of light garments is so high, that it would be logistically impossible to check them all. If you order something bulky alright such as Shoes, boots or Runners, you will more than likely have them confiscated.

con747

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Are these counterfeit replica, or counterfeit authentic we're talking about? (or authentic replica counterfeit authentic...?)

There are only three types, Authentic = Players wear while playing. Replica = fans buy to wear (wishing they were playing). Counterfeit = made in a sweat factory somewhere unlicensed unlike the first two.

Peregrinus

con747 wrote: »

There are only three types, Authentic = Players wear while playing. Replica = fans buy to wear (wishing they were playing). Counterfeit = made in a sweat factory somewhere unlicensed unlike the first two.

All three types are likely made in a sweat factory. It's the licensing that's the key issue, not the labour conditions.

Brand_New

Do you think that boards helping to facilitate the import of these unlicensed jerseys could cause legal issues for the websites parent company?

con747

Peregrinus wrote: »

All three types are likely made in a sweat factory. It's the licensing that's the key issue, not the labour conditions.

Much less chance of a licensed version being made in a sweat factory though.

Brand_New

con747 wrote: »

Much less chance of a licensed version being made in a sweat factory though.

Does that make a difference from a legal point of view?

What exactly is the legal definition of a sweat factory?
And is it illegal to import good into Ireland from one?

con747

Brand_New wrote: »

Does that make a difference from a legal point of view?

What exactly is the legal definition of a sweat factory?
And is it illegal to import good into Ireland from one?

Consult a solicitor.:)

Peregrinus

Brand_New wrote: »

Do you think that boards helping to facilitate the import of these unlicensed jerseys could cause legal issues for the websites parent company?

Dunno, but I imagine the company has taken advice on that issue.

My gut feeling is that the risk is not great. It's not (so far as I know) a crime for me to import goods whose manufacture would have required a license but wasn't licensed. The risk I fact is not arrest, charge, conviction, penalty, but simply confiscation of the goods concerned. And if it's not a crime for me to import the goods, I struggle to think that those whose services were engaged in the process - couriers, packaging companies, advertising channels, etc - were committing crimes.

And, if it were a crime to import the goods or to provide ancillary services, I think you'd have the problem of proving that the importer/service provider knew that the goods concerned (a) needed to be licensed, and (b) werent.

wonski

It is funny actually when they ban people for admitting not paying motor tax or things like that, yet let this counterfeit fest to continue

Of course these are counterfeit as ....

Similarly you can't provide a link to unlicensed Premier league match stream, but can discuss how to order 12 pounds or whatever "replica" Jersey from same league...

con747

It appears the OP is stirring the proverbial, https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=114547481

Brand_New

con747 wrote: »

It appears the OP is stirring the proverbial, https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=114547481

I was advised in this thread to make that post.

con747

Brand_New wrote: »

I was advised in this thread to make that post.

Leave you to it so.:pac:

Brand_New

Peregrinus wrote: »

Dunno, but I imagine the company has taken advice on that issue.

My gut feeling is that the risk is not great. It's not (so far as I know) a crime for me to import goods whose manufacture would have required a license but wasn't licensed. The risk I fact is not arrest, charge, conviction, penalty, but simply confiscation of the goods concerned. And if it's not a crime for me to import the goods, I struggle to think that those whose services were engaged in the process - couriers, packaging companies, advertising channels, etc - were committing crimes.

And, if it were a crime to import the goods or to provide ancillary services, I think you'd have the problem of proving that the importer/service provider knew that the goods concerned (a) needed to be licensed, and (b) werent.

I believe the lack of consequences for importing is not due to it being legal but due to lack of resources to punish the crime in the vast majority of cases.

Boards.ie has now become a resource for people wishing to gain information on importing counterfeit goods. How did it come to this?

Brand_New

con747 wrote: »

Leave you to it so.:pac:

Are you mocking the advise of other posters?

Silly Gilly

con747 wrote: »

The replica jerseys are licensed, the counterfeit ones are counterfeit. That is why it is allowed on Boards
"The main difference between jerseys is that replica jerseys are intended to be made for fans to wear off-field while authentic jerseys are a player issue style, meaning that the authentic football jerseys are the ones that the players actually wear on pitch"

Con, I'm not sure what part of ordering $16 Manchester United jerseys through WhatsApp you think is legitimate. It is obvious to anyone that these are fakes and Boards are turning a blind eye because it increases their post numbers and therefore revenue.

I don't particularly care about Premier League clubs getting ripped off. It's the hypocrisy and inconsistentcy of Boards that annoys me. For example, mention IPTV in Broadcasting and the moderator of that particular fiefdom will scold you like a naughty child.

Like most things in this disaster of a site it has been left to the whims of unpaid volunteers to set whatever rules they see fit. This place should be used as a reference for how not to run a business.

sabat

con747 wrote: »

There are only three types, Authentic = Players wear while playing. Replica = fans buy to wear (wishing they were playing). Counterfeit = made in a sweat factory somewhere unlicensed unlike the first two.

There's also a "grey market" where a factory owner in Asia doing a big run for one of the sports firms will knock out an extra few hundred jerseys or pairs of runners and send them out the back door to the market. These goods are the exact same as the official ones but at a fraction of the price.

