Workplace group texting

Syrinx9

Hi, a friend of mine who works in education was added to a school staff WhatsApp group. When the lockdown began the amounts of texting increased tenfold and she found it difficult to cope with the constant text alerts, often late at night. We went through all the temporary blocking procedures that we could find online but she ended up temporarily deleting the app. She now feels obliged to reinstall but has mixed feelings about this. Does anyone have any views on this? Or any examples of ways this sort of communication is dealt with in Ireland?

Gemancy

Why doesn’t she just mute notifications and check in on it daily/weekly or whatever? Or clarify with principal that she would rather any work assigned to her be communicated via email or some other formally agreed manner? Not sure from your post if it’s the actual messages just landing or the content of the messages are the problem. Or just do what she did and exit the group and that’s the end of that. I doubt there is a requirement to be part of a whats app group.

Limpy

I block my messages and auto download ect. Unless it's an old phone it should be easy to hide messages. Just Google the model and how to hide WhatsApps messages.

Syrinx9

Syrinx9 wrote: »

Hi, a friend of mine who works in education was added to a school staff WhatsApp group. When the lockdown began the amounts of texting increased tenfold and, as she is a naturally nervous person, she found it difficult to cope with the constant text alerts, often late at night. We went through all the temporary blocking procedures that we could find online but she ended up temporarily deleting the app. She now feels obliged to reinstall but has mixed feelings about this. Does anyone have any views on this? Or any examples of ways this sort of communication is dealt with in Ireland?

I presume it is dealt with in Ireland the same way it is dealt with everywhere else in the World, if you don’t want to be in a WhatsApp group, you leave the group.

Parsnips

I would have no hesitation in dropping out of that group. not only is it stressful enough in work but having to think about it even when your off is not on IMO. Very unproffessional and I would hazard a guess that it was setup by someone that is a social media addict and sufferes with severe FOMO.
My Compnay wanted us to link our Email to our own smart phones. NO WAY Hosé.
She should not worry about it at all.

antix80

When work asked for my number for a group chat I set up whatsapp on my work phone and gave them that number. My work phone enters do not disturb at 5.30pm weekdays and leaves do not disturb at 9am work days.

Sim cards are pretty much free and most people have an old android phone with a cracked screen lying around.

Strumms

Not in a million years would I use my personal phone for work, especially in the manner as described.

In my last job, they took all our work mobile phones from us when the recession hit.

I knew exactly how things were going to run. The phones were imperative to the running of the department as we spent about 35% of each shift away out of the office...

As expected calls started coming into our personal mobile phones. “Sorry, just a quick one”... followed by them trying to set up a department WhatsApp group on our personal phones ..I warned the others but with fellas worrying about mortgages, car loans and one with a sick kid there was a hesitancy to think of doing the right thing..

It got old when you’d be at home eating lunch or dinner and you’d get a WhatsApp from the manager or supervisor “guys, just a quick one, did anyone remember if the end of day reports included the damage estimates ?” Looking at the fûcking report (you’ve been sent it) it will tell you... it was a ruse for the manager to instigate an after hours discussion so he'd be ready for his 9.30 with senior managers the following day and rather than the report he preferred getting all the nuances from us directly.

It all ended when a senior team member getting out of the car in his driveway, dropped his phone and smashed the screen on receiving a message...he and WE dropped the app... an investigation ensued but ended as we informed them we’d be collectively escalating via hr and senior management ANY attempt to coerce us into using personal devices for intra work / department communications.

Parsnips

Fairplay.
Companies are really pushing the boundaries now.
Last year it was.. " Oh we have to wait to see how Brexit works out, need to protect the company" etc
Now its ..."your lucky to have a job with corona" . Its like employers are doing the lad on Min wage a favour for getting the Government top pay half his wages while he is working as hard as he ever has. Bloody Irritating to say the least.

I had to work very hard to stop being the clown that spoke out on everyones behalf. Nobody knows what solidarity is anymore.

Im not on Min wage BTW

Kia_Kaha

antix80 wrote: »

When work asked for my number for a group chat I set up whatsapp on my work phone and gave them that number. My work phone enters do not disturb at 5.30pm weekdays and leaves do not disturb at 9am work days.

Sim cards are pretty much free and most people have an old android phone with a cracked screen lying around.

100% agree with this, she should use a separate work phone, turn it off / do not disturb mode at 5:30 pm.

Tell me how

Whats App is literally a 4 step process to stop notifications coming through. (Android Version 2.20.197.20)

1 - Open the relevant chat
2 - Click on 3 dots on Top right of screen
3 - Click on Mute Notification
4 - Select 1 Year

That's it.

