Workplace group texting

Strumms

antix80 wrote: »

oh pipe down :rolleyes:

No thanks but thanks for your contribution :rolleyes:

In their opinion the person the op talks about has a ‘mental health issue’. To believe that would require a diagnosis from a qualified professional.

mirrorwall14

Funnily enough this came up in our school this week too. There has been a gradual creep on more and more use of our personal phone numbers and phones being compulsory so that you could be text about absences/cover etc. None of it was intentional but it has spiralled into large subject whatsapp groups, year head/tutor groups, all second year teachers etc. It’s bonkers in my opinion and the platform is highly unsuitable for using for a school. It was flagged so we’ll see what happens. We all have school email, that’s what it’s for. If someone isn’t checking their emails, that’s management problem in my opinion. Or we need slack or something but I shouldn’t need to be receiving massive amounts of WhatsApps on a personal device

Treppen

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I would like to agree with you but the world has changed. This sort of thing (WhatsApp groups) is fairly normal now. I think it would take legislation to stop it.

WhatsApp group for work isn't really normal.

GDPR legislation is putting a halt to it. https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0128/1111512-gaa-urges-clubs-to-avoid-whatsapp-due-to-gdpr-concerns/

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

Nope. Give and take works when it is a two way street... what employers will want in this situation as regards flexibility and give and take is a one way street... a whole team on call on to them on an app, outside of their working hours, them from time to time contributing and working by giving input on work issues via the app while not getting paid to do so... and the invasiveness of their phone with regularity receiving messages, muted or otherwise... go to check a message from friends or family you can see the fûcking thing lit up.

I’ve no interest as to who is on what time zone. Not my problem. If I’m paid to be working Tuesday - Saturday 10.00 - 18.00...I’m ready to commence work at 10.00 and I’m walking out the door at 18.00, work phone off.

I’m flexible to a point when I’m at work, flexible to NO point when I leave. Time is mine, all mine, for my family, friends , and the enjoyment of life, exclusively. Without disturbances, distractions or invasions....

To be honest, I wouldn’t hire someone with that attitude and I wouldn’t have got the job I have or my previous job with that attitude as my contract states I have to be available if needed and won’t be paid extra. This is par for the course in most modern, highly skilled work environments especially if you want to progress to senior positions.

Also the people I work with are friends, I have no issue chatting on the what’s app group with them as it’s 80% non work chat anyway.

Like you say you won’t reply to an email after 6. What happens when you have a doctors appointment? I bet you have to take annual leave etc. If I need to leave work for a few hours I generally just go, if it’s for a few hours I’d probably stick unavailable in the calender so no one arranges a zoom meeting or whatever. That’s just one example of how flexibility works in your favour.

Also I’m here on boards now while working so you know I’m doing personal stuff during work hours so it would be somewhat poor if me to refuse point blank to action something outside of my allotted work hours.

I also have the use of high end devices such as my work laptop worth several thousand for personal use so if something pops up while I’m using it in the evening I don’t mind giving up a few mins.

theteal

Gael Round Against wrote: »

If I was offered a work phone I’d take the device (once it was a better iPhone than the one I have) but I’d refuse a work sim as I’d rather just have one phone/phone number for everything.

A lot of phones can take 2 sims now. On top of that, my work phone is configured for 2 profiles i.e. work and personal. Essentially 2 separate phones in one. Works a treat - although a bit of a pain when you take a photo in the wrong profile with the intention of emailing via the other. Carrying 2 phones get tiresome quickly.

OP, as mentioned several times, it's very easy to mute a whatsapp group.

Our place doesn't use whatsapp anymore. We've gone on to Webex Teams which has a handy feature that enables alerts only when you're mentioned. So with that combined with my fairly standard ooh settings I find unnecessary disturbances very rare.

frozenfrozen

dot

antix80

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Funnily enough this came up in our school this week too. There has been a gradual creep on more and more use of our personal phone numbers and phones being compulsory so that you could be text about absences/cover etc. None of it was intentional but it has spiralled into large subject whatsapp groups, yeah head/tutor groups, all second year teachers etc. It’s bonkers in my opinion and the platform is highly unsuitable for using for a school. It was flagged so we’ll see what happens. We all have school email, that’s what it’s for. If someone isn’t checking their emails, that’s management problem in my opinion. Or we need slack or something but I shouldn’t need to be receiving massive amounts of WhatsApps on a personal device

It's absolutely fine to provide your employer your personal number and there's a variety of good reasons they may need your personal number (building's on fire, don't come in)

They would have no right to add you to a group chat (sharing your number!) without your permission. You also shouldn't use your personal number for work issues between your colleagues or customers.

