New Job was Misleading

Dav010

This is all you need to know op.


https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/what_you_should_know/ending%20the%20employment%20relationship/minimum%20notice/

Bandana boy

you need to get clarification as you are definitely mistaken with 7 days on 2 days off , this would be illegal.
I suspect it is 5 over 7 in your contract . But get it clarified , while no repercussions with just quitting , if you came through an agency to the role they will never touch you again.

_Brian

Danni21 wrote: »

I don't want them over a barrel. I simply want to know if I can just up and leave without repurcussions.

Yes.. You can

Danni21

Bandana boy wrote: »

you need to get clarification as you are definitely mistaken with 7 days on 2 days off , this would be illegal.
I suspect it is 5 over 7 in your contract . But get it clarified , while no repercussions with just quitting , if you came through an agency to the role they will never touch you again.

I'm 100% on this. It's a 7 day roster which will fall over two weeks in most cases. It's 7 days continuous and then 2 days off. I didn't go through an agency, which is a pity because i'd be straight back on to them.

seamus

Danni21 wrote: »

Thanks Dogg Munde.

I'm a bit out of the loop around Employment law in Ireland at the minute as i've been away. I'm thinking they might be getting away with it based on the structure of the week.

Eg. Next week - I work Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday off. Then I work Thursday, Friday Saturday and Sunday. So that's technically 5 days in that week. But then i'm also in Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.

Well, tease that out.

Does the roster look like this?

|Mon|Tue|Wed|Thu|Fri|Sat|Sun
Week 1|On|Off|Off|On|On|On|On
Week 2|On|On|On|Off|Off|On|On
Week 3|On|On|On|On|On|Off|Off

Cos that's five days a week, not seven.

Edit: I expanded it out a bit. There are some weeks you'll do seven days and only get two days off after. Every month will have a "long week" that's either 6 or 7 days. The pattern repeats every ten weeks, and the average weekly hours in those ten weeks is 43.2.

So this is legal, but it is ugly as hell. I cannot see any rationale for any company to operate on this basis except to squeeze employees for extra hours by making the schedule look like five days a week, but being confusing enough so that employees aren't sure.

Allinall

seamus wrote: »

Well, tease that out.

Does the roster look like this?

|Mon|Tue|Wed|Thu|Fri|Sat|Sun
Week 1|On|Off|Off|On|On|On|On
Week 2|On|On|On|Off|Off|On|On
Week 3|On|On|On|On|On|Off|Off

Cos that's five days a week, not seven.

Carry on to week 4........

seamus

Allinall wrote: »

Carry on to week 4........

I had to bring it all the way to week 16 to figure it out

I updated my post.

Danni21

seamus wrote: »

Well, tease that out.

Does the roster look like this?

|Mon|Tue|Wed|Thu|Fri|Sat|Sun
Week 1|On|Off|Off|On|On|On|On
Week 2|On|On|On|Off|Off|On|On
Week 3|On|On|On|On|On|Off|Off

Cos that's five days a week, not seven.

Edit: I expanded it out a bit. There are some weeks you'll do seven days and only get two days off after. Every month will have a "long week" that's either 6 or 7 days. The pattern repeats every ten weeks, and the average weekly hours in those ten weeks is 43.2.

So this is legal, but it is ugly as hell. I cannot see any rationale for any company to operate on this basis except to squeeze employees for extra hours by making the schedule look like five days a week, but being confusing enough so that employees aren't sure.

I didn't say 7 days a week. I said seven days on which overlaps on to the next week and 2 days off.

JazzyJ

Expanding on what seamus posted, the roster will be like this - it repeats every 10 weeks

|Mon|Tue|Wed|Thu|Fri|Sat|Sun|Working days in week
Week 1||||||||7
Week 2|OFF|OFF||||||5
Week 3|||OFF|OFF||||5
Week 4|||||OFF|OFF||5
Week 5|||||||OFF|6
Week 6|OFF|||||||6
Week 7||OFF|OFF|||||5
Week 8||||OFF|OFF|||5
Week 9||||||OFF|OFF|5


Week 10 will be back to the same as week 1.

Total 49 days worked over 9 weeks averages at 5.44 days/43.55 hours per week.

It's well within working hours regulations, nothing illegal about it. Extending it out to 4 months per the working hours act, the average is probably around 44 hours per week.


It wouldn't be my cup of tea!