I'm a bit perplexed how someone managed to delete the App when trying to do the above.

sweet_trip

Tell me how wrote: »

Whats App is literally a 4 step process to stop notifications coming through. (Android Version 2.20.197.20)

1 - Open the relevant chat
2 - Click on 3 dots on Top right of screen
3 - Click on Mute Notification
4 - Select 1 Year

That's it.

I'm a bit perplexed how someone managed to delete the App when trying to do the above.

This. Just mute all the chat groups.
Nothing worse than having to listen to stupid whatsapp notifications going non stop.

Especially when I'm not at work, I do not want to hear about whatever nonsense is discussed in them.

Phone notifications in general are such a nuisance. Beeping and vibrating every few minutes screaming for your attention.
I genuinely believe they're harmful to your health. People cannot put their phones down and have to jump to look at whatever nonsense it's beeping about.

They make people anxious.

Strumms

Tell me how wrote: »

Whats App is literally a 4 step process to stop notifications coming through. (Android Version 2.20.197.20)

1 - Open the relevant chat
2 - Click on 3 dots on Top right of screen
3 - Click on Mute Notification
4 - Select 1 Year

That's it.

I'm a bit perplexed how someone managed to delete the App when trying to do the above.

That’s a good one, fair play.

GalwayGrrrrrl

For my work we have three what’sapp groups - one for professional communication which is only used during daytime. One for jokes and chit chat (not all are in that) and one for Corona talk which was set up for those planning workload/policies (I’m not in that as it’s too stressful to be overloaded with corona chat all the time). All are on silent so I choose the time to look at it. Some people don’t use any of the groups and that’s okay.

I use my personal phone for work all the time, I use my personal laptop for work at times (and I use my work laptop for personal things a lot too) and I am in the work WhatsApp group with all my team at work which we use for certain work related things and also some fun and banter etc. I’d hate having to me messing around with two phones also.

None of this bothers me in the least, some of the effort people put in to get bothered about this stuff is something I’ll never understand.

OMM 0000

She needs some self control to only look at the texts during her work time.

Story time:

I have a team of programmers. When bugs are logged, an e-mail is sent to the programmer. Also, we use slack (chat app) to discuss issues.

One of the programmers went on holiday. I discover he's working on his holiday. I tell him to stop. He says he can't, he can see a bug has been logged against his code. I tell him to stop looking at the bug reports, stop programming, and enjoy your holiday. He says he can't. He then starts replying to the messages on Slack. He says this is disturbing his holiday. I tell him to stop looking at the slack messages. He says but he's getting notifications. I tell him to turn them off. He says he doesn't want to, as he wants to see the messages.

I tell him again, he's on holiday, stop working, stop looking at emails and messages, turn off notifications or ignore them. He says he can't.

That was three years ago. To this day he still tells people I forced him to work during his holiday.

So, my message to you OP, is stop looking at messages outside your work hours. If you continue to do so, you shouldn't blame your employer.

Treppen

OMM 0000 wrote: »

She needs some self control to only look at the texts during her work time.

Story time:

I have a team of programmers. When bugs are logged, an e-mail is sent to the programmer. Also, we use slack (chat app) to discuss issues.

One of the programmers went on holiday. I discover he's working on his holiday. I tell him to stop. He says he can't, he can see a bug has been logged against his code. I tell him to stop looking at the bug reports, stop programming, and enjoy your holiday. He says he can't. He then starts replying to the messages on Slack. He says this is disturbing his holiday. I tell him to stop looking at the slack messages. He says but he's getting notifications. I tell him to turn them off. He says he doesn't want to, as he wants to see the messages.

I tell him again, he's on holiday, stop working, stop looking at emails and messages, turn off notifications or ignore them. He says he can't.

That was three years ago. To this day he still tells people I forced him to work during his holiday.

So, my message to you OP, is stop looking at messages outside your work hours. If you continue to do so, you shouldn't blame your employer.

That's all well and good but some principals and schools are very unprofessional, also contracts starting out in teaching are mostly temporary low hours. So if they say jump you have to say how high. So in a similar vein if you feck up and say you didn't get the notification then that's your fault for not 'being part of the team'. Our school the principal is very good and has requested there be zero whatsapp for work related issues. Also once school bell is over then that's it, it can wait till tomorrow. You'll get a gentle reminder if you send emails out of hours although if it is urgent then that's instantly forgiven. We've a timed email function so you can send the email to come in at 8am next morning.

Simple solution OP... Get throwaway SIM and get registered on the group... Then have some fun with the pictures you post.

