Payroll not processing overtime and subsistence due to staff shortages

LegacyUser

Hi all. Work for the HSE, specifically the ambulance service. A small section of NAS thats mainly involved in PTS, covid testing and frontline backup.

Yesterday we got word that due to payroll staff shortages, and no approval for replacing a clerical officer that processes our wages that recently left the job, our timesheets will not be processed and none of our overtime and subsistence pay will be given for the forseeable future.

Basically, the computer is only going to pay us flat wages and none of our OT/Subs which generally amounts to anywhere from €200-400 per paycheck.

We rely on this money big time to top up our below average flat wage.

The only thing we've been told by payroll is "the situation is currently under review and we hope to receive sanction for a replacement clerical officer soon".

In HSE terms, this could mean months or longer.

Morale is already so low, we've been striking and partaking in industrial action last year and there's a lot of very disgruntled staff in the service due to how poorly we're treated by management and the inadequate staffing, equipment and training we receive.

The unions (in bed with management) are beyond useless. We're a very fractured workforce as is and nothing ever seems to get done in terms of improving working conditions.

This is another kick in the teeth.

What do you think we should do? There's lots of talk of dropping tools. We've done this before over the years. One time it worked in rectifying a safety problem, and it was non union action.
Other times unions have been involved and management laughed at us for months and ignored us.

The only other option we have is to take it and go without substantial pay for the next month or longer until a clerical officer is hired.

antix80

Is there an option not to work overtime?

If so, if you're not happy with the terms of overtime don't work it.

This isn't a private sector employer pulling a fast one. The money will be there .. you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Strumms

You get together and agree that until your employer can facilitate the payment that you work for... ie, basic, shift and OT... that any and ALL OT requests will be refused. If you won’t get paid for doing it in an accurate and on time fashion, you WONT do it.

The managers should NEVER have facilitated a situation where because one member of staff left, people were not getting paid correctly. There needs to be a backup be it because of a long term sickness in the team, a retirement, somebody leaving that all payments can be processed. Might mean outsourcing payroll or god forbid a manager staying back a night or two, like they want you to, sorry EXPECT you to if the shît hits the fan... It’s unacceptable not to pay people the correct amount, on time, every time.

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

You get together and agree that until your employer can facilitate the payment that you work for... ie, basic, shift and OT... that any and ALL OT requests will be refused. If you won’t get paid for doing it in an accurate and on time fashion, you WONT do it.

The managers should NEVER have facilitated a situation where because one member of staff left, people were not getting paid correctly. There needs to be a backup be it because of a long term sickness in the team, a retirement, somebody leaving that all payments can be processed. Might mean outsourcing payroll or god forbid a manager staying back a night or two, like they want you to, sorry EXPECT you to if the shît hits the fan... It’s unacceptable not to pay people the correct amount, on time, every time.

Managers in the HSE are not in a position to hire replacements when staff leave.

Strumms

Dav010 wrote: »

Managers in the HSE are not in a position to hire replacements when staff leave.

They need to re-evaluate that. People need to be paid accurately and on time, overtime and basic pay, it’s the same, money earned and to be paid as owed. If a staff shortage or expertise shortage is the catalyst for OT not being processed, you have to do something about it.

If a heart surgeon in the Mater went long term sick just after another retired I can assure you they’d be looking for a replacement ASAP. People need to be paid what they are owed, on time, every time.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

They need to re-evaluate that. People need to be paid accurately and on time, overtime and basic pay, it’s the same, money earned and to be paid as owed. If a staff shortage or expertise shortage is the catalyst for OT not being processed, you have to do something about it.

If a heart surgeon in the Mater went long term sick just after another retired I can assure you they’d be looking for a replacement ASAP. People need to be paid what they are owed, on time, every time.

Who needs to reevaluate? The hse is public sector. What they can do and not do is decided by ministers and legislation. Most front line departments are short staffed and underfunded to such an extent that it's either staff shortages or planned updates / initiatives get shelved.

It's also not possible for a paramedic to refuse overtime if he's at a scene dealing with an emergency when his shift ends. They have a duty of care to patients.



