Police shootings, vigilante shootings, and Black Lives Matter

ambro25

Potatoeman wrote: »

That was a rhetorical question.

It’s cause and effect. The whole Islamaphobia idea is quickly being thrown out the window. It’s clearly no longer an unfounded bias.

Police in Germany and Spain (and most other Continental countries) has been armed, typically with revolvers and these days self-loading pistols, for decades and longer.

Countries with paramilitary police since forever (think Gendarmes in France) have had machine gun-toting policemen on streets and at road blocks likewise since forever.

It tends to impress people not long-used to the concept of bobbies with sidearms, typically Brits and Irish whose national police forces are not (fire-)armed by default. That is meant to be observational, not judgemental btw.

Resurgent Islamist violence has simply cause escalation. In Germany and Spain, with larger standard patrols and heavier equipment as you describe. In France, with soldier patrols in full combat gear. But it is not exclusive: there is as much of a terror risk from the far right in many locales (particularly Germany and Nordic countries).

And *none* of that is new or recent *at all*: there were soldier patrolling French cities in the 80s, in the 90s, in the 00s...likewise in Germany and Italy in the Baader years, likewise in Spain in the ETA years, <etc>.

It's neither a new cause, nor a new effect - and in application, operationally, it's light years away from the growing mass-militarisation of police forces in the US, which seems to be turning every (non-plastic) cop into a SWAT type, and every SWAT member into a SOG operator.

Then again, the ratio of gun ownership and gun-related crime is *rather* different between the US, and countries this side of the Atlantic. Feel free to infer conclusions from that.

Brian?

Potatoeman wrote: »

Read the last line of the person I quoted. Europeans can’t complain about how armed the police in America are when the police in Europe are armed like they are entering a siege when just walking down the street.

Actually, yes we can.

I would also point out that European police forces aren't randomly shooting black lads at the rate they are in the US .

nullzero

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm not offended by police wearing PPE, I actually wish US police wore their masks consistently. My issue is with their numbers, their outfitting, and their actions being incredibly passive for right wing protests and arriving with an army of officers, dressed for war, and acting incredibly aggressively when it comes to BLM protests.

As for your agenda, from your posts it appears that it is to excuse police actions at every opportunity while then denigrating protestors demanding racial equality every chance you can.

It appears I'm excusing police actions at every opportunity?

That isn't the case. I do however take serious issue with demands to defund police and the normalisation of abuse directed at them.

I believe in racial equality, I don't believe in BLM or any movement that tells people they are victims because of their skin colour. I think the way BLM operate should be an afront to intelligent black people everywhere.

I believe in total equality for all ethnicities, religious beliefs sexual orientations and the notion that all people of a certain skin colour are victims is anathema to me. If that offends your sensibilities that's just tough.

nullzero

Brian? wrote: »

Actually, yes we can.

I would also point out that European police forces aren't randomly shooting black lads at the rate they are in the US .

In truth the police shoot almost 3 times as many white people as they shoot black people in America.

Some like to break this down to a per capita calculation but that isn't exactly an honest interpretation of the facts.

Foxtrol

nullzero wrote: »

It appears I'm excusing police actions at every opportunity?

That isn't the case. I do however take serious issue with demands to defund police and the normalisation of abuse directed at them.

I just pointed out how the police show completely different standards for two types of protestors and rather than saying 'I cannot comment'.

You have no problem commenting on everything BLM related though...

I believe in racial equality, I don't believe in BLM or any movement that tells people they are victims because of their skin colour. I think the way BLM operate should be an afront to intelligent black people everywhere.

I believe in total equality for all ethnicities, religious beliefs sexual orientations and the notion that all people of a certain skin colour are victims is anathema to me. If that offends your sensibilities that's just tough.

You claim to believe in that but then stick your head in the sand when it is clear that things aren't equal... 'I cannot comment'... :rolleyes:

Brian?

nullzero wrote: »

In truth the police shoot almost 3 times as many white people as they shoot black people in America.

