The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

FrancieBrady

christy c wrote: »

You may not have understood me but I definitely don't know what you're babbling about now. Good luck.

What's to understand. You asked me to come up with a way for FG to counter SF without referencing the 'RA.

christy c wrote:

I'm talking in general, how they highlight the SF BS. Any ideas?

You yourself think FG are 'mostly ****e'.

Jaysus Christy!

Truthvader

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm literally just somebody who's watched the pain and misery FG's housing policy has wrought over the last half decade and had friends literally crying on my shoulder as they have to move backwards in life when their rent spiralled so far out of control that despite hard working, well paying careers, they had to move back in with their families as they approached their thirties. And who's watched how the government of the day collectively told those people to go f*ck themselves and get used to sh!ttier and sh!ttier qualities of life because obviously the most important thing about housing as a sector is for speculators to make vast amounts money without doing anything to actually earn it.

That's literally it. FG like the status quo, and not only they, but those who benefit from that status quo are f*cking terrified of SF. As a friend of mine tweeted after the election, the fact that all of the banks and institutional landlords took a stock market tumble as soon as the prospect of SF in government became a plausible reality is all you need to show that the current status quo is stacked in favour of them - and, by definition, against ordinary people. Because when one sector earns its money by exploiting the sh!t out of another sector, what's good news for the latter is bad news for the former. It's that simple.

I'm a person who has empathy for my fellow citizens. I've seen too many friends have their independent lives snatched away from them by the greedy c*nts who hoard property as if life is a game of monopoly to ever vote for anyone who isn't openly in favour of tackling those people head on and preventing them from continuing this exploitation.

Are you 13? Rent "spiralled out of control" as you out it (I assume you mean increased) because everyone was earning so much money they outbid one another for rental property (and purchases) and prices were driven up. As night follows day that is what happens in a boom economy.

If you think the morons and thugs in Sinn Fein are the answer because the stock market took a tumble and it gratified your sense of rage and jealousy against "THE RICH" you should take a good look at the countries who voted in dysfunctional left wing fantasists and see where they ended up. And that is without the extra criminal thug element Sinn Fein brings to the table.

JohnnyFlash

What's great about SF is you can see how incompetent they are in Northern Ireland. All populist, bullshít, and tiresome nationalism.

A joke of a party if they didn't have serial killers pulling the strings and sitting in the Dáil.

Truthvader

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

What's great about SF is you can see how incompetent they are in Northern Ireland. All populist, bullshít, and tiresome nationalism.

A joke of a party if they didn't have serial killers pulling the strings and sitting in the Dáil.

And in the North they have the advantage of endlessly feeding off the money train extorted from the Brits in exchange for not killing people. The whole place would have gone down the toilet long ago if it existed in any kind of real world

FrancieBrady

I often wonder how people like Truth and Johnny coped after the major wars or our own conflicts/wars, how they allowed men and women who had done unspeakable things adjust back into normal society. How do you begin to trust someone who has bombed a town or village or a hospital or shot somebody?

I personally think the only way is via a truth recovery commission. The Irish state locked away the testimonies until everyone was dead...maybe that is a way to do it also?
But did that just prolong the civil war in politics here?

What do you think Truth and Johnny, how do we progress to a normalised society, could you spell out what it is you want to happen?

New Era

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm literally just somebody who's watched the pain and misery FG's housing policy has wrought over the last half decade and had friends literally crying on my shoulder as they have to move backwards in life when their rent spiralled so far out of control that despite hard working, well paying careers, they had to move back in with their families as they approached their thirties. And who's watched how the government of the day collectively told those people to go f*ck themselves and get used to sh!ttier and sh!ttier qualities of life because obviously the most important thing about housing as a sector is for speculators to make vast amounts money without doing anything to actually earn it.

That's literally it. FG like the status quo, and not only they, but those who benefit from that status quo are f*cking terrified of SF. As a friend of mine tweeted after the election, the fact that all of the banks and institutional landlords took a stock market tumble as soon as the prospect of SF in government became a plausible reality is all you need to show that the current status quo is stacked in favour of them - and, by definition, against ordinary people. Because when one sector earns its money by exploiting the sh!t out of another sector, what's good news for the latter is bad news for the former. It's that simple.

I'm a person who has empathy for my fellow citizens. I've seen too many friends have their independent lives snatched away from them by the greedy c*nts who hoard property as if life is a game of monopoly to ever vote for anyone who isn't openly in favour of tackling those people head on and preventing them from continuing this exploitation.