Op, what's siptu or nasra saying? Surely whoever one you are with is involved? I know community Gardai are in the same boat. Nothing processed since covid roster came in

GarIT

I'd strike. Or stop doing any of the work you are paid allowances for.

Divisadero

antix80 wrote: »

Is there an option not to work overtime?

If so, if you're not happy with the terms of overtime don't work it.

This isn't a private sector employer pulling a fast one. The money will be there .. you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

You're making a molehill out of a mountain.

Strumms

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Who needs to reevaluate? The hse is public sector. What they can do and not do is decided by ministers and legislation. Most front line departments are short staffed and underfunded to such an extent that it's either staff shortages or planned updates / initiatives get shelved.

It's also not possible for a paramedic to refuse overtime if he's at a scene dealing with an emergency when his shift ends. They have a duty of care to patients.



Op, what's siptu or nasra saying? Surely whoever one you are with is involved? I know community Gardai are in the same boat. Nothing processed since covid roster came in

Management, political people, whomever the book stops with and makes decisions that’s brings about a situation where people who work are not getting accurately or efficiently paid.

A paramedic ‘at the scene’ is thinking about the job at hand... but if on the way back a call comes over the radio that the replacement crew are a driver down and can they stay out an extra 30 in order a cover driver gets ready...nope, got a place I need to be.

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

Management, political people, whomever the book stops with and makes decisions that’s brings about a situation where people who work are not getting accurately or efficiently paid.

A paramedic ‘at the scene’ is thinking about the job at hand... but if on the way back a call comes over the radio that the replacement crew are a driver down and can they stay out an extra 30 in order a cover driver gets ready...nope, got a place I need to be.

Strumms wrote: »

If a heart surgeon in the Mater went long term sick just after another retired I can assure you they’d be looking for a replacement ASAP.

You think the Dept of health don’t know there are staff shortages in Hospitals, including consultants/surgeons? The Mater are currently down 16 consultants.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40037798.html?type=amp

august12

Dav010 wrote: »

Managers in the HSE are not in a position to hire replacements when staff leave.

But they are in a position to ensure adequate numbers of staff are trained to provide services,

Dav010

august12 wrote: »

But they are in a position to ensure adequate numbers of staff are trained to provide services,

Having never worked in payroll, I can’t testify to that, having worked in the HSE and it’s predecessor, the Health Boards, I know that managers cannot just pull staff from other departments at will and try as they may, cannot train one staff member to do the job of three members to the same standard.

Managers, Dept heads do their best with what they have, but saying they can get the staff they want at will or train staff to adequately cover the additional duties of those that have left, is naive.

Dempo1

Whilst I sympathise, listening to that Spoofer Paul Reid, Head of the HSE, all is perfectly rosey within the HSE.

But that aside, it's worth point out countless issues reported within the private sector workers who don't have the gaurentee of a weekly pay slip or indeed pensionable jobs, more to the point raised, the Government's TWSS scheme left 10s of thousands of employees short changed throughout its implementation, Staff expected to work full hours for less pay, Over time payments not allowed, rates of actual pay reduced etc. So whilst I sympathise with the OP. in the real world there are also continuing hardships and nothing to do with staff shortages in payroll departments. I commend the OP for the work they do, but a little perspective please on a crisis that has affected most working people.

AndrewJRenko

OTnotpaid wrote: »

Hi all. Work for the HSE, specifically the ambulance service. A small section of NAS thats mainly involved in PTS, covid testing and frontline backup.

Yesterday we got word that due to payroll staff shortages, and no approval for replacing a clerical officer that processes our wages that recently left the job, our timesheets will not be processed and none of our overtime and subsistence pay will be given for the forseeable future.

Basically, the computer is only going to pay us flat wages and none of our OT/Subs which generally amounts to anywhere from €200-400 per paycheck.

We rely on this money big time to top up our below average flat wage.

The only thing we've been told by payroll is "the situation is currently under review and we hope to receive sanction for a replacement clerical officer soon".

In HSE terms, this could mean months or longer.

Morale is already so low, we've been striking and partaking in industrial action last year and there's a lot of very disgruntled staff in the service due to how poorly we're treated by management and the inadequate staffing, equipment and training we receive.