Some like to break this down to a per capita calculation but that isn't exactly an honest interpretation of the facts.

Gross numbers are not an honest interpretation, per capita is. That's a bizarre argument to make

nullzero

Foxtrol wrote: »

I just pointed out how the police show completely different standards for two types of protestors and rather than saying 'I cannot comment'.

You have no problem commenting on everything BLM related though...



You claim to believe in that but then stick your head in the sand when it is clear that things aren't equal... 'I cannot comment'... :rolleyes:

We're talking about police choosing whether or not to wear protective equipment at one event and not another. You're equating that with police being heavy handed with one group and not another which is a false equivalence.

I'm not sticking my head in the sand at all. You have your own agenda, falling on one side of the political divide in America. I think both sides are insane, so by virtue of that I think you are insane and your opinions and the manner in which you present them lend weight to that assessment.

nullzero

Brian? wrote: »

Gross numbers are not an honest interpretation, per capita is. That's a bizarre argument to make

Hilarious.

If the facts don't suit you then you shift focus to a more nuanced way of looking at them that suits your worldview.

The gross numbers are the gross numbers and more white people are shot by police end of story. There is nothing bizarre about stating that. Per capita merely presents that information through a different prism.

Foxtrol

nullzero wrote: »

We're talking about police choosing whether or not to wear protective equipment at one event and not another. You're equating that with police being heavy handed with one group and not another which is a false equivalence.

I'm not sticking my head in the sand at all. You have your own agenda, falling on one side of the political divide in America. I think both sides are insane, so by virtue of that I think you are insane and your opinions and the manner in which you present them lend weight to that assessment.

I'm falling on one side of the political divide but you aren't? :rolleyes:

Seems the norm here for folks to claim to be some kind of independent observer and then parrot right wing talking points, like I've also noticed you've been doing in other threads. Interesting approach but you aren't fooling anyone.

Brian?

nullzero wrote: »

Hilarious.

If the facts don't suit you then you shift focus to a more nuanced way of looking at them that suits your worldview.

The gross numbers are the gross numbers and more white people are shot by police end of story. There is nothing bizarre about stating that. Per capita merely presents that information through a different prism.

Gross numbers don’t work at a population level when one group out numbers another by so much. That’s basic statistics.

It’s completely bizarre to dismiss per capita analysis as bias. It’s a fact that the US police shoot more white people than black people. It’s a fact that they shoot 3x black men per capita. Both are undeniable facts. The latter is more salient for this discussion.

nullzero

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'm falling on one side of the political divide but you aren't? :rolleyes:

Seems the norm here for folks to claim to be some kind of independent observer and then parrot right wing talking points, like I've also noticed you've been doing in other threads. Interesting approach but you aren't fooling anyone.

So I repeatedly state that I'm not on either side but I'm really on the right because I disagree with you?

What a ridiculous statement. I had some clown tell me I am a Trump supporter the other day in another thread. I asked them to show one post where I supported Trump, they never got back to me.

I'm not fooling anyone because I'm upfront and honest. You saying I belong to the right wing is a statement that cannot be substantiated and you are just attempting to discredit me by any means necessary. Shame on you.

nullzero

Brian? wrote: »

Gross numbers don’t work at a population level when one group out numbers another by so much. That’s basic statistics.

It’s completely bizarre to dismiss per capita analysis as bias. It’s a fact that the US police shoot more white people than black people. It’s a fact that they shoot 3x black men per capita. Both are undeniable facts. The latter is more salient for this discussion.

How is it more salient for discussion?

You're failing to address the elephant in the room, that the people police shoot are generally criminals.

Brian?

nullzero wrote: »

How is it more salient for discussion?

You're failing to address the elephant in the room, that the people police shoot are generally criminals.

It’s more salient because black people are 3 times more likely to be shot by the police than white people.