On the money, brilliant post. The red carpet that was dished out to the vulture funds during the economic crash by Fg, led by minister for finance at the time Michael Noonan was the greatest betrayal of our citizens. Simply unforgivable and we are counting the cost of this most provocative policy that any political party has ever implemented since the foundation of the state. Profit over people is the FG motto these days.

I don't think that the troubles or the past is that big of a concern among Irish people. I'm not dismissing the impact of the troubles, but issues like housing, keeping a roof over your heads, putting food on the table, struggling to pay your mortgage, rising rents, and the never ending increases in the cost of living is of most pressing concern to Irish people. They feel that SF offer them the hope that they will take these issues in the above far more seriously than the political establishment are.

SF talk the good game 're putting the ordinary citizens in the street interests ahead of narrow minded and vested interests of individuals of huge wealth and their influence with their political friends. Even if you don't believe that SF can't deliver on that promise alone, it does ring the right tone of people who feel let down, left behind and feel forgotten about by the political upper class.

SF as a party or brand is a source of lively debate and contention. It's clear from reading comments here from posters on boards.ie that everyone has an opinion on where they stand on the party and to be fair there's constructive pros and cons from both sides of the argument. I still believe that the next general election and if you read the Irish examiner this morning, we might be heading to the polls much sooner than you think, is SF's big chance of getting MLM as taoiseach and with a huge mandate too. They might not get an better opportunity to achieve this ambition. Interesting times await for sure.

Hamsterchops

New Era wrote: »

I still believe that the next general election and if you read the Irish examiner this morning, we might be heading to the polls much sooner than you think, is SF's big chance of getting MLM as taoiseach and with a huge mandate too. They might not get an better opportunity to achieve this ambition. Interesting times await for sure.

Wow, and what a shocking thought that is

Total mayhem with the Shinners at the helm, I mean total meltdown and maybe even trouble up North, when they try too hard to pull NI out of the UK (before it's time to do so), not that ever will be, but at least FG & FF know how to avoid trouble up North while SF will be stirring it up big time!

Witnessing all the Shinners & IRA people at that big Covid friendly IRA funeral a few weeks ago should be enough to stop most normal people from actually voting for them as our Government

The very thought is madness.
Mary Lou as Taoiseach, yeah right

JohnnyFlash

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Wow, and what a shocking thought that is

Total mayhem with the Shinners at the helm, I mean total meltdown and maybe even trouble up North, when they try too hard to pull NI out of the UK (before it's time to do so), not that ever will be, but at least FG & FF know how to avoid trouble up North while SF will be stirring it up big time!

Witnessing all the Shinners & IRA people at that big Covid friendly IRA funeral a few weeks ago should be enough to stop most normal people from actually voting for them as our Government

The very thought is madness.
Mary Lou as Taoiseach, yeah right

The main problem with SF coming to power in the Republic of Ireland is that they don't recognise the legitimacy of the State, the defence forces, or the constitution.

You'd have a Minister of Defence who wouldn't recognise the legitimacy of the Gardaí and the Army for example. Or a Minister of Health whose stated goal is to 'break those Free State bastards'.

You might even have Dessie Ellis as a Minister - a man linked to at least 50 murders.

Charming stuff. Some people just want to watch the world burn.

maccored

the anti shinners are spinning themselves in circles and try to bait responses. this thread is hilarious.

dundalkfc10

maccored wrote: »

the anti shinners are spinning themselves in circles and try to bait responses. this thread is hilarious.

Great viewing

JohnnyFlash

maccored wrote: »

the anti shinners are spinning themselves in circles and try to bait responses. this thread is hilarious.

Not trying to bait, dude.



Laying out the facts. SF don't recognise the legitimacy of the Irish Republic. The goal of SF isn't to get back the 6 counties, attach them to the Republic, and have a huge big street party. It's aim is to dissolve both, and create a new 32 county socialist republic. They don't recognise the legitimacy of Óglaigh na hÉireann or Bunreacht na hÉireann. That's why their current health spokesperson was drunkly roaring about 'breaking those Free State bastards'.



SF believe the PIRA were the legitimate provisional defence forces of Ireland. Bobby Storey was a senior member of staff of what they believe is the legitimate army of Ireland, and was therefore due their equivalent of a State funeral. It's also why the celebrated the release of the murderers of Jerry McCabe - it was a military operation against a legitimate target.



Now they don't go on about this sort of stuff as much, and they don't publish their constitution on their website. The goals haven't changed though.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Not trying to bait, dude.