Danni21

JazzyJ wrote: »

Expanding on what seamus posted, the roster will be like this - it repeats every 10 weeks

|Mon|Tue|Wed|Thu|Fri|Sat|Sun|Working days in week
Week 1||||||||7
Week 2|OFF|OFF||||||5
Week 3|||OFF|OFF||||5
Week 4|||||OFF|OFF||5
Week 5|||||||OFF|6
Week 6|OFF|||||||6
Week 7||OFF|OFF|||||5
Week 8||||OFF|OFF|||5
Week 9||||||OFF|OFF|5


Week 10 will be back to the same as week 1.

Total 49 days worked over 9 weeks averages at 5.44 days/43.55 hours per week.

It's well within working hours regulations, nothing illegal about it. Extending it out to 4 months per the working hours act, the average is probably around 44 hours per week.


It wouldn't be my cup of tea!

It's still not what I was told or agreed to. I was told working week Sunday to Thursday.

ibarelycare

Danni21 wrote: »

It's still not what I was told or agreed to. I was told working week Sunday to Thursday.

What has the response been when you queried why it's different to what you agreed?

listermint

Danni21 wrote: »

It's still not what I was told or agreed to. I was told working week Sunday to Thursday.

thats not legal, you need to ask the question and also ask why the hours changed to what the interview said.

Again its not legal to work the hours listed. So id suspect you may have picked it up wrong or the person describing it was a muppet.

wench

listermint wrote: »

thats not legal, you need to ask the question and also ask why the hours changed to what the interview said.

Again its not legal to work the hours listed. So id suspect you may have picked it up wrong or the person describing it was a muppet.

On what basis is it not legal? It looks to comply with the Working Time Act

Danni21

Danni21 wrote: »

It's 100% a 56 hour week, but with our breaks it's 48 hours working. 7 days work then two days off. I've seen the roster for the next few weeks.

It's 100% not a 56 hour week. It's the averages that count, not one select week.

Week 1: 56 hours
Week 2: 40
Week 3: 40
Week 4: 40
Week 5: 48
Week 6: 48
Week 7: 40
Week 8: 40
Week 9: 40

It's a 9 week roster and resets week 10. If my maths is right it's 43.5 hours average so deducting 30 minutes break I think. Leaves a 40 hour paid week.

Not my cup of tea and I'm relying on mental maths so maybe I'm wrong.

JazzyJ

ibarelycare wrote: »

What has the response been when you queried why it's different to what you agreed?

OP - I'd go with this course of action. As others have said, if you don't like the response and the company won't revert to what they originally agreed then just quit.

Not great from them though to change the working hours from what you were originally told.

As others have said the hours given by the company do comply with the working hours act - hours are generally averaged over 4 months when considering if they are over 48 hours per week.

Danni21

JazzyJ wrote: »

OP - I'd go with this course of action. As others have said, if you don't like the response and the company won't revert to what they originally agreed then just quit.

Not great from them though to change the working hours from what you were originally told.

As others have said the hours given by the company do comply with the working hours act - hours are generally averaged over 4 months when considering if they are over 48 hours per week.

So seems other colleagues have come in under the guise of "9 to 5" also. A lot of them seem younger and school leavers etc so I guess they won't speak up. One guy actually asked me why do we have to have our contracts. Bless him. Hate to see young people taking advantage of.

I haven't spoken to the company yet as deciding how to tackle it. Finally got my contract last night after several emails. Didn't read through it all, but under Contract hours they've put the following

"You will be required to work 40 hours per week. Your daily working hours shall be in accordance with the agreed Rota, details of which are available from your Manager. You will be expected to be flexible in your working arrangements as the job may require you to work rotating shifts or any other working pattern as agreed"

antix80

Danni21 wrote: »

"You will be required to work 40 hours per week. Your daily working hours shall be in accordance with the agreed Rota, details of which are available from your Manager. You will be expected to be flexible in your working arrangements as the job may require you to work rotating shifts or any other working pattern as agreed"

They're a pack of clowns. Can you name the company?

I'd add a section to the contract specifying your understanding of "as agreed" - "where this contract specifies 'as agreed', it shall be taken to mean the terms agreed with Mrs Whoever at job offer stage prior to commencement of training i.e. Sunday to Thursday. No more than one weekend per month. Company agrees to provide flexibility around exam leave."

(That's all legalese by the way, but no worse than they have written in your contract!)

