8.5 hour work day

Dav010

s1ippy wrote: »

but if you're giving away hundreds of free hours, that devalues you; it's clear from your post that you recognise that. It's not about your colleagues and their time, it's about your time and it's being wasted.
t.

I thought from reading the op that he/she is being paid for the hours being worked and 2.5 hours relates to unpaid lunch break, where are you seeing that hundreds of working hours are being given away free?

I can see how it would be considered “pay for free hours” if the op was allowed to leave 2.5hours early on Fridays, and be paid for them.

Irishphotodesk

Strumms wrote: »

Self employed is a different scenario. You have a choice to either do the extra hours or not. You can choose to reward yourself with extra pay, or not.

Problem is here, the OP has no choice, is doing the extra but not being compensated for doing extra.

You seem to have a distorted view of the self employed person, anyone that is self employed will tell you that if you refuse work, you risk loosing the client, (similar position to the OP, if they leave at same time to their co-workers they risk upsetting their client and hence their boss will be annoyed with them and the client may look elsewhere).

Self employed people do not have a choice to do extra hours or not, and certainly don’t have the luxury of choosing to reward themselves with extra pay, in the 80’s/90’s and even the 00’s being self employed meant you could charge a client more than they would expect to pay for an employee, due to the fact the client didn’t have to pay sick pay, holiday pay etc etc, however these days, a self employed person is expected to do extra hours, be available regularly and for less pay than an employee, there is little or no respect given to self employed people.

My dad was self employed in construction industry and he often worked 7 days a week and in the 80’s/90’s he would receive calls at 7-8-9pm and have to go out and do a “quick job” then up and out at 6am for work, my brother is currently self employed and I’ve witnessed him receiving work calls while at family functions and he would have to leave, which is extremely frustrating for his family to have to facilitate - often someone else will have to bring them home to their house as he may have had to drive elsewhere, or they will travel to family events in two vehicles in case he gets a work call.

Being self employed is not a cash cow from my understanding, as for the OP, from what I read you are irritated by the fact co workers can leave early and get paid the same, if you complain it’s possible you will either earn a little more money or co workers will all be called to task on their times, if it’s the latter, you risk a lash back from co workers if it’s discovered who complained about their “cushy number” , as others have said, look elsewhere or try to figure out how to offload that particular client.

Irishphotodesk

s1ippy wrote: »

This is a very sad attitude to have.

You only have a limited amount of hours in your day OP. They're yours to do with as you please, but if you're giving away hundreds of free hours, that devalues you; it's clear from your post that you recognise that. It's not about your colleagues and their time, it's about your time and it's being wasted.

What complete and utter tosh, the hours in the day are not yours if you are an employee, they are your employers hours, they are not being wasted it is what the OP is being paid for.

If the OP is contracted to work 8.5hrs a day, outside of those hours the OP can do whatever, if colleagues are contracted to do 8.5hrs a day and they don’t thats not really the OPs problem unless they want to make an issue of it, which, if they do, could make for an unhealthy work atmosphere.

If the OPs co workers are permitted to leave without doing the necessary 8.5hrs per day then that is between those people and their managers/clients, the OP isn’t working extra for free, they are doing their agreed time, unfortunately for them others seem to be on easy street.

There are 168 hours in a week, the OP is working 42.5 of those, lets take approx 8hrs sleep a day (that’s 56hrs per week) ...OP you have 69.5hrs per week to yourself....go wild!!!

Batgurl

Your colleagues are getting what’s called “discretionary benefits” and while it sucks for you, it’s not discriminatory.

I’ve seen this play out in many ways; some teams get company vouched team lunches, others don’t. Some get Flexi time, others don’t. Usually it depends on the role, the manager and the goodwill the team has built up.

By all means, try to negotiate your own working conditions but IMO you need to leave what your colleagues get out of it.

Imagine if you raise it as an issue and the company instead decide to remove this benefit your colleagues enjoy and increase all their hours by 2.5 hours? You’d be a pariah!

Irishphotodesk

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

You seem to have a distorted view of the self employed person, anyone that is self employed will tell you that if you refuse work, you risk loosing the client, (similar position to the OP, if they leave at same time to their co-workers they risk upsetting their client and hence their boss will be annoyed with them and the client may look elsewhere).

Self employed people do not have a choice to do extra hours or not, and certainly don’t have the luxury of choosing to reward themselves with extra pay, in the 80’s/90’s and even the 00’s being self employed meant you could charge a client more than they would expect to pay for an employee, due to the fact the client didn’t have to pay sick pay, holiday pay etc etc, however these days, a self employed person is expected to do extra hours, be available regularly and for less pay than an employee, there is little or no respect given to self employed people.

My dad was self employed in construction industry and he often worked 7 days a week and in the 80’s/90’s he would receive calls at 7-8-9pm and have to go out and do a “quick job” then up and out at 6am for work, my brother is currently self employed and I’ve witnessed him receiving work calls while at family functions and he would have to leave, which is extremely frustrating for his family to have to facilitate - often someone else will have to bring them home to their house as he may have had to drive elsewhere, or they will travel to family events in two vehicles in case he gets a work call.