I’m happy to address the subject. In order to be criminals, they need to be arrested, charged and convicted of a crime. It’s pretty hard to do that when you’ve been shot dead.

People seem to be continually advancing the argument that if you’re involved it a criminal activity it’s your own fault if you get shot. I completely disagree. The police in the US shoot too many people, full stop. They disproportionately shoot black men.

nullzero

Brian? wrote: »

It’s more salient because black people are 3 times more likely to be shot by the police than white people.

I’m happy to address the subject. In order to be criminals, they need to be arrested, charged and convicted of a crime. It’s pretty hard to do that when you’ve been shot dead.

People seem to be continually advancing the argument that if you’re involved it a criminal activity it’s your own fault if you get shot. I completely disagree. The police in the US shoot too many people, full stop. They disproportionately shoot black men.

If you're being honest you would admit there is more than one way to examine that information.

Just because you haven't been arrested and charged it doesn't mean that you are not involved in criminal activity.
Do you suggest that if somebody who is involved in criminal activity is smart enough to not get caught they are therefore not a criminal?

If police are shooting a disproportionate number of black men it is due to black men being disproportionately involved in crime. That is a saddening truth, and there are a huge number of reasons for that.

How that relates to my opinion on BLM is that BLM teaches black people that they have no agency over this and other issues and they are victims of the world they live in. This is demonstrably false, if it were true no black person would be successful in America or elsewhere and that isn't the case.

Black Lives most certainly matter, but the BLM narrative is something that refuses to accept responsibility on the part of some black people for the situations they find themselves in that they can influence themselves.

Are there racist cops in America? I have no doubt there is and they need to be rooted out.
Are all police forces systemically out to target black people who are minding their own business? Not a hope.

Brian?

nullzero wrote: »

If you're being honest you would admit there is more than one way to examine that information.

Some ways are more accurate.

Just because you haven't been arrested and charged it doesn't mean that you are not involved in criminal activity.
Do you suggest that if somebody who is involved in criminal activity is smart enough to not get caught they are therefore not a criminal?

Technically, they are not.

If police are shooting a disproportionate number of black men it is due to black men being disproportionately involved in crime. That is a saddening truth, and there are a huge number of reasons for that.

True. So we're cool about using per capita statistics now?

How that relates to my opinion on BLM is that BLM teaches black people that they have no agency over this and other issues and they are victims of the world they live in. This is demonstrably false, if it were true no black person would be successful in America or elsewhere and that isn't the case.

Black Lives most certainly matter, but the BLM narrative is something that refuses to accept responsibility on the part of some black people for the situations they find themselves in that they can influence themselves.

Are there racist cops in America? I have no doubt there is and they need to be rooted out.
Are all police forces systemically out to target black people who are minding their own business? Not a hope.

That isn't the point of BLM. BLM was created to highlight a specific problem. The rest is filled in by your own bias I'm afraid.

nullzero

Brian? wrote: »

Some ways are more accurate.



Technically, they are not.



True. So we're cool about using per capita statistics now?



That isn't the point of BLM. BLM was created to highlight a specific problem. The rest is filled in by your own bias I'm afraid.

Weak arguments all sadly.

Technically a serial killer isn't a criminal until they are caught? Waffle.

BLM is on the surface a noble organisation, until of course you dig into their mission statement and how the rationalise the less savory behaviour of some of its adherents.

We need to address the issue of criminality in the African American community first. Empower Black people to make more of themselves. Stop the problem at source, everything else is only treating the symptoms of that issue and it's already too late by then.

Foxtrol

nullzero wrote: »

So I repeatedly state that I'm not on either side but I'm really on the right because I disagree with you?

What a ridiculous statement. I had some clown tell me I am a Trump supporter the other day in another thread. I asked them to show one post where I supported Trump, they never got back to me.