Laying out the facts. SF don't recognise the legitimacy of the Irish Republic. The goal of SF isn't to get back the 6 counties, attach them to the Republic, and have a huge big street party. It's aim is to dissolve both, and create a new 32 county socialist republic. They don't recognise the legitimacy of Óglaigh na hÉireann or Bunreacht na hÉireann. That's why their current health spokesperson was drunkly roaring about 'breaking those Free State bastards'.



SF believe the PIRA were the legitimate provisional defence forces of Ireland. Bobby Storey was a senior member of staff of what they believe is the legitimate army of Ireland, and was therefore due their equivalent of a State funeral. It's also why the celebrated the release of the murderers of Jerry McCabe - it was a military operation against a legitimate target.



Now they don't go on about this sort of stuff as much, and they don't publish their constitution on their website. The goals haven't changed though.

The 1970's wants it's political theories back.

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 1970's wants it's political theories back.

What theories, Francie?


It's the stated aims of SF. It's in their constitution. They don't believe the Republic of Ireland has yet been established:




a. End British rule in Ireland.
b. Achieve territorial unification, political independence and sovereignty.
c. Establish a Democratic Socialist Republic.
d. Bring the Proclamation of the Republic of Easter 1916 into effective operation and to establish the Republic, representative of the people of all Ireland, based on that Proclamation.
e. Seek a mandate to establish in the Republic a system of social justice based on Irish republican and socialist principles in accordance with the Proclamation of the Republic of 1916 and the Democratic Programme of the First Dáil Éireann in 1919 and by a just distribution and effective control of the nation’s wealth and resources, and to institute a system of government suited to the particular needs of the people.

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I often wonder how people like Truth and Johnny coped after the major wars or our own conflicts/wars, how they allowed men and women who had done unspeakable things adjust back into normal society. How do you begin to trust someone who has bombed a town or village or a hospital or shot somebody?

I personally think the only way is via a truth recovery commission. The Irish state locked away the testimonies until everyone was dead...maybe that is a way to do it also?
But did that just prolong the civil war in politics here?

What do you think Truth and Johnny, how do we progress to a normalised society, could you spell out what it is you want to happen?

More slithery equivocation from the Sinn Fen fan club. Again trying to locate their criminal campaign as some kind of "war".

Either way the answer to people who did unspeakable things (Gerry Adams, Martin Ferris, Dessie Ellis and Co) is the Nuremburg trial followed by a quick hanging.

Truthvader

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

What theories, Francie?


It's the stated aims of SF. It's in their constitution. They don't believe the Republic of Ireland has yet been established:




a. End British rule in Ireland.
b. Achieve territorial unification, political independence and sovereignty.
c. Establish a Democratic Socialist Republic.
d. Bring the Proclamation of the Republic of Easter 1916 into effective operation and to establish the Republic, representative of the people of all Ireland, based on that Proclamation.
e. Seek a mandate to establish in the Republic a system of social justice based on Irish republican and socialist principles in accordance with the Proclamation of the Republic of 1916 and the Democratic Programme of the First Dáil Éireann in 1919 and by a just distribution and effective control of the nation’s wealth and resources, and to institute a system of government suited to the particular needs of the people.

Or cash all that stuff in for a few trips to Washington, a free bank robbery, a money train from the UK, release of all murderers and split up the province between themselves and the loyalists.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

What theories, Francie?


It's the stated aims of SF. It's in their constitution. They don't believe the Republic of Ireland has yet been established:




a. End British rule in Ireland.
b. Achieve territorial unification, political independence and sovereignty.
c. Establish a Democratic Socialist Republic.
d. Bring the Proclamation of the Republic of Easter 1916 into effective operation and to establish the Republic, representative of the people of all Ireland, based on that Proclamation.
e. Seek a mandate to establish in the Republic a system of social justice based on Irish republican and socialist principles in accordance with the Proclamation of the Republic of 1916 and the Democratic Programme of the First Dáil Éireann in 1919 and by a just distribution and effective control of the nation’s wealth and resources, and to institute a system of government suited to the particular needs of the people.

I don't see much wrong with any of the aspirations there (not a socialist myself mind you although I don't really aspire to a single 'ist' anyhow) ...it's not exactly the sensationalist stuff you first posted is it?

If you want to be accurate perhaps this page on their website is comprehensive enough.

https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/16316

Research is your friend Johnny.

