Payroll not processing overtime and subsistence due to staff shortages

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

Do you agree with this Strumms? Should the clerks be made to do extra work even if they don’t want to work beyond their contracted hours?

I think it’s very evident that the only people who need to be ‘made’ do anything are the managers... it’s that much of a clown show on their behalf they should be working in a tent with ‘Fossets’ over the door.

If clerks ‘cant’ complete the work as I said it needs to be outsourced to a payroll company.

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

I think it’s very evident that the only people who need to be ‘made’ do anything are the managers... it’s that much of a clown show on their behalf they should be working in a tent with ‘Fossets’ over the door.

If clerks ‘cant’ complete the work as I said it needs to be outsourced to a payroll company.

For the boy at the back of the room, the managers cannot hire replacements, that is done through HSE recruitment section in Manorhamilton Co Leitrim, and if they are told by the Dept of Health to hold off recruiting, they cannot get replacement staff. A few months ago Leo Varadkar was forced to deny that they had put a ban on recruitment because they were so slow hiring staff. The only way this is going to be addressed is through Union involvement.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/new-hse-staff-not-allowed-to-work-due-to-recruitment-ban-tds-claim-1.4073525?mode=amp

For someone so militant against staff being made to work longer hours, you seem to flip flop when it suits you. You have never been a manager nor had to deal with staff shortages have you Strumms?

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

For the boy at the back of the room, the managers cannot hire replacements, that is done through HSE recruitment section in Manorhamilton Co Leitrim, and if they are told by the Dept of Health to hold off recruiting, they cannot get replacement staff. A few months ago Leo Varadkar was forced to deny that they had put a ban on recruitment because they were so slow hiring staff. The only way this is going to be addressed is through Union involvement.

For someone so militant against staff being made to work longer hours, you seem to flip flop when it suits you. You have never been a manager nor had to deal with staff shortages have you Strumms?

Boy at the back of the room ? Really classy

No flip flop, the view I have is considered and consistent

Ban on recruiting? All well and good, people not being paid though on time because of a recruiting ban ? You need to be actively seeking a special provision for hiring a new hire, a temp..

Or

Outsourcing... Wagepoint or whatever company ...

What you are not doing is paying employees late.

3DataModem

Whomever your employer is, clerical staff availabilty should never be an excuse for not getting paid (unless a very small business and an emergency situation).

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/when_you_are_regularly_paid_late.html

spaceHopper

If you are in a union then as bad as you feel they are you need to get them involved.

At the same time I'd get on the radio, think Joe Duffy and make a fuss. The last FG government were very reactionary and often found a solution only when forced to. I'd say this FG/FF one are every bit as bad. If all of your colleagues email their Local TD's and make a fuss.

One other thing you could do is email the SF TD who is responsible for Health to ask a leaders question in the Dail/ They'd be all over this kind of thing.

How is the minster going to rectify the HSE's failure to pay key front line staff the over time due to them. Is he ware of the clerical staff shortages and the damage this is doing to moral during the pandemic"

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

Boy at the back of the room ? Really classy

No flip flop, the view I have is considered and consistent

Ban on recruiting? All well and good, people not being paid though on time because of a recruiting ban ? You need to be actively seeking a special provision for hiring a new hire, a temp..

Or

Outsourcing... Wagepoint or whatever company ...

What you are not doing is paying employees late.

And you think the payroll manager can decide to outsource payroll or take on a temp? Those decisions are made far away from the payroll office.

The ops fight is with the HSE, not the clerks/managers inputting the timesheets.

I really am interested that your considered and consistent view is that managers should dictate that clerks/staff work longer hours to cover staff who have left, irrespective of whether they agree or not. I will gladly remind you of that on future threads.

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

And you think the payroll manager can decide to outsource payroll or take on a temp? Those decisions are made far away from the payroll office.

The payroll manager has the authority and responsibility to get payments processed, calculated and paid on time. They do in fact, or certainly any that I’ve known, have the ability to get in a temp. Most managers do, they are directly responsible for the manpower in their department. Hiring a temp just comes out of their budget...

