Are there any credible conspiracy theories?

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304811#Comment_120304811

Well Dawww! Love the sarcasm.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120307989#Comment_120307989

I'm not so sure it is. What conspiracies do you believe are credible..

911?

Covid?

Vaccines?

The "mainstream media" is controlled?

Others?

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305355#Comment_120305355

"...The fact that the FBI is making these statements, and without an adequate explanation (or any explanation at all) of how this fits the conspiracy theory, shows that the theory is most likely not true...."

Or they can't prove it, or reveal how they now, or perhaps its a misinformation or propaganda.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308957#Comment_120308957

That list seems to the most common ones stuck on repeat by their supporters.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308980#Comment_120308980

Indeed. The type of thinking also seems stock

"Don't trust the media, unless it suits"

"If I can't understand or believe something that's evidence it isn't true"

"Everyone else blindly trusts the media/government/authorities"

"I'm just asking questions"

"The views of this one expert are stronger than the collective consensus of those 99 experts"

"A mistake, discrepancy, coincidence or anomaly is evidence of the conspiracy"

"Innuendo trumps fact"

"Denial of the event is evidence of the conspiracy"

And many more, it's a spectrum. Extreme at one end (lizard people) all the way to contrarian denial on the other (counterfactual)

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309273#Comment_120309273

Dont forget "i'm an independent thinker" as they post nothing but articles and YT vids from right wing grifters.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309273#Comment_120309273

Don't trust the media they say, pointing out the small number of things they got wrong.

Meanwhile, what's the truth batting average on the sites they quote?

If the mainstream media get one thing wrong, DON'T TRUST THEM.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309303#Comment_120309303

Also can't forget those who orbit and validate conspiracy theorists, not that they believe in any conspiracy theories themselves, they just want to stick it to science/skeptics/government/whatever

The new breed of fringe GOP lawmakers and Fox pundits spring to mind, catering for that whole sphere.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120309314#Comment_120309314

Well given that we're on page 67 of the 3rd or 4th thread asking for "real" conspiracy theories without any examples...

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120308957#Comment_120308957

There are different theories about all of the above. Could you be specific?

Igotadose

Satirical I suppose. Seems apt for this discussion.

geospatial

In the past two decades Pfizer and it's subsideries have been found guilty of 79 offenses, with fines and penalties totalling over $10 billion. Virtually all of these offenses were in the categories of safety violations ($5.6B), off label or unapproved marketing ($3.4B) and false claims ($1.2B).

Given this history, is it reasonable to ask questions regarding this company and it's commitment to consumer safety versus corporate profits? Is it a conspiracy theory to suggest Pfizer has a history of putting corporate profits before public safety?

In 2021 a global non profit group (Public Health and Medical Professionals for Transparency) of several hundred scientists and doctors who were just "asking questions" requested the safety data from Pfizer Covid vaccine trials from the FDA. The FDA responed that this would take 75 years. After being ignored and stonewalled they had to sue and won their case to gain access, fought all the way through multiple court cases by the FDA and Pfizer.

Is one a "conspiracy theorist" to be concerned about this lack of transparency? Surely if the Covid vaccines were "safe and effective" then both Pfizer and the FDA should be rushing out the safety data to comvince the public?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310457#Comment_120310457

Happy to discuss further, such as the half truths in your post on the appropriate thread.

https://www.snopes.com/news/2021/11/19/fda-2076-vaccine-data/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058180492/covid-vaccines-thread-banned-users-in-first-post#latest

geospatial

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310511#Comment_120310511

There are no "half truths" in my post, if you feel there are then point them out. Your snopes article is over a year old and out of date, for example the FDA updated the number of pages to 451,000 whcih would have take 75 years to release at 500 pages a month. The courts found against the FDA and an expedidted release was ordered. The judge found the FDA's arguments for release of 500 pages a month to be ridiculous, given the public interest in this matter.

This is the appropriate thread as my question is a basic one regarding "credible conspiracy theories". Given Pfizers track record on offenses relating to product safety, mislabelling and false claims, and given the resistance to release of safety data, is it a conspiracy theory to question whether they have been transparent and ethical on the issue of Covid vaccine safety.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310655#Comment_120310655

Does the same apply to Moderna and Novavax?

geospatial

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310681#Comment_120310681

Yes, should apply to all Pharma/Biotech/Medical Technology companies in terms of timely release of safety data for new products.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310857#Comment_120310857

I'm sure you have similar "evidence" for Moderna and Novavax then?

Or something similar from BioNTech prior to their partnership with Pfizer?

geospatial

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310895#Comment_120310895

Moderna, Novavax and BioNTech don't have a similar track record of offenses and fines, although it has to be said they are much smaller than Pfizer, and for balance other large companies like Merck, J&J and GSK have similar track records to Pfizer.