Look - seems they have a lot of staff on very flexible arrangements. Which means they have plently of flexibility. I've seen people on flexible contracts who never worked weekends just because they stuck their head out and asked or got in with a manager. You might as well at least ask them to match your written contract to what you already agreed. If they say no, well all the more reason to leave.

More than likely even if you got the terms you want the company will be horrible to work for with high staff turnover and poor treatment of staff. I suffered the same in a callcentre previously. They just treated their staff like school kids because the staff just put up with it.

Danni21

antix80 wrote: »

They're a pack of clowns. Can you name the company?

I'd add a section to the contract specifying your understanding of "as agreed" - "where this contract specifies 'as agreed', it shall be taken to mean the terms agreed with Mrs Whoever at job offer stage prior to commencement of training i.e. Sunday to Thursday. No more than one weekend per month. Company agrees to provide flexibility around exam leave."

(That's all legalese by the way, but no worse than they have written in your contract!)

Look - seems they have a lot of staff on very flexible arrangements. Which means they have plently of flexibility. I've seen people on flexible contracts who never worked weekends just because they stuck their head out and asked or got in with a manager. You might as well at least ask them to match your written contract to what you already agreed. If they say no, well all the more reason to leave.

More than likely even if you got the terms you want the company will be horrible to work for with high staff turnover and poor treatment of staff. I suffered the same in a callcentre previously. They just treated their staff like school kids because the staff just put up with it.

Don't know if I should mention company on here? Yeap, we were told we should get paid this week. If not it will be next month. Like wtf. You can't do that.

Going to have a proper read through the contract over the weekend and send them an email. We've already been given the whole speak to your TL speel. I'll be going direct to HR.

943

Unfortunately it is legal... Most shift work or jobs that work on a roster work this way.
I have worked ten days in a row at some points depending on when your two days off are scheduled.. ie Monday and Tuesday off this week, Saturday Sunday off the next week.

It is crap, no doubt, but unless you have a fixed time of work then they can do this.

The payment issue probably depends on when you started... If you are paid monthly then you probably missed the cut off date for payroll and will get paid next month which is normal in monthly paying jobs. If that isn't the case though, that is a red flag saying you 'should' get paid.

I will say, if they hired you under the guise that this wasn't the case then yes they shouldn't have done that. And if you are there under 13 weeks - which you are- then you are not required to give notice.

If you mentioned the evening course on interviewing and they agreed with it then I would definitely bring that up with HR. A lot of companies do this and people just stay quiet so they can keep the job, but that doesn't make it right.


I remember interviewing for one role that I really wanted to do... and on my second day me and the other new hire were told the job was not available and we would be doing something else. The option was to take it or leave. The new role included weekends and the one I applied for was mon-fri. I asked about a weekend I had an event on (as when I took the role I was promised no weekends) and I was told any time off request had to be six weeks in advance so no way could I have it off..... I stayed because I needed the job, missed the event (which was planned for a long time) and it turned out to be the worst place I have ever worked. I left a few months later. These red flags usually show up for a reason, especially so early. They hope people won't care. It is bad.

Danni21

I'm due to start my first official shift after training shortly.

So one of the HR girls came on our Zoom call the other day and I asked the question regarding being flexible and she gave a hell of a speel about how this could be required if we deal with a different client etc. So I re-iterated it back to her saying so this is the only scenario this is required. She then says well no in some cases might be asked to move shifts. Basically dancing around the question.

So I emailed the person that sent my contract.

Hi xxx,

I have a few reservations regarding my contract.

In the paragraph re Contract Hours it states "hours agreed".

I was told before committing to the role that my working week would be Sunday to Thursday (5 days on).

I was also not informed that I need to be flexible around my shifts and willing to change rosters at the request of our managers.

Again, this is not what I was told.

I have other commitments which would work with the "hours agreed" as per my accepting the role, but not with the conflicting information now being proposed.

I look forward to hearing from you,

Danni21

So I quit my job.

Before I did I vocally raised my concerns with HR when they joined our training Zoom Meeting.

I was basically fobbed off. I then sent multiple emails and heard nothing back.

So Monday I quit in writing and detailed why. I then emailed a couple of team leaders to let them know I wouldn't be working that evening.

Nothing back. I then sent emails to a couple of other HR contacts.

Nothing. I emailed my trainer who couldn't give a phone number for someone. He gave me a couple more email contacts and said he will get in touch with them.

Emailed again. I still haven't heard anything back.

I have all their IT equipment and the product I was doing Customer Service for which is worth $500.