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

More slithery equivocation from the Sinn Fen fan club. Again trying to locate their criminal campaign as some kind of "war".

Either way the answer to people who did unspeakable things (Gerry Adams, Martin Ferris, Dessie Ellis and Co) is the Nuremburg trial followed by a quick hanging.

So to normalise society you are going to have a few selective hangings. Excellent.

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So to normalise society you are going to have a few selective hangings. Excellent.

Yep I am selecting the most vile and guilty

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

Yep I am selecting the most vile and guilty

Aren't you great altogether?

blanch152

christy c wrote: »

I'm talking all the BS that SF have come out with over the years which if implemented would make things worse IMO, Apple tax one of the more recent ones for example.

A good question. Where are all the posters who demanded that we spend the Apple tax money in line with the SF agenda? Disappeared, probably.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I often wonder how people like Truth and Johnny coped after the major wars or our own conflicts/wars, how they allowed men and women who had done unspeakable things adjust back into normal society. How do you begin to trust someone who has bombed a town or village or a hospital or shot somebody?

I personally think the only way is via a truth recovery commission. The Irish state locked away the testimonies until everyone was dead...maybe that is a way to do it also?
But did that just prolong the civil war in politics here?

What do you think Truth and Johnny, how do we progress to a normalised society, could you spell out what it is you want to happen?

I wasn't alive post-WW1 or post-WW2. The question never arose for me. What I do recognise is that up until WW2, normal people had a different view of war and killing. Whether it was the German bombings of London, the Holocaust or Hiroshima, there was a significant cultural change among Western civilisations in the decades that followed. The opposition in the US (one of the most war-mongering countries) to the Vietnam war saw that. The Falklands War saw the UK almost being laughed at for its reaction. The sinking of the Belgrano being heavily criticised internationally.

By the 1970s, it was really only sick pyschos on the fringes of society who would engage in mass terrorism campaigns designed to strike fear into ordinary people. Bombings in Brighton, Manchester, Birmingham and Canary Wharf were the actions of really sick individuals and organisations who had a callous disregard for ordinary people.

A normal society requires Sinn Fein to come clean about its members. It also needs a recognition from its leaders that the terrorist campaign was wrong, misguided and ultimately achieved next to nothing, other than increasing sectarian division and impoverishing the people of Northern Ireland.

Unlike Gerry Adams, I don't believe that protecting child abusers and rapists, knee-capping young men for perceived anti-social behaviour were necessary in the Northern Ireland of the 1980s.

blanch152

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I absolutely don't believe that, but I do believe that part of the surge is born out of the same phenomenon - the people who have caused us so much unimaginable pain tell us "don't vote for these people", so obviously many people will automatically do the opposite.

Unbelievable. "the people who have caused us so much unimaginable pain". What did they do to you? Did they allow your rapist or abuser cross the border to continue on his merry way raping and abusing? Did they disappear your mother? Did they kneecap you?

Oh, you think they made it hard for you to buy a house!! What unimaginable pain. If I remember correctly, a post of yours told us that your generation need their holidays abroad for mental health reasons because they can't afford a house. Well, excuse me. I have a house, the reason I have one is that I didn't have a holiday of any kind for nearly a decade.

Some perspective is needed here.

Yeah_Right

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm literally just somebody who's watched the pain and misery FG's housing policy has wrought over the last half decade and had friends literally crying on my shoulder as they have to move backwards in life when their rent spiralled so far out of control that despite hard working, well paying careers, they had to move back in with their families as they approached their thirties. And who's watched how the government of the day collectively told those people to go f*ck themselves and get used to sh!ttier and sh!ttier qualities of life because obviously the most important thing about housing as a sector is for speculators to make vast amounts money without doing anything to actually earn it.

That's literally it. FG like the status quo, and not only they, but those who benefit from that status quo are f*cking terrified of SF. As a friend of mine tweeted after the election, the fact that all of the banks and institutional landlords took a stock market tumble as soon as the prospect of SF in government became a plausible reality is all you need to show that the current status quo is stacked in favour of them - and, by definition, against ordinary people. Because when one sector earns its money by exploiting the sh!t out of another sector, what's good news for the latter is bad news for the former. It's that simple.

I'm a person who has empathy for my fellow citizens. I've seen too many friends have their independent lives snatched away from them by the greedy c*nts who hoard property as if life is a game of monopoly to ever vote for anyone who isn't openly in favour of tackling those people head on and preventing them from continuing this exploitation.

