Is that a Mountain of Salt? Nope, it's the Leinster v Munster build up thread/love in

aloooof

Clegg wrote: »

I'm really interested in seeing how the forwards match up. In the last three or four years Leinster have generally handled Munsters pack quite easily. That's not to say Munster have been soft, but rather they've been predictable. We know Stander is the main threat so if you neutralise him Munster don't have a great platform, Chris Farrell doesn't get the good ball he needs to get over the gain line, it goes back to the other forwards who aren't great carriers and repeats.

The signings of Snyman and De Allende changes that as they add another powerful carrier to the pack and centre. So even if Munster fail to make metres up front, they still have a chance if it goes to the centres and vice versa.

I'd agree, tbh. In the SF last year, Beirne seemed to be tasked with more carrying but he didn't have a great day at the office, and I remember him getting ripped in the tackle once or twice.

With Kilcoyne, Snyman, CJ, DDA and Farrell, Munster now have far more heavy-carrying options.

Looking forward to it now, tho! I think it's likely to be error strewn with a high penalty count, but gawd it'll be good to have it back!

shootermacg

If I was Leinster, I'd be putting Porter back as loosehead. He's too good a player to not have on the pitch. Healy isn't up to it anymore.

Clegg

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Is Harry all that?
I havent seen enough to know. I do really like Frawley at 10.
If its been decided that Byrne 1 & 2 are the heirs apparent at 10
- Which is prob not brilliant for the brother that will be Byrne no.2 or the parents!

I can definitely see the logic in moving Frawley to 12 to give more play-making options.

Harry Byrne hasn't played that much yet, but in the games I've seen he's been excellent. He can do everything his brother can, but is a better athlete. He also has a bit of individual quality that we haven't seen much of from Ross. An offload out of the tackle or a line break that didn't look likely at first glance. He overplays things sometimes but that's ok from a young player. If Sexton retires next summer you'd guess that Ross will take over. He's still the next best option. But give Harry a full season as back up in Europe and starter in the Pro 14 and he'll be number soon shortly after.

I think Frawley is a good 10 as well. He's a big unit and athletic so can threaten the line, but he also has good passing and kicking skills. We've seen some flaws in his game though. His passing can get very sloopy. Either he loses concentration or picks his passing option a bit too early and directs them to where the receiver was a split second earlier. The result is usually the same though. A pass that goes behind and to ground, or one that hits the outside shoulder. That's something that can be ironed out with more game time, but it makes sense to switch positions as we've so much strength in depth at 10. Especially as there's no established backup to Henshaw or Larmour. Kearney is there but he's retiring in a few months. We don't have any natural playmakers at 12/15. He'd be a natural there with his passing and kicking. Would add another dimension to Leinster's attacking game.

ionadnapokot

Good to know where Harry's strengths are. Thanks
I wonder will Frawley be happy to play 12. Im sure he will.
But he prob also backs himself to be as good as Ross Byrne at least.

ionadnapokot

sydthebeat wrote: »

I'd revise it to being a scratch spread, but I still think the desire to win will be different and the purpose of the game will also be viewed differently..... So ill stick with my prediction.

I put a few quid on munster +9 yesterday and also on a munster win this morning @3/1

Surely after all this time latham will have been able to introduce some innovation into that back line.... And I hope they don't just use DDA and CF as bash merchants.

Ballsy! I like it!
I just see it been an error strewn game with Leinster winning by 9 or more with first choice pack and settled 9,10, 12 & 13.

I expect the Larkham:D innovation will be parked for the bash. This week anyway. Poor Johnny

arsebiscuits1

shootermacg wrote: »

If I was Leinster, I'd be putting Porter back as loosehead. He's too good a player to not have on the pitch. Healy isn't up to it anymore.

Based on what?

Healy was one of the stronger players in blue and green last season

Clegg

Healy's still our best loose head. I think we need to find a way to get Porter into the side somehow though. He's too good to be benching all the time. He's formerly a loose head so going back to that position may not be the worst idea. As much as a like Dooley and Byrne as players, they aren't a patch on Porter.

Clegg

Stating the obvious here, but we're going to miss Ryan hugely. He's one of the best second rows in the world and was our only world class player in the pack pre-lockdown. Furlong has the pedigree, but wasn't playing to the standard he set in 2018.

