Is that a Mountain of Salt? Nope, it's the Leinster v Munster build up thread/love in

ionadnapokot

Backup though?

I would be disappointed if he togged out in this game in particular. First game back and all.

Larmour starts and Keenan should start if he needs a rest for the games this season.

How long is his contract for?

Scottmactom

Until the end of this mini-season, which will be all be about winning the knock out games, not developing younger players.

ionadnapokot

Scottmactom wrote: »

Until the end of this mini-season, which will be all be about winning the knock out games, not developing younger players.

Of course. But Larmour starts!
Keenan can play next week?

Larmour starts all theses games.
Pro 14
v SF 4th Sep
v Final 12th Sep
Euro Cup
v Saracens on 19th Sep
v SF 26th Sep
v Final 17th Oct

Scottmactom

I can't see Larmour starting all of them.

ionadnapokot

He's a big boy now!

Scottmactom

ionadnapokot wrote: »

He's a big boy now!

No player will be starting all of those KO games given the required workload IMO.

ionadnapokot

If it comes to pass that Leinster play 5 KO games on consecutive weeks, 7 or 8 of the players will play on consecutive weeks.
Playing for trophies. No scope for rotation.
Full strength this week. Rotate next week. & then game by game.

Scottmactom

ionadnapokot wrote: »

If it comes to pass that Leinster play 5 KO games on consecutive weeks, 7 or 8 of the players will play on consecutive weeks.
Playing for trophies. No scope for rotation.
Full strength this week. Rotate next week. & then game by game.

I don't believe any will start 5 KO games consecutively, but we shall have to wait and see.

molloyjh

Who actually cares who gets selected this week? Really? This week and next are about 2 things and 2 things only. Getting the necessary players pitch time and trying to make sure those same players don't get injured. Anything else is a bonus. Moaning about selection in these games is beyond pointless.

shootermacg

Clegg wrote: »

Think D'Arcy is a bit guilty of sticking up for his mates. Larmour is first choice full back now.

The England game proves that when it comes to fielding Larmour is not even close to Kearney.
Ireland have been able to put 14 men in the defensive line because Kearney is so good at covering. Normally other teams put the 9 in a sweeper position, Ireland haven't had to do that because Kearney is so damn good.

ionadnapokot

I see this defensive tactic of 14 and 1 defending the 22 having to change anyway.
Henshaw got badly exposed v Eng in 2019 Even with Murray dropping back. Kearney in his pomp would still not have been able to cover off all those kicks in behind the defensive line v Eng in '19 or '20.

Kicking is back & i think more teams will have to put 2 men back both inside and outside the 22.

Parabellum9

Neil3030 wrote: »

Munster players confirm they will adhere to strict social distancing rules and not get within 2m of James Lowe at any point in the game.

Hopefully James Lowe wears a mask for the game so we don't have to suffer that goofy ****ing smile of his. Not to worry anyway, it will be hard to see his face when he's been folded up his own asshole by a Snyman or DDA tackle

Scottmactom

it's sad that munster's main hopes rest on the shoulders of south africans.

Parabellum9

Scottmactom wrote: »

it's sad that munster's main hopes rest on the shoulders of south africans.

They don't, Munster are still Munster - but even if you aren't a Munster supporter you can surely agree it will be great to see those 2 guys playing on Saturday?

rayd3

Respond to a comment about a kiwi that plays for Leinster and the usual hurr durr forriners is thrown out. Sad.

salmocab

There’s the salt

ec18

Scottmactom wrote: »

it's sad that munster's main hopes rest on the shoulders of south africans.

It's terrible alright, just as well Leinster have been able to produce local players like Scott McFardy, Jame O'Lowe, Gibson NiPark and Isa NaCewa in recent years

Clegg

shootermacg wrote: »

The England game proves that when it comes to fielding Larmour is not even close to Kearney.
Ireland have been able to put 14 men in the defensive line because Kearney is so good at covering. Normally other teams put the 9 in a sweeper position, Ireland haven't had to do that because Kearney is so damn good.

Don't think there's a fullback in rugby that has the positional expertise of Kearney. But that's just one aspect of fullback play. In others Larmour is clearly superior and is also 11 years younger. Makes sense to persist with the younger guy. Also, at this stage of their respective careers the latter is simply the better player.

aloooof

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I see this defensive tactic of 14 and 1 defending the 22 having to change anyway.
Henshaw got badly exposed v Eng in 2019 Even with Murray dropping back. Kearney in his pomp would still not have been able to cover off all those kicks in behind the defensive line v Eng in '19 or '20.