Strumms

Treppen wrote: »

WhatsApp group for work isn't really normal.

GDPR legislation is putting a halt to it. https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0128/1111512-gaa-urges-clubs-to-avoid-whatsapp-due-to-gdpr-concerns/

Great to see.. NOTHING normal about it. What we are seeing here and from other chancers is the pushing of the agenda of staff being ALWAYS on, ALWAYS contactable, ALWAYS at hand for employers... not good, not happening and soon illegal to try.

Strumms

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Disgraceful? Get some fresh air.

I said it is a mental health issue not she has a mental health issue. The OP has been edited since I first read it and the previous gist was finding it hard to reinstall due to anxiety over the group chat.

You don't have to be an expert to say someone being too anxious to install whatsapp over being in a group chat is more than a work issue.

No interest in your reply so don't bother

The air is plenty fresh here, although not so up in the clouds or up somewhere else that you have a penchant for frequenting... I’ll bother, if I feel like it...

Feeling of anxiety or anxiety disorders are vastly different issues. One mental illness / health related, the other not.

JayRoc

The last time someone I do some work for added me to a whatsapp group "just so we can all share thoughts" I immediately texted her, and the head guy on the team, explaining that I don't do whatsapp groups (for all the reasons already covered here) and left the group.

I understand the politics of leaving a group you are already in can be more difficult, so in order to avoid the problem coming up again I activated a setting on my phone that means I cannot be added to one without agreeing first.

It also means you avoid the dross that is the PTA/football team/etc group. I always say if it's important enough for me to know, just contact me directly. It never is

nogoodnamesleft

Strumms wrote: »

Nope. Give and take works when it is a two way street... what employers will want in this situation as regards flexibility and give and take is a one way street... a whole team on call on to them on an app, outside of their working hours, them from time to time contributing and working by giving input on work issues via the app while not getting paid to do so... and the invasiveness of their phone with regularity receiving messages, muted or otherwise... go to check a message from friends or family you can see the fûcking thing lit up.

I’ve no interest as to who is on what time zone. Not my problem. If I’m paid to be working Tuesday - Saturday 10.00 - 18.00...I’m ready to commence work at 10.00 and I’m walking out the door at 18.00, work phone off.

I’m flexible to a point when I’m at work, flexible to NO point when I leave. Time is mine, all mine, for my family, friends , and the enjoyment of life, exclusively. Without disturbances, distractions or invasions....

+1

I had an experience a few years ago when I worked for an Irish company. I used get the odd phone call or text regards work on my personal mobile and I used facilitate my employer.

At the time I had a considerable amount of time built up in lieu (a few weeks) as there was no over time available in the company. I was told to take a week off and my employer chose what week as it was quiet. I didn't protest too much as I needed the break.

Then toward the latter stage of my week off my work mobile started ringing (it was my then manager) Since I was off and he knew I was off (as he was the one who told me to take leave) I didn't answer it. The work phone rang a few more times and received a txt, neither of which responded to. A hour or so later my personal mobile starts ringing ( again my former manager).Didn't answer it as I partly guessed he would have the cheek to ring my personal mobile when I couldn't be reached on my work phone.


Monday morning rolls around and he asked for a word. Started giving me an informal reprimand regards me not answering his calls or txt. I responded by saying I'm not paid to be on call and either I was off the week prior or I wasn't which was it.At that point I said I would lodge a complaint with HR and i would not be providing any out of hours support in future like I had done in the past. He had a face on him as that wasn't how he expected the conversation to go.

Turns out they wanted me in Germany on Monday morning and I would have had to pick up equipment before I left for the flight which would have probably been on Sunday to start work at 8am German time.

Tell me how

Strumms wrote: »

Nope. Give and take works when it is a two way street... what employers will want in this situation as regards flexibility and give and take is a one way street... a whole team on call on to them on an app, outside of their working hours, them from time to time contributing and working by giving input on work issues via the app while not getting paid to do so... and the invasiveness of their phone with regularity receiving messages, muted or otherwise... go to check a message from friends or family you can see the fûcking thing lit up.

I’ve no interest as to who is on what time zone. Not my problem. If I’m paid to be working Tuesday - Saturday 10.00 - 18.00...I’m ready to commence work at 10.00 and I’m walking out the door at 18.00, work phone off.

I’m flexible to a point when I’m at work, flexible to NO point when I leave. Time is mine, all mine, for my family, friends , and the enjoyment of life, exclusively. Without disturbances, distractions or invasions....