I'm very enthused about our backrow options over the next few weeks. There's real strength in depth there. Conan is fit for the first time since the World Cup and can be a very effective option starting or benching. Could also play on the blindside The same can be said for Deegan who was having his best season to date. Doris is the incumbent and will probably start this weekend. But it's great to have three good options at number 8. VDF was Leinster's best player post WC and I think he'll hit those heights again very quickly. Leavy returning will just add competition and spur rack other on.

awec

Didn't Porter effectively delay his progression as he transitioned to TH? Wouldn't it be a bit dickish to now move him back to LH?

Scottmactom

Porter isn't moving back to loosehead despite what some people want to happen.

AbusesToilets

Clegg wrote: »

Healy's still our best loose head. I think we need to find a way to get Porter into the side somehow though. He's too good to be benching all the time. He's formerly a loose head so going back to that position may not be the worst idea. As much as a like Dooley and Byrne as players, they aren't a patch on Porter.

Would him playing TH for the last while cause him any issues there? In terms of physique or such? Given Furlong's relative dip in form, I wouldn't be against starting Porter, a la McGrath over Healy in seasons past.

arsebiscuits1

Clegg wrote: »

Stating the obvious here, but we're going to miss Ryan hugely. He's one of the best second rows in the world and was our only world class player in the pack pre-lockdown. Furlong has the pedigree, but wasn't playing to the standard he set in 2018.

I'd argue that Fardy still comfortably sat in the World Class category too.

Also Ryans loss is Bairds gain. Let's see if the kid really is up to the hype. I have a first class ticket on his hype train. I just hope he kicks on and shows that he's up to the highest standard

arsebiscuits1

awec wrote: »

Didn't Porter effectively delay his progression as he transitioned to TH? Wouldn't it be a bit dickish to now move him back to LH?

Not really delayed. He had a 7 appearances at LH for Leinster in the second half of his first season after Under20s (16/17).

About Feb/ March he made the switch to TH, played a bit in AIL and then got a cap off the bench at TH at the end of the season. 8 appearances in your first season of senior rugby is much more than the average we've seen recently.

Then started the 17/18 season as backup TH to Furlong and won the Double and the Grand Slam.

Scottmactom

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Not really delayed. He had a 7 appearances at LH for Leinster in the second half of his first season after Under20s (16/17).

About Feb/ March he made the switch to TH, played a bit in AIL and then got a cap off the bench at TH at the end of the season. 8 appearances in your first season of senior rugby is much more than the average we've seen recently.

Then started the 17/18 season as backup TH to Furlong and won the Double and the Grand Slam.

Yeah at best he'd have been 3rd choice LH in the 17/18 season, given Healy and Jack Mc. so moving to TH, progressed his career quicker.

Clegg

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Would him playing TH for the last while cause him any issues there? In terms of physique or such? Given Furlong's relative dip in form, I wouldn't be against starting Porter, a la McGrath over Healy in seasons past.

Tbh I don't know enough about the differences between TH and LH to make an informed opinion on that. If Porter transitioned back to LH I've no doubt if would take a good while before he became comfortable there. But if we wanted to get our best players in the pitch at the same time you'd have to consider Porter to LH.

shootermacg

Clegg wrote: »

Healy's still our best loose head. I think we need to find a way to get Porter into the side somehow though. He's too good to be benching all the time. He's formerly a loose head so going back to that position may not be the worst idea. As much as a like Dooley and Byrne as players, they aren't a patch on Porter.

Healy was poor in green in every game he played of the 6N, pure passenger. Add to that the fact that the scrum was going backwards. So in the loose he was poor and in the scrum was poor.

shootermacg

Clegg wrote: »

Tbh I don't know enough about the differences between TH and LH to make an informed opinion on that. If Porter transitioned back to LH I've no doubt if would take a good while before he became comfortable there. But if we wanted to get our best players in the pitch at the same time you'd have to consider Porter to LH.

Exactly, he needs to be playing, he's a poaching threat and a carrying threat and solid AF in defense.

Scottmactom

shootermacg wrote: »

Healy was poor in green in every game he played of the 6N, pure passenger. Add to that the fact that the scrum was going backwards. So in the loose he was poor and in the scrum was poor.

well we are talking about healys performance in blue and he was far from poor for leinster.

Scottmactom

shootermacg wrote: »

Exactly, he needs to be playing, he's a poaching threat and a carrying threat and solid AF in defense.

he will play plenty at TH, for instance he is starting at 3 this weekend.

ionadnapokot

shootermacg wrote: »

If I was Leinster, I'd be putting Porter back as loosehead. He's too good a player to not have on the pitch. Healy isn't up to it anymore.

