How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Smacruairi

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I don't work form home.

I work in different places everyday.

I risk getting and bringing the virus home every day.

But I do it and get in with it because life has to go on and if I don't, guess what??

Teachers don't get full pay while not working.

But sure my family isn't as important as theirs.

I'll risk mine while they sit at home.

So what procedures are in place for those different places you work in every day?

Jinglejangle69

Smacruairi wrote: »

So what procedures are in place for those different places you work in every day?

I already said.

Fill out forms.

Wash hands.

Wear a mask.

I then get on with work.

Like most of the population.

Icyseanfitz

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I don't work form home.

I work in different places everyday.

I risk getting and bringing the virus home every day.

But I do it and get in with it because life has to go on and if I don't, guess what??

Teachers don't get full pay while not working.

But sure my family isn't as important as theirs.

I'll risk mine while they sit at home.

So what exactly do you do? So we can compare your level of interpersonal contact per hour to that of a teacher or sna

Smacruairi

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I already said.

Fill out forms.

Wash hands.

Wear a mask.

I then get on with work.

Like most of the population.

Yeah but what did the employer do. What changes did they make. They made your sign forms, that's good. What else. Because from pubs to petrol stations, every workplace has invested in their premises. What did your work place do, thanks. And what were the differences, if any you saw from workplace to workplace.

Also interesting to see you say you wear a mask. Up until Fri night the DES was suggesting teachers don't wear a mask, so interesting that already you take more precautions than our employer did up to Friday night.

alroley

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

So what exactly do you do? So we can compare your level of interpersonal contact per hour to that of a teacher or sna

Obviously they must be meeting 30 different people every 40 minutes in poorly ventilated tiny rooms.

NegativeCreep

Smacruairi wrote: »

Yeah but what did the employer do. What changes did they make. They made your sign forms, that's good. What else. Because from pubs to petrol stations, every workplace has invested in their premises. What did your work place do, thanks. And what were the differences, if any you saw from workplace to workplace.

Also interesting to see you say you wear a mask. Up until Fri night the DES was suggesting teachers don't wear a mask, so interesting that already you take more precautions than our employer did up to Friday night.

Pubs and petroleum stations are public facing businesses that have to comply with regulations strictly as they face more scrutiny. A lot of private companies (including my own) have thrown a few social distancing stickers on the ground and put up a few posters and called it a day as they face no outside scrutiny. The difference is we can’t say anything or we risk losing our jobs

Icyseanfitz

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Pubs and petroleum stations are public facing businesses that have to comply with regulations strictly as they face more scrutiny. A lot of private companies (including my own) have thrown a few social distancing stickers on the ground and put up a few posters and called it a day as they face no outside scrutiny. The difference is we can’t say anything or we risk losing our jobs

Probably much like the meat factories did so?

Smacruairi

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Pubs and petroleum stations are public facing businesses that have to comply with regulations strictly as they face more scrutiny. A lot of private companies (including my own) have thrown a few social distancing stickers on the ground and put up a few posters and called it a day as they face no outside scrutiny. The difference is we can’t say anything or we risk losing our jobs

Your employer would fire you for what? Suggesting things to your hr manager to increase the safety of the business? Pretty sure that's not a sackable offence? What would you want to see more of anyway?

Would you see schools as public facing locations that should have to face scrutiny? I know I would, which is why I found it bizarre that a lot of our regulations were actually "guidelines" with "where possible" written after. It didn't say however schools should open "where possible" it did say schools will open.. Full stop. Again I found that curious.

I agree with all of you, I want the schools open, the country needs them open. But do you not find it hypocritical and nonsensical that schools are being told "ignore everything that we said to other industries" and just do the best you can. We will of course, but I find the lack of concern a bit chilling. That's all. Especially with international warnings from Israel Australia and now Germany.

Leftwaffe

Different country but the same virus I suppose.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/97-000-kids-test-positive-for-covid-19-in-two-weeks-report-says/ar-BB17J8T7

NegativeCreep

Smacruairi wrote: »

Your employer would fire you for what? Suggesting things to your hr manager to increase the safety of the business? Pretty sure that's not a sackable offence? What would you want to see more of anyway?

Would you see schools as public facing locations that should have to face scrutiny? I know I would, which is why I found it bizarre that a lot of our regulations were actually "guidelines" with "where possible" written after. It didn't say however schools should open "where possible" it did say schools will open.. Full stop. Again I found that curious.

I agree with all of you, I want the schools open, the country needs them open. But do you not find it hypocritical and nonsensical that schools are being told "ignore everything that we said to other industries" and just do the best you can. We will of course, but I find the lack of concern a bit chilling. That's all. Especially with international warnings from Israel Australia and now Germany.