The unions (in bed with management) are beyond useless. We're a very fractured workforce as is and nothing ever seems to get done in terms of improving working conditions.

Really, the union IS your best route to solving issues like this. I know it's fashionable to blame everything on the union, but the union IS literally down to the members. The members get to vote on everything, so you can't blame the union for the mess with the inter-union dispute.

This is a good opportunity to get the union working for you. Make sure this issue gets on the agenda of every union meeting, push the shop stewards and officials to be escalating this issue. It's really an open goal for the union.

Or you could just whinge to Joe Duffy, which will probably get it sorted quicker.

Dempo1

Dempo1 wrote: »

Whilst I sympathise, listening to that Spoofer Paul Reid, Head of the HSE, all is perfectly rosey within the HSE.

But that aside, it's worth point out countless issues reported within the private sector workers who don't have the gaurentee of a weekly pay slip or indeed pensionable jobs, more to the point raised, the Government's TWSS scheme left 10s of thousands of employees short changed throughout its implementation, Staff expected to work full hours for less pay, Over time payments not allowed, rates of actual pay reduced etc. So whilst I sympathise with the OP. in the real world there are also continuing hardships and nothing to do with staff shortages in payroll departments. I commend the OP for the work they do, but a little perspective please on a crisis that has affected most working people.

There's a little vomit in my mouth.

The op does an important job in the very sector thats battling the pandemic, he's not being paid and he does all this in a very real world that's far more real than whatever paper pushing excircise you were doing prior to sitting at home for a few months getting 350 a week to scratch yourself.

Honestly, to use the 'real world' and 'pandemic' cards on someone that's working in the medical sector!

(See how I can turn that around begrudgers?)

Sardonicat

OP I'm utterly disgusted that this is happening to the very people who are putting themselves at risk testing possible COVD infected people. One such individual called out to my house to test me on Thursday, the same day I called the GP with my symptoms. He was efficient, professional, kind and comforting and I couldn't praise him enough. I think ye should go public with this. Create a public outcry. It's disgusting that ye"re being treated this way when the country needs you more than ever and ye have risen so brilliantly to the challenge.

Strumms

august12 wrote: »

But they are in a position to ensure adequate numbers of staff are trained to provide services,

It’s their JOB too basically

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

It’s their JOB too basically

Just like that, you think a HSE manager can advertise and employ a replacement?

stinkbomb

Dav010 wrote: »

Just like that, you think a HSE manager can advertise and employ a replacement?

of course they can't. But what they can do is take over the work of the disappeared CO and pay the staff their wages, in full.

It's pretty basic. These are the people who save lives, who risk theirs. Pay their ****ing money, and do it as the the topmost priority. Anything less is completely unacceptable.

Dav010

stinkbomb wrote: »

of course they can't. But what they can do is take over the work of the disappeared CO and pay the staff their wages, in full.

It's pretty basic. These are the people who save lives, who risk theirs. Pay their ****ing money, and do it as the the topmost priority. Anything less is completely unacceptable.

I am not defending nor excusing the HSE for being understaffed and not paying staff, but blaming the manager for this or saying the manager should do cover the work in the required timeframe is idiotic. Some parts of the HSE are chronically understaffed, that is an issue for the unions and the HSE, not blaming the guy/girl who has to run an understaffed department and can’t get replacements.

stinkbomb

Its not at all idiotic. If the manager in question is doing anything else with their time rather than sort this issue out, that is what is idiotic.

If you're running an understaffed department and can't replace people who leave, do you know what your top priority needs to be? PAY THE STAFF YOU STILL HAVE, so they don't also leave/down tools/refuse overtime etc. It's not rocket science.

Dav010

stinkbomb wrote: »

Its not at all idiotic. If the manager in question is doing anything else with their time rather than sort this issue out, that is what is idiotic.

If you're running an understaffed department and can't replace people who leave, do you know what your top priority needs to be? PAY THE STAFF YOU STILL HAVE, so they don't also leave/down tools/refuse overtime etc. It's not rocket science.