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

The payroll manager has the authority and responsibility to get payments processed, calculated and paid on time. They do in fact, or certainly any that I’ve known, have the ability to get in a temp. Most managers do, they are directly responsible for the manpower in their department. Hiring a temp just comes out of their budget...

Not in the HSE, all staff recruitment is centralised.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/jobs/recruitment-process/how-to-apply.html

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

Not in the HSE, all staff recruitment is centralised.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/jobs/recruitment-process/how-to-apply.html

Getting in a temp isnt recruiting.

They are not an employee. They are not hired... they are agency manpower contracted to them.

No differerent from getting in a contracted cleaning company to clean offices, window cleaner, vending machine contracts. .

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

The payroll manager has the authority and responsibility to get payments processed, calculated and paid on time. They do in fact, or certainly any that I’ve known, have the ability to get in a temp. Most managers do, they are directly responsible for the manpower in their department. Hiring a temp just comes out of their budget...

This isn't the private sector. It's public. There's entire legislation governing recruitment within the hse and the wider civil service.

It would be great if it did work the same, but it doesn't and there's pretty much shortages in most areas.

Recruitment must be sanctioned. It must be run via competitions and is certainly not done on a job by job basis.

The paramedic should get paid but the staff in charge of payroll (Killarney?) Are also busy and too be fair are usually very helpful when needs be. If the are paid for 40 hours then that's what they also work. It's like any mathematical equation, if there's 300 hours of work but only 7 staff, something can't get completed without overtime and that's not always forthcoming

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

Getting in a temp isnt recruiting.

They are not an employee. They are not hired... they are agency manpower contracted to them.

No differerent from getting in a contracted cleaning company to clean offices, window cleaner, vending machine contracts. .

It's very different and it's not allowed.

Look strumms, I like your posts generally but your wrong on this one. Your attempting to apply private sector freedoms and norms to the public sector. It doesn't work that way

Strumms

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

It's very different and it's not allowed.

Look strumms, I like your posts generally but your wrong on this one. Your attempting to apply private sector freedoms and norms to the public sector. It doesn't work that way

Well i think the freedoms that enable employees in both public and private sector to be treated fairly should be universal accross both sectors..both public and private.

kathleen37

Dav010 wrote: »

You have never been a manager nor had to deal with staff shortages have you Strumms?

I've been a manager for many years, and my priority is always my team and making sure the work they do, and the impact of that work is managed properly. Yes, I've had to deal with staff shortages, and managing that was my job.

Thinking about this, there must, must be some path of escalation the payroll manager can take. Temporary secondments for example. Asking other teams for volunteers. And I would absolutely be doing extra hours and input the data personally, if that was what it took for front line staff to get their money.

In this case, I would also be considering whistle blowing about this situation. For crying out loud, these are the people putting their lives on the line for us. The least they should expect is to get their bloody wages.

Dav010

kathleen37 wrote: »

I've been a manager for many years, and my priority is always my team and making sure the work they do, and the impact of that work is managed properly. Yes, I've had to deal with staff shortages, and managing that was my job.

Thinking about this, there must, must be some path of escalation the payroll manager can take. Temporary secondments for example. Asking other teams for volunteers. And I would absolutely be doing extra hours and input the data personally, if that was what it took for front line staff to get their money.

In this case, I would also be considering whistle blowing about this situation. For crying out loud, these are the people putting their lives on the line for us. The least they should expect is to get their bloody wages.

Absolutely agree with everything you posted, but the higher echelons of HSE management and Dept of Health seem immune to much more pressing and media reported staff issues like beds/nursing/consultants/Doctors/oncology services etc, I doubt overtime payments will bother them too much, especially since standard contracted hours are being paid.

Staff shortages are not the fault of local Dept managers, it is a failing throughout the HSE. As a manager yourself, you would do your best, but would you accept blame for this situation if you were in charge of payroll? Apparently Strumms thinks you should.

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

Absolutely agree with everything you posted, but the higher echelons of HSE management and Dept of Health seem immune to much more pressing and media reported staff issues like beds/nursing/consultants/Doctors/oncology services etc, I doubt overtime payments will bother them too much, especially since standard contracted hours are being paid.