I actually have no skin in the game when it comes to schools. I don’t have kids and don’t know any teachers so I’m not as bothered as some people might be whether they open or not. I agree the government needs to do more when it comes to providing schools with clear guidance as to how to implement social distancing when schools reopen. The only thing I wanted to do with my post is highlight that even with clearer guidance, it’ll be out the window when work starts like in my workplace and in a lot of my friends workplaces that aren’t public facing. Whether schools are technically public facing or not I don’t know

Mrsmum

The overall message, on this thread, from those in the know, seems to be that schools will NOT be a safe environment for staff or pupils in a few weeks time. At least that's what I'm getting from it, eg the facebook piece. Which kinda begs the question, will most teachers, in that case, not send their own children to school ? And my second question is that if teachers genuinely feel it's not safe, what one precise & practical thing could parents do to help them out ?

Icyseanfitz

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

Different country but the same virus I suppose.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/97-000-kids-test-positive-for-covid-19-in-two-weeks-report-says/ar-BB17J8T7

And we have our minister of special education sharing an article telling us that students pose no threat with spreading covid-19, you couldn't make it up. You'd imagine the students she represents are particularly in danger with it FFS.

Smacruairi

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I actually have no skin in the game when it comes to schools. I don’t have kids and don’t know any teachers so I’m not as bothered as some people might be whether they open or not. I agree the government needs to do more when it comes to providing schools with clear guidance as to how to implement social distancing when schools reopen. The only thing I wanted to do with my post is highlight that even with clearer guidance, it’ll be out the window when work starts like in my workplace and in a lot of my friends workplaces that aren’t public facing. Whether schools are technically public facing or not I don’t know

That's grand. I agree, there are guidelines on paper, and what actually happens. We know that the distancing is a sham, and let it not be known when the s hits the fan that the country wasn't warned. Its just not in a teachers nature to say "told you so", we are trained to see the possible pitfalls because you can't mess with child welfare. I agree we are an overly cautious bunch, and I catch myself being negative cautious on occasion, but I'll attribute that to good training rather than moaning.

s1ippy

https://twitter.com/josephamadigan/status/1292386715244605440?s=20

Here is Josepha Madigan's tweet mentioned earlier in the thread. Can't quote because the site is acting up.

When people posted articles about Israel etc she just retweeted in some weird way where the link doesn't work.

https://twitter.com/josephamadigan/status/1292423193135915008?s=20

Clearly somebody with absolutely no fucking clue what they're doing. Schools are in safe hands clearly.

wirelessdude01

What I see happening is that we open. Parents that care will quietly find out from their children exactly what is happening at school and then the likes of Liveline will be taking calls from them once the first school case occurs. All will be quiet until then. Then primetime will do a piece and then the perverbial sh1t will start to hit.

wirelessdude01

What I see happening is that we open. Parents that care will quietly find out from their children exactly what is happening at school and then the likes of Liveline will be taking calls from them once the first school case occurs. All will be quiet until then. Then primetime will do a piece and then the perverbial sh1t will start to hit.

Deeec

Smacruairi wrote: »

Your employer would fire you for what? Suggesting things to your hr manager to increase the safety of the business? Pretty sure that's not a sackable offence? What would you want to see more of anyway?

Would you see schools as public facing locations that should have to face scrutiny? I know I would, which is why I found it bizarre that a lot of our regulations were actually "guidelines" with "where possible" written after. It didn't say however schools should open "where possible" it did say schools will open.. Full stop. Again I found that curious.

I agree with all of you, I want the schools open, the country needs them open. But do you not find it hypocritical and nonsensical that schools are being told "ignore everything that we said to other industries" and just do the best you can. We will of course, but I find the lack of concern a bit chilling. That's all. Especially with international warnings from Israel Australia and now Germany.

Sadly alot of small business's do not have HR departments. If you complain to management you can be effectively managed out( job made impossible so you just end up leaving) for being a problem employee. This is the root of the problem with the meat factories. I agree that many business's did just stick up a few signs and put hand sanitizer at the door. Ive seen several instances of shops where the hand sanitizer bottle has not been replaced when empty. To say every workplace has implemented procedures to keep their staff safe is incorrect.

However I believe safety in schools is of crucial importance and correct procedures need to be implemented. The DOE have let teachers, pupils and parents down badly on this. Their current plan of sending everybody back to school is going to cause outbreaks.

Smacruairi

Mrsmum wrote: »

The overall message, on this thread, from those in the know, seems to be that schools will NOT be a safe environment for staff or pupils in a few weeks time. At least that's what I'm getting from it, eg the facebook piece. Which kinda begs the question, will most teachers, in that case, not send their own children to school ? And my second question is that if teachers genuinely feel it's not safe, what one precise & practical thing could parents do to help them out ?