My question is whether it is reasonable to expect Pharma/BioTech/Medical Technology companies to release safety data in a timely fashion for new products, in particular from companies with a proven track record of safety violations and off label/false claims violations. Over 300 global scientists and medical professionals think it is, including dozens from leading universities.

I don't believe it is a conspiracy theory for the public to request or even demand this data, and think it's reasonable to focus this effort on Pfizer given their track record and their large share of the Covid vaccine market.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311084#Comment_120311084

So you're not questioning the safety of the Moderna or Novavax vaccines? Do you see the flaw in your argument yet?

Yes, Pfizer should be more transparent, but you're attempting to raise concern over vaccines by linking them to past transgressions from big pharma companies despite it being smaller startups who developed the most effective COVID vaccines using multiple different technologies (and billions upon billions safe injections later).

geospatial

I am questioning the safety data of all Covid vaccines, and specifically the resistance to timely release of safety data, which is why I believe all relevant companies should provide their safety data to the public in a timely manner (see my prior post, "should apply to all, etc"). In my opinion, and obviously thise who have requested the data, there should be full transparency when it comes to new medical products, especially when we are dealing with new technologies like mRNA. I fail to see how this level of transparency would not benefit the pharma companies involved.

I believe this is especially important for the leading manufacturer (by far), in particular as they have a track record of offenses involving safety and false claims. Why do you think the request from PHMPT for said safety data focussed on Pfizer? Because they are the largest supplier by far, at least in western countries.

Back to the original question, do you think it is a conspiracy theory to ask for safety data?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120310457#Comment_120310457

Again, no one is being labeled a conspiracy theorist for "being concerned" about a lack of transparency etc.

It's dishonest to pretend otherwise and to pretend that the claims being made about the vaccines were simply this.

realdanbreen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058102148/are-there-any-credible-conspiracy-theories

To answer your question, if you're of sound mind then no there are none. If you're attention seeking and are usually contrarian then there are loads of them.

geospatial

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311532#Comment_120311532

Are you speaking on behalf of "everyone" when you make tha claim that "no one" has been labelled a conspiracy theorist? The vaccine hesitant were absolutey labelled as conspiracy theorists in 2020 and 2921, when their concerns about vaccine safety were dismissed. Based on what turned out to be a totally erroneous concept that vaccination would stop the spread.

geospatial

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120311541#Comment_120311541

Would you say the US Department of Energy were not of sound mind when they recently said that a lab leak was the most likely origin of the Covid pandemic?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312024#Comment_120312024

Cool. Can you point to some examples where someone was merely expressing "concerns about transparency" and nothing else was labeled as a conspiracy theorist?

Can you point to examples of concerns about vaccines safety that were reasonable that where dismissed?

Cause in both cases, on this forum, I can't think of any examples.

Either the conspiracy theorist was actually claiming or hinting towards a vast global conspiracy behind the vaccines, and/or claiming that the vaccines were killing 10s of millions of people.

First, can we establish that you believe that the claims that the vaccines are killing millions of people are false conspiacy theories and should be dismissed as such?

If not, then I don't think you've much of a point.

weisses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305253#Comment_120305253

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120305355#Comment_120305355

Lads you are missing the point.

Since the start of the pandemic the "covid came from a lab" conspiracy was going around, ridiculed by the same skeptic cohort.

With the FBI and the dept of energy now stating it most likely came from a lab in Wuhan. You are left with two option imo .... The conspiracy peddled 3 years ago is a valid one, or US officials are parroting conspiracy theories.... pick one

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312024#Comment_120312024

Look at you not understanding how vaccines work or how viruses mutate.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312029#Comment_120312029

That's a theory not a conspiracy theory.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312205#Comment_120312205

The conspiracy was that it was deliberately set off from a lab, possibly from the us and planted in China. Or set off from China deliberately. Not it accidently leaked from a lab and mutated.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120312205#Comment_120312205

But this simply isn't the case. It's something invented by conspiracy theorists so that they can pretend to have been right all along.

What was being dismissed were the claims that the virus was man made for the purposes of population control or as part of a plot to push vaccines.

You, and your fellow conspiracy theorists are now pretending that this wasn't the claim.

People who were suggesting that a natural virus leaked from a lab were not ridiculed because that wasn't an unreasonable, ridiculous conspiracy theory.

So your "two options" are entirely a false dichotomy.

The conspiracy peddled by you guys for the last 3 years is not valid. The US officials are not parroting conspiracy theories.

And again, like before you fail to explain the contradiction.

If everyone who proposed such a thing was dismissed or censored or ridiculed or whatever, why isn't this happening with the FBI? Why weren't the FBI part of the conspiracy to censor/ridicule people?

No explanation for this is attempted, so it shows the conspiracy theory here is not credible.