Kicking is back & i think more teams will have to put 2 men back both inside and outside the 22.

Off topic to the thread, but the types of kicks England put in this year were exactly the kind of kicks we were crying out for. They could come thundering off the line cos they knew we were never going to grubber, or put in angled kicks to turn them; we really only exited with box kicks, which has become far less effective with the use of blockers etc.

With a centre playing on the wing in Joseph as well, there may have been some positional things we could have exploited.

I'm a big fan of Aki, but it's one thing we practically never see from him. All being fit, I think I'd favour Henshaw. We've seen him put in important kicks in the past. Also his offloading against Wales was really encouraging.

Scottmactom

ec18 wrote: »

It's terrible alright, just as well Leinster have been able to produce local players like Scott McFardy, Jame O'Lowe, Gibson NiPark and Isa NaCewa in recent years

Leinster have foreign players play for them, last I check it was allowed?

But they don't rely on them to be competitive as Munster have for the best part of a decade.

ionadnapokot

Scottmactom wrote: »

I don't believe any will start 5 KO games consecutively, but we shall have to wait and see.

Had a quick look at last season.
Interestingly Healy, Cronin, Furlong, Ryan, Conan, McGrath, Henshaw, Ringrose, Lowe & Larmour all started in the EC Final, Pro 14 SF & Final on consecutive weeks.

So i'd say it's full strength this week for Leinster. Larmour and all;)
All change next week. Incl 15. Keenan 23. RK!

And then see how the games go and bodies hold up.
Forwards will be in bits

Clegg

Munster should be overwhelming favourites for this game and the league title. They bought in two big money South African world cup winners and with an easy schedule of games due to no European commitments there's really no excuses for them. Would frankly be an embarrassment not to win tbh.

Scottmactom

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Had a quick look at last season.
Interestingly Healy, Cronin, Furlong, Ryan, Conan, McGrath, Henshaw, Ringrose, Lowe & Larmour all started in the EC Final, Pro 14 SF & Final on consecutive weeks.

So i'd say it's full strength this week for Leinster. Larmour and all;)
All change next week. Incl 15. Keenan 23. RK!

And then see how the games go and bodies hold up.

thats three games not 5.

Scottmactom

Clegg wrote: »

Munster should be overwhelming favourites for this game and the league title. They bought in two big money South African world cup winners and with an easy schedule of games due to no European commitments there's really no excuses for them. Would frankly be an embarrassment not to win tbh.

Leinster focus is all on the 5th star, I doubt they'll even field their "strongest XV" in the Pro 14 semi or final.

if Munster can't win it now with their expensive imports...

aloooof

Clegg wrote: »

Munster should be overwhelming favourites for this game and the league title. They bought in two big money South African world cup winners and with an easy schedule of games due to no European commitments there's really no excuses for them. Would frankly be an embarrassment not to win tbh.

That easy schedule includes, potentially, 2 games against Leinster. I didn't realised you rated yerselves so poorly!

ec18

Scottmactom wrote: »

Leinster have foreign players play for them, last I check it was allowed?

But they don't rely on them to be competitive as Munster have for the best part of a decade.

That's not really fair, leinster wouldn't have won what they did the last few seasons without Fardy and Isa when he was there.

ionadnapokot

aloooof wrote: »

I'm a big fan of Aki, but it's one thing we practically never see from him. All being fit, I think I'd favour Henshaw. We've seen him put in important kicks in the past. Also his offloading against Wales was really encouraging.

Never does little dinks in behind. Just range finders.
Something im watching out for with interest this week and for Ireland.
Henshaw should be used more for attacking kicks. It aint easy though.

Scottmactom

ec18 wrote: »

That's not really fair, leinster wouldn't have won what they did the last few seasons without Fardy and Isa when he was there.

Leinster have won semi finals and finals where both didn't start, so not sure about that.

And Munster wouldn't have made a semi final without their saffer imports and leinstermen.

shootermacg

I have a feeling Frawley will be looking for a new home in Munster soon. And we'll be delighted to have him.