Parents can't contribute financially, that's not right. They also can't volunteer to supervise etc unless they're garda vetted but to be honest, that's just more hassle as you'd need someone to be free to do the same role for as long as it takes and again that's not right or reliable. They can't contribute physical space either so I'm with you, the only thing I think parents can do is realise the situation and demand more of the DES. Even a parent association saying "listen, bom we know you are trying your best, but we think this won't be enough, we appreciate your efforts but are going to mass canvas the local td on your behalf". That would be a great start. 6 schools is 6 bom letters etc, but it's easily 2000 parent letters.

Icyseanfitz

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What I see happening is that we open. Parents that care will quietly find out from their children exactly what is happening at school and then the likes of Liveline will be taking calls from them once the first school case occurs. All will be quiet until then. Then primetime will do a piece and then the perverbial sh1t will start to hit.

Yeah I am seeing something like this happening too, schools teachers and snas will try their best to get everything open as usual which is what the department are asking us to do, and then it will go bad.
with all the bad will pushed at schools, teachers and unions they can't be seen to be the bad guys at the moment, there's just a hope parents and media will start to recognize how crazy and dangerous this "plan" Is. Really smells of the same crap that happened with elder care at the start and the likes of the meat processing factories lately, go ahead as usual and hope for best.

beggars_bush

As far as I see, a lot of teachers are looking for childminders for their children. That way the kids won't be in creche mixing with even more children.
Makes sense

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What I see happening is that we open. Parents that care will quietly find out from their children exactly what is happening at school and then the likes of Liveline will be taking calls from them once the first school case occurs. All will be quiet until then. Then primetime will do a piece and then the perverbial sh1t will start to hit.

Parents that care?? What is with this martyr complex? Most parents don't know anything because schools are not communicating with them. You're mad for things to go wrong so that you can do a little dance and say "I told you so". Do you have any concept at all that this is about the safety of society as a whole and not just schools? Things going wrong could result in actual deaths.

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Yeah I am seeing something like this happening too, schools teachers and snas will try their best to get everything open as usual which is what the department are asking us to do, and then it will go bad.
with all the bad will pushed at schools, teachers and unions they can't be seen to be the bad guys at the moment, there's just a hope parents and media will start to recognize how crazy and dangerous this "plan" Is. Really smells of the same crap that happened with elder care at the start and the likes of the meat processing factories lately, go ahead as usual and hope for best.

Smacruairi wrote: »

the only thing I think parents can do is realise the situation and demand more of the DES. Even a parent association saying "listen, bom we know you are trying your best, but we think this won't be enough, we appreciate your efforts but are going to mass canvas the local td on your behalf". That would be a great start. 6 schools is 6 bom letters etc, but it's easily 2000 parent letters.

I just have no idea how you think any of this will happen without any communication to parents. How can they know that the school is struggling if the school says nothing?

grind gremlin

Lillyfae wrote: »

Parents that care?? What is with this martyr complex? Most parents don't know anything because schools are not communicating with them. You're mad for things to go wrong so that you can do a little dance and say "I told you so". Do you any concept at all that this is about the safety of society as a whole and not just schools? Things going wrong could result in actual deaths.





I just have no idea how you think any of this will happen without any communication to parents. How can they know if the school is struggling if the school says nothing?

Unless the average class size in your child’s school is 15 pupils, they will struggle to maintain distance between pupils.

Lillyfae

grind gremlin wrote: »

Unless the average class size in your child’s school is 15 pupils, they will struggle to maintain distance between pupils.

Do you think every parent of every child in the country knows the exact dimensions of the school, their annual budget and has read the DoE document cover to cover? TELL THEM!! It's very simple.

facehugger99

grind gremlin wrote: »

Norma Foley’s plan is essentially this. Wash your hands more.... leave space if you can (but if you can’t it’s ok). Carry on as before and it’ll all be grand.

Sounds reasonable TBH.

Time for the teachers to stop their usual moaning about everything and get on with it.

Like most of the population who've worked through this, it's getting tiresome listening to them coming up with ever more hysterical reasons as to why they can't get back to work.

Ye've had months off on full pay lads while others have gotten on with it. Time to suck it up and do the job ye've paid for.

wirelessdude01

facehugger99 wrote: »

Like most of the population who've worked through this, it's getting tiresome listening to them coming up with ever more hysterical reasons as to why they can't get back to work..

I'll bite.

List five of these 'hysterical' reasons you have read on here so.

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

Parents that care?? What is with this martyr complex? Most parents don't know anything because schools are not communicating with them. You're mad for things to go wrong so that you can do a little dance and say "I told you so". Do you any concept at all that this is about the safety of society as a whole and not just schools? Things going wrong could result in actual deaths.