I just want this taken back and to be done with them.

antix80

Danni21 wrote: »

So I quit my job.

Before I did I vocally raised my concerns with HR when they joined our training Zoom Meeting.

I was basically fobbed off. I then sent multiple emails and heard nothing back.

So Monday I quit in writing and detailed why. I then emailed a couple of team leaders to let them know I wouldn't be working that evening.

Nothing back. I then sent emails to a couple of other HR contacts.

Nothing. I emailed my trainer who couldn't give a phone number for someone. He gave me a couple more email contacts and said he will get in touch with them.

Emailed again. I still haven't heard anything back.

I have all their IT equipment and the product I was doing Customer Service for which is worth $500.

I just want this taken back and to be done with them.

cringe that you're running around like a lacky. What happened to dealing with one person in hr? I'd say all those people you're emailing are having a laugh at your expense.

Tell me how

Danni21 wrote: »

So I quit my job.

Before I did I vocally raised my concerns with HR when they joined our training Zoom Meeting.

I was basically fobbed off. I then sent multiple emails and heard nothing back.

So Monday I quit in writing and detailed why. I then emailed a couple of team leaders to let them know I wouldn't be working that evening.

Nothing back. I then sent emails to a couple of other HR contacts.

Nothing. I emailed my trainer who couldn't give a phone number for someone. He gave me a couple more email contacts and said he will get in touch with them.

Emailed again. I still haven't heard anything back.

I have all their IT equipment and the product I was doing Customer Service for which is worth $500.

I just want this taken back and to be done with them.

Package all their equipment securely in appropriate containers and leave in a safe place in your house/room etc.

Document what is in the box in a list and print a copy of this and tape it to the outside of the box.

This will save you wondering where something is, of if it is included when they come looking for it.
If you do decide to drop the above to an office or wherever, get someone to acknowledge that they have received it and take a picture of you leaving it there.

Good luck with the study and hopefully new role, if and when you get one will be more appropriate.

Get Real

Danni21 wrote: »

I didn't say 7 days a week. I said seven days on which overlaps on to the next week and 2 days off.

Oh.. This is entirely different to the initial impression you gave that it was 7 on, two off, 7 on, two off.

Loads of jobs are like this. Just the way it is. I worked in a job where sometimes you could work ten days in a row.

Off Monday, Tuesday one week. Work Wednesday to the following Friday. Saturday and Sunday are your rest days for the following week.

That doesn't mean I work 80 hours and get two days off, then repeat. It averages out to be a 40 hour week over the year.

Danni21

antix80 wrote: »

cringe that you're running around like a lacky. What happened to dealing with one person in hr? I'd say all those people you're emailing are having a laugh at your expense.

They can laugh away. I've landed a much better job with a significant pay difference.

antix80

Danni21 wrote: »

They can laugh away. I've landed a much better job with a significant pay difference.

.. And you wanted them to know so you sent them 10 emails.

Danni21

Get Real wrote: »

Oh.. This is entirely different to the initial impression you gave that it was 7 on, two off, 7 on, two off.

Loads of jobs are like this. Just the way it is. I worked in a job where sometimes you could work ten days in a row.

Off Monday, Tuesday one week. Work Wednesday to the following Friday. Saturday and Sunday are your rest days for the following week.

That doesn't mean I work 80 hours and get two days off, then repeat. It averages out to be a 40 hour week over the year.

Still not what was agreed

tinpib

Good for you OP, all that shadyness from them, not being 100% honest and upfront, and not replying to emails like that are all red flags. It would inevitably be a horrible place to work. All the best to you.

Danni21

antix80 wrote: »

.. And you wanted them to know so you sent them 10 emails.

What?????

I sent numerous emails because I was letting them know I was leaving. Some to TLs so they knew someone would need to cover my shifts. Nothing about my new job.

Why would I cause that drama for myself. That would be so stupid

bucketybuck

Danni21 wrote: »

What?????

I sent numerous emails because I was letting them know I was leaving. Some to TLs so they knew someone would need to cover my shifts. Nothing about my new job.

Why would I cause that drama for myself. That would be so stupid

But you are finding drama that isn't needed. You knew immediately that they had misrepresented your agreed terms, you had no obligation to stay or give any notice, and once you had quit you have no obligation to chase them or to worry about their shifts or equipment.

The job wasn't what you were told, you quit, move on. There is no need to be sending emails to all and sundry.