Police shootings, vigilante shootings, and Black Lives Matter

AbusesToilets

Foxtrol wrote: »

Nelson Mandela was part of a group that was involved in organised violent acts.

Despite how right wing media tries to portray them, this can't be said about the BLM movement. The worst I've seen are a few outliers loosely associated with the group refusing to condemn or excusing violence/looting (with nearly every person connected to the movement consistently calling for non-violence and condemning violence/looting).

https://twitter.com/i/status/1293247869793771521

One of the leaders of BLM in Chicago, condoning looting. Outliers is not an accurate description

Foxtrol

AbusesToilets wrote: »

https://twitter.com/i/status/1293247869793771521

One of the leaders of BLM in Chicago, condoning looting. Outliers is not an accurate description

Point to me evidence that she is one of the 'leaders' (unless you believe everything that is on a Fox News banner).

Foxtrol

Potatoeman wrote: »

Yes, he was and he got out of prison and looked for a peaceful solution.

Great, you accept his group did violent things then. It didn't mean the whole anti-apartheid movement was violent or not justified.

Reports have 500mil to 1 billion of property damage. That is not peaceful.

US Taxpayers have to pay out hundreds of millions a year due to police misconduct.

AbusesToilets

Foxtrol wrote: »

Point to me evidence that she is one of the 'leaders' (unless you believe everything that is on a Fox News banner).

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/blm-organizer-loot/

They’re like, ‘Oh, you support the looters.’ And yeah, we do, 100%. That’s reparations. And like however people choose to protest, especially if it was definitely in line with what happened with the shooting, which would be powerful to see people reacting … without organizers just being like, ‘We’re angry and this is what we’re gonna do. We’re gonna take the power back.’

I feel like these stores, these Macy’s, these Guccis, the PNC Banks, they’re not here for us. The city puts way more money and investment into spending time and protecting their spaces and making sure that they exist. And yet our people are constantly being pushed out of the city … Unemployment is incredibly high, like we are in an incredible situation, and the fact that anybody gives a s*** about these businesses over what is happening in this city right now and the pain that people are in and the suffering that is taking place, I don’t care. I will support the looters ‘till the end of the day. If that’s what they need to do in order to eat, then that’s what you’ve got to do to eat …. The whole idea of criminality is based on racism anyway, because criminality is punishing people for things that they have needed to do to survive or just the way that society has affected them with white supremacist B.S. So it’s like her deciding what is criminal and what isn’t.

You're trying to peddle the line about their being no organisation called BLM again? That it has no leaders. Just a spontaneous movement of like minded comrades?

Foxtrol

AbusesToilets wrote: »

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/blm-organizer-loot/

You're trying to peddle the line about their being no organisation called BLM again? That it has no leaders. Just a spontaneous movement of like minded comrades?

Nothing in that link or anything else you've posted is any evidence that she is what you claimed - 'One of the leaders of BLM in Chicago'. The even put her being an organizer and leader in quotations which obviously points to them not being able to verify it.

At the height of the protests there were dozens of protests every day in every city. Anyone can volunteer to help and you become 'an organizer'. It isn't a fancy title and doesn't bestow any power and definitely not the right to speak for the hundreds of thousands of people that protested in cities all over the country.

That woman is an outlier that you have to keep clinging to because you have nothing else to justify your views. It just shows how weak your argument is.

AbusesToilets

Foxtrol wrote: »

Nothing in that link or anything else you've posted is any evidence that she is what you claimed - 'One of the leaders of BLM in Chicago'. The even put her being an organizer and leader in quotations which obviously points to them not being able to verify it.

At the height of the protests there were dozens of protests every day in every city. Anyone can volunteer to help and you become 'an organizer'. It isn't a fancy title and doesn't bestow any power and definitely not the right to speak for the hundreds of thousands of people that protested in cities all over the country.

That woman is an outlier that you have to keep clinging to because you have nothing else to justify your views. It just shows how weak your argument is.

An outlier leading protests, an outlier interviewed by multiple media outlets. On and on with the denial of the evidence in clear view.

I suppose, given BLM's stated Marxist views, you can claim she is simply another comrade in the unending struggle against the capitalists.