Staff shortages are not the fault of local Dept managers, it is a failing throughout the HSE. As a manager yourself, you would do your best, but would you accept blame for this situation if you were in charge of payroll? Apparently Strumms thinks you should.

They simply need to ensure that ALL hours are paid... not just contracted. As an employee im not remotly interested in managments failure to staff payroll. All worked hours are paid... whatever lengths.. whatever thinking outside the box to make it happen ... managers need to manage. If you want 10 hours extra from me this month... by the time the pay slip is done and hits my desk...it better be included... i work for money... not an IOU.... if you want me to do extra.. your part of the deal is you pay me on time for doing it.... if you cant and dont... i dont do extra.. im not a charity.. im not a loan shark... want extra... be ready with the payment... on time everytime... keep the sob stories and cover ups for disney time.

bobbyy gee

are you in a union get them to sort it out

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

They simply need to ensure that ALL hours are paid... not just contracted. As an employee im not remotly interested in managments failure to staff payroll. All worked hours are paid... whatever lengths.. whatever thinking outside the box to make it happen ... managers need to manage. If you want 10 hours extra from me this month... by the time the pay slip is done and hits my desk...it better be included... i work for money... not an IOU.... if you want me to do extra.. your part of the deal is you pay me on time for doing it.... if you cant and dont... i dont do extra.. im not a charity.. im not a loan shark... want extra... be ready with the payment... on time everytime... keep the sob stories and cover ups for disney time.

There you go Kathleen37, imagine being a manager who is short staffed due to historic systematic failures of your employer, and you have this guy blaming you personally for the failure of not inputting overtime for nationwide employees. Nice, based on that, I don’t know how you would avoid the sack for incompetence, and you thank him.

Dav010

bobbyy gee wrote: »

are you in a union get them to sort it out

For the life of me, I can’t understand why the ire isn’t being directed towards the Union and HSE rather than the payroll Dept staff.

kathleen37

Dav010 wrote: »

Absolutely agree with everything you posted, but the higher echelons of HSE management and Dept of Health seem immune to much more pressing and media reported staff issues like beds/nursing/consultants/Doctors/oncology services etc, I doubt overtime payments will bother them too much, especially since standard contracted hours are being paid.

Staff shortages are not the fault of local Dept managers, it is a failing throughout the HSE. As a manager yourself, you would do your best, but would you accept blame for this situation if you were in charge of payroll? Apparently Strumms thinks you should.

I do understand that things are done differently in the public services, I only have private sector experience as a manager. I worked in the NHS (non management, contractor role) for 7 years so do understand some of the challenges.

I also understand that staff shortages are not the fault of local management, but I still think there are things that can be done which don't involve new recruitment to alleviate this situation.

I hear what you say also re the whistle blowing, but this situation honestly give me the rage so much, I'd certainly be doing that.

I sincerely hope this gets sorted for the OP and their colleagues.

Regarding the OP, this is really something that your manager should be speaking to the payroll manager about. It just an intolerable situation.

Dav010

kathleen37 wrote: »

I do understand that things are done differently in the public services, I only have private sector experience as a manager. I worked in the NHS (non management, contractor role) for 7 years so do understand some of the challenges.

I also understand that staff shortages are not the fault of local management, but I still think there are things that can be done which don't involve new recruitment to alleviate this situation.

I hear what you say also re the whistle blowing, but this situation honestly give me the rage so much, I'd certainly be doing that.

I sincerely hope this gets sorted for the OP and their colleagues.

Regarding the OP, this is really something that your manager should be speaking to the payroll manager about. It just an intolerable situation.

So you would accept the blame as per Strumm’s post that you thanked? then sit down and do all the nationwide over time for the ambulance service , in the allotted timeframe, for the foreseeable future until the HSE finally gives approval for replacement staff?

kathleen37

Dav010 wrote: »

There you go Kathleen37, imagine being a manager who is short staffed due to historic systematic failures of your employer, and you have this guy blaming you personally for the failure of not inputting overtime for nationwide employees. Nice, based on that, I don’t know how you would avoid the sack for incompetence, and you thank him.

I actually agree with what he/she is saying. Payroll in hugely important. It's why I'd never consider a role in that area. Huge responsibility.