I'm not fooling anyone because I'm upfront and honest. You saying I belong to the right wing is a statement that cannot be substantiated and you are just attempting to discredit me by any means necessary. Shame on you.

You don't seem to be even able to be upfront and honest with yourself. Saying you aren't on either side means absolutely nothing when you continuously parrot the talking points from one side over and over again.

It is completely hypocritical of you to get your knickers in a twist regarding me pointing out your continued regurgitation of right wing talking points when one post earlier you made a similar claim about what you believed my political beliefs were, along with some childish name calling.

nullzero wrote: »

You have your own agenda, falling on one side of the political divide in America. I think both sides are insane, so by virtue of that I think you are insane.

nullzero wrote: »

How that relates to my opinion on BLM is that BLM teaches black people that they have no agency over this and other issues and they are victims of the world they live in. This is demonstrably false, if it were true no black person would be successful in America or elsewhere and that isn't the case.

Black Lives most certainly matter, but the BLM narrative is something that refuses to accept responsibility on the part of some black people for the situations they find themselves in that they can influence themselves.

Are there racist cops in America? I have no doubt there is and they need to be rooted out.
Are all police forces systemically out to target black people who are minding their own business? Not a hope.

Basically all of this could be copied and pasted as an argument against Civil Rights in the US and closer to home in Northern Ireland for Catholics during the Troubles. I always find it so striking how hypocritical some Irish posters are with their feelings towards black people protesting police brutality while at the same time being the first people to say how bad the RUC were.

nullzero

Foxtrol wrote: »

You don't seem to be even able to be upfront and honest with yourself. Saying you aren't on either side means absolutely nothing when you continuously parrot the talking points from one side over and over again.

It is completely hypocritical of you to get your knickers in a twist regarding me pointing out your continued regurgitation of right wing talking points when one post earlier you made a similar claim about what you believed my political beliefs were, along with some childish name calling.






Basically all of this could be copied and pasted as an argument against Civil Rights in the US and closer to home in Northern Ireland for Catholics during the Troubles. I always find it so striking how hypocritical some Irish posters are with their feelings towards black people protesting police brutality while at the same time being the first people to say how bad the RUC were.

Parrot talking points?

I've continuously stated how opposed I am to any sort of racism or discrimination.

I can make statements about your political beliefs because you constantly post them here.
I constantly post mine which you file under right wing because I disagree with you.

As for saying my comments could be copied and pasted as an argument against civil rights?
You just jumped the shark.

You can't play the ball so you play the man.

I'm not right wing, I'm not racist, I'm tolerant of everybody and I won't allow you to portray me as somebody opposed to civil rights just because you can't rationalise someone could possibly disagree with you and not be part of the right wing.

As for conflating the civil rights movement with today's BLM protests, they're not even close to be comparable, unless of course all you're able to see through your own ingrained and repressed racism is skin colour.

Upon reflection I feel it is only fair that you provide evidence that I am opposed to the notion of civil rights for the groups you mentioned.

Foxtrol

nullzero wrote: »

Parrot talking points?

I've continuously stated how opposed I am to any sort of racism or discrimination.

I can make statements about your political beliefs because you constantly post them here.
I constantly post mine which you file under right wing because I disagree with you.

As for saying my comments could be copied and pasted as an argument against civil rights?
You just jumped the shark.

You can't play the ball so you play the man.

I'm not right wing, I'm not racist, I'm tolerant of everybody and I won't allow you to portray me as somebody opposed to civil rights just because you can't rationalise someone could possibly disagree with you and not be part of the right wing.

As for conflating the civil rights movement with today's BLM protests, they're not even close to be comparable, unless of course all you're able to see through your own ingrained and repressed racism is skin colour.

Upon reflection I feel it is only fair that you provide evidence that I am opposed to the notion of civil rights for the groups you mentioned.

Asking you to look in the mirror when you make the pronouncement that I come from 'one side of the political divide in America' is not 'playing the man', though you calling me 'insane' certainly is an example of that.