Also GDPR Yadda Yadda , print off a screen shot of some of the best conversations and post them on the teachers doors outside their classrooms, they'll get the message pretty quick :pac:

I think there was a few cases with GAA teams where parents got other parents numbers from the WhatsApp group and started acting the maggot etc.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-the-gaa-has-a-big-problem-with-whatsapp-1.4165494

Show this to the principal and they'll stop pretty quick once there's mention of legality or GDPR.

irelandrover

Gael Round Against wrote: »

I use my personal phone for work all the time, I use my personal laptop for work at times (and I use my work laptop for personal things a lot too) and I am in the work WhatsApp group with all my team at work which we use for certain work related things and also some fun and banter etc. I’d hate having to me messing around with two phones also.

None of this bothers me in the least, some of the effort people put in to get bothered about this stuff is something I’ll never understand.

There's no way i'd use my personal number for work. A lot of people would have no issues calling you on your days off. Being able to turn off the work phone is fantastic.

I don't mess around with two phones either as I just use a dual sim phone.

lalababa

Tis a slippery slope to what it's like in yankyland. Live to work, Mammon's call. Or in this case ping.

irelandrover

irelandrover wrote: »

There's no way i'd use my personal number for work. A lot of people would have no issues calling you on your days off. Being able to turn off the work phone is fantastic.

I don't mess around with two phones either as I just use a dual sim phone.

If I get a call or text when I'm off then its important and I have no issue answering. In fact I always specifically say to give me a call/text if something urgent comes up when I'm away. Its vastly less hassle to sort something quickly when needed than arrive back to some sh*t show on a project.

I always keep an eye on emails when off also, I might stop them being pushed automatically to the phone and notifying me but I will flick though them most evenings on the phone or laptop if I have it out to see what has been going on.

Strumms

OMM 0000 wrote: »

She needs some self control to only look at the texts during her work time.

Story time:

I have a team of programmers. When bugs are logged, an e-mail is sent to the programmer. Also, we use slack (chat app) to discuss issues.

One of the programmers went on holiday. I discover he's working on his holiday. I tell him to stop. He says he can't, he can see a bug has been logged against his code. I tell him to stop looking at the bug reports, stop programming, and enjoy your holiday. He says he can't. He then starts replying to the messages on Slack. He says this is disturbing his holiday. I tell him to stop looking at the slack messages. He says but he's getting notifications. I tell him to turn them off. He says he doesn't want to, as

So, my message to you OP, is stop looking at messages outside your work hours. If you continue to do so, you shouldn't blame your employer.

They should blame the employer. The employer needs self control and step back from trying to obtain an ‘in’ to the employees personal time / life..

The employer set up the group with the mind to establish a communications pathway to and between staff via their PERSONAL devices when they are NOT at work and NOT on shift. There is no debate about this.

Otherwise the employer is satisfied using the work email ie. programmingteamA@myjob.ie and each member of staff pick up and deal with the work communications and commitments when they are working, at work, not when they are making lunch, not when they are taking kids to basketball, not when they are fixing their table in the garage or just chatting on the phone with a sibling or enjoy a glass of wine with their OH and Netflix.

OMM 0000

Strumms wrote: »

They should blame the employer. The employer needs self control and step back from trying to obtain an ‘in’ to the employees personal time / life..

The employer set up the group with the mind to establish a communications pathway to and between staff via their PERSONAL devices when they are NOT at work and NOT on shift. There is no debate about this.

Otherwise the employer is satisfied using the work email ie. programmingteamA@myjob.ie and each member of staff pick up and deal with the work communications and commitments when they are working, at work, not when they are making lunch, not when they are taking kids to basketball, not when they are fixing their table in the garage or just chatting on the phone with a sibling or enjoy a glass of wine with their OH and Netflix.

I would like to agree with you but the world has changed. This sort of thing (WhatsApp groups) is fairly normal now. I think it would take legislation to stop it.

Strumms

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I would like to agree with you but the world has changed. This sort of thing (WhatsApp groups) is fairly normal now. I think it would take legislation to stop it.

It could take legislative action to stop it but I think employees need to be proactive and loyal to one another and FOR one another. If a team stick together and say at a meeting... “ we are deleting ourselves from the WhatsApp group, we feel it is unnecessary and intrusive and is having a distractingly negative impact on our personal and family lives away from the office “

Then again, if my experience is anything to go by, to get all team members to ‘row in’ behind a tactic like this isn’t always possible... Enda is thinking about promotion down the line and not willing to rock the boat, Sarah has been lobbying for a shîft change so she can get back to football in the evening, not willing to rock the boat, Stephen is on a final written, he doesn’t want to be seen making a stand and risking just even incurring any negative publicity in his managers thinking...

But if there is a leadership voice amongst the employee group... get it vocalizing and get your employers and work out of your personal lives, devices, thinking and space... when you clock IN.. you are IN work.... clock OUT... OUT and away, OUT from the building, OUT from your thinking.