Sir Guy who smiles

rayd3 wrote: »

This became clear when you included a player that isn't contracted to Munster any longer.

Gavin Cummisky- who's full time job is reporting on rugby- made the same mistake in the Irish Times today.

sydthebeat

molloyjh wrote: »

Who actually cares who gets selected this week? Really? This week and next are about 2 things and 2 things only. Getting the necessary players pitch time and trying to make sure those same players don't get injured. Anything else is a bonus. Moaning about selection in these games is beyond pointless.

100% agreed ... and thats why i think a 9 point spread from the bookies is way too wide.

leinster do not need to win this game.

That alone, in a rugby game, is a massive, massive advantage to their opponents. While munster are in a good position, a win for them is incredible advantageous.
They will know the edinburgh result beforehand so they will know they either have to keep up with them or will have a massive opportunity to overtaken them. I think its obvious to say that both Munster or edinburgh would prefer to meet ulster in a semi than leinster.

Munster also need a win over leinster to shake a bogeyman off, and i think this is their best opportunity. They will be as fully stacked as they can, while i imagine leinster will be more mix n match.

Id imagine this will be a hum dinger (as long as now red cards) and i think the team thats gets to grips with the refs interpretation of the breakdown is the one that will win. Munster will need to be careful that they traditional "latch n clear" style doesnt start to get pinged all over the park for going over the top.

Munsters biggest issue right now is the very obvious 10 problem. JJ is good enough to play the 80 here, but any knock at all to him and they are in real trouble. Scannell as a 'break glass' is ok, but thats really all he is. he has the kicking game to keep the opposition at bay if munster are wining when he steps in, but i dont think he has the nous to unlock defenses if they need to score with 10 remaining. i also assume Murray would be kicking if JJ had to go off.

im leaning towards munster by 3 at this stage

Clegg

aloooof wrote: »

That easy schedule includes, potentially, 2 games against Leinster. I didn't realised you rated yerselves so poorly!

When you take on the best teams in Europe you unfortunately have to go into the following games knackered. I'd normally consider a tired Leinster to be at a disadvantage against a well rested Munster.

ec18

shootermacg wrote: »

I have a feeling Frawley will be looking for a new home in Munster soon. And we'll be delighted to have him.

Is frawley worth the investment over the young 10's munster have? crowley/healy/Flannery?

Scottmactom

shootermacg wrote: »

I have a feeling Frawley will be looking for a new home in Munster soon. And we'll be delighted to have him.

It's sad that munster fans seasonal highlights are signings from leinster and south africa and not actually winning anything or developing their own talent.

aloooof

Clegg wrote: »

When you take on the best teams in Europe you unfortunately have to go into the following games knackered. I'd normally consider a tired Leinster to be at a disadvantage against a well rested Munster.

The following games? That's great, except all the remaining Pro14 games take place before you play a European game.

All is not lost tho, you can use that "knackered" excuse against Saracens.

ionadnapokot

Sir Guy who smiles wrote: »

Gavin Cummisky- who's full time job is reporting on rugby- made the same mistake in the Irish Times today.

Thats a very bad argument!!
He should be paid not to report on rugby. The SIndo might like him.

Scottmactom

aloooof wrote: »

The following games? That's great, except all the remaining Pro14 games take place before you play a European game.

All is not lost tho, you can use that "knackered" excuse against Saracens.

What will munsters excuse be when they fail to win anything again?

Just simply not good enough?

Clegg

Frawley has been around for a couple of years now so it's easy to forget that he's only 22. He's just one year older than Munster's young fly halfs. He has a lot more experience than any of them, but imo needs a lot of development and playing time. Wouldn't be worth his or Munster's time to move south. His best bet would be a switch of position to 12 or 15. He's not getting ahead of Ross Byrne in the short term and in the medium term Harry Byrne will usury everybody.

rayd3

shootermacg wrote: »

I have a feeling Frawley will be looking for a new home in Munster soon. And we'll be delighted to have him.

Oh be kind, don’t be winding up the poor creatúr, clearly nearly at breaking point already.

ionadnapokot

sydthebeat wrote: »

im leaning towards munster by 3 at this stage

But you would you revise your opinion on a Munster win if Leinster go full strength?

yerrahbah

Scottmactom wrote: »

What will munsters excuse be when they fail to win anything again?

Just simply not good enough?