As you've asked for examples of right wing talking points, in just the posts I've noticed in the 24 hours you've:

- claimed BLM teaches black people that they have no agency
- stated BLM never accept that there is any responsibility on the side of the victims
- claimed you 'cant comment' when examples of police double standards were pointed out to you
- deflected criticism of Rudy Giuliani's current actions by pointed out what he did decades ago
- tried an attempt at false equivalence between Trump currently refusing to concede the election and the democrats quickly conceding in 2016 but calling for an investigation into Russian interference

I'm not interested in keeping the discussions going on what our political views are, I dont think anyone else is interested in it either.

To get back on topic, the claims you've made to minimize the BLM were widely used to do the same to minimize other movements and excuse what they were protesting. Arguments like:

- 'Demanding civil rights is making out people into victims and that they have no agency'
- 'If civil rights were an issue no black person would ever have been successful'
- 'Sure there are some bad eggs in the RUC but to say it is systematic is going too far'

nullzero

Foxtrol wrote: »

Asking you to look in the mirror when you make the pronouncement that I come from 'one side of the political divide in America' is not 'playing the man', though you calling me 'insane' certainly is an example of that.

As you've asked for examples of right wing talking points, in just the posts I've noticed in the 24 hours you've:

- claimed BLM teaches black people that they have no agency
- stated BLM never accept that there is any responsibility on the side of the victims
- claimed you 'cant comment' when examples of police double standards were pointed out to you
- deflected criticism of Rudy Giuliani's current actions by pointed out what he did decades ago
- tried an attempt at false equivalence between Trump currently refusing to concede the election and the democrats quickly conceding in 2016 but calling for an investigation into Russian interference

I'm not interested in keeping the discussions going on what our political views are, I dont think anyone else is interested in it either.

To get back on topic, the claims you've made to minimize the BLM were widely used to do the same to minimize other movements and excuse what they were protesting. Arguments like:

- 'Demanding civil rights is making out people into victims and that they have no agency'
- 'If civil rights were an issue no black person would ever have been successful'
- 'Sure there are some bad eggs in the RUC but to say it is systematic is going too far'

I never used the word "victim" in relation to black people when discussing BLM. Do you feel all black people are victims? Do you need to save them? Yet another white saviour for a group of people so incapable of looking after their own interests that they need people like you to step in on their behalf?

I said I couldn't comment on why police made the decision to use PPE in one setting and not the other (I can't read their minds). I then stated that they should always wear their PPE at any such events (something you failed to mention).

I brought up something Rudy Guilliani could be remembered for in another thread when the question was posed about what he would be remembered for. I stated that even though he helped destroy the mafia he wasn't somebody I particularly liked( you failed to mention that as well surprisingly).

I raised the issue of Russian collusion in relation to Trump and his challenge over the legality of ballots because I feel there is some equivalence between the two situations, even though they are not the same as each other.
In my opinion both sides of the American political divide are nuts and act like spoilt children when they don't get their way, I suppose to you that means I'm a dyed in the wool republican and probably have an account on Storm front.

The last three "quotes" are not things I said or even alluded to and I'm not sure how they're relevant to me beyond you putting words in my mouth. These ideas are not things I have ever said or would ever agree with.

I challenged you to provide evidence that I'm opposed to civil rights and all you provided was more of the same preposterous opining you indulged in previously.

Biafranlivemat

nullzero wrote: »

If you're being honest you would admit there is more than one way to examine that information.

Just because you haven't been arrested and charged it doesn't mean that you are not involved in criminal activity.
Do you suggest that if somebody who is involved in criminal activity is smart enough to not get caught they are therefore not a criminal?

If police are shooting a disproportionate number of black men it is due to black men being disproportionately involved in crime. That is a saddening truth, and there are a huge number of reasons for that.