Tell me how

Potatoeman wrote: »

Yes, he was and he got out of prison and looked for a peaceful solution.

Reports have 500mil to 1 billion of property damage. That is not peaceful.

BLM protests this summer were likely the largest protest movement in human history in terms of numbers attending.

Any damage is wrong but to paint it as a violent movement is ignoring the facts.

Meanwhile

Those cities collectively paid out $1.02 billion over those five years in such cases, which include alleged beatings, shootings and wrongful imprisonment. When claims related to car collisions, property damage and other police incidents are included, the total rose to more than $1.4 billion.

That's just the top 10 cities with the largest police Departments by the way.

Foxtrol

AbusesToilets wrote: »

An outlier leading protests, an outlier interviewed by multiple media outlets. On and on with the denial of the evidence in clear view.

One out of thousands involved in organising protests is the definition of an outlier. You're just highlighting again and again how weak your evidence is for what you claim.

I suppose, given BLM's stated Marxist views, you can claim she is simply another comrade in the unending struggle against the capitalists.

On fiscal policy I'd be to the right of nearly every mainstream Irish political party but feel free to continue with that nonsense.

Retr0gamer

AbusesToilets wrote: »

An outlier leading protests, an outlier interviewed by multiple media outlets. On and on with the denial of the evidence in clear view.

I suppose, given BLM's stated Marxist views, you can claim she is simply another comrade in the unending struggle against the capitalists.

Have you got anything other than anecdotal evidence or are you just going to paint all protesters with the same brush as rioters and looters that should be happy with their lot and bow down to their overlords and suppressors?

Anecdotal evidence seems to be all you right wingers have.

Potatoeman

Foxtrol wrote: »

Great, you accept his group did violent things then. It didn't mean the whole anti-apartheid movement was violent or not justified.



US Taxpayers have to pay out hundreds of millions a year due to police misconduct.

If the violence continued it would have lead to a civil war. It’s the same thing, violence on both sides needs to be denounced.

Foxtrol

Potatoeman wrote: »

If the violence continued it would have lead to a civil war. It’s the same thing, violence on both sides needs to be denounced.

And on the left it is, outside of some complete randomers. Despite what right wing media says, Biden has directly denounced violence again and again since the protests began.

On the other side you have Trump squirm every time he isn't reading a teleprompter and is asked to denounce those on the right involved in violence. Here he is yesterday having another opportunity to denounce white supremacists that support him and he yet again doesn't. Add to that the Trump administration putting pressure on law enforcement to increase their assessment of the risks of violence from the left and decrease their assessments of violence from the right.

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1311384286570917893?s=20

Quin_Dub

And you have this

In the days after 17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse was charged with fatally shooting two protesters in Kenosha, Wisconsin, the Trump administration reportedly instructed federal law-enforcement officials to be sympathetic toward the alleged shooter when talking publicly about the case. NBC News reports that it obtained internal Department of Homeland Security talking points that prepared officials for questions from the media.

Potatoeman

Foxtrol wrote: »

And on the left it is, outside of some complete randomers. Despite what right wing media says, Biden has directly denounced violence again and again since the protests began.

On the other side you have Trump squirm every time he isn't reading a teleprompter and is asked to denounce those on the right involved in violence. Here he is yesterday having another opportunity to denounce white supremacists that support him and he yet again doesn't. Add to that the Trump administration putting pressure on law enforcement to increase their assessment of the risks of violence from the left and decrease their assessments of violence from the right.

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1311384286570917893?s=20

Is it that hard to say? This is politics 101.

AbusesToilets

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Have you got anything other than anecdotal evidence or are you just going to paint all protesters with the same brush as rioters and looters that should be happy with their lot and bow down to their overlords and suppressors?

Anecdotal evidence seems to be all you right wingers have.

Well there's north of $1bn of property damage, along with multiple assaults, rapes and deaths.

So, obviously nothing at all. Carry on.

Foxtrol

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Well there's north of $1bn of property damage, along with multiple assaults, rapes and deaths.

So, obviously nothing at all. Carry on.

Just like the hundreds of millions of dollars every year that US taxpayers pay out due to wrong doing by Police...