Again, it needs inventive thinking to get something sorted.

Dav010

kathleen37 wrote: »

I actually agree with what he/she is saying. Payroll in hugely important. It's why I'd never consider a role in that area. Huge responsibility.

Again, it needs inventive thinking to get something sorted.

In your own sector, you would accept blame and responsibility for delays caused by short staffing and your employer’s refusal to hire replacements? And do this indefinitely, whilst dealing with Strumms calling you out for your neglect and incompetence as a manager?

I tip my hat to you.

kathleen37

Dav010 wrote: »

So you would accept the blame as per Strumm’s post that you thanked? then sit down and do all the nationwide over time for the ambulance service , in the allotted timeframe, for the foreseeable future until the HSE finally gives approval for replacement staff?

Even in the private sector there are issues with staffing levels/budgets etc.

Like I said, I do appreciate where you're coming from. I just don't agree that there is nothing that can be done (outside of new recruitment, which we all know even if it's approved can take months)

Some things are just unacceptable.

Peace

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

So you would accept the blame as per Strumm’s post that you thanked? then sit down and do all the nationwide over time for the ambulance service , in the allotted timeframe, for the foreseeable future until the HSE finally gives approval for replacement staff?

The blame is at the feet at those responsible for the failure... management. I was very clear about that

So why would Kathleen be accepting blame, when none was apportioned to her ?

Unfortunately your paper thin attempt at ‘stirring’ is a little yawnsome at this stage, Dav010. You need to find another hobby, one at which you might actually be good at. :eek:

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

The blame is at the feet at those responsible for the failure... management. I was very clear about that

So why would Kathleen be accepting blame, when none was apportioned to her ?

Unfortunately your paper thin attempt at ‘stirring’ is a little yawnsome at this stage, Dav010. You need to find another hobby, one at which you might actually be good at. :eek:

Because if Kathleen was the manager of the Dept, you would be having her sacked, even though she would not be the one hiring the replacement and it would not be her fault if overtime payroll deadline was not met.

Strumms wrote: »

it’s data entry, that gets the once over from a senior manager, signed off and sent to payroll. If a manager or management team cannot get that right where they have the right people in the business to ensure ontime and accurate payments they have zero business holding the position of manager.)

Strumms wrote: »

I think it’s very evident that the only people who need to be ‘made’ do anything are the managers... it’s that much of a clown show on their behalf they should be working in a tent with ‘Fossets’ over the door..

Strumms, do you think inflexibility and a constant state of indignation can hinder becoming management material?

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

Because if Kathleen was the manager of the Dept, you would be having her sacked, even though she would not be the one hiring the replacement and it would not be her fault if overtime payroll deadline was not met.







Strumms, do you think inflexibility and a constant state of indignation can hinder becoming management material?

I don’t think about it my friend, I have no want, need or aspiration to be considered manglement material.

Mrs OBumble

Dav010 wrote: »

For the life of me, I can’t understand why the ire isn’t being directed towards the Union and HSE rather than the payroll Dept staff.

Indeed the union is likely protecting underworked administrative staff in other departments who could be redirected to help if only their contracts weren't so restricted.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

Well i think the freedoms that enable employees in both public and private sector to be treated fairly should be universal accross both sectors..both public and private.

That's not really what we are discussing though. We are discussing the reality of payments, staff issues and recruitment within the public sector.

The whistle has been blown. You think people really care? They don't, the just mutter about being lazy, overpaid and pensions.

Oh and 'the real world'

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Indeed the union is likely protecting underworked administrative staff in other departments who could be redirected to help if only their contracts weren't so restricted.

Staff can be moved. Many are but like the private sector, the staff don't all want to be transferred to Kerry

Strumms

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

That's not really what we are discussing though. We are discussing the reality of payments, staff issues and recruitment within the public sector.

The whistle has been blown. You think people really care? They don't, the just mutter about being lazy, overpaid and pensions.

Oh and 'the real world'

We are discussing it. People need to be paid accurately, on time, every time.

The managers need to be alive to the reality that the main reason , people come to work is to do a days work and to be paid, accurately and on time, every time... they simply need to outsource payroll if they are failing at ensuring staff are paid accurately on time.