Silly Gilly

Brand_New wrote: »

I believe the lack of consequences for importing is not due to it being legal but due to lack of resources to punish the crime in the vast majority of cases.

Boards.ie has now become a resource for people wishing to gain information on importing counterfeit goods. How did it come to this?

It is run by clowns.

Silly Gilly

Brand_New wrote: »

Are you mocking the advise of other posters?

Apropos of nothing, but I wonder why you keep rage-quitting then re-registering a short while later. I think it would probably be best if you just gave the place up altogether.

Brand_New

Silly Gilly wrote: »

Apropos of nothing, but I wonder why you keep rage-quitting then re-registering a short while later. I think it would probably be best if you just gave the place up altogether.

The website is a wealth of information.
I don't have the legal knowledge to understand this situation but there are some on this forum who do.

wonski

sabat wrote: »

There's also a "grey market" where a factory owner in Asia doing a big run for one of the sports firms will knock out an extra few hundred jerseys or pairs of runners and send them out the back door to the market. These goods are the exact same as the official ones but at a fraction of the price.

Yeah, right...

That's what they are, exactly the same - not. Even if they were that means they were stolen, so not sure that's any better;)

They are also the brand new iphones with slightly damaged boxes also given away for free on facebook because they can't sell them in this condition:D

Silly Gilly

Brand_New wrote: »

The website is a wealth of information.
I don't have the legal knowledge to understand this situation but there are some on this forum who do.

You are not really answering my question, coloured bucket, but whatever. Best of luck to you!

con747

sabat wrote: »

There's also a "grey market" where a factory owner in Asia doing a big run for one of the sports firms will knock out an extra few hundred jerseys or pairs of runners and send them out the back door to the market. These goods are the exact same as the official ones but at a fraction of the price.

Quote, "What does GREY market mean?
A grey market is a market in which goods have been manufactured by or with the consent of the brand owner but are sold outside of the brand owner's approved distribution channels—an activity that can be perfectly legal"

Goodbye all

Brand_New

Silly Gilly wrote: »

You are not really answering my question, coloured bucket, but whatever. Best of luck to you!

I'm trying to keep on topic but would like to acknowledge that I do appreciate the information from posters like yourself who have knowledge in this area.

sabat

wonski wrote: »

Yeah, right...

That's what they are, exactly the same - not. Even if they were that means they were stolen, so not sure that's any better;)

They are also the brand new iphones with slightly damaged boxes also given away for free on facebook because they can't sell them in this condition:D

What's so unbelievable about it? The man from Adidas says "here's the blueprint, I need 5,000 of these at $5 a piece." The Vietnamese textile factory owner does an extra 200 on the sly and knocks them out for $15 each. It's extremely common. In this scenario any legal dispute would be between them and not on the end consumer. I mean, you're right, it is a form of theft.

hullaballoo

Silly Gilly wrote: »

I see you started a thread in Help Desk about this. No surprise about the response you got. This was brought up before and another admin, who is supposedly a laywer (although I believe he got his diploma in a Christmas cracker) no less, dismissed the clear breach of copyright.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=108842717

Actually, I collected 7,000,000 Pepsi Points and they gave me 2 undergraduate degrees, a Masters and a Professional degree from Clown University. Tbh, the Christmas cracker diploma is just sitting in a wardrobe gathering dust as I don't rate it.

Most people using this site are smart enough not to look a gift horse in the mouth but occasionally, someone barrels in looking to police things for themselves and, well, clowns like Beasty and me and the rest of the admins can only really shrug our shoulders and move on.

I'll be firing off an email there myself just to spite those equivocating clowns Beasty and hullaballoo.

This hurts my feelings... oh no, wait, it doesn't.

GM228

I thought you only got a Harrier Jump Jet with those Pepsi points, if only I had known....

I'm guessing most are scratching their heads now saying what on earth are they on

Peregrinus

GM228 wrote: »

I thought you only got a Harrier Jump Jet with those Pepsi points, if only I had known....

I'm guessing most are scratching their heads now saying what on earth are they on

What are you on? Can I have some?

hullaballoo

Pepsi'd up to the eyeballs. :eek:

GM228

Peregrinus wrote: »

What are you on? Can I have some?

hullaballoo wrote: »

Pepsi'd up to the eyeballs. :eek:

Some other form of Cola, possibly a replica or counterfeit Pepsi, not sure so best not advocate it's use here

Victor

GM228 wrote: »

what on earth are they on

Millions. They're on millions and millions and are absolutely minted.

Guy:Incognito

con747 wrote: »

Quote, "What does GREY market mean?
A grey market is a market in which goods have been manufactured by or with the consent of the brand owner but are sold outside of the brand owner's approved distribution channels—an activity that can be perfectly legal"

Goodbye all

Running off extras and selling them out the back door is not with the consent of the brand owner.........



I don't visit the fashion forum, is there a similar thread for knock off handbags and clothes?

con747

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Running off extras and selling them out the back door is not with the consent of the brand owner.........



I don't visit the fashion forum, is there a similar thread for knock off handbags and clothes?

Where did I mention selling anything out a back door? I merely explained what "grey market" means.