Being self employed is not a cash cow from my understanding, as for the OP, from what I read you are irritated by the fact co workers can leave early and get paid the same, if you complain it’s possible you will either earn a little more money or co workers will all be called to task on their times, if it’s the latter, you risk a lash back from co workers if it’s discovered who complained about their “cushy number” , as others have said, look elsewhere or try to figure out how to offload that particular client.

That's a very long whinge about careers that you have chosen.

hs5424

I think s1ippy said it all in one word. Be 'indespensable'.

I always tell my young lad that when I was looking for my first job all employers were looking at what qualifications I had. After I was employed for a few years or so the only thing they asked me during an interview was what I was doing in my last job. They didn't give 'jack ****' if I had any City & Guilds qualifications or not . Only interested in what value I had to bring to their business. In fact my second employer heard that things were not going great with my first employers business and I was approached to join their company. Correction,, I should have used the term ''I was head hunted''. Ha Ha.

Strumms

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The OP is not doing extra work. Their colleagues are simply getting away with doing less. No need to screw things up for them.

They are doing 42.5 and getting paid for 40. They are doing extra and not being paid for it. It’s very clear.

bee06

Strumms wrote: »

They are doing 42.5 and getting paid for 40. They are doing extra and not being paid for it. It’s very clear.

That 2.5 hours is their unpaid lunch break. Are they working through lunch? If so, that’s a separate issue to colleagues leaving early on a Friday.

Strumms

They are simply not be afforded the same opportunity to leave early

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

They are simply not be afforded the same opportunity to leave early

The op has confirmed that 2.5 hrs lunch is unpaid, and the op has no entitlement to be afforded that opportunity. The op is being paid for hrs worked.

Mrs OBumble

Strumms wrote: »

They are simply not be afforded the same opportunity to leave early

And they don't have to be.

StefanFal

antix80 wrote: »

Look this whole "being present" thing is nonsense. It sounds like you work a 37.5 hour week with an unpaid hour for lunch.
If some of your colleagues are able to skive off for 2 hours on a Friday and still get paid it's because their workload permits it & yours doesn't. So, try to move out of the role/portfolio of clients you deal with when the opportunity arises. Til then, keep the head down and remember how lucky you are to have a job.

How lucky you are to have a job? Are we living in the 80s now?

Strumms

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And they don't have to be.

Legally perhaps not. But if every employee decided they were just going to do the minimum and just respect what was legal, over what’s fair and reasonable you’d have the employer shouting, “ ohh you need to be flexible, ohh you need to think of the customers”

Dav010

Strumms wrote: »

Legally perhaps not. But if every employee decided they were just going to do the minimum and just respect what was legal, over what’s fair and reasonable you’d have the employer shouting, “ ohh you need to be flexible, ohh you need to think of the customers”

It is often posted that you should only work the hours you are paid to work, that is what the op is doing.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

Legally perhaps not. But if every employee decided they were just going to do the minimum and just respect what was legal, over what’s fair and reasonable you’d have the employer shouting, “ ohh you need to be flexible, ohh you need to think of the customers”

Which is why we have unions and as a result of unions, labour law.

I dunno about you but my boss would have me locked in a cupboard for 5 hours kip and then back to work if he could get away with it!

Dav010

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Which is why we have unions and as a result of unions, labour law.

I dunno about you but my boss would have me locked in a cupboard for 5 hours kip and then back to work if he could get away with it!

You should complain to the Garda Commissioner if you are being overworked. But that is not what is happening to the op, he/she is being fully paid and is not working any hours beyond what he/she is being contracted to do.

joeguevara

Just to put things into perspective and to show how looking at colleagues as a benchmark is flawed, I Will share My experience from last week.

I was brought in by a financially regulated firm to do a central bank mandated review on fitness and probity. Fitness and probity is a relatively recent regulatory requirement that requires classes of employees to be competent, capable and financially sound to carry out their role. Part of this also includes the minimum competency code which mandates certain qualifications or working towards said qualifications, if carrying out certain roles.

As part of the review I had to go through every applicable employees contract to ensure that it included certain requirements from the above. While doing that it became clear that every employee had different perks and conditions. For instance out of the 20 or so financial advisors, there was considerable differences in annual leave, starting times, flexi times as well as some who had negotiated blocks of free time for varying reasons. The point of this is to show that comparing your working conditions to a different employee may look on the face appropriate but depending on what they have in their contract be chalk and cheese. Talk about strikes, work to rule, being self employed is crazy. At the end of the day it appears that you have a contract and must work to that notwithstanding if jimmy and paul leave 2 hours earlier on a Friday.

If you want change bring an alternative or a plan to the employer. Show what you’re achieving, how you can do it in an allotted time and show by leaving early it has no negative impact. Don’t raise others as an employer will see that as someone lacking innovation and requiring every perk that another employee may deserve.

Dav010

Dav010 wrote: »

You should complain to the Garda Commissioner if you are being overworked. But that is not what is happening to the op, he/she is being fully paid and is not working any hours beyond what he/she is being contracted to do.