Strumms

Mr.S wrote: »

Two sides usually to this:

1 - A WhatsApp group with staff for casual things, after work drinks / events / news etc. If the notifications annoy you, just mute the group and drop in and out when you want to. Or just leave the group.

2 - A group for Work related messages. Should only be used in a work setting and not for casual chat. If someone is chatting about non-operational work related things, tell them to stop. When you're not working, mute this group unless you need to be on call.

If you use your personal phone for work related things, 100% turn off all work app notifications when you finish. Come 5:30 my MS Teams and Outlook notifications turn off, and won't start till 9am the next day. Bliss. Same WhatsApp, I just mute the conversations permanently.

You need to be on call, let them give you a work phone, roster you and pay you.. I’m not bothering trying to remember what’s muted, what’s not muted, can they see I’ve seen a message when I go to look at another one ?... also if you go to txt a friend and just ‘see’.... “lads, problem with the numbers in the report, can you give me a quick call”. You eventually see the group lighting up, worrying as you compiled some of the info yourself, you get dragged into a 40 minute back and forth that you could do without... somebody screwed up yes, not you, but it’s you trouble shooting, your other half sat in front of the tv, Netflix on pause, Nachos cold, atmosphere colder...you stupider for bothering your hole .... and thanks to WhatsApp, sorry, WORK WhatsApp you are on call, never wanted to be, agreed to be and not getting a red cent and you are fûcking over your OH who just wanted to relax with YOU , Netflix and a plate of nachos and some wine.

Delete work from your personal life. All avenues to them / for them closed off....

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

You need to be on call, let them give you a work phone, roster you and pay you.. I’m not bothering trying to remember what’s muted, what’s not muted, can they see I’ve seen a message when I go to look at another one ?... also if you go to txt a friend and just ‘see’.... “lads, problem with the numbers in the report, can you give me a quick call”. You eventually see the group lighting up, worrying as you compiled some of the info yourself, you get dragged into a 40 minute back and forth that you could do without... somebody screwed up yes, not you, but it’s you trouble shooting, your other half sat in front of the tv, Netflix on pause, Nachos cold, atmosphere colder...you stupider for bothering your hole .... and thanks to WhatsApp, sorry, WORK WhatsApp you are on call, never wanted to be, agreed to be and not getting a red cent and you are fûcking over your OH who just wanted to relax with YOU , Netflix and a plate of nachos and some wine.

Delete work from your personal life. All avenues to them / for them closed off....

I think this is totally over the top to be honest. There needs to be give and take and this whole “forget work from 5:30” just doesn’t work in many modern jobs with deadlines, cross time zones etc etc. On the other hand I am happy to have flexibility in my direction too and that generally goes hand in hand with being willing to be flexible back.

The whole clock in clock out idea is totally outdated.

If I was offered a work phone I’d take the device (once it was a better iPhone than the one I have) but I’d refuse a work sim as I’d rather just have one phone/phone number for everything.

antix80

Gael Round Against wrote: »

If I was offered a work phone I’d take the device (once it was a better iPhone than the one I have) but I’d refuse a work sim as I’d rather just have one phone/phone number for everything.

More fool you.

Strumms

Gael Round Against wrote: »

I think this is totally over the top to be honest. There needs to be give and take and this whole “forget work from 5:30” just doesn’t work in many modern jobs with deadlines, cross time zones etc etc. On the other hand I am happy to have flexibility in my direction too and that generally goes hand in hand with being willing to be flexible back.

The whole clock in clock out idea is totally outdated.

If I was offered a work phone I’d take the device (once it was a better iPhone than the one I have) but I’d refuse a work sim as I’d rather just have one phone/phone number for everything.

Nope. Give and take works when it is a two way street... what employers will want in this situation as regards flexibility and give and take is a one way street... a whole team on call on to them on an app, outside of their working hours, them from time to time contributing and working by giving input on work issues via the app while not getting paid to do so... and the invasiveness of their phone with regularity receiving messages, muted or otherwise... go to check a message from friends or family you can see the fûcking thing lit up.

I’ve no interest as to who is on what time zone. Not my problem. If I’m paid to be working Tuesday - Saturday 10.00 - 18.00...I’m ready to commence work at 10.00 and I’m walking out the door at 18.00, work phone off.

I’m flexible to a point when I’m at work, flexible to NO point when I leave. Time is mine, all mine, for my family, friends , and the enjoyment of life, exclusively. Without disturbances, distractions or invasions....

frozenfrozen

dot

irelandrover

Gael Round Against wrote: »

I think this is totally over the top to be honest. There needs to be give and take and this whole “forget work from 5:30” just doesn’t work in many modern jobs with deadlines, cross time zones etc etc. On the other hand I am happy to have flexibility in my direction too and that generally goes hand in hand with being willing to be flexible back.