How that relates to my opinion on BLM is that BLM teaches black people that they have no agency over this and other issues and they are victims of the world they live in. This is demonstrably false, if it were true no black person would be successful in America or elsewhere and that isn't the case.

Black Lives most certainly matter, but the BLM narrative is something that refuses to accept responsibility on the part of some black people for the situations they find themselves in that they can influence themselves.

Are there racist cops in America? I have no doubt there is and they need to be rooted out.
Are all police forces systemically out to target black people who are minding their own business? Not a hope.

I believe that there are few Racists cops.
But
I strongly believe there are many Corrupt cops.

Biafranlivemat

Brian? wrote: »

Some ways are more accurate.



Technically, they are not.



True. So we're cool about using per capita statistics now?



That isn't the point of BLM. BLM was created to highlight a specific problem. The rest is filled in by your own bias I'm afraid.

“BLM was created to highlight a specific problem. “


It is the opposite, the blm mob used a made up problem/lie, to attack capitalism, Married couples and white people in general.

Biafranlivemat

Foxtrol wrote: »

You don't seem to be even able to be upfront and honest with yourself. Saying you aren't on either side means absolutely nothing when you continuously parrot the talking points from one side over and over again.

It is completely hypocritical of you to get your knickers in a twist regarding me pointing out your continued regurgitation of right wing talking points when one post earlier you made a similar claim about what you believed my political beliefs were, along with some childish name calling.






Basically all of this could be copied and pasted as an argument against Civil Rights in the US and closer to home in Northern Ireland for Catholics during the Troubles. I always find it so striking how hypocritical some Irish posters are with their feelings towards black people protesting police brutality while at the same time being the first people to say how bad the RUC were.

Anyone who compares the US police with the RUC , doesn't know what they are talking about.

Foxtrol

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

Anyone who compares the US police with the RUC , doesn't know what they are talking about.

Many black people in America would have a very different opinion to you.

Foxtrol

nullzero wrote: »

I never used the word "victim" in relation to black people when discussing BLM.

Once again you seem to have completely forgotten what you posted

nullzero wrote: »

I don't believe in BLM or any movement that tells people they are victims because of their skin colour

Do you feel all black people are victims? Do you need to save them? Yet another white saviour for a group of people so incapable of looking after their own interests that they need people like you to step in on their behalf?

I listen and based on additional research I believe that the black community are treated inequitably by the police. No saviour, just a supporter of their movement.

I said I couldn't comment on why police made the decision to use PPE in one setting and not the other (I can't read their minds). I then stated that they should always wear their PPE at any such events (something you failed to mention).

Yet you feel you can 'read the minds' of all those that are protesting.

I brought up something Rudy Guilliani could be remembered for in another thread when the question was posed about what he would be remembered for. I stated that even though he helped destroy the mafia he wasn't somebody I particularly liked( you failed to mention that as well surprisingly).

I raised the issue of Russian collusion in relation to Trump and his challenge over the legality of ballots because I feel there is some equivalence between the two situations, even though they are not the same as each other.
In my opinion both sides of the American political divide are nuts and act like spoilt children when they don't get their way, I suppose to you that means I'm a dyed in the wool republican and probably have an account on Storm front.

All off topic that I only mentioned because you asked. I said I had no interest in deep diving off topic.

The last three "quotes" are not things I said or even alluded to and I'm not sure how they're relevant to me beyond you putting words in my mouth. These ideas are not things I have ever said or would ever agree with.

I challenged you to provide evidence that I'm opposed to civil rights and all you provided was more of the same preposterous opining you indulged in previously.

I never said you opposed civil rights, I said the arguments you're making echo the ones that were made against those protesting civil rights and the equal treatment of Catholics in the north.

And again you appear to have amnesia of what you previously posted. Below are taken from your posts just yesterday and how those same types of arguments were used for other movements.

You talking about BLM:

nullzero wrote: »

BLM teaches black people that they have no agency over this and other issues and they are victims of the world they live in.

