Covid-19 likely to be man made

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428027#Comment_120428027

But no, that's simply not what was being claimed.

The suggestion that the virus may have escaped from a lab was not labeled as a conspiracy theory by "legacy media." (I assume by this you mean real media organisations as opposed to grifters on youtube/bitchute etc.)

What was labeled as conspiracy theories were the conspiracy theories being suggested at the time by folks like Trump and other "non-legacy media types" such as the notion that the virus was manufactured as a bioweapon.

Again, it's looking like we've someone pretending these claims simply didn't exist.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428061#Comment_120428061

That's just patiently untrue. The lab leak theory was indeed labeled as a conspiracy from the very start and this started with The Lancet, Nature, and Science journals. Closely followed by the Guardian and other reputable organisations. The BMJ did a good piece covering all this last year.

There were, of course, crackpots claiming it was weaponized but they were fringle cranks that were easily ignored.

https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1656

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428061#Comment_120428061

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-origin-evidence-of-lab-leak-that-may-have-caused-coronavirus-would-have-been-destroyed-by-china-ex-mi6-chief-says-12323900

Read very first paragraph.

Also still waiting for your own opinions on the origins and investigation. All you are doing is telling everyone else they are wrong. It's a bit odd

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428146#Comment_120428146

Yea, that article just repeats the same false claim we've seen in this thread:

Shortly after the pandemic began, Daszak effectively silenced debate over the possibility of a lab leak with a February 2020 statement in the Lancet.2 “We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that covid-19 does not have a natural origin,” said the letter, which listed Daszak as one of 27 coauthors. Daszak did not respond to repeated requests for comment from The BMJ.

This quote they cite does not refer to a lab leak. Nor does an open letter "silence debate."

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428163#Comment_120428163

Ok. Not sure what that first paragraph has to do with any point being made...

This article does not cite any examples of the idea of a lab leak being "dismissed as a conspiracy theory."

And again, no acknowledgement of the actual conspiracy theories that were being spread.

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428217#Comment_120428217

Even in the link description. " Initially widely dismissed as conspiracy theories"

You are trolling and won't give your own opinions.

Goodbye

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428019#Comment_120428019

Not particularly GOF, but bat coronavirus research was conducted at Bio-Safety Level 2 (Wuhan is a lab capable of BSL-4 research) with the reason being that bat coronavirus can't jump to humans directly and would need an intermediate species which wouldn't be present (or shouldn't be present) in a lab environment.

GOF research is an interesting area, it's looking at different virus, taking genome of other virus and applying it to the virus under study to see what effect it has (more/less transmissible or virulent) as well as identifying weakpoints such that vaccines could be developed. One of the arguments against GOF for SARS-COV2 is that SARS-COV2 has relatively unique properties that weren't found in already existing virus being researched (so it could have been that another very novel virus was being studied and provided that property and wasn't documented somewhere already and then that particular virus somehow jumped to humans without an intermediate or via an intermediate in a lab environment, again, without anyone documenting it, in an international lab with researchers of multiple nationalities). It's an unlikely probability of an unlikely probability hence Occam's razor would point to an intermediate most likely via a wet market as it would need a series of protocol breaches and coincidences to occur from a lab environment. It could also be that a researcher who was interacting with multiple species more often took it to the lab and it started from there, but again, low probability.

Unless it was all on purpose and thus a conspiracy.

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428931#Comment_120428931

Thanks , . The frustration I have when listening to different views is that it’s hard to find any objective discussions where there can be intelligent rebuttals.

I found the book of the people discussing the lab leak theory. Matt Ridley and Alina chan - they wrote a book called “viral”. Are they hacks? They were the ones saying GOF was happening at level 2 (or at least that’s what I thought I heard)

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429021#Comment_120429021

Sorry, I meant bat coronavirus are (or were, not sure if the guidelines are updated now) studied at BSL-2 due to their inability to jump to humans, I believe that also covered performing GOF research on them (I'm sure it can be looked up somewhere if you can get beyond the overload of articles about SARS-COV2 and labs). I don't believe we're at the level (at least via GOF, maybe other methods could) of adapting a bat virus into one that can infect humans (and if we were, that would be part of a conspiracy).

Of course, virus also do their own thing faster than us humans can modify them (Omicron being "ready" and released to end the pandemic at a certain time was another conspiracy that was being talked about, even though Omicron was very close to the original strain in seriousness but with greater infectivity rates).

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428931#Comment_120428931

On gof, it was initially funded by us.

https://theintercept.com/2021/09/09/covid-origins-gain-of-function-research/

nothing to say that work could not have been continued.

On serial passaging, it was suggested that humanised mice in a laboratory could have been an intermediate species.

Finally, towards the end of 2019, Wuhan removed access to their virology database. In the who joint study Peter (conflict of interest) Daszak decided that the team did not need to review the database.

The last piece is particularly strange, who knows what actually happened.

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120429021#Comment_120429021

Alina Chan is no hack. Ridley has at least one detractor.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428658#Comment_120428658

Yes. It claims that, but offers nothing to actually show that's the case.

Also, I assumed that Sky News, owned by one of the biggest richest media corporations would have counted as "legacy media". But I guess not.

I will also remind you that you've also not acknowledged any of the conspiracy theories that were claimed.

the-genius

Whether or not it was man man is a moot point, the USA is putting China in the crosshairs as enemy number one, so I guess we will see plenty of evidence provided by the USA that China made it, closely followed by sanctions and so on.