I said IF we didnt have unions and labour laws. That was my point and it was directed at another person

Weird thread. Just be available until 5.30 on a Friday. That's your job.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

They are doing 42.5 and getting paid for 40. They are doing extra and not being paid for it. It’s very clear.

Welcome to the real word where most salaried workers do more hours than in their contract, in fact my contract states that I should be expected to do extra hours if needed without payment during busy periods. My previous job had a similar contract as would the majorly of jobs in my sector of work.

On the other hand unlike the op I’d be out the door early like a shot on a quiet Friday afternoon.

Strumms

Valentin CoolS Puzzle wrote: »

Welcome to the real word where most salaried workers do more hours than in their contract, in fact my contract states that I should be expected to do extra hours if needed without payment during busy periods. My previous job had a similar contract as would the majorly of jobs in my sector of work.

On the other hand unlike the op I’d be out the door early like a shot on a quiet Friday afternoon.

If you are needed to do more than your contracted hours which I accept can happen there simply needs to be compensation. You NEVER work for nothing.

A job I previously had it was rare where a month would see you not doing anything from say 6-20 hours extra per month. Understaffing and the very nature of the business... however the extra you did was documented on the intranet site and you’d have the hours added to your annual leave if you didn’t want payment..

The hours remaining in my ‘leave bank’ would be say 48 hours ( 6 working days), if I did 16 hours extra you’d get a mail confirmation to advise you 24 (time and a half) more hours were credited to your bank ...

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

If you are needed to do more than your contracted hours which I accept can happen there simply needs to be compensation. You NEVER work for nothing.
...

It just does not happen though, in salaried roles (in tech in my case) there is no such thing as being paid for extra hours. It’s even in contracts that you will be expected to work extra hours at times and that you will not be paid extra. This is there obviously to remove any doubt that there will be no OT.

There is also no such thing as being docked for shorter hours though so you might work a load of extra hours one month but have a few early finishes another month of things are quiet. Overall you likely work more hours than your contract but that’s just the way it is, it wouldn’t even enter my head to expect overtime and it just won’t happen.

The hours are not tracked (even by myself) and no point adding it to annual leave either as I rarely get to take all my allocated annual leave never mind be able to take extra. If I get 15 or 16 days this year out of my 25 days that’s about the height of what I’ll be able to take as things are just too busy.

hs5424

If we all had a job in the ''civil service'' we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Think about it. You can never get 'fired' for not being able to do your job. You get ''redeployed'' or put in the back office out of sight. My friend retired from one of these jobs recently and told me the horror stories of people arriving into work at one minute before ''flexi time'', heading to the canteen for a cup which gets them to 11 am. After that, travel 20 miles to meet a client at their home which they passed on the way to work earlier. This they get travel expenses for this. I could go on about this all day, so the bottom line is tell your kids to get a job in the civil service if they can put up with all that goes with it.

hs5424

hs5424 wrote: »

If we all had a job in the ''civil service'' we wouldn't be having this conversation..

While not exactly the same I did work in the public service in a similar role to which I now work in industry and it was not much different at all. Often required extra unpaid hours (also highlighted in my contract), difficult to take all holidays etc.

hs5424

I have family members and friends also in the public service who often remark maybe Christmass week that they have 20 or so 'sick days' to take before the end of the year. Happy days. I don't think that I am healthier than the next person but have never taken a sick day in my life. That is in 38 years. That's self employed for you.

beauf

hs5424 wrote: »

I have family members and friends also in the public service who often remark maybe Christmass week that they have 20 or so 'sick days' to take before the end of the year. Happy days. I don't think that I am healthier than the next person but have never taken a sick day in my life. That is in 38 years. That's self employed for you.

I'm open to correction but..."...Uncertified sick leave for public service staff is seven days in any two-year period..." There's also a look back period over a year and over 4 years. Where the total leave is counted over the look back period. I think anything over two days together has to be certified leave, that is certified by a doctor.

If someone is taking 20 days uncertified every year it unlikely not to come to someone attention these days. Likewise repeated certified sick leave.

I know self employed people who have been injured broken hips, backs, etc, gone blind, or had serious illness and nearly died. They had to take time off work because they were actually sick.

If you've never needed to miss a day it's because you've never been that sick.

I wonder how many with minor symptoms came to work and spread Covid around their workplace.

beauf

hs5424 wrote: »

If we all had a job in the ''civil service'' we wouldn't be having this conversation.
.....

If you really thought it was that great you'd have got a job in it. There's jobs advertised all the time on public jobs website.

But you haven't which suggests you don't really think it's all that great.

beauf

Valentin CoolS Puzzle wrote: »

While not exactly the same I did work in the public service in a similar role to which I now work in industry and it was not much different at all. Often required extra unpaid hours (also highlighted in my contract), difficult to take all holidays etc.

Pretty common in public and private sectors. Usually floats under the radar to hide it from unions.

Op hasn't bothered to reply in 5 days. Unfollowed.

beauf

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Op hasn't bothered to reply in 5 days. Unfollowed.

It's only getting entertaining now.

https://youtu.be/1by0-nkKOTs