Police shootings, vigilante shootings, and Black Lives Matter

AbusesToilets

everlast75 wrote: »

I noticed the way you cannot be certain on that point...

Yes, and? Does that change the veracity of the rest of what I said?

Quin_Dub

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

I agree he needed to be arrested,

I seen a short video of the shooting (yes most likely edited)
But as many people know police in America generally draw there weapons when a person is refusing to cooporate.
The man refused and they tried to taser him, when that didnt work they shot him,
but in there "slight defence" the lad opened his car door and reached in.
9 Shots though was overkill imo.

I've seen videos of police officers just randomly pulling a car over and then getting shot at.
The country is nuts for fire arms, and thats why they act the way they do.
The lad shouldn't of leaned into is car, it does look as if hes going to grab something. And if its your life or his, your gonna pull the trigger.

Again I only saw a short video of it and most likely edited.

Remember , they went from pulling up in their cars to shooting the guy in less that 2 minutes.

There's no conversation there , there's now "Calm down , let's all take a breath" or whatever.

As I've said before, the fundamental problem with the Police in the US isn't necessarily Racism (although it absolutely does play a huge role) it's the fact that they aren't really "Police" in terms of how we think about a typical Police officer here or in most other countries. Tey are an armed response unit.

Their entire training is premised on "taking down the bad guy" and reacting with overwhelming force to every single situation.

They are hammers and everyone looks like a nail to them.

Tell me how

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Absolutely, don't believe I've ever argued against it. That doesn't remove responsibility for criminal actions. There's a choice there, same as for anyone else.

It's not the same for everyone else.

The cause and effect of a black person in a disenfranchised neighbourhood is going to be very different to that of an educated wealth 'leafy suburbs' type.

droidus

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I'm not entirely convinced either, but Blake's actions in response to the police drove the outcome. If he had simply stopped as commanded, at any point, he likely doesn't get shot.

Why didnt this guy get shot?

https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1299490732194107397

AbusesToilets

droidus wrote: »

Why didnt this guy get shot?

https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1299490732194107397

It's a different circumstance, the officer didn't feel it was sufficiently threatening of a situation presumably.

briany

droidus wrote: »

Why didnt this guy get shot?

> Black people used to be slaves in the States
> They were freed from that but continued to face a hangover from that of discrimination and oppression
> This discrimination has contributed to a continuing wealth gap between blacks and whites

> This has led to black communities that are deprived of economic opportunity and have higher crime rates
> Cops have had to deal with black crime and a prejudice has formed within their ranks that blacks are more given to crime and are more dangerous to deal with.
> Cops are therefore more nervous around black people
> Cops therefore have more of a tendency to react harshly around them than they would in the same situation with a white person.

Fr Tod Umptious

droidus wrote: »

Why didnt this guy get shot?

https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1299490732194107397

Because hundreds of thousands of interactions between police and people of all races happen every year.
Many can be aggressive like that one.

But very very few end up in shootings.

So I'd say there are plenty more examples like the one posted where no one of any colour gets shot.

Does that answer your question, or does it not suit the narrative you want to push ?

Fr Tod Umptious

briany wrote: »

> Black people used to be slaves in the States
> They were freed from that but continued to face a hangover from that of discrimination and oppression
> This discrimination has contributed to a continuing wealth gap between blacks and whites

> This has led to black communities that are deprived of economic opportunity and have higher crime rates
> Cops have had to deal with black crime and a prejudice has formed within their ranks that blacks are more given to crime and are more dangerous to deal with.
> Cops are therefore more nervous around black people
> Cops therefore have more of a tendency to react harshly around them than they would in the same situation with a white person.

Very similar to our own attitude towards travellers.

AbusesToilets

Tell me how wrote: »

It's not the same for everyone else.

The cause and effect of a black person in a disenfranchised neighbourhood is going to be very different to that of an educated wealth 'leafy suburbs' type.

Is there an external force, putting a gun in their hands and making them shoot? You can make every excuse you want, but they choose the life they lead, just as those make it out and life successful, productive lives choose differently.

Carfacemandog

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Is there an external force, putting a gun in their hands and making them shoot?

Would you say the same for Kyle Rittenhouse?

AbusesToilets

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Would you say the same for Kyle Rittenhouse?

I'd say the multiple people assaulting him were sufficient external force to warrant a response, but you already know my thoughts on the incident. He made his choice in the moment, and will.live the consequences, whatever they end up being.

Tell me how

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I'd say the multiple people assaulting him were sufficient external force to warrant a response, but you already know my thoughts on the incident. He made his choice in the moment, and will.live the consequences, whatever they end up being.