No "I told you so" being contemplated here.

Your last line sums up what we know could happen and want to avoid.

All I'm doing it pointing out what I expect to happen. I've been very clear that the parents as a whole need to inform themselves and they are the ones who need to create the impedance for the plan to become better. No one listens to those who work in the education sector. You can see yourself the constant regurgitation of 'lazy', 'pay rise', 'danger money' and other such lazy cliches on here. The issues have been pointed out by both the teacher unions and principal groups but not in a brow beating, table thumping way as they inevitably get twisting into a different narrative.
In the meantime I'll pack my 28 back in and get on with my job of educating them this day 3 weeks. We all know SD will be just a myth any in schools but we'll just get on with it. Government don't care about anyone in education, money is all they care about which is kinda understandable given the circumstances. People read the headline figures of €375m, 1080 additional teachers at secondary level, 180/200 subs at primary and indeed they look powerful and good but they aren't. I always feel the education sector is like a duck on water. Looks nice and peaceful, a nice relaxed aura if you given, all the while there is frantic movement below the waterline to stay afloat.

The Unbearables

facehugger99 wrote: »

Sounds reasonable TBH.

Time for the teachers to stop their usual moaning about everything and get on with it.

Like most of the population who've worked through this, it's getting tiresome listening to them coming up with ever more hysterical reasons as to why they can't get back to work.

Ye've had months off on full pay lads while others have gotten on with it. Time to suck it up and do the job ye've paid for.

2/10

Standards gone to the dogs on this site.

Deeec

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

No "I told you so" being contemplated here.

Your last line sums up what we know could happen and want to avoid.

All I'm doing it pointing out what I expect to happen. I've been very clear that the parents as a whole need to inform themselves and they are the ones who need to create the impedance for the plan to become better. No one listens to those who work in the education sector. You can see yourself the constant regurgitation of 'lazy', 'pay rise', 'danger money' and other such lazy cliches on here. The issues have been pointed out by both the teacher unions and principal groups but not in a brow beating, table thumping way as they inevitably get twisting into a different narrative.
In the meantime I'll pack my 28 back in and get on with my job of educating them this day 3 weeks. We all know SD will be just a myth any in schools but we'll just get on with it. Government don't care about anyone in education, money is all they care about which is kinda understandable given the circumstances. People read the headline figures of €375m, 1080 additional teachers at secondary level, 180/200 subs at primary and indeed they look powerful and good but they aren't. I always feel the education sector is like a duck on water. Looks nice and peaceful, a nice relaxed aura if you given, all the while there is frantic movement below the waterline to stay afloat.

I agree with what you say that parents need to shout louder to achieve a change. From speaking to various parents recently Ive realised many have no idea of the ' pack em in strategy' of going back to school which the DOE is going with. They have not familiarised themselves with the plan at all and have no idea what they are in for. It is only when the kids go back to school that these parents will understand the problems and will then complain to the school.

I think schools though should be communicating with parents the issues that their own schools are going to face. I havent heard anything from my kids school since June. Parents need to be informed - If we dont know the issues we cant complain to the relevent authorities.

TomSweeney

dsfsdg

Lillyfae

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

All I'm doing it pointing out what I expect to happen. I've been very clear that the parents as a whole need to inform themselves and they are the ones who need to create the impedance for the plan to become better. No one listens to those who work in the education sector. You can see yourself the constant regurgitation of 'lazy', 'pay rise', 'danger money' and other such lazy cliches on here. The issues have been pointed out by both the teacher unions and principal groups but not in a brow beating, table thumping way as they inevitably get twisting into a different narrative.
In the meantime I'll pack my 28 back in and get on with my job of educating them this day 3 weeks. We all know SD will be just a myth any in schools but we'll just get on with it. Government don't care about anyone in education, money is all they care about which is kinda understandable given the circumstances. People read the headline figures of €375m, 1080 additional teachers at secondary level, 180/200 subs at primary and indeed they look powerful and good but they aren't. I always feel the education sector is like a duck on water. Looks nice and peaceful, a nice relaxed aura if you given, all the while there is frantic movement below the waterline to stay afloat.

Parents don't even know that there's anything to inform themselves about!! They see €375,000,000 as a generous stipend to fix the problems. They don't see that there not enough subs to cover absenteeism or reduced class sizes (although I'd like to know how many teachers on the register are not working or have ever worked tbh) and the half of the €75,000,000 pledged for works has in many cases already been given, or because of other issues can't be accessed. This is not being reported in the media. Great that it's being highlighted here but this is not a public enough domain. Direct questions on logistics from parents to schools are being ignored. I don't see any teachers or principals onto Joe Duffy about it now, when a difference could possibly be made on time.