Apparently some further simplification is necessary. If the job of the understaffed department is payroll, then the priority every day, staffed or understaffed, is the payment of wages. If they don’t have the staff to do it, the employer, in this case the HSE are to blame.

stinkbomb

"The HSE" isn't some nebulous force. It's the people who work in it. If the staff aren't getting paid, its the job of the management of that staff to sort it out so that they are getting paid. It's not just some other unspecified entities fault.

Which bit of this is confusing you?

Dav010

stinkbomb wrote: »

"The HSE" isn't some nebulous force. It's the people who work in it. If the staff aren't getting paid, its the job of the management of that staff to sort it out so that they are getting paid. It's not just some other unspecified entities fault.

Which bit of this is confusing you?

None of it confuses me, I’ve worked on and off in the HSE/HB’s for nearly 25 years. For some reason you think a department manager is autonomous, if they are understaffed they have to go to the HR Dept, who then goes to the Hospital manager, who in turn must communicate with the HSE recruitment section. If the manager is understaffed, they can’t just rub a bottle and a new staff member pops out.

You understand that procedures in Hospitals get cancelled all the time due to chronic understaffing, do you think a manager can tell a surgeon to operate faster or push patients out the door quicker?

Sardonicat

Dav010 wrote: »

You understand that procedures in Hospitals get cancelled all the time due to chronic understaffing, do you think a manager can tell a surgeon to operate faster or push patients out the door quicker?

They can tell someone to stay back and input data into a payroll appilcation, though. It's hardly comparable to surgery.Its data input.

Dav010

Sardonicat wrote: »

They can tell someone to stay back and input data into a payroll appilcation, though. It's hardly comparable to surgery.Its data input.

That requires a degree of flexibility, something Strumms does not necessarily agree with, unless it suits him/her.

In relation to surgery, it is an example of how even more crucial tasks get held up due to staff shortages, which are beyond managers control.

Sardonicat

Dav010 wrote: »

That requires a degree of flexibility, something Strumms does not necessarily agree with, unless it suits him/her.

A degree of flexibility from whom? The wages clerks? If your job is to get out frontline workers paid then yeah, you should expect to roll your sleeves up at times when you'd prefer not to. Just like the ambulance service have done but apparently are being expected to do without getting paid for the extra hours cos no one in the payroll office could be arsed.

Strumms

They will get the thumbs out of their arses and get hiring if employees turn around together and say, “if you fail to pay me what I’m owed, on time, every time, basic and overtime and shift pay, I’m going to escalate this as far as is necessary until I do... if I’m not being paid and compensated for my labor as per my contract, on time every time , I reserve the right also to withdraw labor until payment has been made up to date..

As sardoniccat says it’s data entry, that gets the once over from a senior manager, signed off and sent to payroll. If a manager or management team cannot get that right where they have the right people in the business to ensure ontime and accurate payments they have zero business holding the position of manager.

Also there is more to this than meets the eye... do payments stop if the payroll person is away for two weeks annual leave ? Is sick ? Where is the logic in having only ONE person who can process wages ?...HAS to be a backup.... be it a manager (common sense) , outsourcing to a payroll company who have an agreement to step in.

Flexibility in most elements of jobs and employment, for sure. Payment of wages ? Absolutely ZERO flexibility. On time, every time and accurate

Dav010

Sardonicat wrote: »

A degree of flexibility from whom? The wages clerks? If your job is to get out frontline workers paid then yeah, you should expect to roll your sleeves up at times when you'd prefer not to. Just like the ambulance service have done but apparently are being expected to do without getting paid for the extra hours cos no one in the payroll office could be arsed.

Do you agree with this Strumms? Should the clerks be made to do extra work even if they don’t want to work beyond their contracted hours?

Sardonicat

Dav010 wrote: »

Do you agree with this Strumms? Should the clerks be made to do extra work even if they don’t want to work beyond their contracted hours?

Shoud the ambulance staff, even if they are not being paid as per their contract?

Dav010

Sardonicat wrote: »

Shoud the ambulance staff, even if they are not being paid as per their contract?

That is really between the op, their union and employer, the HSE.