With this logic, an active shooter is only defending themselves.

He was attacked after he killed someone. The crowd were acting in self defense.

AbusesToilets

Tell me how wrote: »

With this logic, an active shooter is only defending themselves.

He was attacked after he killed someone. The crowd were acting in self defense.

Once again, you lie and twist events, despite clear video evidence to contrary. Why so? He was attacked before he shot anyone, as the video shows. He fired the second time after being knocked to the ground and attacked with a deadly weapon. At no point was he agressing towards the crowd, so claiming they acted in self defense is ludicrous.

Carfacemandog

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I'd say the multiple people assaulting him were sufficient external force to warrant a response, but you already know my thoughts on the incident. He made his choice in the moment, and will.live the consequences, whatever they end up being.

We don't know what happened prior to him entering the video, other than that shots were fired, so you can leave the excuses aside and let me know what external force exactly it was that put the gun in his hands and marched him to Kenosha, in a state he isn't even from?

briany

Rittenhouse had no business being there. He wasn't defending his business, nor was he a registered EMT. His posse asked to be depustised by the police and that request was refused. He was a vigilante.

That's not to say he wasn't acting in self-defense at the point when he was down on the ground, but that is to say he was utterly stupid to come down in the first place, and that'll count against him in court.

AbusesToilets

Carfacemandog wrote: »

We don't know what happened prior to him entering the video, other than that shots were fired, so you can leave the excuses aside and let me know what external force exactly it was that put the gun in his hands and marched him to Kenosha, in a state he isn't even from?

We have video showing exactly what happened. He was with a group, ostensibly guarding the business they were at. The BLM crowd set a dumpster on fire, Rittenhouse put it out, which incensed the crowd. So they attacked him

Steve012

Maybe too many "cops" have seen video's like these.

I remember about 15 years ago watching an American police show, with that bad boys theme choon to it,
Police had stopped a car with 5 white teenagers at night, long an short of it. a teenage girl went for her phone in back seat and one cop opened fire the the second officer, 4 teenagers we killed on the spot. no guns, or drugs found.

Nasty to see was that.

Carfacemandog

AbusesToilets wrote: »

We have video showing exactly what happened. He was with a group, ostensibly guarding the business they were at. The BLM crowd set a dumpster on fire, Rittenhouse put it out, which incensed the crowd. So they attacked him

Link me to said video that shows the full incident and why Kyle Rittenhouse specifically was chased please.

And again let me know exactly which external force forced Rittenhouse to a whole different state before putting an AR15 in Rittenhouse in his hands in the first place?

AbusesToilets

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Link me to said video that shows the full incident and why Kyle Rittenhouse specifically was chased please.

And again let me know exactly which external force forced Rittenhouse to a whole different state before putting an AR15 in Rittenhouse in his hands in the first place?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts43EskooaA

This video breaks it down. Prior to this interaction, Rittenhouse was busy cleaning graffiti.

Fr Tod Umptious

Steve012 wrote: »

Maybe too many "cops" have seen video's like these.

I remember about 15 years ago watching an American police show, with that bad boys theme choon to it,
Police had stopped a car with 5 white teenagers at night, long an short of it. a teenage girl went for her phone in back seat and one cop opened fire the the second officer, 4 teenagers we killed on the spot. no guns, or drugs found.

Nasty to see was that.

I'm going to call BS on that.

The show with Bad Boys as the theme music was "Cops"
It used to air on Saturday nights on Fox.
I seriously doubt that a scene were people are shot dead would have made it to prime time network television.

I used to watch it all the time.
It usually involved them pulling over some toothless wonder for a broken tail light and finding that he had a hooker in the car and 20 bags of weed stuffed under the seat.

Carfacemandog

AbusesToilets wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts43EskooaA

This video breaks it down. Prior to this interaction, Rittenhouse was busy cleaning graffiti.

So you don't have a video showing exactly what happened and why he was being chased.

I see you're uncomfortable with answering what external power forced him to go to another state and arm himself with an AR15, not surprised though.

AbusesToilets

Carfacemandog wrote: »

So you don't have a video showing exactly what happened and why he was being chased.

I see you're uncomfortable with answering what external power forced him to go to another state and arm himself with an AR15, not surprised though.

It literally shows the event leading up to it? Did you not watch it at all?

His motivation to go to kenosha was to protect the businesses and clean graffiti seemingly. You appear determined to willfully misinterpret my statement about an external power. That was clearly made in relation to taking responsibility for one's actions, which is not something applicable to Rittenhouse.

https://twitter.com/livesmattershow/status/1299058504813035520?s=20 the relevant tweet, since you struggle to watch the video

Steve012

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I'm going to call BS on that.