I presume you never use your work phone to talk someone on a personal matter, never use google during work hours, shut down all non work related conversations immediately, never come in a few minutes late or leave a few minutes early to bear traffic, take only the permitted time for breaks, never bring a work pen or folder or notepad home.

mr_edge_to_you

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

From a company perspective, in the era of GDPR I don't know why any company would want staff using their own phone and number. Its a recipe for disaster, I've seen it first hand.

My most hated 4 letters GDPR, I wish it would just disappear.

I have access to everything at work from my personal devices, if I need to do something for work and my personal laptop is within reach I will just use it as I have everything on it thats on my work one - full file access, email, calenders, software packages etc. Was the same in my previous job, in fact I didn't like the work laptop they gave me so I used my personal one for all my work.

I must live a in a different world to many here as the a lot of what people do would annoy me if I had to do it, I prefer a smooth co-existence between work and home and hate all that crap with "work devices" and "personal devices" and no cross over, pretending your work disappeared at 6 just because you went home, refusing to answer an email or text and so on. It's just part of life to me and I'm very gland to have large flexibility in return with being able to do personal stuff on work time, WFH when I want (prior to covid) etc etc.

Maybe it’s being from a farming background where work and life are so close and you are never really able to forget about it that influences how I look at off farm work too. I give up a lot of my free time working on the farm at home, I very much enjoy it though.

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

+1

I had an experience a few years ago when I worked for an Irish company. I used get the odd phone call or text regards work on my personal mobile and I used facilitate my employer.

At the time I had a considerable amount of time built up in lieu (a few weeks) as there was no over time available in the company. I was told to take a week off and my employer chose what week as it was quiet. I didn't protest too much as I needed the break.

Then toward the latter stage of my week off my work mobile started ringing (it was my then manager) Since I was off and he knew I was off (as he was the one who told me to take leave) I didn't answer it. The work phone rang a few more times and received a txt neither of which responded to. A hour or so later my personal mobile starts ringing ( again my former manager).Didn't answer it as I partly guessed he would have the cheek to ring my personal mobile when I couldn't be reached on my work phone.


Monday morning rolls around and he asked for a word. Started giving me an informal reprimand regards me not answering his calls or txt. I responded by saying I'm it paid to be on call and either I was off the week prior or I wasn't which was it.At that point I said I would lodge a complaint with HR and i would not be providing any out of hours support in future like I had done in the past. He had a face on him as that wasn't how he expected the conversation to go.

Turns out they wanted me in Germany on Monday morning and I would and had to pick up equipment before I left for the flight which would have probably been on Sunday to start work at 8am German time.

Exceptionally poor form imo not to answer the phone like that, I bet you felt a right fool when it turned out they were contacting you to tell you to catch a flight.

I just could not act like that but then again I feel a bit of responsibility towards my job and company I work for. Were I your manager I would never forget that incident and it would definitely influence decisions regarding promotions etc.

Chaos Black

Personally I am in a work WhatsApp group and have no issue with it as a means to communicate something to the team fast outside of normal work email/phone. Like other groups you can mute it if more general chit chat starts happening. Generally speaking most seem to treat it like work emails where I am and so nothing inappropriate or anything gets posted.

I don’t mind my direct managers texting my personal phone or calling it as I generally know they will only do it outside of work hours if important. Same with me if I have to contact them.

Only issue I’ve ever had is someone mistaking my personal mobile as a work phone and calling me from abroad re work matters. I politely corrected them and used the work phone to call them back.

When I worked in retail it was a different story, managers would call you all the time re work. Not very professional.

Parsnips

Its easier said than done.
The OP is worried about leaving the group outright incase of repercussions.
ignoring a text is not really great for anyones anxiety now is it. Eeven if its muted or on silent.. we all still know its there.
only 2 options.....

Inform the job you are leaving the group for all reasons spoke about above ( mind is at ease)
or
Just leave the group and see what is said. My guess is absolutely nothing will be said. but ( Forgiveness is often easier to get than permission ) especially as the company are 100% over the line.

Strumms

Mr.S wrote: »

I think you're overthinking it. Stop looking at your work apps after you stopped working, simple.

Yes I agree you should be issued a work phone if you need it. To be part of a few WhatsApps groups? No.

Also it's a pain carrying two phones.

It’s really not an issue at least I didn’t find it an issue having two phones, got two pockets, it’s easy.

WhatsApp isn’t a work app. There isn’t really any overthinking it.

Work and...family / personal life should be separate.

I don’t mind a boss calling me / texting or WhatsApping outside of work to ask me if I can come in early or some ‘specific’ request on the odd occasion.

What I do mind is me and colleagues being forced into an ‘always on’ situation where messages are regularly popping into the app, even if you mute notifications you will be aware as you check your phone as to the fact that ‘work’ is there biting at your ankles and wanting your attention/input.