You say that rent has spiraled out of control and that there is a housing crisis. People have had to move home with their parents because they can't afford rent/mortgages. However these houses/apartments are being rented out or bought so obviously some people can afford them. Surely that means they aren't out of control. They are at the market rates. Can you tell me how SF are going to change this?

Is the actual problem for your friends that they can't afford to live where they want and thats why they have moved home? My wife and I would love a 4 or 5 bed detached house with a big garden on Palmerston Road or maybe in Malahide or Killiney with a seaview. But we can't afford that right now so we bought a 3 bed semi-detached in a Dublin commuter suburb. Simple.

Maybe one day we will buy the dream house and rent out where we are now. At the market rates. Though unless there are some changes to the law, we would probably only do short term lets.

dundalkfc10

Yeah_Right wrote: »

You say that rent has spiraled out of control and that there is a housing crisis. People have had to move home with their parents because they can't afford rent/mortgages. However these houses/apartments are being rented out or bought so obviously some people can afford them. Surely that means they aren't out of control. They are at the market rates. Can you tell me how SF are going to change this?

Is the actual problem for your friends that they can't afford to live where they want and thats why they have moved home? My wife and I would love a 4 or 5 bed detached house with a big garden on Palmerston Road or maybe in Malahide or Killiney with a seaview. But we can't afford that right now so we bought a 3 bed semi-detached in a Dublin commuter suburb. Simple.

Maybe one day we will buy the dream house and rent out where we are now. At the market rates. Though unless there are some changes to the law, we would probably only do short term lets.

Your right there's no housing crisis. Covid 19 prob a hoax too?

blanch152

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Your right there's no housing crisis. Covid 19 prob a hoax too?

Homelessness numbers have been on a downward trend for nearly a year.

mynamejeff

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So to normalise society you are going to have a few selective hangings. Excellent.

one of the big issues with SF is that hat GFA released horrible disgusting criminal scumbags without paying for their crimes because SF demanded it .


getting a free pass on murder is inexcusable for the victims

Yeah_Right

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Your right there's no housing crisis.

I don't think there is a housing crisis. I think that there is a multi-million euro industry that has sprung up around this supposed crisis and that needs to be kept going. I also think that this has led to a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon and calling for government intervention so that they can get the house they want rather than the house they can afford.

The result is parties like SF that spout populist BS have grabbed this "issue" and told people what they want to hear.

McMurphy

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I don't think there is a housing crisis. I think that there is a multi-million euro industry that has sprung up around this supposed crisis and that needs to be kept going. I also think that this has led to a lot of people jumping on the bandwagon and calling for government intervention so that they can get the house they want rather than the house they can afford.

The result is parties like SF that spout populist BS have grabbed this "issue" and told people what they want to hear.

Fuppin Fine Gael jumping on the Shinners populist BS bandwagon. Pay attention to number 4 - it's a humdinger.

Our ambition is to ensure:

1. there is a strong construction sector focused on the building of homes in all price ranges, not on land speculation;
2. that we are building in excess of 25,000 new houses per annum in 2020, rising to 35,000 in the years thereafter, and those houses are in locations with access to employment, public transport, and other essential amenities;
3. 12,000 new homes are added to the social housing stock each year by 2021 and that level is maintained thereafter;
4. that the homelessness crisis is ended and the time people spend in emergency accommodation is as short as possible; and
5. that we have tenant protections, both in legislation and in practice, that allow renters to enjoy secure, high-quality and long-term accommodation and provide landlords with a fair return on their investment.

Ouch.

https://www.finegael.ie/our-policies/a-housing-system-with-the-citizen-at-the-centre/

Yeah_Right

Yeah FG jumped on it as well. Unfortunately the homeless industry/lobby has gotten so powerful that they couldn't ignore it. At least their policies around it are a bit more realistic than SF's. The big issue that needs to be resolved is how social housing is run and where they are located. Also better protection for landlords would make more houses available. If more properties are available, prices come down.

McMurphy

Ok, so all the party's in the Dail say they want to tackle a homeless crisis - you say doesn't exist, and not only that - when it's pointed out to you that Sinn Fein aren't the only party mentioning it - "at least FGs policies are more realistic"

For some reason, I'm reminded of a poster on these threads during the election who was giving out about "SF saying they'll build 60k social houses" along with some derogatory comments about the calibre of people who might avail of them.

When asked whom they intended to give their vote, "FG" they said...... **Linked to FG preelection vow to build 60k social houses** tumbleweed.

But anyway, there's no homeless crisis according to yourself. Great news..