Generally when a team loses a game it was because the other team was better

Clegg

I'm really interested in seeing how the forwards match up. In the last three or four years Leinster have generally handled Munsters pack quite easily. That's not to say Munster have been soft, but rather they've been predictable. We know Stander is the main threat so if you neutralise him Munster don't have a great platform, Chris Farrell doesn't get the good ball he needs to get over the gain line, it goes back to the other forwards who aren't great carriers and repeats.

The signings of Snyman and De Allende changes that as they add another powerful carrier to the pack and centre. So even if Munster fail to make metres up front, they still have a chance if it goes to the centres and vice versa.

ionadnapokot

molloyjh wrote: »

Who actually cares who gets selected this week? Really? This week and next are about 2 things and 2 things only. Getting the necessary players pitch time and trying to make sure those same players don't get injured. Anything else is a bonus. Moaning about selection in these games is beyond pointless.

What???
We have been without rugby for 5 months!!
& u are on here moaning about people discussing (again) about who gets selected!!!

Do yourself a favour and just join in and lets have some fun.

Rugby is Back. Be happy

Bridge93

yerrahbah wrote: »

Generally when a team loses a game it was because the other team was better

Incorrect I believe if you go search the match threads for Munsters 45 semi final defeats you’ll see it was the refs fault.

On the game not expecting much. Having watched the premiership last week there was a lot of rusty performances. Looking forward to seeing the two Saffas. Snyman in particular, haven’t seen him play a whole lot but the clips of him that go viral show him to be a total b*****d to play. The clip against Australia stands out.

Will go munster by a score. Think they’ll just have a little more on the line and that might tell amongst the mistakes of first game back

shootermacg

Clegg wrote: »

I'm really interested in seeing how the forwards match up. In the last three or four years Leinster have generally handled Munsters pack quite easily. That's not to say Munster have been soft, but rather they've been predictable. We know Stander is the main threat so if you neutralise him Munster don't have a great platform, Chris Farrell doesn't get the good ball he needs to get over the gain line, it goes back to the other forwards who aren't great carriers and repeats.

The signings of Snyman and De Allende changes that as they add another powerful carrier to the pack and centre. So even if Munster fail to make metres up front, they still have a chance if it goes to the centres and vice versa.

Scannell was always capable of making yards with ball in hand, so the main difference there I hope, would be DeAllende's distribution or offloading.

If Jack O'Donoghue gets a run, then that's another carrier in the back row.

My fear is that Munster try to play too much rugby and are let down by poor handling under pressure. Given the layoff and the lack of game time, I'd be looking to implement a more basic game-plan.

ionadnapokot

Clegg wrote: »

Frawley has been around for a couple of years now so it's easy to forget that he's only 22. He's just one year older than Munster's young fly halfs. He has a lot more experience than any of them, but imo needs a lot of development and playing time. Wouldn't be worth his or Munster's time to move south. His best bet would be a switch of position to 12 or 15. He's not getting ahead of Ross Byrne in the short term and in the medium term Harry Byrne will usury everybody.

Is Harry all that?
I havent seen enough to know. I do really like Frawley at 10.
If its been decided that Byrne 1 & 2 are the heirs apparent at 10
- Which is prob not brilliant for the brother that will be Byrne no.2 or the parents!

I can definitely see the logic in moving Frawley to 12 to give more play-making options.

Scottmactom

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Is Harry all that?
I havent seen enough to know. I do really like Frawley at 10.
If its been decided that Byrne 1 & 2 are the heirs apparent at 10
- Which is prob not brilliant for the brother that will be Byrne no.2 or the parents!

I can definitely see the logic in moving Frawley to 12 to give more play-making options.

In a word, Yes.

sydthebeat

ionadnapokot wrote: »

But you would you revise your opinion on a Munster win if Leinster go full strength?

I'd revise it to being a scratch spread, but I still think the desire to win will be different and the purpose of the game will also be viewed differently..... So ill stick with my prediction.

I put a few quid on munster +9 yesterday and also on a munster win this morning @3/1

Surely after all this time latham will have been able to introduce some innovation into that back line.... And I hope they don't just use DDA and CF as bash merchants.

shootermacg

I'm hoping this year is this guy's year, he's been brilliant so far this season:

Scottmactom

Shame he can't get a chance at his natural position.