It's an unpopular opinion.
Basing it more on his performance for Ireland in the last two years.

Outstanding v NZ in 2018 - His last great performance
Brutal v Eng & Wales in 6N '19
Abysmal v NZ RWC
Same v Eng '20

That 2011 form is long gone & it isnt coming back. He's nearly 33. Contract is up at the end of 20/21 season. I'd give him another year at Leinster but Ireland should cut their losses sooner.

shootermacg

Scottmactom wrote: »

well we are talking about healys performance in blue and he was far from poor for leinster.

Yes I think Porter is someone you need on the pitch and he's probably a much better option to Healy at this stage. Now maybe after the lay off, Healy will come back strong, but on previous form he's nowhere near his best.

arsebiscuits1

shootermacg wrote: »

Healy was poor in green in every game he played of the 6N, pure passenger. Add to that the fact that the scrum was going backwards. So in the loose he was poor and in the scrum was poor.

But this isn't true?

The pack as a whole was pretty poor in the 6N - especially in Twickenham where Healy came off injured.

It was actually Furlong who was penalised more than Healy in the scrums - notably against Wales and Scotland (both looseheads getting away with a crooked drive)

What did you expect from him in the loose? A barnstorming break every carry? Killer didn't offer that when he appeared, neither did Porter FWIW. CJ and Ryan had to do the brunt of the carries and got absolutely nowhere

You're lazily scapegoating a player based on a teams stationary tactics

shootermacg

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

But this isn't true?

The pack as a whole was pretty poor in the 6N - especially in Twickenham where Healy came off injured.

It was actually Furlong who was penalised more than Healy in the scrums - notably against Wales and Scotland (both looseheads getting away with a crooked drive)

What did you expect from him in the loose? A barnstorming break every carry? Killer didn't offer that when he appeared, neither did Porter FWIW. CJ and Ryan had to do the brunt of the carries and got absolutely nowhere

You're lazily scapegoating a player based on a teams stationary tactics

A barnstorming run once in 3 games maybe? Pointless accusing you of being lazy so I'll have to go with biased. The front row as a whole has been poor, he's 1/3 of the front row, although Herring isn't much either to be honest.

Clegg

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I'd argue that Fardy still comfortably sat in the World Class category too.

Also Ryans loss is Bairds gain. Let's see if the kid really is up to the hype. I have a first class ticket on his hype train. I just hope he kicks on and shows that he's up to the highest standard

I think Fardy's a world class blindside doing a brilliant job at playing lock. Ryan just has that bit of extra power and athleticism that sets him apart.

You're right on Baird though. It's a huge opportunity for him and I think he might start this weekend actually. He's untested against high level opposition. If Ryan doesn't make it back in time for Saracens we'll need Baird to have some experience of top level competition. Ulster have unfortunately lost Henderson so Munster poses the biggest test.

arsebiscuits1

shootermacg wrote: »

A barnstorming run once in 3 games maybe? Pointless accusing you of being lazy so I'll have to go with biased. The front row as a whole has been poor, he's 1/3 of the front row, although Herring isn't much either to be honest.

Not biased. Just calling out unfounded opinions.

Bias would be holding someone to a different standard to everyone else. Something you're quite happy to do with Healy...

Show me how his performances were worse that the other options

shootermacg

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Not biased. Just calling out unfounded opinions.

Bias would be holding someone to a different standard to everyone else. Something you're quite happy to do with Healy...

Show me how his performances were worse that the other options

Can't do that mate, he was the one playing. Go back and watch the games and tell me where he was good.

He wasn't!

Former Former

Healy was playing very well for Leinster prior to lockdown.

If we discarded everyone who didn't perform at the RWC or in the 6N, we wouldn't be able to field a team.

shootermacg

I'll have to take your word for that.

The question is, who would you want on the pitch? Porter or Healy? Porter is having difficulties as tight head but is more than good enough at loosehead with the potential to be a world class loosehead.

Scottmactom

Scottmactom wrote: »

well we are talking about healys performance in blue and he was far from poor for leinster.

He's leaner than he used to be, it suits Leinster's style of play which is highly mobile, but against big international packs he looked a bit lightweight last season..

Scottmactom

Former Former wrote: »

Healy was playing very well for Leinster prior to lockdown.

If we discarded everyone who didn't perform at the RWC or in the 6N, we wouldn't be able to field a team.

Munster would as they have so few players playing at that level.