You are not in work, you shouldn’t be engaging with, thinking about work, that’s working... you work at agreed times and get paid for it...

mr_edge_to_you

Strumms wrote: »

WhatsApp isn’t a work app. There isn’t really any overthinking it.

A gentle reminder that WhatsApp is owned by Facebook. Cheers!

crisco10

Gael Round Against wrote: »

Turns out they wanted me in Germany on Monday morning and I would and had to pick up equipment before I left for the flight which would have probably been on Sunday to start work at 8am German time.

Exceptionally poor form imo not to answer the phone like that, I bet you felt a right fool when it turned out they were contacting you to tell you to catch a flight.

I just could not act like that but then again I feel a bit of responsibility towards my job and company I work for. Were I your manager I would never forget that incident and it would definitely influence decisions regarding promotions etc.

Think there is a middle ground here, not sure it was exceptionally poor form. But the manager could have tried texting or something else with the brief summary of what was required re Monday morning.

I have had 2 phones for 10+ years now and manage them just fine. When I'm off work, I "abandon" my work phone in the hall or something. If I'm on leave I'll probably check once a day or so. And let people know if they need me to drop me a text with the info and I'll call back when I can (and want to).
It's amazing how often someone texts me, and by the time I call back the problem is either gone, or significantly improved.

The other advantage of 2 phones is that when you change company, you don't lose your number and have to give a new one to your friends and family.

crisco10

crisco10 wrote: »

The other advantage of 2 phones is that when you change company, you don't lose your number and have to give a new one to your friends and family.

When I say I use my personal phone, I really mean my own phone that I pay the bill on. It's nothing to do with work so I would not have to change number.

Unlimited calls, texts and data is 9.99 a month and I don't use the phone a lot of work anyway. If I had to make an expensive international call or needed to use it roaming outside eu I can put in an expense claim for the amount.

Its sort of an irrelevant conversation really as my work don't provide anyone with phones or sim cards so if I refused to use my phone for work it would be hassle for me and count against long running agreement to work from home regularly etc.

antix80

Gael Round Against wrote: »

If I had to make an expensive international call or needed to use it roaming outside eu I can put in an expense claim for the amount.

Its sort of an irrelevant conversation really as my work don't provide anyone with phones or sim cards so if I refused to use my phone for work it would be hassle for me and count against long running agreement to work from home regularly etc.

It's amazing they'll allow you to put in an expense claim for roaming and international calls, but not a €5 sim card in a €20 phone. Strange world!

Just messing. It suits some people and not others. It depends on the person and the job.

antix80

antix80 wrote: »

It's amazing they'll allow you to put in an expense claim for roaming and international calls, but not a €5 sim card in a €20 phone. Strange world!.

It would be exceptionally rare, think I’ve only had to do it once. The vast majority of communications is email or zoom etc. I would get an occasional call to my phone (mostly from suppliers etc) but I would make very few work calls on the phone.

antix80

Gael Round Against wrote: »

It would be exceptionally rare, think I’ve only had to do it once. The vast majority of communications is email or zoom etc. I would get an occasional call to my phone (mostly from suppliers etc) but I would make very few work calls on the phone.

That's why it suits you.
Imagine if you were in a US company where european staff contact you from 9-5 and US staff contact you between the hours 1pm-9pm or 10pm... and your number was on the intranet for all to see and share.

antix80

antix80 wrote: »

That's why it suits you.
Imagine if you were in a US company where european staff contact you from 9-5 and US staff contact you between the hours 1pm-9pm or 10pm... and your number was on the intranet for all to see and share.

Look no doubt it wouldn't suit everyone, I’m more pushing back a bit against the “absolutely no way, no how would I ever even dream of using a personal device for work” type opinions from some posters.

salonfire

Strumms wrote: »

I’ve no interest as to who is on what time zone. Not my problem. If I’m paid to be working Tuesday - Saturday 10.00 - 18.00...I’m ready to commence work at 10.00 and I’m walking out the door at 18.00, work phone off.

If I was your employer, I would turn your attitude back on you. I would not take any calls in the morning from you saying you were running late or had a sick child to mind.

I would expect you sat at your desk prim and proper at 9am in the morning, no excuses and any tardiness for whatever reason, I'd throw the book at you.

Stinking attitude to have.

Parsnips

salonfire wrote: »

If I was your employer, I would turn your attitude back on you. I would not take any calls in the morning from you saying you were running late or had a sick child to mind.

I would expect you sat at your desk prim and proper at 9am in the morning, no excuses and any tardiness for whatever reason, I'd throw the book at you.

Stinking attitude to have.