The whole clock in clock out idea is totally outdated.

If I was offered a work phone I’d take the device (once it was a better iPhone than the one I have) but I’d refuse a work sim as I’d rather just have one phone/phone number for everything.

I'm very flexible in work. If i know there is going to be an issue or a chance of an issue then i will leave my work phone on or work longer hours. But that's a choice i get to make. If work had my personal number then it removes my flexibility as i cant turn off my phone.

You say you don't see the issue but you clearly have never had a project lead ring you with stupid questions when you are on your holiday. Staying connected to work all the time is not be healthy for you, so checking work emails every day when you are off means you have no chance to disconnect.

Clocking in/ out is not an outdated system. Id state only workaholics and dossers think so. id state that an 8 hour work day no matter what is outdated but clocking in and out with flexi time is a very good way of ensuring you dont work too much.

mr_edge_to_you

Its a tricky one. I've never ever used my personal phone for work - if the company want me to be contactable, they can provide me with a phone and dedicated number. I'm more than happy to have 2 phones. At night, my work phone stays in the kitchen next to my car keys. At weekends or holidays, my work phone stays at home or is left in the car - I do check it periodically.

From a company perspective, in the era of GDPR I don't know why any company would want staff using their own phone and number. Its a recipe for disaster, I've seen it first hand.

In the OPs case, I'd be advising the employer that you really don't like using WhatsApp for work purposes. Acknowledge that from time to time you may need to be contacted but compromise by saying "my phone is always on and more than happy to take a call if there's something urgent".

In the last few years, I've been working at very senior positions and accept a certain level of calls outside of regular hours is required. I have always told my managers that if they need to get in touch urgently, just call me on my personal phone (*not text*). To date, that has always been respected.

Strumms

frozenfrozen wrote: »

OP finding it difficult to bring herself to reinstall whatsapp because of being in a work group chat isn't a work issue it's a mental health issue. There are plenty of other threads to talk about only working during work hours. This one is about being upset by being in a group chat

Unless you are a qualified psychologist or somebody with an equivalent qualification you have no place accusing somebody of having a mental health issue.

Also the thread is very much on topic, until you started to throw in your amateur diagnosis. Not helpful. Disgraceful actually,

antix80

Strumms wrote: »

Disgraceful actually,

oh pipe down

Honestly, no need for shaming.. someone just has an opinion is all.

Strumms

antix80 wrote: »

oh pipe down :rolleyes:

No thanks but thanks for your contribution :rolleyes:

In their opinion the person the op talks about has a ‘mental health issue’. To believe that would require a diagnosis from a qualified professional.

mirrorwall14

Funnily enough this came up in our school this week too. There has been a gradual creep on more and more use of our personal phone numbers and phones being compulsory so that you could be text about absences/cover etc. None of it was intentional but it has spiralled into large subject whatsapp groups, year head/tutor groups, all second year teachers etc. It’s bonkers in my opinion and the platform is highly unsuitable for using for a school. It was flagged so we’ll see what happens. We all have school email, that’s what it’s for. If someone isn’t checking their emails, that’s management problem in my opinion. Or we need slack or something but I shouldn’t need to be receiving massive amounts of WhatsApps on a personal device

Treppen

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I would like to agree with you but the world has changed. This sort of thing (WhatsApp groups) is fairly normal now. I think it would take legislation to stop it.

WhatsApp group for work isn't really normal.

GDPR legislation is putting a halt to it. https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0128/1111512-gaa-urges-clubs-to-avoid-whatsapp-due-to-gdpr-concerns/

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

Nope. Give and take works when it is a two way street... what employers will want in this situation as regards flexibility and give and take is a one way street... a whole team on call on to them on an app, outside of their working hours, them from time to time contributing and working by giving input on work issues via the app while not getting paid to do so... and the invasiveness of their phone with regularity receiving messages, muted or otherwise... go to check a message from friends or family you can see the fûcking thing lit up.

I’ve no interest as to who is on what time zone. Not my problem. If I’m paid to be working Tuesday - Saturday 10.00 - 18.00...I’m ready to commence work at 10.00 and I’m walking out the door at 18.00, work phone off.

I’m flexible to a point when I’m at work, flexible to NO point when I leave. Time is mine, all mine, for my family, friends , and the enjoyment of life, exclusively. Without disturbances, distractions or invasions....

To be honest, I wouldn’t hire someone with that attitude and I wouldn’t have got the job I have or my previous job with that attitude as my contract states I have to be available if needed and won’t be paid extra. This is par for the course in most modern, highly skilled work environments especially if you want to progress to senior positions.

Also the people I work with are friends, I have no issue chatting on the what’s app group with them as it’s 80% non work chat anyway.

