Sage Barista Express

alec76

1 ) Distributing tool: you always start with the lowest settings, try it , if surface of a puck still not level , pull it up one notch , try it and so on, until it level.

2 ) no idea what razor tool is , just don't use it.

3) 8-9 second after you press the button? That's not right, unless this freaking thing has pre-infusion .

Did you start the count from pressing the button or from the first drops of a coffee?

I think you grind settings set too fine btw and lots of channeling too.

magic_murph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120325334#Comment_120325334

The razor tool is just a leveling tool to scrap away any excess coffee. Most of the time after tamping there isn't any excess.

Yeah I believe there is a pre-infusion which takes the 8-9 seconds. I start the count when I press the button (I have read different reports that the count should start after pressing button and other saying after the first drop of coffee)

I have played around with the grind setting from fine to course and get mixed results.

Most painful thing is I make a cup thats tastes ok, not perfect by any means, then the next day without changing anything the cup is rotten. I just cant trust it to make a cup without having to measure and time everything.

DaveyDave

My machine takes several seconds from the shot button for coffee to start coming out. There's a half pressure sort of action before it ramps up to full extraction.

Some people count when coffee comes out, some people count when you press the button. It gets very confusing. But apparently that's NOT preinfusion? I think you can hold the shot button for manual preinfusion.

alec76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120325441#Comment_120325441

Not sure about scrapping away any excess btw.

If your basket couldn't take 18 g then don't fill it to that level ( you could shake it before leveling or during the grinding too)

What basket came with the machine , is it regular or pressurized ( double wall basket)?

I used to grind with Sage Pro grinder before ,clumps were terrible .I had to break it with the needle ( before leveling and tamping) to get any decent shots . Is your grinder any better? Good grinders makes practically no clumps , all grounds looks very fluffy. Clumps create channels in the puck , so you have to break them before leveling.

That's how bad clumping looks like

DaveyDave

A tooth pick can be used to 'stir' the grinds to loosen clumps, then tamp.

FileNotFound

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120324872#Comment_120324872

I have found some coffee can be more challenging than others, I use cloudpicker and found formation to be way more consistent than Henry etc.

With some coffee I have had to use doses up to 19g to get it right, don’t be afraid to overdose if you are finding it tamp down.

I understand that different roasts grind differently so may require more play with quantity as much as tamp etc

magic_murph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120326158#Comment_120326158

I am using the double wall basket. It can take the 18g no problem. I usually give it a decent shake to break up the clumps, level off my hand, use the distribution tool then tamp. I also have the basket guide device that came as an added accessory so prevent any spillage.

i haven't noticed any big clumping as in the picture above.

This morning without changing anything the machine is over extracting so the suggestion is to use an courser setting - this wasn't a problem yesterday.

99% of the time the pressure gauge is right at the end of 'Espresso Range' never really below that point. Not sure if that makes a difference as still within the zone.

I believe there is a Sage rep in the local Harvey Norman once a week so might call in to chat with them but have a feeling he will just say play around the with grind and qty settings which is what I have been doing. I would happily pay for somebody to call around and get this sorted as at the moment its just not working for me.

DaveyDave

Funny you say that, I'd love to have someone come around to my house and pull a good shot from my machine. €600 grinder along with upgraded IMS basket and shower screen and regular cleaning yet a shot I pull today could be much different from one in a couple of days. Same grind amount, same level, tamp yet varying shot times. It's a pain.

alec76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120329166#Comment_120329166

Most of Sage users would tell you that there's nothing wrong with the shots you pulling. Including Sage rep.

Double wall basket is useless , you should use regular one , otherwise there is no difference how you leveling/tamping, nothing to learn.

ps. You won't break the clumps by shake it (only at the surface maybe, not at the bottom of the basket.

dr.kenneth noisewater

deleted

magic_murph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120329249#Comment_120329249

Whats the issues with the double wall baskets. Are you saying use the regular one and just program a longer shot (double shot Vs a single shot - I only drink americanos)

alec76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120329594#Comment_120329594

You probably confusing single /double shot basket Vs Double WALL ( ie pressurized basket, used in some entry level machines , mostly for pre-ground coffee)

magic_murph

yeah I think its the double walled basket that I am using. I can try the single basket to see if that makes a difference

What about buying pre-ground coffee (from a roaster) would that remove some of the complication and I would just need to measure out the 18g of pre ground espresso and take it from there ?

alec76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330845#Comment_120330845

Surely you could Google pressurized basket Vs unpressurized basket and see the difference.

I've no idea what type of baskets Sage supplies those days. How many baskets you had altogether?

Could be 2 or 4 or 3.