How the same arguments were used during the civil rights movement:

Foxtrol wrote: »

- 'Demanding civil rights is making out people into victims and that they have no agency'

You talking about BLM:

nullzero wrote: »

if it were true no black person would be successful in America or elsewhere and that isn't the case.

How the same arguments were used during the civil rights movement:

Foxtrol wrote: »

- 'If civil rights were an issue no black person would ever have been successful'

You excusing the actions of cops in the US:

nullzero wrote: »

Are there racist cops in America? I have no doubt there is and they need to be rooted out.
Are all police forces systemically out to target black people who are minding their own business? Not a hope.

How the same excuses were made for the RUC:

Foxtrol wrote: »

- 'Sure there are some bad eggs in the RUC but to say it is systematic is going too far'

Foxtrol

Biafranlivemat wrote: »

Anyone who compares the US police with the RUC , doesn't know what they are talking about.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Many black people in America would have a very different opinion to you.

Actually I'm really interested in which activities Biafranlivemat believes the RUC got up to that there aren't examples of cops in the US being involved in

nullzero

Foxtrol wrote: »

nullzero wrote: »

I never used the word "victim" in relation to black people when discussing BLM.

Once again you seem to have completely forgotten what you posted



I listen and based on additional research I believe that the black community are treated inequitably by the police. No saviour, just a supporter of their movement.



Yet you feel you can 'read the minds' of all those that are protesting.



All off topic that I only mentioned because you asked. I said I had no interest in deep diving off topic.



I never said you opposed civil rights, I said the arguments you're making echo the ones that were made against those protesting civil rights and the equal treatment of Catholics in the north.

Once again you appear to have amnesia of what you previously posted. Below are taken from your posts just yesterday and how those same types of arguments were used for other movements.

You talking about BLM:


How the same arguments were used during the civil rights movement:


You talking about BLM:


How the same arguments were used during the civil rights movement:


You excusing the actions of cops in the US:


How the same excuses were made for the RUC:

I referenced the word victim because its relevant to the mindset of the BLM movement. I do not see black people as victims however. Perhaps I didn't make that clear enough.

I've never said I could read the minds of protestors.

This continuing use of the civil rights movement in your argument is redundant.
Civil rights and BLM are not the same thing.

Stating that a certain argument could have been used to discredit civil rights is a red herring.

Any argument could be applied to a whole host of issues, beating that drum repeatedly doesn't make it any more relevant to the topic at hand.

I also never excused the actions of any cops, for somebody trying to beat me over the head with quotes of what I posted you're failing to comprehend a simple statement, instead inferring whatever it suits you to infer from it.
Just as a refresher here's what I said again... "
Are there racist cops in America? I have no doubt there is and they need to be rooted out.
Are all police forces systemically out to target black people who are minding their own business? Not a hope."

How that excuses anything I have no idea.

As for the RUC reference, there is really no comparison between the structure and behaviour of the RUC during the civil rights movement in Northern Ireland and the false perception of systemic anti black discrimination in modern day American police forces.

Can you provide evidence to support the idea of systemic racism in American police forces?
Some official document where this systemic racism and how it should be implemented is outlined for all officers?
Or some sort of recording obtained by any means where senior police officials have outlined their hatred of all black people and their plans to victimise them.
Surely there is evidence of the systemic racism beyond how police are perceived to behave?

nullzero

Foxtrol wrote: »

Many black people in America would have a very different opinion to you.

Most Americans of any colour wouldn't have a notion what the RUC was.

Potatoeman

There are probably plenty of black people against the BLM movements agenda to defund the police. I can’t imagine living in a high crime area and seeing this as a good idea.

Brian?

Potatoeman wrote: »

There are probably plenty of black people against the BLM movements agenda to defund the police. I can’t imagine living in a high crime area and seeing this as a good idea.

Defunding the police doesn't mean dismantling the police. Defunding the police is a method of forcing reform in police departments.