Like you say you won’t reply to an email after 6. What happens when you have a doctors appointment? I bet you have to take annual leave etc. If I need to leave work for a few hours I generally just go, if it’s for a few hours I’d probably stick unavailable in the calender so no one arranges a zoom meeting or whatever. That’s just one example of how flexibility works in your favour.

Also I’m here on boards now while working so you know I’m doing personal stuff during work hours so it would be somewhat poor if me to refuse point blank to action something outside of my allotted work hours.

I also have the use of high end devices such as my work laptop worth several thousand for personal use so if something pops up while I’m using it in the evening I don’t mind giving up a few mins.

theteal

Gael Round Against wrote: »

If I was offered a work phone I’d take the device (once it was a better iPhone than the one I have) but I’d refuse a work sim as I’d rather just have one phone/phone number for everything.

A lot of phones can take 2 sims now. On top of that, my work phone is configured for 2 profiles i.e. work and personal. Essentially 2 separate phones in one. Works a treat - although a bit of a pain when you take a photo in the wrong profile with the intention of emailing via the other. Carrying 2 phones get tiresome quickly.

OP, as mentioned several times, it's very easy to mute a whatsapp group.

Our place doesn't use whatsapp anymore. We've gone on to Webex Teams which has a handy feature that enables alerts only when you're mentioned. So with that combined with my fairly standard ooh settings I find unnecessary disturbances very rare.

frozenfrozen

dot

antix80

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Funnily enough this came up in our school this week too. There has been a gradual creep on more and more use of our personal phone numbers and phones being compulsory so that you could be text about absences/cover etc. None of it was intentional but it has spiralled into large subject whatsapp groups, yeah head/tutor groups, all second year teachers etc. It’s bonkers in my opinion and the platform is highly unsuitable for using for a school. It was flagged so we’ll see what happens. We all have school email, that’s what it’s for. If someone isn’t checking their emails, that’s management problem in my opinion. Or we need slack or something but I shouldn’t need to be receiving massive amounts of WhatsApps on a personal device

It's absolutely fine to provide your employer your personal number and there's a variety of good reasons they may need your personal number (building's on fire, don't come in)

They would have no right to add you to a group chat (sharing your number!) without your permission. You also shouldn't use your personal number for work issues between your colleagues or customers.

Strumms

Treppen wrote: »

WhatsApp group for work isn't really normal.

GDPR legislation is putting a halt to it. https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2020/0128/1111512-gaa-urges-clubs-to-avoid-whatsapp-due-to-gdpr-concerns/

Great to see.. NOTHING normal about it. What we are seeing here and from other chancers is the pushing of the agenda of staff being ALWAYS on, ALWAYS contactable, ALWAYS at hand for employers... not good, not happening and soon illegal to try.

Strumms

frozenfrozen wrote: »

Disgraceful? Get some fresh air.

I said it is a mental health issue not she has a mental health issue. The OP has been edited since I first read it and the previous gist was finding it hard to reinstall due to anxiety over the group chat.

You don't have to be an expert to say someone being too anxious to install whatsapp over being in a group chat is more than a work issue.

No interest in your reply so don't bother

The air is plenty fresh here, although not so up in the clouds or up somewhere else that you have a penchant for frequenting... I’ll bother, if I feel like it...

Feeling of anxiety or anxiety disorders are vastly different issues. One mental illness / health related, the other not.

JayRoc

The last time someone I do some work for added me to a whatsapp group "just so we can all share thoughts" I immediately texted her, and the head guy on the team, explaining that I don't do whatsapp groups (for all the reasons already covered here) and left the group.

I understand the politics of leaving a group you are already in can be more difficult, so in order to avoid the problem coming up again I activated a setting on my phone that means I cannot be added to one without agreeing first.

It also means you avoid the dross that is the PTA/football team/etc group. I always say if it's important enough for me to know, just contact me directly. It never is

nogoodnamesleft

Strumms wrote: »

Nope. Give and take works when it is a two way street... what employers will want in this situation as regards flexibility and give and take is a one way street... a whole team on call on to them on an app, outside of their working hours, them from time to time contributing and working by giving input on work issues via the app while not getting paid to do so... and the invasiveness of their phone with regularity receiving messages, muted or otherwise... go to check a message from friends or family you can see the fûcking thing lit up.

I’ve no interest as to who is on what time zone. Not my problem. If I’m paid to be working Tuesday - Saturday 10.00 - 18.00...I’m ready to commence work at 10.00 and I’m walking out the door at 18.00, work phone off.

I’m flexible to a point when I’m at work, flexible to NO point when I leave. Time is mine, all mine, for my family, friends , and the enjoyment of life, exclusively. Without disturbances, distractions or invasions....