I predict the worse the banking crisis gets, the more China did it will be pushed by the media as a distraction and casus belli for a clash of East V West.

"China attacked first with a Bio-weapon, blaa, blaa, blaa", the sad part is many will believe it and be clamoring for war when they should be angry at the western politicians that have destroyed our economies by printing trillions.

BoxcarWilliam99

"The genetic material cited by the Tedros was uploaded recently to a global database but collected in 2020 at a Wuhan market where wildlife was sold.

The samples show DNA from raccoon dogs mingled with the virus, scientists say. They say that adds evidence to the hypothesis that Covid-19 came from animals, not a lab, but does not resolve the question of where it started. They say the virus also might have spread to raccoon dogs from humans.

The information was removed by Chinese officials from the database after foreign scientists asked the CDC about it, but it had been copied by a French expert and shared with researchers outside China"

Totally normal not hiding anything behaviour.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455873#Comment_120455873

In China totally normal behaviour is hiding anything that paints China / CCP in a bad light.

Remember they denied covid originated in China at first regardless of how it originated.

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455909#Comment_120455909

So is it Ok that china hid samples of a virus that spread around the world infecting billions and killed millions both directly and indirectly.

And if they are capable of such a crime against humanity you trust them when they say the virus did not start in one of their labs.

Samples taken from the same city where these labs are located!

How do you square that circle

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455935#Comment_120455935

Its not ok. If you want to lambast them for that fire away.

But were is it said the reason for thinking it didnt start in the lab is purely based on what China said?

It isnt as the raccoon dog story shows.

I am just pointing out that China covering something up doesnt have to mean they are covering up lab manipulation or lab leak. They would cover up a wet market origin too on general operating principles.

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455954#Comment_120455954

China is 9.597 million km² and there are wet markets throughout.

The coincidental chance that the market where this particular Coronavirus jumped from animal to infect humans happens to be in the same city that there are high level labs where viruses are studied is amazing.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456021#Comment_120456021

Amazing things happen all the time based on that definition of 'amazing'.

Roll enough dice, toss enough coins and you will get some amazing results.

It is circumstantial evidence.

There may be a link between the lab and wet market in some shape or form but we are still a million miles away from evidence of the deliberate release of an engineered virus which was a common CT in 2020.

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456048#Comment_120456048

They sure do. But most of the time the truth isn't that exciting or illogical.

China has been openly criticised for not sharing early COVID data and for being unhelpful.

Why would anyone believe their version of events about anything

I'm going with lab leak

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456071#Comment_120456071

To be clear though Chinas version of events is NOT that it originated in one of its wet markets afaik.

So thats a false dichotomy.

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456089#Comment_120456089

I thought you didn't believe anything that the Chinese government say as they don't want themselves to look bad?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456751#Comment_120456751

I don't 'trust' anything the Chinese government, that doesn't mean everything they say is false OR that every piece of data that comes out of China relating to Covid is the government version.

You are arguing against the wet market theory because you seem to think it is the Chinese government's version of events.

You have offered zero evidence to support this contention.

As far as I know, that is not the Chinese government position.

So your point is moot.

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457650#Comment_120457650

The alternative facts believed by some and also supporting the Chinese government is a real sign of the times.

The virus came from a lab I reckon. Your version is still unknown

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457658#Comment_120457658

No one here has "supported" the Chinese government. What a strange thing to claim.

Also not sure what alternative facts you are referring to, as the only ones on this thread are from conspiracy theorists and from people claiming those conspiracy theorists never claimed what they did.

BoxcarWilliam99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457669#Comment_120457669

I never said anyone "here" which I assume you mean is on this website.

What facts are you aware of to entitle calling other views "conspiracy theories"

Please share and we can dissect

BoxcarWilliam99

"Anthony Fauci recently told CNN’s Jim Acosta that if a virus collected in the wild and stored in a lab happened to leak from that lab “that still is a natural occurrence.” Fauci made a similar comment back in May 2020. Asked about the possibility that scientists had found a virus in a bat and brought it back to a lab, he told National Geographic that it would be a “circular argument” to blame the emergence on science because “it was in the wild to begin with.”

Fauci is only of a limited number of people who are likely to know the real story. Easter eggs from Fauci.

The FBI have long said a lab leak is the likely origin. Wouldn't they know better than Sinead O'Carroll of the journal or rte favourite and yes man Brendan O'Connor?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457734#Comment_120457734

Is that the extent of your understanding of those who don't think it was a lab leak?

Is Brendan O'Connor or Sinead O'Carroll doing direct research? Or are they reporting the work of experts? Bit of an important distinction your post misrepresents.

You could have found out the below with 5 seconds of googling.

Different US agencies have different opinions on the origins of the virus. The FBI and the CIA don't agree.

the intelligence community remains divided over COVID-19’s origin, noting that “China’s cooperation most likely would be needed to reach a conclusive assessment of the origins of COVID-19.”

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-02-27/u-s-agencies-divided-over-covid-19-lab-leak-origin-theory

BoxcarWilliam99

I choose to believe the investigative work of the FBI rather than some who use Google and plagiarism as their main sources.

Maybe we will never know but a lab leak is surely the most logical and likely.

Yet to see compelling evidence showing otherwise.

Can you offer any so we can open up the debate?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120457701#Comment_120457701

OK. Great no one here is supporting the Chinese government.

And looks like we're back to pretending there was no conspiracy theories being thrown around. Your post is a perfect illustration of my point about alternative facts.