The show with Bad Boys as the theme music was "Cops"
It used to air on Saturday nights on Fox.
I seriously doubt that a scene were people are shot dead would have made it to prime time network television.

I used to watch it all the time.
It usually involved them pulling over some toothless wonder for a broken tail light and finding that he had a hooker in the car and 20 bags of weed stuffed under the seat.

Nah, it was on that after watershed

Carfacemandog

AbusesToilets wrote: »

It literally shows the event leading up to it? Did you not watch it at all?

His motivation to go to kenosha was to protect the businesses and clean graffiti seemingly. You appear determined to willfully misinterpret my statement about an external power. That was clearly made in relation to taking responsibility for one's actions, which is not something applicable to Rittenhouse.

https://twitter.com/livesmattershow/status/1299058504813035520?s=20 the relevant tweet, since you struggle to watch the video

I had already seen that video in full, and as I said it does not show exactly what happened. We have no idea if someone randomly targeted Rittenhouse out of nowhere, if Rittenhouse did something like sicker punch someone, if any of the gunshots we can hear immediately before Rittenhouse entered the frame in the frame where we see him kill someone were fired by him or others.

The irony is your "external force" comment was talking about making excuses for people committing violence, yet here you are doing the exact same thing.

Rittenhouse, who has a proven violent past, decided to do what appears to be breaking the law in open carrying an AR15 after curfew in a riot zone under 18, and in an entirely different state to where he lives. I would be interested to know what led him to this mindset exactly (and exactly how he got his hands on an AR15 as well as from whom), just as I am interested to know why gang members or the likes also seem attracted to violent situations and where those trails lead.

droidus

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Because hundreds of thousands of interactions between police and people of all races happen every year.
Many can be aggressive like that one.

But very very few end up in shootings.

So I'd say there are plenty more examples like the one posted where no one of any colour gets shot.

Does that answer your question, or does it not suit the narrative you want to push ?

I just find it interesting that a set of behaviours (aggression, refusal to comply, entering a car) that apparently justifies murder in one case seemingly doesn't justify it in another case.

Retr0gamer

Anyone thinking it's ok to take a human life to protect property is utterly disgusting.

Kyle Rittenhouse seems like a classic incel and I'm not surprised people tried to disarm a teenager that looked like he could have been taking part in a school massacre.

AbusesToilets

Carfacemandog wrote: »

I had already seen that video in full, and as I said it does not show exactly what happened. We have no idea if someone randomly targeted Rittenhouse out of nowhere, if Rittenhouse did something like sicker punch someone, if any of the gunshots we can hear immediately before Rittenhouse entered the frame in the frame where we see him kill someone were fired by him or others.

The irony is your "external force" comment was talking about making excuses for people committing violence, yet here you are doing the exact same thing.

Rittenhouse, who has a proven violent past, decided to do what appears to be breaking the law in open carrying an AR15 after curfew in a riot zone under 18, and in an entirely different state to where he lives. I would be interested to know what led him to this mindset exactly (and exactly how he got his hands on an AR15 as well as from whom), just as I am interested to know why gang members or the likes also seem attracted to violent situations and where those trails lead.

Proven violent past, based on him apparently intervening in a fight involving his sister, versus a convicted peadophile and a convicted domestic abuser. Right on.

As to your claim that we don't know what sparked the fight, it's readily apparent that Rosenbaum and BLM did. He clearly and repeatedly looked to escalate to physical confrontation. There is also clear evidence of a BLM member firing a pistol into the air. All of which has been posted in this thread and the one on AH previously.

Please continue your false assertions, in the face of clear evidence to the contrary.

AbusesToilets

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Anyone thinking it's ok to take a human life to protect property is utterly disgusting.

Kyle Rittenhouse seems like a classic incel and I'm not surprised people tried to disarm a teenager that looked like he could have been taking part in a school massacre.

Anyone who thinks it's ok to destroy other people's property is utterly disgusting. Am I doing it right? Glad to see you're following the example of BLM's leaders on condoning violence and destruction in the name of justice.

rossie1977

If Kyle Rittenhouse was black I wonder how far he would have gotten...

And a video from Drew Hernandez isn't evidence. He is a well known hardcore Trump supporter than dresses up as antifa attempting to incite violence then video it.

AbusesToilets

rossie1977 wrote: »

If Kyle Rittenhouse was black I wonder how far he would have gotten...

And a video from Drew Hernandez isn't evidence. He is a well known hardcore Trump supporter than dresses up as antifa attempting to incite violence then video it.

Are you claiming he doctored the video, because it's pretty clear in its own right.