+1

I had an experience a few years ago when I worked for an Irish company. I used get the odd phone call or text regards work on my personal mobile and I used facilitate my employer.

At the time I had a considerable amount of time built up in lieu (a few weeks) as there was no over time available in the company. I was told to take a week off and my employer chose what week as it was quiet. I didn't protest too much as I needed the break.

Then toward the latter stage of my week off my work mobile started ringing (it was my then manager) Since I was off and he knew I was off (as he was the one who told me to take leave) I didn't answer it. The work phone rang a few more times and received a txt, neither of which responded to. A hour or so later my personal mobile starts ringing ( again my former manager).Didn't answer it as I partly guessed he would have the cheek to ring my personal mobile when I couldn't be reached on my work phone.


Monday morning rolls around and he asked for a word. Started giving me an informal reprimand regards me not answering his calls or txt. I responded by saying I'm not paid to be on call and either I was off the week prior or I wasn't which was it.At that point I said I would lodge a complaint with HR and i would not be providing any out of hours support in future like I had done in the past. He had a face on him as that wasn't how he expected the conversation to go.

Turns out they wanted me in Germany on Monday morning and I would have had to pick up equipment before I left for the flight which would have probably been on Sunday to start work at 8am German time.

Tell me how

Strumms wrote: »

Nope. Give and take works when it is a two way street... what employers will want in this situation as regards flexibility and give and take is a one way street... a whole team on call on to them on an app, outside of their working hours, them from time to time contributing and working by giving input on work issues via the app while not getting paid to do so... and the invasiveness of their phone with regularity receiving messages, muted or otherwise... go to check a message from friends or family you can see the fûcking thing lit up.

I’ve no interest as to who is on what time zone. Not my problem. If I’m paid to be working Tuesday - Saturday 10.00 - 18.00...I’m ready to commence work at 10.00 and I’m walking out the door at 18.00, work phone off.

I’m flexible to a point when I’m at work, flexible to NO point when I leave. Time is mine, all mine, for my family, friends , and the enjoyment of life, exclusively. Without disturbances, distractions or invasions....

I presume you never use your work phone to talk someone on a personal matter, never use google during work hours, shut down all non work related conversations immediately, never come in a few minutes late or leave a few minutes early to bear traffic, take only the permitted time for breaks, never bring a work pen or folder or notepad home.

mr_edge_to_you

mr_edge_to_you wrote: »

From a company perspective, in the era of GDPR I don't know why any company would want staff using their own phone and number. Its a recipe for disaster, I've seen it first hand.

My most hated 4 letters GDPR, I wish it would just disappear.

I have access to everything at work from my personal devices, if I need to do something for work and my personal laptop is within reach I will just use it as I have everything on it thats on my work one - full file access, email, calenders, software packages etc. Was the same in my previous job, in fact I didn't like the work laptop they gave me so I used my personal one for all my work.

I must live a in a different world to many here as the a lot of what people do would annoy me if I had to do it, I prefer a smooth co-existence between work and home and hate all that crap with "work devices" and "personal devices" and no cross over, pretending your work disappeared at 6 just because you went home, refusing to answer an email or text and so on. It's just part of life to me and I'm very gland to have large flexibility in return with being able to do personal stuff on work time, WFH when I want (prior to covid) etc etc.

Maybe it’s being from a farming background where work and life are so close and you are never really able to forget about it that influences how I look at off farm work too. I give up a lot of my free time working on the farm at home, I very much enjoy it though.

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

+1

I had an experience a few years ago when I worked for an Irish company. I used get the odd phone call or text regards work on my personal mobile and I used facilitate my employer.

At the time I had a considerable amount of time built up in lieu (a few weeks) as there was no over time available in the company. I was told to take a week off and my employer chose what week as it was quiet. I didn't protest too much as I needed the break.

Then toward the latter stage of my week off my work mobile started ringing (it was my then manager) Since I was off and he knew I was off (as he was the one who told me to take leave) I didn't answer it. The work phone rang a few more times and received a txt neither of which responded to. A hour or so later my personal mobile starts ringing ( again my former manager).Didn't answer it as I partly guessed he would have the cheek to ring my personal mobile when I couldn't be reached on my work phone.


Monday morning rolls around and he asked for a word. Started giving me an informal reprimand regards me not answering his calls or txt. I responded by saying I'm it paid to be on call and either I was off the week prior or I wasn't which was it.At that point I said I would lodge a complaint with HR and i would not be providing any out of hours support in future like I had done in the past. He had a face on him as that wasn't how he expected the conversation to go.

Turns out they wanted me in Germany on Monday morning and I would and had to pick up equipment before I left for the flight which would have probably been on Sunday to start work at 8am German time.