AbusesToilets

Foxtrol wrote: »

Just like the hundreds of millions of dollars every year that US taxpayers pay out due to wrong doing by Police...

Just like it, alright. Of course, there's no money for the hundreds of black people murdered every year by their own. Not that they've mattered. No protests or riots for them. No profit in it.

Foxtrol

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Just like it, alright. Of course, there's no money for the hundreds of black people murdered every year by their own. Not that they've mattered. No protests or riots for them. No profit in it.

Not a good look for your point of view to use whataboutery between cops and violent criminals.

I expect cops to be held to a higher standard but clearly you don't

AbusesToilets

Foxtrol wrote: »

Not a good look for your point of view to use whataboutery between cops and violent criminals.

I expect cops to be held to a higher standard but clearly you don't

Presumably, the state paying out in the event of a wrongful death, is indicative of the Police being held accountable, no?

Who among BLM etc is holding the rioters accountable? Certainly not you or others in your cadre on here.

AbusesToilets

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

The US GDP is down -9% which is more than most industrialised countries

200,000 deaths with another 200,000 (best case scenario) before end of year to come

This drop wiped out 2 trillion from US GDP

Trump has made the deathtoll and the drop in GDP worse with his constant mishandling of this crisis. At least half the deaths and half the drop in GDP is directly related to his policies of not supporting mask wearing and trying to reopen too early.

so to quote yourself "So, obviously nothing at all. Carry on"

A billion is nothing when compared to a trillion already lost. Most of this damage is directly attributed to Trump stocking racial hatred for political reasons.

What relevance does Covid have to the discussion topic of this thread? Perhaps only in respect to the pass given to protesters to ignore lockdown measures in yhe middle of a pandemic. Taking whataboutery to new levels.

Tell me how

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Just like it, alright. Of course, there's no money for the hundreds of black people murdered every year by their own. Not that they've mattered. No protests or riots for them. No profit in it.

You and others complaining about BLM didn't give a sh*t about these murdered black people until they could be used as a counterpoint to the current protests so you can go easy on the sanctimony.

AbusesToilets

Tell me how wrote: »

You and others complaining about BLM didn't give a sh*t about these murdered black people until they could be used as a counterpoint to the current protests so you can go easy on the sanctimony.

The irony of claiming sanctimony as a staunch supporter for BLM. I care for those communities the same as I would for any that's suffering, and would want to see them raised up. BLM gives zero ****s about them, as has been born out repeatedly by their actions.

BLM is an organisation of professional grifters and outrage merchants. They are the pigs in the farmhouse, happy to direct the other farm animals to work for them and reap the profits

Retr0gamer

BLM the so called organisation isn't BLM the movement. Again anecdotal information painting them all with the one brush. This is the same nonsense where people like you paint all protesters as Antifa, which is a movement not an organisation. And yes the violence shown by people that associate themselves with the nebulous movement that is antifa is bad these are just a handful of crazies.

You can't even see what that all this is is right wing extremist groups trying to normalise their own organisations by lying about extremist organisations on the other side of the political spectrum.

Which makes no sense because a left wing extremist wants to give you free health care and a livable wage not wreck your property. Anarchist is what you are looking for.

But it's impossible to change the mind of someone like yourself as you've been indoctrinated by the likes of the express and daily mail and whatever confirmation bias loop you've gotten yourself into on twitter and social media.

Water John

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The irony of claiming sanctimony as a staunch supporter for BLM. I care for those communities the same as I would for any that's suffering, and would want to see them raised up. BLM gives zero ****s about them, as has been born out repeatedly by their actions.

BLM is an organisation of professional grifters and outrage merchants. They are the pigs in the farmhouse, happy to direct the other farm animals to work for them and reap the profits

So you're saying the three women who founded BLM did so for money and have got very rich from it? Please show us the evidence, from a credible source.

Foxtrol

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Presumably, the state paying out in the event of a wrongful death, is indicative of the Police being held accountable, no?

No, that is a sign that I and other tax payers being held accountable for the actions of police.

Who among BLM etc is holding the rioters accountable? Certainly not you or others in your cadre on here.