-Single Shot basket non pressurized

-Double Shot basket non pressurized

- Single Shot basket pressurized ( double wall)

-Double Shot basket pressurized ( double wall)

Right Basket to use would be Double Shot (14-18g) non pressurized basket ( ie regular basket, industry standard) Sage would call it "Filter Single Wall 2 Cup - 54mm"

CalamariFritti

My Barista Express came with 4 baskets. Two double walled, two single walled, single and double shots each. The single walled are meant for freshly ground coffee, the double walled are meant for coffee that was bought ground. The way I take it from the manual is that when you buy ground coffee its will be less fresh/oily hence the double wall.

Again, probably sounding like a broken record, I'm running the standard setup and I have zero problems. I use the built-in grinder and I found my grind size and my amount and I use the same not very expensive Lidl coffee beans every time and I get great results every time. My cappuccino is the exact same every morning. My buddy has the same machine and says the same, zero probs.

Whatever is not right with the setup of people who have problems I don't think different grinders, weighing, different tampers, micromanaging basically, is the answer. It wasnt super easy at the start but once the right setup is found it feels fairly straightforward and consistent and easy.

magic_murph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330980#Comment_120330980

Thanks. The basket you posted is actually the one I am using. I thought we had found a silver bullet there but no such luck.

alec76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333902#Comment_120333902

Just to be clear , picture above wasn’t great, both baskets looks very similar from the inside.

It is outside you have to compare

https://lifestylelab.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Basket_image_4.jpg

something like this , it is DUAL bottom actually rather than side wall

magic_murph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120333942#Comment_120333942

Thanks. From reading other sites that double wall basket, the last one you posted, is for shop bought beans / pre-ground coffee rather than fresh coffee from a roaster. Either way I am going to give it a go to see what difference it makes

alec76

Dual wall basket not designed for the coffee enthusiasts , it is more or less lazy way out. You'll never pull great shot with it , just slightly better than Nespresso quality without hassle.

FileNotFound

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120329199#Comment_120329199

Maybe your dose is just off, some coffee requires 19g + for your dose despite the basket description as 18g.

All in all the machines tend to work, level/tamper is my one recommendation but otherwise consistency has never been an issue really.

I have had more challenges with some beans over others. What beans are you running through the machine?

alec76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120337218#Comment_120337218

You could pull great shot with 16g of coffee in basket rated 18. Brewing ratio is matter. All you need is proper equipment.

Poor grinder is the only reason you have to use 19g+ for some beans.

Some people just have more expectations and looking for ideal shot and others …not.

FileNotFound

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120337433#Comment_120337433

Well I base it off tasting the same as when I get one from the roaster so can’t be too far off haha.

When someone has an expensive grinder and complains they can’t get consistency I suggest they try something other than what they’ve been trying is all 😉

BE is a entry level machine, you get what you pay for.

alec76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120337532#Comment_120337532

I am just saying there is good chance he wouldn’t call your shots consistent too.

to get consistent shots you need :

• consistent grinder
• Exact water pressure
• exact water temperature

DaveyDave

I'm grinding around 16.5g at the moment, any more and it starts spilling out. Maybe I need to calibrate my grinder as I've had it for a while now...

FileNotFound

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120337832#Comment_120337832

Dosing funnel can help, can find them on Amazon handy enough. I just give the portafilter a shake when it’s nearing the top, Will level the grinds and create more room.

You should easily get 18g in the double non pressurised basket.

Found pre heat porta and run a few blanks is also a requirement for the BE, otherwise temps can be more variable. Capillary thermoblock is fast heat up but will lose heat once it leaves the block like no tomorrow.

FileNotFound

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120337624#Comment_120337624

Might as well try to help the other poster!

Even with the BE grinder and a simple routine, last hundred shots been the planned for 2.2:1, 27-30sec and taste the same (all preset for ease now). Who knows maybe I’m doing something wrong

magic_murph

New related issue.

Made a decent brew yesterday. 90% happy with the result.

Today, without changing anything. Grinded 18g of coffee, used the distributer tool, used the tamp (all the same as yesterday)

Literally no coffee produced, just drips. Tried another 2 times and exactly the same result. I just gave up.

Beyond frustrated with this machine.

alec76

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120354420#Comment_120354420

Same beans ? How do you keep them ? ( hopper, single dose etc) Beans are quite sensitive to oxidation, fresh beans grinding at one settings, if you leave them in a hooper for the few days you should grind finer to get same extraction, if you top up hopper again with beans from the sealed bag you should go back into coarser settings.

Dante

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120354420#Comment_120354420

Could be the temperature of the machine? Are you pre-heating it and pouring as soon as the light starts flashing?

magic_murph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120354905#Comment_120354905

Same beans. I generally half fill the hopper and leave the beans in the bag they come in but closed with a plastic clips - sounds like I might need an air tight container.

The fact nearly zero water came through the puck would make me think I need to grind courser - will try that today.

Its getting painful