Exceptionally poor form imo not to answer the phone like that, I bet you felt a right fool when it turned out they were contacting you to tell you to catch a flight.

I just could not act like that but then again I feel a bit of responsibility towards my job and company I work for. Were I your manager I would never forget that incident and it would definitely influence decisions regarding promotions etc.

Chaos Black

Personally I am in a work WhatsApp group and have no issue with it as a means to communicate something to the team fast outside of normal work email/phone. Like other groups you can mute it if more general chit chat starts happening. Generally speaking most seem to treat it like work emails where I am and so nothing inappropriate or anything gets posted.

I don’t mind my direct managers texting my personal phone or calling it as I generally know they will only do it outside of work hours if important. Same with me if I have to contact them.

Only issue I’ve ever had is someone mistaking my personal mobile as a work phone and calling me from abroad re work matters. I politely corrected them and used the work phone to call them back.

When I worked in retail it was a different story, managers would call you all the time re work. Not very professional.

Parsnips

Its easier said than done.
The OP is worried about leaving the group outright incase of repercussions.
ignoring a text is not really great for anyones anxiety now is it. Eeven if its muted or on silent.. we all still know its there.
only 2 options.....

Inform the job you are leaving the group for all reasons spoke about above ( mind is at ease)
or
Just leave the group and see what is said. My guess is absolutely nothing will be said. but ( Forgiveness is often easier to get than permission ) especially as the company are 100% over the line.

Strumms

Mr.S wrote: »

I think you're overthinking it. Stop looking at your work apps after you stopped working, simple.

Yes I agree you should be issued a work phone if you need it. To be part of a few WhatsApps groups? No.

Also it's a pain carrying two phones.

It’s really not an issue at least I didn’t find it an issue having two phones, got two pockets, it’s easy.

WhatsApp isn’t a work app. There isn’t really any overthinking it.

Work and...family / personal life should be separate.

I don’t mind a boss calling me / texting or WhatsApping outside of work to ask me if I can come in early or some ‘specific’ request on the odd occasion.

What I do mind is me and colleagues being forced into an ‘always on’ situation where messages are regularly popping into the app, even if you mute notifications you will be aware as you check your phone as to the fact that ‘work’ is there biting at your ankles and wanting your attention/input.

You are not in work, you shouldn’t be engaging with, thinking about work, that’s working... you work at agreed times and get paid for it...

mr_edge_to_you

Strumms wrote: »

WhatsApp isn’t a work app. There isn’t really any overthinking it.

A gentle reminder that WhatsApp is owned by Facebook. Cheers!

crisco10

Gael Round Against wrote: »

Turns out they wanted me in Germany on Monday morning and I would and had to pick up equipment before I left for the flight which would have probably been on Sunday to start work at 8am German time.

Exceptionally poor form imo not to answer the phone like that, I bet you felt a right fool when it turned out they were contacting you to tell you to catch a flight.

I just could not act like that but then again I feel a bit of responsibility towards my job and company I work for. Were I your manager I would never forget that incident and it would definitely influence decisions regarding promotions etc.

Think there is a middle ground here, not sure it was exceptionally poor form. But the manager could have tried texting or something else with the brief summary of what was required re Monday morning.

I have had 2 phones for 10+ years now and manage them just fine. When I'm off work, I "abandon" my work phone in the hall or something. If I'm on leave I'll probably check once a day or so. And let people know if they need me to drop me a text with the info and I'll call back when I can (and want to).
It's amazing how often someone texts me, and by the time I call back the problem is either gone, or significantly improved.

The other advantage of 2 phones is that when you change company, you don't lose your number and have to give a new one to your friends and family.

crisco10

crisco10 wrote: »

The other advantage of 2 phones is that when you change company, you don't lose your number and have to give a new one to your friends and family.

When I say I use my personal phone, I really mean my own phone that I pay the bill on. It's nothing to do with work so I would not have to change number.

Unlimited calls, texts and data is 9.99 a month and I don't use the phone a lot of work anyway. If I had to make an expensive international call or needed to use it roaming outside eu I can put in an expense claim for the amount.

Its sort of an irrelevant conversation really as my work don't provide anyone with phones or sim cards so if I refused to use my phone for work it would be hassle for me and count against long running agreement to work from home regularly etc.

antix80

Gael Round Against wrote: »

If I had to make an expensive international call or needed to use it roaming outside eu I can put in an expense claim for the amount.

Its sort of an irrelevant conversation really as my work don't provide anyone with phones or sim cards so if I refused to use my phone for work it would be hassle for me and count against long running agreement to work from home regularly etc.

It's amazing they'll allow you to put in an expense claim for roaming and international calls, but not a €5 sim card in a €20 phone. Strange world!

Just messing. It suits some people and not others. It depends on the person and the job.