The fact that they are denounced by nearly everyone involved in protests (aside from a handful of randomers) and every politician on the left. What more do you expect? BLM nor I are the police and those that the police catch rioting or looting aren't given the cushy treatment that criminal cops receive.

Foxtrol

AbusesToilets wrote: »

What relevance does Covid have to the discussion topic of this thread? Perhaps only in respect to the pass given to protesters to ignore lockdown measures in yhe middle of a pandemic. Taking whataboutery to new levels.

COVID has killed more police officers than anything else this year.

Like the GOP, you only feign to care about police when they can be used as a prop for your argument.

AbusesToilets

Water John wrote: »

So you're saying the three women who founded BLM did so for money and have got very rich from it? Please show us the evidence, from a credible source.

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/gyzs79/i_am_kailee_scales_managing_director_for_black/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

Have a read of the AMA Kailee Scales, BLM's managing Director, did on Reddit. Note her sidestepping of any answer relating to financial transparency with respect to donations received. Also note her redusal to disavow the support for anti-Jewish ideology, or general recism towards white and other groups. Basic questions to the substance of their policy ideas, such as defunding the police or community engagement *crickets*

AbusesToilets

Foxtrol wrote: »

No, that is a sign that I and other tax payers being held accountable for the actions of police.



The fact that they are denounced by nearly everyone involved in protests (aside from a handful of randomers) and every politician on the left. What more do you expect? BLM nor I are the police and those that the police catch rioting or looting aren't given the cushy treatment that criminal cops receive.

Denounced, yet you defend their positions and rationale constantly. Politicians and celebrities falling over themselves to explain away and defend the rioters. You have been exposed repeatedly for the paucity of your arguments, yet you throw them back out there.

There is no systematic racism in US policing. The stats show that. BLM is an organisation set up to profit off of gullible middle class white people, being promoted by politicians to further their electoral goals. It does **** all to address the actual issues facing black communities, as evidenced by their utter silence about the level of violence occuring week in, week out in places like Baltimore and Chicago. Yet they'll be marching in the streets when a criminal gets himself shot for fighting police.

Foxtrol

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Denounced, yet you defend their positions and rationale constantly. Politicians and celebrities falling over themselves to explain away and defend the rioters. You have been exposed repeatedly for the paucity of your arguments, yet you throw them back out there.

There is no systematic racism in US policing. The stats show that. BLM is an organisation set up to profit off of gullible middle class white people, being promoted by politicians to further their electoral goals. It does **** all to address the actual issues facing black communities, as evidenced by their utter silence about the level of violence occuring week in, week out in places like Baltimore and Chicago. Yet they'll be marching in the streets when a criminal gets himself shot for fighting police.

The logic you're using is akin to saying everyone that believes in a united Ireland 'defends' republican terrorists.

It is utter nonsense to say a person can't at the same time believe in an idea while also disagreeing with the methods some other people take to make the idea a reality.

AbusesToilets

Foxtrol wrote: »

The logic you're using is akin to saying everyone that believes in a united Ireland 'defends' republican terrorists.

It is utter nonsense to say a person can't at the same time believe in an idea while also disagreeing with the methods some other people take to make the idea a reality.

What are the ideas you believe in then?
Do you believe there is systemic racism in policing in the United states?
Do you believe in blm's Marxist ideology?
do you believe that looting and writing is excusable as a form of reparations?
Do you do you support the widely stated anti-jewish/ anti- white sentiment?

Foxtrol

AbusesToilets wrote: »

What are the ideas you believe in then?
Do you believe there is systemic racism in policing in the United states?
Do you believe in blm's Marxist ideology?
do you believe that looting and writing is excusable as a form of reparations?
Do you do you support the widely stated anti-jewish/ anti- white sentiment?

Very much so the bold, though it needs to be extended to throughout the entire 'law and order' and even further into the wider US society.

I have never seen a protest for any of the non-bolded items. Once again you're trying to conflate the views of BLM organization (and even random members of the organization) with the wider BLM movement. This has been explained to you dozens of times at this point and you either refuse to listen or are unable to comprehend the concept that they aren't the same thing.