Either your a troll looking for a reaction or your a Muppet that doesnt realise if your a manager in anyway its youir job to take calls from staff for any reason during work hours. you have a duty of care to be flexible with staff when warranted and also not to interfere in there time off ( rest period).
Yes P!ss takers are to be weeded out and disciplined but I think you need to re-evaluate what the difference between Work and Life is.
Yes there has to be a little bit of flexibilty on the employee like clock watching is a serious No No for me.

Strumms

salonfire wrote: »

If I was your employer, I would turn your attitude back on you. I would not take any calls in the morning from you saying you were running late or had a sick child to mind.

I would expect you sat at your desk prim and proper at 9am in the morning, no excuses and any tardiness for whatever reason, I'd throw the book at you.

Stinking attitude to have.

You wouldn’t be doing your job then, and directly opening yourself to sanction when I go over your head.

If you are being paid and it’s your job to take phone calls from your employees when calling in sick and you refuse.... you are going to end up in a world of difficulty, a written warning or most likely demotion or worse... your job to take sick / late calls, you are taking them.

Any manager using passive aggressive language to employees or colleagues like ‘throwing the book’ need to be introduced to a social welfare Q. Of no use to anybody.

Parsnips

Strumms wrote: »

You wouldn’t be doing your job then, and directly opening yourself to sanction when I go over your head.

If you are being paid and it’s your job to take phone calls from your employees when calling in sick and you refuse.... you are going to end up in a world of difficulty, a written warning or most likely demotion or worse... your job to take sick / late calls, you are taking them.

.. Is there an echo in here.

Wanderer78

Syrinx9 wrote:

Hi, a friend of mine who works in education was added to a school staff WhatsApp group. When the lockdown began the amounts of texting increased tenfold and she found it difficult to cope with the constant text alerts, often late at night. We went through all the temporary blocking procedures that we could find online but she ended up temporarily deleting the app. She now feels obliged to reinstall but has mixed feelings about this. Does anyone have any views on this? Or any examples of ways this sort of communication is dealt with in Ireland?

Ah they ll ring her if needs be, and turn off the damn phone at night

dennyk

salonfire wrote: »

If I was your employer, I would turn your attitude back on you. I would not take any calls in the morning from you saying you were running late or had a sick child to mind.

I would expect you sat at your desk prim and proper at 9am in the morning, no excuses and any tardiness for whatever reason, I'd throw the book at you.

Stinking attitude to have.

It really requires all parties involved to be reasonable about such things. I've worked at places where after-hours contact only happened in true emergency situations (like "we're gonna be out of business by Monday and you're the only one who can fix whatever's wrong" emergencies) and employees' personal time was always respected.

I've also worked at places where everyone was expected to be on call 24x7x365 no matter what they were doing, everyone was required to work multiple hours at least every other weekend on average and often overnights as well (in addition to their normal 8-5 shifts; no comp time at that place) and to be reachable at all times even while on holiday; I remember one coworker once had to log in and do work while getting a tattoo on their vacation to Florida. I flat refused to bring my phone or laptop with me on my own holidays (all ten whole days of them that I got per year!), and the only reason I wasn't fired for it was because my boss liked me (and because I did damn good work when I wasn't out on vacation...). Eventually they got so in the habit of us being available all the time that when they decided they were going to become a true 24x7 operation, instead of hiring more staff or going with some outsourced company to cover the additional hours, they just gave our small group of sysadmins a rotating shift where we had to watch our company's IT monitors for 16 hours a day 7 days a week in real time and respond instantly to any alerts that came up (in addition to doing our normal jobs, of course).

At the former sort of place, you can afford to relax a bit and give a little from time to time when it comes to out-of-work communications or even the odd bit of overtime or logging in to check on something on the weekend or whatnot. At places like the latter, you really have to be the one to set very firm boundaries from the outset, because if you give an employer like that an inch, they will take a mile and then some. I unfortunately didn't do that nearly as much as I should have at that job, and ended up getting really burned out after a few years due to the constant work and stress without any breaks.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

You wouldn’t be doing your job then, and directly opening yourself to sanction when I go over your head.

If you are being paid and it’s your job to take phone calls from your employees when calling in sick and you refuse.... you are going to end up in a world of difficulty, a written warning or most likely demotion or worse... your job to take sick / late calls, you are taking them.

Any manager using passive aggressive language to employees or colleagues like ‘throwing the book’ need to be introduced to a social welfare Q. Of no use to anybody.

Your making the very big assumption that the “person above their head” is going to side with you and not your manager who may be a friend with them, hell your boss might not even have a direct superior if they are very senior or the owner of the company. What would you do them?